[HN Gopher] She slept with a violin on her pillow
___________________________________________________________________
She slept with a violin on her pillow
Author : tintinnabula
Score : 135 points
Date : 2024-04-05 03:37 UTC (19 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
| nf3 wrote:
| https://archive.ph/ymimZ
| sooheon wrote:
| It's interesting they talk more about visual embellishments (aged
| paper, vintage looking finish) than acoustic properties. What is
| it about Stradivari or other hand made instruments that make them
| so coveted, are desirable sonic characteristics measurable and
| traceable to manufacturing techniques? Or is it all just halo
| effect?
| ramenbytes wrote:
| Indeed. I've heard that certain acoustic guitar makers are
| starting do certain types of scientific analyses of the wood
| they buy for the guitar body to ascertain how it will behave, I
| wonder if there is any work being done in the violin community
| to quantify the behavior of their instruments. If anyone knows
| of an equivalent of Zollner's _Physics of the Electric Guitar_
| [0] for violins please share!
|
| [0] https://gitec-forum-eng.de/the-book/
| holri wrote:
| The guitar maker I know knocks on the raw soundboard and
| listens very close to the response. He can tell how it will
| sound in a guitar and how the guitar has to be built to
| support this particular soundboard and wanted characteristics
| of the guitar. (There are a lot of variables) He explained
| the difference in the knock response, and as musicians we
| could hear the difference too.
| bluGill wrote:
| It is called tap tuning and violin makers have been doing
| it for years. We don't know what Stradivarius, but nobody
| would be surprised by the claim that he was doing the same
| thing when making his violins.
|
| There is however a lot of debate in the luthier community
| on if it actually matters. Some claim it does and spend a
| lot of time on it, and have even setup fancy test fixtures
| to show patterns with different frequencies. However some
| claim it makes no difference and [I'm not sure what]. Both
| produce great instruments.
| lolinder wrote:
| I suspect the focus on the visuals has more to do with the
| journalist's perspective as a layperson than the focus of the
| luthiers.
|
| My wife is a professional cellist and cello teacher, and she
| absolutely can tell the difference between a handmade
| instrument and a factory-made one. I've watched her appraise
| dozens of student cellos, and even though I can't hear the
| difference myself, I know how good an instrument is from the
| look on her face a few seconds into playing it. She never looks
| at the label or pays attention to the appearance of the body,
| the sound is the _only_ thing that sets the good instruments
| apart for her.
|
| As I understand it, the difference between a crafted instrument
| and a factory one lies in the way the creator adapts (or
| doesn't) to the natural grain of the wood. A handmade
| instrument by an expert can't be beaten by a factory process
| because each piece of wood resonates differently and those
| differences must be accounted for to get a good sound.
| livueta wrote:
| I was only ever a mediocre cellist (Suzuki book 7) but my
| sister was legit good and won a scholarship-ish thing to
| borrow some hundreds-of-years-old cello worth six figures.
| When playing it, even I could immediately tell the difference
| between it and my mass-produced Yamaha.
| KRAKRISMOTT wrote:
| > _When playing it, even I could immediately tell the
| difference between it and my mass-produced Yamaha._
|
| I would imagine the CNC milled Yamahas to have much better
| quality control. It's the same in horology, "hand crafted"
| Swiss/German watches are valued over precision cut assembly
| line Seikos even though the Seiko complications are
| magnitudes more accurate and reliable than the Swiss ones.
| Ekaros wrote:
| I could see differences due to materials. Wood is not
| uniform product, so picking the right section for right
| part might do something minor. Metal is metal and we get
| very exact and uniform properties with modern
| manufacturing.
|
| Now maybe we could question why have we not come up with
| anything better for these wood instruments? Like some
| mixture of plastic?
| codr7 wrote:
| Carbon fiber seems to work reasonably well for guitars, I
| don't own one but I've tried them out and I think they're
| perfectly fine.
| varjag wrote:
| It's closer to a difference between mass retail and
| tailor fitted clothes. Big vendors have great quality
| control too, but it's not the robustness of the stitch or
| uniformity of color that's important here.
| sandspar wrote:
| You must be right, those thousands of professional violin
| players who've been playing since kindergarten are just
| deluding themselves.
| omnibrain wrote:
| I think there is some survivorship bias at work. An
| instrument that feels and plays great was just more
| likely to survive several hundred years.
| ben_w wrote:
| "Quality control" doesn't tell you what standard they
| have for acceptable, just that such a standard exists.
