[HN Gopher] Roku files patent to inject ads via HDMI
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       Roku files patent to inject ads via HDMI
        
       Author : yololol
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2024-04-04 21:31 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (patents.google.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (patents.google.com)
        
       | RockRobotRock wrote:
       | McDonald's!
        
         | callalex wrote:
         | For those unaware, this is a reference to the real, actual
         | patent Sony was granted that requires the user to stand up,
         | T-Pose, and shout "MacDonalds!" in order to skip an ad.
         | 
         | https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sony-patent-mcdonalds/
        
       | pawelduda wrote:
       | This is so stupid it's funny
        
       | kderbyma wrote:
       | really pushing the envelope with this one....Wow....what a
       | contribution to society....who would've think this was
       | meaningful.....greed.....just greed....
        
       | type0 wrote:
       | HDMI is a farce
       | 
       | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no...
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | Thankfully we are not completely stuck with HDMI
         | 
         | USB-C connectors using the DisplayPort protocol is the best of
         | all worlds
         | 
         | https://www.displayport.org/displayport-over-usb-c/
        
           | SenpaiSilver wrote:
           | I still hate that turning off one of my monitors moves the
           | windows to the other still on monitor...
        
             | rylittle wrote:
             | anyone know if theres a way to fix this?
        
               | samatman wrote:
               | I'd start with the question: where do you want them to
               | go? Windowing systems generally don't have a 'limbo'
               | where windows can live without being displayable, and
               | that probably isn't what you want, either.
               | 
               | Do you want them all to auto-minimize? You can probably
               | get that. But it starts with answering the question.
        
               | ryukafalz wrote:
               | I could imagine a tiling window manager like sway having
               | a "temporarily gone" pseudo-workspace that holds windows
               | that were on another monitor until you plug it back in or
               | pull them to another workspace. Or to remember that
               | workspaces 1, 3, and 5 were on another monitor recently,
               | and to put them back there when you plug back in.
        
               | Kim_Bruning wrote:
               | If it's the same problem I have, I feel the pain!
               | 
               | On a laptop, reconfiguring to use monitors as and when
               | you connect/disconnect them can be great.
               | 
               | However, I'm also often on a PC with a fixed multi-
               | monitor setup. Any situation where one monitor is briefly
               | out is going to be transient. But some windowing systems
               | decide to throw out all your settings at the drop of a
               | hat.
               | 
               | The correct behavior in this case is to do nothing, the
               | fact that a monitor seems to have gone a way should just
               | be ignored. (Because it didn't, really. Maybe I'm just
               | messing with it for a sec, or it's a different brand and
               | turns on/off a few seconds after the others)
               | 
               | [IIRC on KDE you can prevent reconfiguration by turning
               | Kscreen OFF ]
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | Dual monitor KVM with EDID emulation. Cheap with HDMI.
               | Still pricey for the few DP switches out there that
               | support it.
        
               | johnea wrote:
               | I also really dislike this moving of windows when a
               | display is powered off.
               | 
               | That's why I run fluxbox window manager on a non-ubuntu
               | linux distibution.
               | 
               | Leave windoze, leave ubuntu, regain control of your
               | computer...
        
             | ForHackernews wrote:
             | ...that seems like a really good and intuitive feature.
             | What would expect it to do instead? Close the window? Keep
             | it on some invisible virtual desktop? (how large is the
             | mysterious off-screen area in which windows can be lost?)
        
               | oarsinsync wrote:
               | My laptop has a 15" 1080p panel. It's attached to 2x 32"
               | 4K panels. When I'm done for the day, I turn the screens
               | off.
               | 
               | When I come back the next day, all my windows are on the
               | laptop onboard display, and if I'm lucky, resized in a
               | way that makes them movable. If I'm unlucky, I need to
               | close the application, re-open it, and hope it's back in
               | a helpful way.
               | 
               | The 2x 4K panels show me my wallpaper every morning. They
               | don't show me any windows that were on them.
               | 
               | "intuitive" is in the eye of the beholder.
        
               | jayd16 wrote:
               | For what its worth Windows should handle this well enough
               | now. Window locations are restored when the monitor setup
               | returns to a previous layout.
        
