[HN Gopher] Apple explores home robotics as potential 'next big ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple explores home robotics as potential 'next big thing'
        
       Author : apike
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2024-04-04 20:46 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
        
       | apike wrote:
       | https://archive.is/Yi6p3
        
       | zachbee wrote:
       | "Smart home" has really fallen flat across the board, from smart
       | speakers to the Roomba. It would be great if Apple changed that,
       | but I'm not optimistic. I just don't think people really want
       | smart home devices all that much.
        
         | doubled112 wrote:
         | I think the issue is that smart home devices didn't do anything
         | I couldn't already do, but a physical switch is faster than
         | arguing with the computer.
         | 
         | Hey Google, can you turn off the baby bedroom light?
         | 
         | I'm sorry, I don't know that device.
        
           | ado__dev wrote:
           | I used to have a dozen or so Google Home devices for all sort
           | of automation, but have mostly given up on it. I feel like
           | Google is going to kill these any day now, the Google
           | Assistant on them has been getting dumber and dumber. Where
           | in the past, it would do its best to provide an answer, now
           | for 99% of queries it just says "idk how to help with that."
           | 
           | So the only thing these devices are used for these days in my
           | household are setting alarms and turning lights on/off. In
           | the next home, probably won't even bother.
        
             | KoolKat23 wrote:
             | Probably A/B testing but mine answers most questions these
             | days, I swear even those it couldn't answer in the past. It
             | hasn't given me the I don't know answer in a long while.
             | Still mostly used for lights, morning alarms, shop opening
             | hours, asking if my dog can eat my snack and the weather.
             | 
             | I know others here saying they can do it themselves but
             | nothing beats asking google to turn off the lights in the
             | house when I've forgotten and I'm cosy in bed already.
        
             | rubatuga wrote:
             | I've totally disabled my entire smart home ecosystem.
             | Philips hue thankfully has a hubless fallback (with the
             | Zigbee remote). I just hate the unreliable nature of
             | wireless devices, and having to manage an account for every
             | accessory (Philips hue account, wemo account, iCloud
             | account, etc.). Matter/thread which was supposed to be a
             | smart home revolution turned out to be a crapshoot
             | requiring proprietary Thread border routers.
        
           | crabbone wrote:
           | There's also profiteering and security issues. Thermostat
           | that wants to connect to "cloud" and needs to know my street
           | address, my name etc.? -- Not happening. Companies selling
           | "smart" devices instantly overcomplicated relatively simple
           | appliances making them beyond DIY repair level, and, on top
           | of it, wanted to sell service of supporting these overly
           | complicated devices. It's just very hard to see the benefit,
           | when all that eg. the thermostat does is turning the boiler
           | on and off, saving a few seconds to someone who'd otherwise
           | have to do it manually.
           | 
           | There also aren't that many areas where automation could
           | possibly accomplish much. I think, the main directions are:
           | 
           | * Optimize energy usage (the same thermostat thing). It
           | doesn't really amount to much. It could be useful in
           | industrial setting, but for households it just doesn't save
           | that much money, even if it works well.
           | 
           | * Cleaning. Making roombas deal with furniture or large
           | objects left on the floor seems like mission impossible
           | without a significant change in approach. Similarly for
           | surfaces that are above the floor (desk, shelves etc.)
           | Cleaning the exterior could be its own an quite an
           | interesting thing though. Stuff like removing dead foliage
           | from the roof for instance, or repainting the walls.
           | 
           | * Cooking. This could be potentially interesting, but will
           | probably require a complete redesign of the tools used for
           | cooking today to be reasonably priced. Eg. there would be no
           | need for knives with handles for humans, because it's easier
           | to make a slicing / chopping machine that has a very
           | different configuration. Stoves and ovens would need to have
           | some way of moving pots in and out automatically. Also,
           | they'd probably have to be connected to the fridge and other
           | kitchen storage... Which, in the end, means that it's not
           | going to be an incremental upgrade. It will be also probably
           | difficult to make the automated system coexist with human
           | cooks...
        