|
| I've heard that it is quite straightforward with modern
| tools to make new violins which pass a blind test against
| a Stradivarius -- I wouldn't know myself -- but that
| doesn't mean those with a target price of PS500 are
| actually made to this standard.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| > She never looks at the label or pays attention to the
| appearance of the body, the sound is the only thing that sets
| the good instruments apart for her.
|
| This kind of study/comparison really needs better blinding.
|
| While not the same thing, as an example, blind auditions for
| orchestras really changed the demographics of who got
| selected.
|
| > However, after adopting 'blind hiring' techniques, the TSO
| saw an increase of women being admitted from 25% to 46%.
|
| https://www.fairhire.org/quest/orchestrating-equity-a-
| brief-...
| vlabakje90 wrote:
| Apparently, people can tell the difference. They do seem to
| prefer newer violins over the old ones:
|
| https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1619443114
|
| >"We find that [violin soloists] generally prefer new
| violins over Stradivaris, consider them better-projecting,
| and are no better than players at telling new and old
| apart."
| sandspar wrote:
| Violin playing is an expressive performance art. Feeling
| transcendent makes experts play better.
|
| Do you think Richard Burton would have acted Hamlet
| better, the same, or worse, if he knew that Shakespeare
| himself were in the audience?
| ravin_gees wrote:
| Great way to put it
| jfengel wrote:
| Ugh. I hate it when the playwright comes to shows. They
| always have _opinions_.
|
| Their work is over. The words are set. Now let me do my
| job, figuring out how to say them and how to move. It's
| between me and the director. We're the ones who can see
| the set, know the other actors, feel what the audience is
| responding to.
|
| One thing I love about doing Shakespeare: he's very
| sparing with stage directions. He lets the words speak
| for themselves. Often, they suggest how I should sound,
| when I should be silent, how to move. But he rarely
| enforces an action on me. And even better... because he's
| dead, he's not going to come at us if we cut something we
| don't like, or rearrange.
|
| Modern playwrights love to tell me when to take a (beat).
| Guys... you wrote the words. I'll figure out how fast to
| say them. You did your job. Now stay home and let me do
| mine.
| thefaux wrote:
| This comment comes across as arrogant and dismissive of
| authors. Maybe this is a common attitude in theater but
| it doesn't come across as very collaborative from the
| outside.
| jfengel wrote:
| It was intended to come off as exaggerated for humor, but
| clearly that didn't convey. I'm sorry for that.
|
| That said... most of the time, playwrights aren't
| supposed to collaborate with actors. It's not a one-to-
| one interaction. The playwright writes, makes it
| available through a service like Samuel French, and has
| no connection with the actual performances.
|
| They may collaborate with actors and directors during the
| writing process. That's a different thing from the
| ordinary work of an actor.
|
| Actors collaborate a _lot_ -- with each other, with the
| director, with the lights and sound and tech and props.
| Adding one more voice -- even that of the playwright --
| often makes it worse, rather than better.
|
| In particular (switching to my director's hat rather than
| my actor's hat), it is important that I be the final word
| on the show. That sounds arrogant, and of course it is,
| but in a conventional theater process the director's job
| is to keep all of the other artists working together.
| That's what makes it look like a finished, cohesive work,
| rather than a collection of individual performances.
|
| A common faux pas in theatrical circles is for a writer
| to bypass the director and give directions to the actors.
| That is very much a no-no. Actors work _together_ , not
| as individuals, and a writer telling an actor something
| different from what the director tells them gives the
| work a disjointed feeling. If a writer has notes, they go
| to the director -- who has to be free to ignore them.
|
| Writers, of course, chafe at this. And it's worse when
| they don't have experience as actors or directors
| themselves, because they don't know how the process
| works.
| jdietrich wrote:
| _> As I understand it, the difference between a crafted
| instrument and a factory one lies in the way the creator
| adapts (or doesn't) to the natural grain of the wood. A
| handmade instrument by an expert can't be beaten by a factory
| process because each piece of wood resonates differently and
| those differences must be accounted for to get a good sound._
|
| Violin makers have, sadly, decided to pursue a complete dead
| end, because of the near-universal preoccupation with old
| instruments. Stradivarius violins have become the platonic
| ideal, therefore any new violin can never be better than a
| close copy. Improvement of the instrument is not merely
| discouraged, but definitionally impossible. In blind tests,
| players and listeners consistently either fail to distinguish
| between old and new instruments or prefer modern instruments,
| but these findings have had essentially no impact on
| attitudes.
|
| There is no Greg Smallman, Lucien Gelas or Ervin Somogyi of
| violins, nor will there be without significant cultural
| change.