               | oarsinsync wrote:
               | My up-to-date patched install of Windows 10 does not,
               | unfortunately
        
               | rad_gruchalski wrote:
               | My macos does :D
        
               | quickslowdown wrote:
               | For anyone else who gets stuck with a window where the
               | draggable part is off-screen on Windows, if you click the
               | icon in the taskbar to "focus" the window, hold Win+Shift
               | and hit the up arrow, it'll maximize the window so you
               | can see the controls. If it's on a different monitor, or
               | on a "ghost" monitor your computer thinks is plugged in
               | but isn't actually, use Win+Shift and left/right arrow
               | keys until you can see the window :)
               | 
               | Still a very stupid problem to have to solve.
        
             | ok_dad wrote:
             | Funny, on my gaming windows computer I turn off my OLED
             | monitor BEFORE I turn off the computer to let it do its
             | special processing reliably. I've had the opposite issue to
             | yours, several windows will remain on the turned off
             | monitor! I have that one on HDMI and the second monitor on
             | a DP connection.
        
           | MenhirMike wrote:
           | How many 65" Displays with Display Port are there? Also,
           | don't nVidia GPUs only support the nearly 10 year old Display
           | Port 1.4, which doesn't support variable refresh rates for
           | high resolution/high framerate displays? Sure, buying an AMD
           | GPU is a solution, if you don't mind worse drivers and higher
           | power usage for less performance.
           | 
           | (To be clear: I want HDMI to die, DisplayPort to win, and AMD
           | to get their crap together. But at the end of the day, we
           | need support on both the GPU and the Monitor/TV side, and
           | that's where it's lacking.)
        
             | a_t48 wrote:
             | It looks like the 50 series will support it
        
               | MenhirMike wrote:
               | Hallelujah!
        
             | thomastjeffery wrote:
             | The ludicrous part is how many TVs display 4K@120, but can
             | only input 2K@120 or 4K@60, just because they have
             | exclusively HDMI 2.0 ports instead of including a
             | DisplayPort 1.4 port.
        
           | chgs wrote:
           | I'd rather just use SDI
        
       | kstrauser wrote:
       | And it'll probably be hard to opt out of it:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39643421
        
       | optimalsolver wrote:
       | "Say 'McDonalds' to end commercial":
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/bsx72f/say_...
        
       | exe34 wrote:
       | I'll cut it out of the cable with a pair of scissors.
        
       | chris_wot wrote:
       | If it means that nobody else can implement this without costing a
       | huge amount of money in licensing, this is a net positive.
        
         | omoikane wrote:
         | I had a similar thought, I would assume the patent is meant to
         | be used defensively to discourage something downstream of Roku
         | from injecting ads.
         | 
         | If Roku wants to display ads, they can already do so if the
         | content originated from their system. If Roku is displaying
         | content originated from an external system, that external
         | system can display their own ads to defeat the detection of
         | pause events. (DirecTV already does this).
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Roku data breach: Over 15k accounts affected_
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39674041
        
       | fleshmonad wrote:
       | You will rent "your" DRM protected PC, and we will inject Ads
       | into your brain
        
         | chgs wrote:
         | Ads should only be on TV and radio, and in magazines, and
         | movies, and at ball games, and on buses, and milk cartons, and
         | T-shirts, and bananas, and written on the sky... But not in
         | dreams.
        
       | dreamcompiler wrote:
       | > When the media device pauses the media content, the display
       | device can determine that a pause event has occurred and insert
       | an ad shown on the display device.
       | 
       | Hilarious. I love how all the streaming companies are hijacking
       | the pause control now. Why do you think I hit pause? Pick one or
       | more of the following:
       | 
       | 1. I need to go to the bathroom.
       | 
       | 2. I want to inspect the current frame more carefully.
       | 
       | 3. I want to see an ad for psoriasis medication.
       | 
       | Hint: One of the above answers is wrong. Think about it and get
       | back to me. I'll wait. (I did hit pause after all.)
        
         | whyenot wrote:
         | It depends. How accurate is Roku's guess that you may have
         | psoriasis? Now repeat this exercise but replace Roku with Meta
         | or Google.
        
           | JoshTriplett wrote:
           | It does not, in any way, _depend_.
        
           | Jochim wrote:
           | How accurate they are directly correlates with how much pain
           | I'd wish on whoever is responsible.
        
           | neon5077 wrote:
           | If your only options are "bad" and "even worse", that does
           | not mean that one option is good. They are both, in fact,
           | _bad_.
        
         | dangoodmanUT wrote:
         | HN comedy goes underappreciated
        
         | dreamcompiler wrote:
         | And furthermore, Purushottam NARAYANA and Andre Goddard Rosa,
         | you have put your names on this thing publicly. If I were you I
         | would think very carefully about my life choices. Are you
         | making the world a better place? Are you earning a living doing
         | something you would be proud to tell your grandchildren about?
        