             | kccqzy wrote:
             | > it just doesn't save that much money, even if it works
             | well
             | 
             | You should see how wasteful typical American households are
             | when they use a dumb thermometer. The best energy-saving
             | feature is simply at-home vs away-from-home detection. I
             | don't want my HVAC at home to run when I'm away at work or
             | worse away at vacation, unless the temperature is really
             | extreme. This easily saves me hundreds of dollars for a
             | month-long vacation.
             | 
             | > Making roombas deal with furniture or large objects left
             | on the floor seems like mission impossible
             | 
             | Roomba the company hasn't innovated in years. Switch to a
             | different brand like Roborocks. Also don't choose models
             | with a camera for privacy and performance reasons: lidar is
             | much better.
        
         | slongfield wrote:
         | I have a Roomba, it works pretty well for doing 'maintenance
         | level' vacuuming--keeping the level of cat hair to a manageable
         | level, etc. For the most part, robot vacuums have succeeded in
         | becoming boring, which is what I really want in an appliance.
        
         | ilovetux wrote:
         | I want a smart home, but I also do not want to send my data to
         | anyone else and I don't really have the time to cobble
         | something together.
         | 
         | If apple can refrain from sending the data to icloud or any
         | other servers, then I would be very interested.
        
           | nostromo wrote:
           | That exists today. Apple's Homekit is the only real solution
           | for a smart home that doesn't send everything to/from the
           | cloud.
        
             | rubatuga wrote:
             | I'm trying to update to v2 of HomeKit in the Home app but
             | it won't let me unless I login to iCloud. From what I
             | recall v2 of HomeKit relies on a hub spoke model, as
             | opposed to v1 which relies more on broadcast packets.
        
         | TheFuzzball wrote:
         | Sonos would like a word.
        
           | pquki4 wrote:
           | I'm not holding my breath after seeing their stock price.
        
         | leetharris wrote:
         | I think it's that most actually useful smart home stuff was
         | very quickly saturated. It is great to be able to adjust my
         | lights easily. It is great to turn my TV off in the other room.
         | It is great to have a robot vacuum.
         | 
         | But a smart coffee maker? A smart clock? A smart dishwasher?
         | All this garbage ended up being gimmicks and it ran out of
         | steam so quickly.
         | 
         | I hope the things that are useful continue to get support as
         | the big players abandon smart home expansion.
        
         | ramenmeal wrote:
         | From what I hear, it's a nightmare to get Siri to know what
         | light you want to turn on. Unfortunately it seems like apple is
         | trailing the pack in the smart home area.
        
         | modoc wrote:
         | I really do want smart home devices! My biggest issue so far
         | has been stability and interoperability issues between each
         | vendor and system. Those things have gotten better, but are
         | still a headache. Apple is in a pretty good position to solve
         | those pain points (at the cost of buying new devices (Apple
         | brand or Apple Certified maybe?). Or maybe I need to dive
         | deeper into HomeAssistant...
        
           | SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
           | > Or maybe I need to dive deeper into HomeAssistant...
           | 
           | This is the answer.
           | 
           | HomeAssistant is fantastic and has unified everything of mine
           | into a single platform. Control mostly happens through Google
           | and Apple/Homekit devices (other than hardware switches), and
           | everything works pretty seamlessly.
        
         | vineyardmike wrote:
         | As another commenter alluded to, good Smarthome tech becomes an
         | appliance, which isn't a desirable high margin business, and
         | bad tech becomes a nuisance which is also not a desirable
         | business.
         | 
         | That's why Google is slowly getting out of it and shifting
         | their focus from Nest. That's why Apple never did much beyond a
         | few speakers, and it's why Amazon is right at home in that
         | business (but even they're getting out of the money-losing
         | voice assistant aspect).
         | 
         | Robotics... seem like a miss to me. Very few tasks at home are
         | as simple as vacuuming, but maybe I just lack the creativity
         | and vision. Apple surely has some great tech left over from the
         | car R&D so who knows. Apple is unfortunately not great at a
         | "communal" perspective when making things.
         | 
         | I think a big issue no one talks about will be robot
         | storage/garages. It's already an issue for Roomba and anything
         | bigger will be a no-go for many households. That is probably
         | apples best chance - make it pleasant to look at and a status
         | symbol.
        