| bradley13 wrote:
| _"...the near-universal preoccupation with old instruments
| "_
|
| This, and it's actually kind of sad. There have been
| double-blind tests that show that Stradivarius violins are
| acoustically nothing special: experts cannot pick them out
| by sound alone, or may actually prefer other violins. One
| example: https://www.science.org/content/article/million-
| dollar-strad...
|
| It's sort of like the crazy prices paid for paintings by
| "old masters". Even when the paintings are nothing special
| to look at. Even when the "old master" in question ran a
| factory, where his students did most of the painting and he
| just did some final touches and signed the things.
| ralfd wrote:
| It is more complicated. Modern violins can be louder, and
| audience generally think loud=better, but this may not
| what the player prefers or what is wanted in an
| orchestra. There is also the issue of playing an
| instrument only an hour vs playing an instrument for a
| tour or longer time.
|
| https://www.violinist.com/blog/laurie/20121/13039/
|
| This is a description by one contestant who participated
| in the 2010 test. She generally likes that new violins
| can sound really good, but she criticizes:
|
| > As for the old violins: one was a Guarneri del Gesu
| (circa 1740) and two were Antonio Stradivari (circa 1700
| and 1715) "These violins were loaned with the stipulation
| that they remain in the condition in which we received
| them -- precluding any tonal adjustments or even changing
| the strings." That means that, whatever happened to the
| old violins during their trip -- if they got jostled on
| the airplane, etc. -- there was no soundpost adjustment,
| no bridge adjustment, no check for open seams. If the
| strings were a little older, they were a little older.
| ... My concern is this: it sounds to me like the older
| instruments were not optimized -- by either selection or
| by luthier adjustments -- while the new moderns were.
|
| There are also differences between Stradivarius. In the
| formal test one old Stradivarius was universally disliked
| and in an informal test a modern violin beat an old
| strad. She wonders if that was the same model:
|
| > [...] During the same event when this study took place,
| another more informal "study" was done by those who did
| this one. While jurors were deliberating over the outcome
| of the Indianapolis violin competition, the audience that
| was gathered was asked to evaluate some moderns vs. old
| Italians. Indianapolis Symphony Concertmaster Zach De Pue
| played four pairs of violins, allowing the audience to
| decide which they liked best of each pair, based on
| playing excerpts from "Scheherazade" and Strauss's 'Don
| Juan.' Each pair included one old and one modern violin.
| The votes were very close each time, but ultimately the
| audience chose one modern violin and three Strads, from
| the years 1699, 1714 and 1715. Several more tests and
| votes narrowed the fiddles to the one the audience liked
| best: Jimmy Lin's 1715 Strad. (Was that non-preferred
| Strad from the study in the mix? I'm guessing it was, and
| it was the one not-preferred).
| Aidevah wrote:
| It should be mentioned that "old" violins that are still
| used today have all been substantially rebuilt to
| accommodate later repertories. There is a lot of
| difference between an early Baroque violin and a late
| 19th century violin including the fingerboard and the
| type of strings, and only a few museum strads that have
| not been played have retained their original
| configuration. One benefit of the early music movement
| that took off in the second half of the 20th century was
| realising that the "old" and "original" instruments
| weren't actually that old or original after all, and new
| baroque violins had to be made from scratch to attempt to
| reproduce what they would have sounded back like in the
| 17th and 18th centuries.
| koverstreet wrote:
| It's more than that - the bass bar on modern instruments
| is substantially heavier, because string tension with
| modern wire wound strings is higher than baroque era gut
| strings; the older instruments are more lightly built.
|
| The tone you get with gut strings is completely different
| than with modern strings - more complex, more resonances,
| but a modern style instrument will deaden that somewhat,
| you really want a period instrument to take advantage of
| gut strings.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y4lcQ7BTLw
|
| The neck is also different, but that affects reaching the
| high end of the fingerboard more than accoustics.
| derefr wrote:
| It may be that the old violins are preferred _as tools_
| because they somehow help the player achieve the same
| (optimal for their skill level?) sound, _more easily and
| consistently_.
|
| Think of a car that is less effortful to drive. From
| external appearances, the same driving is happening
| either way. But inside, the "worse" car has a lot of
| compensating on the part of the driver, while the
| "better" car does not.
| timbeccue wrote:
| It's a good hypothesis. Anecdotally though, I know a
| bunch of people who have experience playing both, and say
| that the old instruments can be difficult to play, though
| sound amazing when played well.
| scotty79 wrote:
| It might be purely due to how expensive they are.
|
| MRI studies proven that people really do draw more
| pleasure from tasting wine when they know it's expensive.