           | digging wrote:
           | > Are you earning a living doing something you would be proud
           | to tell your grandchildren about?
           | 
           | No, they're probably earning a fortune they'll be proud to
           | pass down to their grandchildren.
        
             | ChainOfFools wrote:
             | > No, they're probably earning a fortune they'll be proud
             | to pass down to their grandchildren.
             | 
             | Still a drop in the bucket compared to the billionaires
             | being minted semimonthly through combination lottery games,
             | though at least in both cases not a cent of the fortunes
             | being passed to grandchildren came from me.
             | 
             | actually you could argue that the people who did absolutely
             | nothing for society in return for the assurance that none
             | of their family will ever have to work at all, for the next
             | three or four generations if not longer, have nonetheless
             | contributed a net positive to society when compared with
             | the apex parasites who actively work to degrade the quality
             | of life of everyone else for their own gain.
        
               | rad_gruchalski wrote:
               | > Still a drop in the bucket compared to the billionaires
               | being minted semimonthly through combination lottery
               | games,
               | 
               | You only get so many shots in your life worth running
               | with.
        
         | chgs wrote:
         | Nobody want to see adverts, yet it's one of the largest
         | industries on the planet.
         | 
         | Anyone who doesn't do everything in their power to avoid
         | adverts is part of the problem.
        
           | nineteen999 wrote:
           | > Anyone who doesn't do everything in their power to avoid
           | adverts is part of the problem.
           | 
           | Says everybody until they are wanting to advertise their own
           | product.
        
             | tuhriel wrote:
             | I'm still not sure the excessive 15x same advert method
             | increases your chances.
        
       | websap wrote:
       | Do anything to pump that stock price. Don't innovate, don't
       | create meaningful user experiences that actually improve lives of
       | consumer.
        
         | fr4nkr wrote:
         | This is very innovative, though. It takes a lot of research and
         | creativity to fuck with people as thoroughly as the modern
         | corporate world does.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | You're not thinking innovative enough. Don't just show ads,
         | replace the ads the running app is displaying and then charge
         | the app maker to run ads through your platform.
        
       | nzeid wrote:
       | If I'm getting this right, any ads you'd see on a Roku would be
       | hosted by the apps themselves e.g. Youtube and such. So Roku
       | wants a piece of the ad action and this is the only way to do it
       | without the burden of providing any actual content.
        
       | lenerdenator wrote:
       | "Transfer more value! Transfer more value! Transfer more value!",
       | the shareholders chanted, as the virgin shrieked on her descent
       | into the throat of an active volcano.
       | 
       | "It is done!", responded the CEO, eyes hidden behind the
       | ceremonial quarterly meeting headdress, shielding them from the
       | immense heat of the lava.
        
         | SlightlyLeftPad wrote:
         | I, for one, would read the rest of this story.
        
           | lenerdenator wrote:
           | For the rest of the tale, I recommend you follow the stock
           | symbol "ORCL" on the NYSE.
           | 
           | Rather curious that Mr. Ellison owns an island in a volcanic
           | archipelago, isn't it?
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | Speaking of which, the one question I've always wanted to
             | ask bcantrill is if he meant to say "Don't make the mistake
             | of anthropomorphizing Oracle" when he said "Don't make the
             | mistake of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison."
             | 
             | On purpose or not it was a great sentence, but if it were
             | premeditated, that only makes it better.
        
       | stein1946 wrote:
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendency_of_the_rate_of_prof...
        
       | oddevan wrote:
       | Reads like this is for Roku TVs. They've gotten wise to the fact
       | that I'm using my Apple TV more (because I can't update the Roku
       | software any higher), but they still want to sell me ads.
       | 
       | I try to stay above stuff... but fuck this.
        
       | deathanatos wrote:
       | Roku also recently disabled devices unless you "consented" to
       | forced arb. (E.g., article from about then:
       | https://techcrunch.com/2024/03/05/roku-disables-tvs-and-stre... )
       | 
       | (IANAL.) I'd like to remind Big Co's that contracts aren't valid
       | if there isn't consideration. And continued use of my own TV
       | isn't consideration. (And this is backed by legal precedent,
       | too.)
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | Why are forced ads still a thing?
       | 
       | When given choice, people escape them - via netflix or adblock.
       | The same people spend their free time watching youtube reviews,
       | chatting on gear forums, or recommending each other deals on
       | social media; it looks like people genuinely want to learn about
       | good and fairly priced products.
       | 
       | I sincerely hope we'll find a better way of reaching an audience
       | than forced ads.
        
         | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
         | Ironically the fully skippable commercials on cable TV with a
         | DVR are the best deal we can get anymore, anything in the
         | streaming world can take control of the video stream away from
         | you.
        
           | chgs wrote:
           | Piratebay still works right?
           | 
           | I just subscribe to paramount plus again to watch discovery.
           | Seems perfectly reasonable, they give me a program I want
           | (with no product placement from what I can gather - unlike
           | the JJ Abram's films with their "Budweiser classic". I don't
           | think a self sealing stem boot counts), and I give them PS8 a
           | month. Everyone is happy.
           | 
           | However you try to double dip and I don't give you a penny.
        
             | thih9 wrote:
             | Piratebay may not work as smoothly.
             | 
             | Content doesn't appear effortlessly on all your devices.
             | Some subtitle languages may be missing. Less mainstream
             | content may be of low quality, slow to download or missing
             | too. Plus, you have to plan ahead or wait for the download
             | to finish. At this point I would double check the streaming
             | plan price (as long as there is an ad free tier).
        
         | someotherperson wrote:
         | Don't worry, there will be a small monthly subscription of
         | $9.99 to disable them! Or if you buy the new Roku Plus Extreme
         | you can opt-out of personalized ads! What more could you want?
        
           | thayne wrote:
           | And then they will decide that no-ads should actually be
           | slightly less ads instead. And if you are still using that
           | Rolu Plus Extreme after two years, you don't deserve to be
           | able to opt out anymore.
        
           | thih9 wrote:
           | In my grandparent comment I mentioned "fairly priced
           | products" - if the price (including ad removal) is fair and
           | the product is good, I have no problems with paying.
        
       | ARandomerDude wrote:
       | Reason #27,621,938 to stop watching TV. The media creators hate
       | you, the device manufacturers hate you, the streaming companies
       | hate you. It's amazing what hoops people are willing to jump
       | through in order to poison their own minds.
        
       | stackskipton wrote:
       | This seems like patent troll. HDMI-CEC would let you see the
       | pause request if they are using remote not tied to the device.
       | However, to display the ad, it would require you to hijack the
       | input and would be extremely disruptive to the user. Unless they
       | were already using Roku and Roku needs to know Pause command to
       | be helpful to the user. So besides "Show ads" how is this any
       | different from "We handle pause properly!" which is basic
       | function.
        
       | brevitea wrote:
       | And just like that, I recall I have a DVD collection and access
       | to alternative means of streaming.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | Has someone patented a Pi-hole-like HDMI passthrough that blocks
       | out and mutes all ads using SponsorBlock or "AI" mechanisms?
        
       | dv_dt wrote:
       | Has someone created an enshittification standard scale (ESS)
       | where we can just rate what stage a company is at? It could
       | actually be useful as I would guess that there is probably a good
       | correlation to poor long term financial performance at high ESS.
        
       | Devasta wrote:
       | That reminds me, I need to buy more verification cans...
        
       | robswc wrote:
       | Ah, this is what Tesla meant when he said "You May Live to See
       | Man-Made Horrors Beyond Your Comprehension."
        
       | crtasm wrote:
       | (2022)
        
       | forrestthewoods wrote:
       | I refuse to connect my TV to WiFi. I used to use a Roku for all
       | my streaming needs. But I switched to an AppleTV because the Roku
       | apps started to suck and they got into selling data.
       | 
       | It's a dang shame that AppleTV is the only streaming box that
       | doesn't track what I watch to sell. But that seems to be the
       | world we live in. Aside from being expensive it's a great product
       | and I definitely recommend it.
        
         | kobalsky wrote:
         | > I refuse to connect my TV to WiFi
         | 
         | we are one deal away from having TVs that autoconnect to
         | xfinity hotspots / amazon sidewalk, to upload telemetry and
         | download ads.
         | 
         | I can see people having to open their TVs to cut the wifi
         | chipset's power/antenna in the future to avoid ads.
         | 
         | If this crap isn't stopped by law it will just keep escalating.
        
       | zug_zug wrote:
       | As somebody who was a roku fan for a while (because I thought
       | their UI/os was so much less clunky/noisy) I really can't
       | recommend this brand.
       | 
       | I wonder if there's a way to flash your TV with some OS that
       | doesn't invade your privacy.
        
       | grounder wrote:
       | Hopefully I can still find a "dumb tv" when the time comes to
       | replace mine.
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-04 23:01 UTC)