           | pjerem wrote:
           | > Robotics... seem like a miss to me. Very few tasks at home
           | are as simple as vacuuming
           | 
           | Even vacuuming was pretty hard. Most vacuum robots were a
           | disappointment until maybe 2 or 3 years.
        
             | vineyardmike wrote:
             | Oh absolutely, it just has the advantage of being a well
             | know and relatively simple machine (the vacuum), that is
             | expected to roll across the floor, and is expected to avoid
             | household objects instead of interacting with them.
             | 
             | Almost all other tasks either operate at human-hands level
             | (significantly bigger robot) or need intimate understanding
             | of you and your home (eg picking things up off the floor)
             | or need a ton of dexterity (folding clothes). Or all three.
        
         | chongli wrote:
         | I like smart devices for their automation potential. I use
         | smart plugs to turn on and off lights, coffee makers, grow
         | lights, heating mats. The ability to quickly program a plug to
         | turn on every morning at 10am and turn off again at 10pm is
         | valuable to me. It's even more valuable if you get into hobbies
         | like aquarium keeping where you can automate lights and fish
         | feeders.
         | 
         | Yes, you can do all of these things manually, but are you good
         | at keeping a flawless schedule? It may not matter if you forget
         | to turn on the coffee maker but it matters a lot if you forget
         | to feed the fish. And you won't always be available to handle
         | these things every single day, unless you work from home and
         | follow an extremely rigid schedule.
        
           | stevage wrote:
           | I'm curious about the coffee maker bit. I drink espresso and
           | I can't really imagine a benefit in turning something a
           | device on if someone isn't there to also put coffee in it,
           | pour it etc.
           | 
           | How much time does it save you having your coffee maker or
           | before you go to get coffee?
        
           | rubatuga wrote:
           | The thing with a fish feeder is that it can be completely
           | analog and still work fine.
        
         | pjerem wrote:
         | I have the feeling that basically all current smart home
         | products are either a disappointment in their limitations or
         | useful but really time consuming.
         | 
         | The only smart appliances I got are Philips hue lights which
         | are nice but well, after the initial discovery, I use them as
         | classical light bulbs 99% of the time. I've found zero useful
         | automation (not saying they don't exists) and I can't see why I
         | would control lighting from my phone (at least not enough to
         | justify spending hundreds into smart bulbs and smart switches).
         | 
         | Ultimately, I'm not against smart home but since each home is
         | unique, by definition, those objects are only useful if the
         | user is willing to invest enough time to tailor the
         | configuration to be useful in his own unique house.
         | 
         | Oh I thought about ranting about my experience with Sonos
         | speakers which are really nice speakers with great audio
         | quality for the money and size and everything you'd want except
         | the "smart" part you are forced to use with their terrible (and
         | closed) software.
        
         | stevage wrote:
         | I thought I would be into smart home devices, but the companies
         | fucked up by turning them into privacy and security
         | liabilities, with poor interoperability and likelihood of
         | turning into junk when the company goes under.
        
         | Reason077 wrote:
         | > _""Smart home " has really fallen flat across the board,... I
         | just don't think people really want smart home devices all that
         | much."_
         | 
         | Or are these devices just so common, unremarkable, and
         | ubiquitous now that you just aren't noticing them anymore? I
         | can't think of any of my friends and family who don't at least
         | have some smart speakers and smart lighting devices in their
         | home.
         | 
         | Smart door locks that you can open with your phone, and smart
         | door bells and security cameras that you can monitor remotely
         | are becoming pretty common too.
        