| cduzz wrote:
| I imagine some people would also derive more pleasure
| from knowing they're eating the last of a particular
| species, or walking on a floor made from the last of a
| particular irreplaceable forest, or racing a car that is
| the car that was raced in historical race of ages past,
| or even winning a rai stone in a game of backgammon. All
| exclusive experiences.
| analog31 wrote:
| >>> There have been double-blind tests that show that
| Stradivarius violins are acoustically nothing special:
| experts cannot pick them out by sound alone, or may
| actually prefer other violins.
|
| This is widely acknowledged among violinists. In fact
| there is a growing concern that the Strads are
| deteriorating. The vast majority of working musicians
| have never handled a Strad.
| derefr wrote:
| I've always wondered whether a violin is even a
| particularly good UX for making violin noises. The shape
| (and therefore most of the UX) is constrained in the
| analogue domain... but in the digital domain?
|
| I've been consistently surprised to see that unlike with
| e.g. MIDI "keyboard controllers" (which have evolved and
| diverged into many different forms for different use-cases,
| like sequencer button pads), there is no similar
| experimentation in what form an "electric violin" for
| greenfield players could tak. Nothing like, say, an
| instrument played with one finger of each hand along
| pressure-sensitive slider pads for 4D continuous input.
| analog31 wrote:
| Make one and find out. People are experimenting with all
| kinds of novel ideas. Nobody's restrained by tradition.
| atoav wrote:
| As a guitar and bass player one thing that is rarely talked
| about is that every individual instrument with its particular
| sweetspots creates a feedback cycle with the player.
|
| That means even if two instruments are capable of
| theoretically producing the same sounds, it can _feel_
| fundamentally different to get there as an instrumentalist,
| thus each instrument has a character that goes beyond just
| sound. This is an especially critical point if you are
| improvising.
|
| This is btw. also why many electrical guitarists insist on
| loudly cranked amps: the feedback that developes between
| speaker and guitar allows you to play the guitar differently
| as each note will sustain longer (or even grow in volume as
| you let go).
| koverstreet wrote:
| the sound of an electric guitar right on the edge of
| breakup
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I remember visiting a friend, while in high school (in the
| 1970s). He lived in a fairly exclusive area.
|
| He showed me his electric guitar. It was unbranded, pretty
| plain, and beat up. Sort of a Gibson Les Paul-looking thing,
| made of some solid light wood. Maybe maple.
|
| When he played it, it sounded _amazing_. I couldn 't believe
| the sound came from that raggedy-ass-looking axe.
|
| It was made by a family friend. A chap named Paul Reed Smith.
| inerte wrote:
| I've watched a few YouTube videos of people with their eyes
| covered listening to acoustic guitars, and they try to pick
| which one is more expensive. Some after a few picks can even
| tell the brand and model. It's pretty remarkable.
| radarsat1 wrote:
| There's actually lots of research on that topic, if you search
| for "Stradivarius blind listening" on Google Scholar you'll
| find some. Can't recommend a specific article unfortunately,
| but it's an interesting topic. My current understanding is that
| there is no perceptual difference that has been proven, and
| even later models are blindly judged to be better.
| UberFly wrote:
| They are like an 18th century Japanese katana. The masters were
| unparalleled at creating revered quality. They would be my
| first choice in collecting. Tho, if my life depended on it, I'd
| take a blade crafted with modern technology.
| porkbeer wrote:
| But you would be (half) wrong. Modern metalurgy trounces
| 10000 times folded, quenched in ancient fire. Modern shaping
| techiques are better and we can achieve a lighter, more
| flexible and tough blade. The issue is we dont. There is no
| reason to. Nobody is trusting their life to a katana today.
| so very few quality ones are made anymore. they are now more
| a symbol than a tool.
| bsder wrote:
| > What is it about Stradivari or other hand made instruments
| that make them so coveted, are desirable sonic characteristics
| measurable and traceable to manufacturing techniques? Or is it
| all just halo effect?
|
| It 90% halo effect.
|
| However, the wood, in particular, for the Stradivarii came from
| forests that had suffered droughts and was quite a bit denser
| than expected for that species.
|
| That having been said, wood _degrades_. It doesn 't matter if
| you put magic varnish on it or not. Wood ages nicely in
| instruments for about 10 years. Then it's good for about 50
| years. After 50 it starts noticably degrading, and the more
| heavily used the more it degrades.
|
| You will note that the Strads are _long_ past the point that
| the wood is "good". People who play violins can tell. However,
| nobody involved in a "blind" test is going to slag violins that
| might be Strads--that would be bad for their reputation.
