[HN Gopher] Under Attila's Gaze
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       Under Attila's Gaze
        
       Author : doat
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2024-04-05 19:08 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (quillette.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (quillette.com)
        
       | kibwen wrote:
       | Extremely interesting, I'm intrigued at the idea of preserving
       | fragmentary historical accounts by weaving them into a semi-
       | fictional narrative (which I suppose is something that ancient
       | historians themselves frequently did).
       | 
       |  _> Maximinus and I looked at each other, and I recall that I
       | shrugged my shoulders unhelpfully._
       | 
       | Is the author taking playful liberties with the metafictional
       | "translation" here, or is the gesture of shrugging your shoulders
       | actually attested in Roman times?
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | The first few episodes of "Vikings" owed a lot to Ahmad ibn
         | Fadlan, but I think the use of source material went steadily
         | downhill from there. "Roma Sub Rosa" correlated well with my
         | classes for the first few books, but I don't know how they've
         | held up in light of any more recent scholarship.
         | 
         | Chirologia/Chironomia are more oriented to hand gestures rather
         | than whole body, but they might have some clues. Roman orators
         | had a set of stock poses (the memes of the day?), so maybe
         | Cicero actually said something about shoulder shrugging in the
         | "delivery" part of _De Inventione_? It 's certainly a gesture
         | that would have read well in the back rows, had they used it.
         | 
         | EDIT: maybe also somewhere in Quintilian?
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutio_Oratoria
        
       | LAC-Tech wrote:
       | Interesting that it was still seen as obvious that the emperor
       | was a God, given that Theodisus II's grandfather had made
       | christianity the state religion.
        
         | olddustytrail wrote:
         | Most people wouldn't really have a concept of what a "state"
         | was.
        
           | iheartblocks wrote:
           | The concept of state sovereignty wouldn't come about until
           | (approximately) the Treaty of Westphalia, but Romans of this
           | time period would have certainly understood what the
           | government-prescribed religion is
        
         | vondur wrote:
         | At this point the Roman Empire was Christian. The Emperor was
         | no longer considered a god. They were now considered chosen by
         | God to lead the faithful on Earth.
        
           | LAC-Tech wrote:
           | _The Scythians raised a cup in toast to their King Attila,
           | and Maximinus proposed that the toast should also be to our
           | lord Theodosius. At this, Bigilas spoke out, saying that it
           | was not right that a god and a man should be compared in such
           | a way._
        
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