       | pazimzadeh wrote:
       | It would be nice to have a tripod on wheels that can have my iPad
       | follow me around, and possibly respond to voice commands (move
       | up, move down) or possibly integrate with the iPad camera to
       | automatically be at eye level.
       | 
       | I've been using this and it's great but has its limitations:
       | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J6HBY1Q
        
       | pquki4 wrote:
       | I see it as the potential 'Next Apple Car'
        
       | purpleblue wrote:
       | They should just fix Siri and iTunes. Siri is shockingly useless.
       | If Siri were even a little more useful I would get a Home Pod but
       | it's utterly useless for most things except setting timers and
       | turning on lights.
        
         | rrr_oh_man wrote:
         | Whisper >>>> Siri
        
         | CamperBob2 wrote:
         | Yeah, in retrospect, it was silly to think the company
         | responsible for Siri was going to succeed in the self-driving
         | car business... _or_ the robot business.
         | 
         | They need some actual management talent, evidently.
        
       | newhotelowner wrote:
       | I want something that cleans my bathroom and toilet. I will buy
       | it for my business and will pay 20-30k/year.
       | 
       | Also, something to Clean my dishes (Load in the dishwasher, turn
       | it on, and put it away).
       | 
       | Doing my laundry - load, wash and fold. Mow the lawn.
        
         | huytersd wrote:
         | Automated lawn mowing is relatively mature at this point and
         | works well, assuming you have a relatively flat lawn.
         | 
         | A one time purchase price of 20k would be acceptable. $20-30k
         | per year is ridiculous. For that price you can hire a person to
         | come and clean your toilet for 5 hours a day, every single day.
        
           | sgt wrote:
           | So... I have a gardener. He works two days a week doing all
           | kinds of stuff.
           | 
           | The mowing itself (and trimming) takes 5% of his time, or
           | even less.
           | 
           | Funny how people enjoy automating the part that you easily
           | could do yourself without a massive time impact.
        
             | huytersd wrote:
             | It depends. My backyard lawn is about 2 acres in size. It
             | takes me 1.5 hours to manually mow it with a small 21 inch
             | powered push mower. I just let the auto mower do its thing
             | continuously and it charges itself. Costs almost nothing
             | since I sharpen the blades about once a month myself. It's
             | also nice because the grass is _always_ trimmed. You don't
             | have to go through the let it get tall and the landscaper
             | mows it down every two weeks cycle.
        
         | sgt wrote:
         | Pretty sure you can get a domestic service to pop by at much
         | lower than that. Biologics are still king.
        
         | guhidalg wrote:
         | I would pay like $5000 for a laundry folding robot. I just want
         | a big washing-machine sized box where I dump my laundry at the
         | top and slowly everything gets folded. That's 1 hour / week
         | freed up.
        
           | rrr_oh_man wrote:
           | You could get yourself a drying cabinet (basically a closet
           | with an A/C inside).
        
             | guhidalg wrote:
             | That could handle items on hangers, but I'm talking about
             | folding underwear, shorts, T-shirts, pants, etc... That
             | requires careful manipulation.
        
               | rrr_oh_man wrote:
               | I used to think so, too, but solved this the following:
               | 
               | Hanging _EVERYTHING_. Not only shirts and jackets, but
               | also t-shirts, pants, shorts.
               | 
               | This leaves one drawer each for socks and underwear,
               | which both is not horrible from a laundry management
               | perspetive.
        
         | CPLX wrote:
         | I just want a machine that will produce a cup of something that
         | is almost, but not completely, unlike tea.
        
           | rrr_oh_man wrote:
           | Thank you for reminding me of this fabulous book.
        
           | exe34 wrote:
           | You can get shitty vending machines for that!
        