|
| Ironically, those Strads aren't completely original, either.
| They have been repaired to various degrees over the years,
| given more modern bridges, etc. So, we get a Ship of Theseus
| argument.
|
| As for modern handmade violins, the top ones are easily as good
| or even better than Strads. Strads may have been "magic" in the
| 1700s and 1800s, but we have really good control of things,
| better measurement, better analysis, better materials, etc. in
| the modern era.
|
| Luthierie in the 2000s is still art, but it's got a _lot_ of
| science backing it up nowadays.
| ultimoo wrote:
| "Oh cool violin! Looks like it has a lot of history?"
|
| "Nah it was actually made in 2022 and that's a made up name on a
| fake label lol"
|
| Sorry if I come across as ignorant but scratching something with
| pasta and using yellowed book pages to give it an artificially
| aged look is dishonest, especially for a $18k object made by a
| skilled artisan. I'm sure it looks and plays great in its mint
| form.
| metadat wrote:
| This part also rubbed me the wrong way. Synthetic aging
| techniques kill the appeal of the craft of creating a truly
| genuine, exquisite instrument.
|
| It seems like what a cheap knock off manufacturer would do..
| imagine if McLaren did this, what, just scuffing up the door
| handle with an old key. Outlandish and backwards, haha.
|
| Or perhaps our repulsion reveals how unrefined and plebeish our
| opinions are on this topic, which is still kind of hilarious
| but also unfortunate, because it means a group of folks has
| effectively settled on preferring their McLaren with the
| intentional scratches.
| cannam wrote:
| > imagine if McLaren did this
|
| In some sense car manufacturers do do this - their designs
| are famous for being full of functionally empty retro cues
| that customers nonetheless go for.
| julian_t wrote:
| Synthetic aging... there's quite a lot of this going on in
| the guitar world. On the purely cosmetic level, you can find
| a lot of 'relic' electric guitars, made to look like they've
| been on the road since the 60s. Some acoustic makers are
| experimenting with torrefaction and other techniques to age
| the top wood, and opinions are divided on whether this makes
| any difference.
|
| But I'm just a pleb here... if an instrument feels good to
| play and sounds good, then that'll do!
| guappa wrote:
| It makes a difference in price for sure :)
| jdietrich wrote:
| Cosmetic ageing processes are broadly regarded as
| distasteful amongst collectors and connoisseurs, but
| there's clearly a market for it.
|
| Torrefaction (or rather an optimised heat treatment
| process) can undoubtedly produce clear acoustic benefits.
| Suitable thermal treatment can significantly increase the
| stiffness and reduce the damping coefficient of wood,
| resulting in a more acoustically efficient material.
| afc wrote:
| Not McLaren, but here's an example of a car manufacturer
| synthetically aging their new cars:
| https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a29838406/2021-ford-
| mu...
|
| "Oops, the modern engines aren't as loud, let's use the
| speakers to fake it!" I think it's equivalent.
|
| Funnily, I'm somehow more bothered by the violin pasta
| scratches than by the digitally generated engine/exhaust
| noise. I'm not sure why.
| vintermann wrote:
| I know at least one good violin maker who agrees.
|
| It's common to do various things to make instruments look older
| than they are, but it's controversial.
| johnloeber wrote:
| I don't think there's anything wrong in making a traditional
| label that conforms to all other labels (i.e. looks aged).
|
| That's a design choice, and design choices that appeal to
| tradition are _everywhere_ , even in software.
| wouldbecouldbe wrote:
| Yeah sounded weird to me as well, but I'm guessing in the
| violin market it's the expected look and she will have a hard
| time selling to consumers if she doesn't.
| anorphirith wrote:
| I came here to post the same, a self aware artisan wouldn't
| spend extra time making it look older than it is. that makes me
| question every other design choice as well, was it thought
| through at all or was it just simply repeating what was
| learned...
| anshorei wrote:
| What a violin is supposed to look like and how that affects
| price is interesting. As a violinist with a particular
| interest in old music I think it's sad how little diversity
| there is in violins. There's really only a couple of models
| that all luthiers build and those models all look similar to
| the untrained eye. In medieval, renaissance and baroque
| periods there was a lot more variability.
|
| Aside from some experimental luthiers everyone builds the
| same style of violin because there's an assumption that if
| you're deviating from that form (e.g. cornerless violins such
| as the Chanot model, or baroque style piecrust violins) you
| must be sacrificing sound quality. And if you decorate your
| violin, it must be that it didn't sound good enough and you
| need to make it look good instead to sell it (strangely, as
| you mentioned, artificially making the violin look older is
| exempt... probably because it makes them fit in with the
| uniformity of classical violin)
|
| The best sounding violins I've had were all a bit ...