         | canthonytucci wrote:
         | If you replace enough of your cabinets with dishwashers you
         | never need to put dishes away again.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | I know being late to the game and doing the tech "right" in terms
       | of design and usability is kinda Apple's thing, but lately it
       | seems like they have been only picking areas that weren't
       | successful for a reason, like insurmountable technical
       | difficulties or lack of customer interest, and no amount of
       | Apple's design or marketing magic can fix that. See - self
       | driving, AR/VR, smart speakers, folding phones, now home
       | robotics. I know for a fact that they have been hiring a bunch of
       | engineers from Google's Everyday Robots division (which shut down
       | last year), but I really can't see why the same people will be
       | successful under a new corporate overlord.
        
         | rain_iwakura wrote:
         | that failure is much more a leadership issue than a talent
         | issue. Google was founded by PhD students and it shows. (I am
         | one.) It's like a giant lab where things get prototyped and
         | innovations are pushed, but where product ends up sidelined by
         | bloated admin (how many levels are there and why does it feel
         | like an MMORPG i.e World of Warcraft) and lack of clear
         | capitalist vision (I'm actually anti-capitalist but even I can
         | admit to this LOL). Honestly, it sounds exactly like a
         | university. I used to think Google was slated to be the king of
         | AI back when I starting out because they had ALL the talent
         | (even OpenAI is its offshoot if you consider early employees
         | and Ilya himself). I feel like it was so lateral that it was a
         | loose federation of small tribes of smart people that live
         | under the same banner, but not a tight organization where each
         | team had its purpose within a giant mechanism. But as the
         | saying goes too many cooks spoil the broth.
         | 
         | Apple is WAY different internally. For all its dreariness and
         | corpo atmosphere (not allowed to talk to each other, teams
         | siloed and laser focused on shipping a specific product) they
         | have much clearer vision of what will sell and what not, usual
         | company missteps (AR glasses) notwithstanding.
        
         | 7thaccount wrote:
         | I also can't imagine a home robotics use case that I would get
         | excited over. Can anyone think of anything? I would guess any
         | new product would be more complex, less efficient, and a
         | security risk. It'll be cool and trendy for a few months and
         | then die off. Just like the Alexa and Google speakers that can
         | tell you the weather or adjust your lights...is it REALLY that
         | useful outside of entertaining your nieces and nephews? My
         | guess is that they'll make some revenue from collecting user
         | data and selling it to data brokers or something.
         | 
         | Edit: someone below said laundry folding robot. I'd see that as
         | useful.
        
           | exe34 wrote:
           | I imagine an ageing population with social isolation might be
           | the golden ticket for this kind of work.
        
           | nostromo wrote:
           | I'm shocked by your comment. Everyone that doesn't enjoy
           | cleaning, cooking, doing laundry, mowing the lawn, or taking
           | out the trash would LOVE a home robot that really works.
           | 
           | Of course, these are very hard problems to take on -- much
           | harder than a "smart" light switch -- but the market is
           | absolutely there.
        
             | CharlieDigital wrote:
             | > Everyone that doesn't enjoy cleaning, cooking, doing
             | laundry, mowing the lawn, or taking out the trash would
             | LOVE a home robot that really works.
             | 
             | We are far, far away from any of the remaining tedious
             | parts of those things being done competently by a robot.
             | 
             | - Dishes: dishwashers already do the majority of the labor
             | intensive part.
             | 
             | - Laundry: the washer already does the labor intensive
             | part.
             | 
             | - Mowing: if you don't trust robot cars, you shouldn't
             | trust a moving robot with blades attached.
             | 
             | - Taking out the trash: I don't see buying a multi-thousand
             | dollar robot to save me the 20 seconds it takes to walk the
             | garbage out.
             | 
             | Even robot vacuums are kinda terrible.
        
               | LightBug1 wrote:
               | Upvote for robot vaccums - even value ones are pretty
               | good these days (imo)
        
               | V99 wrote:
               | Traversing a rectangle of grass at 2mph in a backyard is
               | absurdly simpler than self-driving cars on open roads,
               | and the absolute worst-case is something like a foot or
               | pet injury.
               | 
               | There are multiple companies that already sell automatic
               | lawn mowers in the $1000+ range. Some you bury a boundary
               | wire around the target area, others figure it out with
               | cameras.
        