| crooked. The simple reason is that being slightly asymmetric
| really hurts the value of a violin, even if the sound is
| fine. As a hobby musician I don't really care and am not
| ashamed of having a violin that looks a little "off" when
| close up. If you're not playing professionally this, or
| buying from upcoming luthiers who still have to make a name
| for themselves are good ways to find good-value buys.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| Violin world must have never had a les paul or leo fender.
| Guitars would be the same way if it weren't for these two.
| verisimi wrote:
| Yep, it's dishonest. But it looks good... It meets visual
| expectations... And I'm sure it helps the product off the
| shelf. Write ups in the NYT are quite useful too!
|
| And I thought it was all about sound. She probably has a tiktok
| account too!
| grujicd wrote:
| This kind of artificial aging is an official thing in electric
| guitar market - typically called road worn. And it's done by
| Fender or Gibson, not just some obscure brands. There are also
| signature lines which are more ot less exact copies of guitars
| played by famuous musicians. For instance you can buy Malcolm
| Young Gretsch with empty pickup sockets, just like how Malcolm
| modified his own guitar. So some people love to have an
| instrument that looks like it's not new, even if it is.
| darkwater wrote:
| Well, brand new jeans trousers with holes have been a thing for
| years as well, now.
| thfuran wrote:
| As has pre-damaged furniture.
| cannam wrote:
| (Amateur cellist)
|
| Instinctively I find this absurd too. I always thought it was
| funny that, at least at the level of student instruments, the
| more you spend, the more beaten-up your new instrument looks.
| Basic ones have an even spray varnish (which I generally quite
| like). My slightly better* Chinese factory instrument is
| antiqued to the extent of having a more worn-looking patch
| where the hand rests when playing in higher positions, as if to
| suggest decades of performance as a soloist. It's nonsense.
|
| But plainly people do like this and makers do make it. See e.g.
| the instruments at https://www.myluthier.co/category/violins (I
| can't afford to shop there, I just picked it because they have
| pretty preview images) which stand as quite good evidence
| against any suggestion that "reputable luthiers would never".
| Yes at some point you just have to make a living, but there's
| enough skill put into it to suggest there might be something
| more artistically interesting going on as well. The results are
| certainly quite personal.
|
| There are practical arguments for antiquing. It's kind of handy
| when you're playing in an ensemble: from a distance my cello
| looks basically the same as the others around me in the
| orchestra even though some of them are a century older and
| genuinely quite harshly used. And you never have the pain of
| getting the first obvious scratch or chip in a pristine
| instrument.
|
| Curiously this doesn't seem to be a very new practice either -
| I think even 150 years ago, new instruments were being turned
| out designed to look like much older ones.
|
| * Sounds and plays better, not just cost a bit more. I didn't
| choose it for the antiquing!
| wilsonnb3 wrote:
| > scratching something with pasta and using yellowed book pages
| to give it an artificially aged look is dishonest
|
| Unless she is telling people it is old when it is actually new,
| it isn't dishonest. Its not different than any other cosmetic
| choice.
|
| My bass guitar isn't actually made out of red wood, it is just
| covered in red paint because I like the way red stuff looks.
| tkgally wrote:
| Do any string instrument players here have opinions about the
| differences between wooden and carbon fiber violins, violas,
| cellos, etc.? I've watched some YouTube videos comparing them,
| and I can't hear the difference. I imagine the sound and response
| might seem very different, though, to the performer.
| jdietrich wrote:
| They're OK enough as a travel instrument, but they don't sound
| particularly great because no manufacturer has taken composite
| technologies seriously. They're using archaic manufacturing
| methods (wet layup and vacuum bag) that produces a composite
| with too much resin - more plastic than carbon. They cannot
| properly control the acoustic properties of the material,
| because they can't control the material period.
|
| If you see the a high-gloss finish and a characteristic woven
| pattern, you're looking at a showpiece rather than a serious
| instrument. That's not what a high-performance composite looks
| like - you should expect to see the satin finish and linear
| "grain" of unidirectional pre-preg. I'm yet to see that on any
| musical instrument.
| 83 wrote:
| What does satin/gloss finish have to do with anything? That's
| a choice made at the finishing stage as to what clear coat to
| put on it for uv protection and scratch resistance. And while
| uni might be appropriate for parts of the violin, you still
| need to orient plys in multiple axis for flexural strength,
| so you might as well do some of that on the outer cosmetic
| layer to make the product more appealing to consumers.