           | burkaman wrote:
           | I don't personally find them exciting but robotic vacuum
           | cleaners are pretty popular, I guess they could make an
           | expensive one of those and be successful.
        
           | judah wrote:
           | The company that builds a robot that can do household chores
           | will be very, very rich.
           | 
           | I want a bot that can do laundry (load washer, load dryer,
           | fold, put away), do the dishes (rinse, put in dishwasher, put
           | clean dishes away, wash pots & pans), vacuum floors, dust,
           | clean up messes, empty garbage bins, take out the trash, mow
           | my lawn, trim bushes, clean tables, mop floors, make meals,
           | cleans toilets and sinks and bathrooms.
           | 
           | Currently myself and my wife split these duties, and kids
           | help a bit. But it's still a ton of work for us. I would love
           | to offload all that and more to a robot.
        
             | freitzkriesler2 wrote:
             | Pretty much this. We pay a cleaning service for the
             | privilege to vacuum and dust.
             | 
             | A robot that does it for me that I can buy for $15k and
             | last a decade? Id be all over it.
        
               | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
               | Robots can already vacuum and mop floors pretty decently
               | for <$2k.
               | 
               | No one is building a robot to dust your antique china
               | collection anytime soon.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | Human-sized robots (arguably needed for some of the tasks
             | you list, being able to walk stairs, etc.) will be creepy
             | due to how they'll be physically imposing, and with a risk
             | of being dangerous due to how massive they'll need to be,
             | for example falling over due to
             | malfunction/collision/tripping, and potentially crushing a
             | small child. I don't see such a product happening for home
             | use.
        
           | Moto7451 wrote:
           | Food prep.
           | 
           | There are already products for infants that will prep baby
           | food. It's harder to do something more complicated than that.
           | Meal kit type meals that take grocery store ingredients as an
           | input would likely do well with the well to do 30+ crowd that
           | is in the middle of having kids and home remodels and is
           | upset at how much delivery restaurant food they eat.
           | 
           | I'm definitely not projecting ;).
           | 
           | I think there's likely a market for just the iBabyFood maker
           | let along coming closer to an automated chef that's "smarter"
           | than buying a meal kit.
           | 
           | My experience with smart vacuums is that the more "AI" they
           | add to them the worse they get. I've switched brands a few
           | times and have always preferred the dumber models. I'm sure
           | old iPhone tech and some computer vision know how would make
           | a "Roomba killer" possible but I don't know how many people
           | are going to by the Beats by Dre Vacuum. Maybe a lot?
           | 
           | As things become more solarized a cross "platform" energy
           | management system would be useful. Load controllers exist but
           | often they're tied to solar batteries or EVSEs. In my case I
           | could avoid the cost of a panel update if there was a good
           | system for load control that also wouldn't upset my family.
           | I.e. if they need to handle a transfer switch they will not
           | be happy. More like, "if I'm running the jacuzzi and it's
           | winter, gate the AC but not the heat pump. If it's summer
           | gate the heat pump Aux heat but not the heat pump itself"
           | 
           | Most load controllers are focused on making a generator or
           | battery run critical loads and don't really work for larger
           | more electrified homes on 200A panels.
        
         | nostromo wrote:
         | I like that Apple is taking on big hard futuristic problems,
         | like AR/VR, AI, and home robotics.
         | 
         | But from a business perspective it seems unlikely to be
         | successful. Apple could "easily" sell a luxury car and TVs and
         | print many billions of dollars right away. They wouldn't need
         | unproven tech -- they could just use their design skills along
         | with vertical integration to have very nice products that
         | people would want to buy. Apple should eschew some of Silicon
         | Valley's obsessions, like self-driving cars, which most people
         | do not care about at all, and instead focus on their strengths.
        