| jdietrich wrote:
| Viscoelastic polymers are poison for stringed instruments,
| because they have very high damping coefficients. They turn
| the precious vibrational energy from the strings into
| useless heat. Only cheap mass-produced instruments are
| finished in polyurethane; quality instruments of
| traditional wood construction use a shellac-based finish
| (sometimes nitrocellulose lacquer on guitars), which have
| lower damping and can be applied more thinly in practice.
| In the context of high-quality instruments, the difference
| is not subtle.
|
| Wood instruments need a finish to protect them against
| moisture, but that isn't an issue for CFRP. Any finish -
| especially the kind of thick finish you need to get a high
| gloss over woven reinforcement - makes the instrument worse
| for no benefit other than cosmetics. If you would choose a
| shiny instrument over one that sounds better, you're buying
| a showpiece rather than a serious musical instrument.
|
| Epoxy is a necessary evil in CFRP, but we want the absolute
| highest possible fiber volume ratio. Unidirectional or
| spread-tow reinforcement will always allow for a higher
| fiber ratio than woven material.
| kashunstva wrote:
| I was surprised to find no mention whatsoever about the tonal
| qualities of her instruments. The antiquing process may appeal to
| her target buyer; but most serious contemporary luthiers don't
| engage in the practice. The instruments she's making are not
| cheap; but they are by no means expensive in the world of bowed
| instruments. But an article about violin-making that doesn't once
| touch on the tonal outcome is strange indeed.
| analog31 wrote:
| Indeed, I'm a double bassist, and belong to a family of string
| players. I don't want an antiqued instrument. I'll age it
| myself. Most of the deliberately antiqued instruments I've
| handled were student models, and I wonder if it makes it easier
| to hide minor defects in workmanship. In those cases, we didn't
| outright reject an instrument for being antiqued, since there
| are only so many things you can be particular about before the
| supply of acceptable instruments dries up. We were much more
| concerned with sound. When my kids moved up to professional
| grade instruments, like you say, no more antiquing.
| grujicd wrote:
| We can argue whether artificial aging an instrument is a bad
| thing or not.
|
| But I hope we can all agree that such kind of passion and drive
| in a young person is a very nice thing to see. Especially now
| when many kids are only interested in quick tik tok style of
| entertainment and rarely show an urge to do something hard on
| their own. Or I'm just looking with middle aged eyes and it was
| always a rare thing for a kid to be really passionate about
| something.
| stavros wrote:
| Yeah, it always was. The "kids these days, with their" part of
| the complaint has always been the same, it's only the next
| words that have changed through the ages.
|
| Remembering my childhood peer group, I definitely don't
| remember many kids exhibiting this kind of passion for
| anything.
| gwervc wrote:
| > Or I'm just looking with middle aged eyes and it was always a
| rare thing for a kid to be really passionate about something.
|
| I'd say that most of the time passion is killed in the egg by
| parents without them noticing by the lack of support (buying a
| book, materials), interest or attention ("I don't have time to
| look at what you made") or just plain shunning. Outside big
| cities, pre-internet time, lack of available knowledge or place
| to get it can also be a big problem.
|
| School also play a role, even if just by robbing kids of most
| of their free time. The corporate-like schedule which is
| incompatible with reading a book from cover to cover in one go
| is why I didn't read much fiction at the time.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| > The corporate-like schedule which is incompatible with
| reading a book from cover to cover in one go is why I didn't
| read much fiction at the time
|
| I read books like crazy when I was younger, I loved to read
|
| School did everything it possibly could to make sure I
| stopped enjoying it though, and sure enough by the time my
| Grade 12 literature class was done with me it had finally
| bludgeoned out the last enjoyment of reading I had
|
| It took me a long time to realize that a lot of book studies,
| film studies, really any media studies, is just snobbery and
| not worth a damn. It's better to just enjoy what you enjoy
| wodenokoto wrote:
| You sound just like 90's parents. "Why do kids today have such
| short attention span?"
| bondarchuk wrote:
| In the 90s kids had short attention spans, nowadays even
| shorter. I don't see the problem with stating these things.
| laborcontract wrote:
| I have a short attention span, so I find the subject's endeavor
| both admirable and wholly unrelatable. I can relate to two
| things.
|
| My parents weren't particularly wealthy. I remember as a kid when
| getting new shoes, I'd sleep with them next to me on the pillow.
| I feel fortunate to live in slightly greater abundance.