           | azinman2 wrote:
           | Sounds like you've never been in a Waymo. It's so much better
           | than an Uber it's not even funny, and that's worth many
           | billions right there.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | Apple just recently cancelled their car project after ten
             | years of R&D and spending over $10 billion.
        
         | npunt wrote:
         | One thing about Apple is things can make sense for them to
         | explore that don't make sense for others to. They have a big
         | enough ecosystem, enough cash to do R&D on an idea for
         | _decades_ , and a culture of killing things that aren't good
         | enough that make them an ideal place to determine whether ideas
         | are a conceptual dead end versus just haven't been executed
         | well enough (or tied to the right ecosystem to make them work).
         | 
         | Foldables make sense for Apple to explore because even if it's
         | ~5% likely to be able to be productized, the return is measured
         | in the tens of billions.
         | 
         | Smart speakers were comparatively cheap and are probably
         | profitable, so even if they're not a huge market they made
         | sense.
         | 
         | AR/VR remains to be seen. Meta's still learning how to build
         | hardware and operating systems and still learning how to sell
         | actual products, so they're probably not the right ones to test
         | concept risk when they already have so much execution risk.
         | They also don't have the leverage or insertion point that Apple
         | does if e.g. AR/VR turns into an alternative to computers &
         | iPhones instead of an alternative to consoles. It may also be
         | that Vision Pro is just a prelude to AR that ship in ~2035 but
         | lays so much groundwork that nobody stands a chance at
         | competing by the time the tech is ready, letting Apple secure
         | the next trillion dollar product.
         | 
         | Cars were expensive and cancelled, that's the one that required
         | Apple to stretch the most in terms of both brand and execution.
         | 
         | In your Google example, remember they invented transformers and
         | yet did nothing with them. Any failure in Google's robotics
         | efforts are likely due to Google having an absolutely horrible
         | record of shipping and standing behind products. I wouldn't
         | trust a Google robot because I wouldn't trust a Google
         | _product_.
        
         | jauntywundrkind wrote:
         | Not playing everywhere is an existential risk. Because IT is so
         | integrative, if anyone gets a huge leg up in any sector, Apple
         | risks getting shut out in a lot of other sectors.
         | 
         | Spatial Computing/iVision is, for example, a claim in vr. It
         | gives them some exposure to the market, some ability to extend
         | & integrate their existing application/computing ecosystem into
         | this medium. Ditto for all the other pieces; they're all
         | integrative. Smart speakers work with airplay. iWatch works
         | with iPhone works with iOS. The close integration lets them
         | rebuff innovation in any other field: no one small can come
         | along and build the next VR headset or the best watch to
         | compete with Apple in any of these sectors, because no one can
         | integrate like Apple. No one else has all the products. You
         | have to have complete over the horizon horizontal control to
         | keep your intense market power, and Apple is invested above all
         | in there never being a chink in that armor, in making sure they
         | can completely dictate the shape of all products by producing &
         | owning all the products themselves. This is Apple.
         | 
         | Hence, Apple has to dabble everywhere. It maintains the most,
         | it prevents real competition from forming, and it earns them a
         | couple % revenue here and there to boot.
         | 
         | Expressing an entirely different brand of cynicism, I'd also
         | ask: where else _could_ Apple look to expand into? None of
         | these sectors has been a runaway success. But it 's not like
         | Apple's missing the boat on some massive new tech that a huge
         | new Total Addressable Market. It's been absent from Crypto and
         | AI but generally it's just expanding wherever there's any
         | opportunity, and why not when you have the cash & when any
         | sector _could_ become huge?
        
           | nxobject wrote:
           | That's true, _and_ I think there's a tendency to think that
           | Steve Jobs only launched things he knew were immediate hits -
           | when products that look influential in retrospect, like iPods
           | and the MacBook Air, took a few years to really take off.
        
         | nxobject wrote:
         | For what it's worth, I don't know whether we'll ever know all
         | of the Jobs-era skunkworks projects that were shut down before
         | they ever saw the limelight. The lid on the rumors was much
         | tighter back then.
        