|
| Second thing is about goal realization. About 12 years ago a
| photo of the Japanese coastline popped up in Reddit. I found it
| so striking that I made it a goal to visit, and I also set it as
| the wallpaper for my work computer. I've set goals for myself in
| the past, some of them a lot harder than this. However, the
| feeling of logging into the computer of a soul-deadening job,
| seeing the wallpaper every day, and then, after several years,
| _finally_ visiting the place is unreal. It 's the closest I've
| had to an out of body experience.
| kome wrote:
| Which photo was it?
| laborcontract wrote:
| Tsunoshima bridge. This is the image:
| https://imgur.com/a/tsj9kk6
|
| I'm not sure why it struck me so much, but I always suspected
| a large part had to do with playing so many japanese video
| games growing up that it felt like a place already well worn
| in my imagination. I think it particularly triggered a memory
| of when my father used to take me to CompUSA as a kid, and
| I'd be there taking turns playing the Dreamcast demo of Sonic
| the Hedgehog (timestamped link to the level:
| https://youtu.be/XwtNXo1aQgs?t=432).
|
| Driving on the coast and bridge with my now wife..
| unforgettable.
|
| [EDIT] found the post: https://old.reddit.com/r/pics/comments
| /qcy5m/where_is_this_o... I'm very pleased that my 12 years
| ago time estimation was right on the money!
| Shinchy wrote:
| That's a great picture, it reminds me a lot of Final
| Fantasy XV.
| eleveriven wrote:
| Looks like the way to heaven
| Vt71fcAqt7 wrote:
| >I'm not sure why it struck me so much
|
| Perhaps a case of Thing, Japan.[0]
|
| [0] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thing-japan
| adhi01 wrote:
| That certainly often seems to be the case with me
| IncreasePosts wrote:
| It's a lovely picture regardless of if you know where it
| is or not. Lush, green vegetation. Clear, tropical
| looking waters over white sand.
| nashashmi wrote:
| Makes for a good vertical screen background.
| RaVeN_ShP wrote:
| I would love to see that picture :)
| laborcontract wrote:
| Posted it to a sibling!
| RaVeN_ShP wrote:
| Great Picture! Thanks for sharing!
| hzay wrote:
| I so relate to that out of body experience. My story is
| different though -- 10 years ago, I was driving along the SF-LA
| scenic route (I forget its name). I'd rarely driven in US at
| that time and was brand new to the country. Suddenly I felt
| like I knew the route. I'd seen these underpasses before,
| surely? It was so surreal. I could even predict some road
| feature that was going to show up next.
|
| Turns out the game Roadrash that I played as a kid had that
| route :)
| cdelsolar wrote:
| PCH?
| bluejekyll wrote:
| Sounds like Route 1, which goes by a few different names. You
| may be lucky. They are continuing to have a difficult time
| keeping it open as various sections keep collapsing into the
| sea, at some point I imagine they'll close sections of it
| permanently.
|
| https://apnews.com/article/big-sur-california-highway-
| collap...
| nashashmi wrote:
| Write a book about surviving a soul-deadening job. We people on
| HN live on dream farms where roses are red and violets are
| blue, and the next wealth point is just an IPO in queue.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Which coastline is that?
| ericye16 wrote:
| The first time I visited Yosemite National Park after years of
| seeing it as the default macos wallpaper had a similar
| experience for me.
| MailleQuiMaille wrote:
| Manifestation always works whether you know it or not :)
| eleveriven wrote:
| It's so satisfying to watch. Creating a musical instrument is
| akin to creating a work of art.
| phkahler wrote:
| >> Also present: dentist's tools to scratch the instrument for a
| more antique look.
|
| >> at the suggestion of a mentor, she created an artist's name,
| Anna Arietti, to better fit in with Italian culture.
|
| >> To make her label, An _stamps_ her ink signature onto a small
| piece of paper -- a browned page from a secondhand book, giving
| the impression of age.
|
| I'm sure there is a lot of great craftsmanship in one of these,
| but some aspects are not entirely authentic.
| pkteison wrote:
| Related, this is one of my favorite videos ever:
|
| Building a classical guitar from scratch (with a pro luthier):
| https://youtu.be/qmDAIlEGO_Q?si=uLyMOGBMXEGMkIFt
|
| Everything about the process is fascinating.
| strikelaserclaw wrote:
| pretty interesting how she found such an esoteric craft as her
| passion at such a young age. I love reading stories about people
| who are obsessed with their craft.
| 48864w6ui wrote:
| Passion is wonderful; I'd just like to point out a 2nd or 3rd
| order effect: often a startup starts up and everybody is
| passionate, but with growth some new hires are less passionate
| than others. The situation to avoid is having an ipo where very
| passionate people discover more mercenary people had much higher
| option allocations.
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