       | d--b wrote:
       | There are a bunch of things in a house that are time consuming
       | that would benefit from the help of robots. In fact it's all the
       | things that rich people can afford to hire someone to do:
       | 
       | - cooking
       | 
       | - cleaning
       | 
       | - taking care of kids
       | 
       | You can be sure that a ton of people are working on those.
        
         | testfrequency wrote:
         | Ok. Now you're just reading the script from the hit Disney
         | channel movie Smart House
        
       | woah wrote:
       | > Near its campus in Cupertino, California, Apple has a secret
       | facility that resembles the inside of a house -- a site where it
       | can test future devices and initiatives for the home.
       | 
       | Apple has a condo in Cupertino?
        
         | testfrequency wrote:
         | WWDC21
        
         | buescher wrote:
         | UL has, or had, a whole house in Fremont (maybe Milpitas)
         | associated with their Fremont lab location for testing Wi-
         | Fi/Bluetooth/etc interoperability in a "real-world" setting.
         | They're not the only test lab to do something like that,
         | either.
         | 
         | It would not surprise me at all if Apple had a similar facility
         | for themselves, especially for internal demos, user testing,
         | and sanity checks.
        
       | prewett wrote:
       | Sounds like Apple needs to increase its dividend, this does not
       | sound like a promising use of capital for Apple.
        
         | howerj wrote:
         | I was about to say the same thing, Apple have too much capital
         | and they do not know what to do with it. It would be better to
         | give it back to their investors instead of...this.
        
       | thangalin wrote:
       | Barring major technical glitches, installation and configuration
       | of a reliable locally hosted Zigbee-based solution is on the
       | order of two hours.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJEwrSSFe9s
       | 
       | Here's what I used:                   Raspberry Pi Model 4 B
       | Raspberry Pi CPU         Raspberry Pi CPU heatsink (w/self-
       | adhesive)         Raspberry Pi manual         Raspberry Pi A/C
       | adapter         Raspberry Pi case         ConBee II Zigbee USB
       | gateway         USB ADATA Micro SD card reader         USB cable
       | Micro SD card (for operating system and Home Assistant)
       | Ethernet cable (probably not needed because the Pi 4 has onboard
       | WiFi)
       | 
       | Thermostats: https://www.sinopetech.com/en/products/thermostat/
       | 
       | I haven't tried running a local text-to-speech engine backed by
       | an LLM to control Home Assistant (HA). Maybe someone is working
       | on this already?
       | 
       | TTS: https://github.com/SYSTRAN/faster-whisper
       | 
       | LLM: https://github.com/Mozilla-Ocho/llamafile/releases
       | 
       | LLM: https://huggingface.co/TheBloke/Nous-
       | Hermes-2-Mixtral-8x7B-D...
       | 
       | HA: https://www.home-assistant.io/
       | 
       | It would take some tweaking to get the voice commands working
       | correctly.
        
       | mmcconnell1618 wrote:
       | Japan makes incredible bidet toilets that got some traction
       | during the pandemic. The jokes write themselves but a smart
       | toilet that had health tracking features liked to the rest of the
       | Apple fitness eco-system could be interesting.
       | 
       | The security camera, door lock, and thermostat space has room for
       | improvement. The annual subscription model for cameras combined
       | with their privacy gaps opens a space for Apple. My car unlocks
       | when I walk up to it. Shouldn't my house do the same?
       | 
       | Kitchen appliances have gone done in quality to the point that
       | they are replaced every few years when the linear motors fail. I
       | don't know if there is enough margin for Apple but knowing what
       | food is cycling through the kitchen would be another interesting
       | health input.
       | 
       | 3D printer, laser cutter, replicator machine that manufactures
       | physical goods in your house.
       | 
       | Automatic pool/hot tub system that keeps chemical levels balanced
       | and orders supplies as needed.
       | 
       | Urban gardening pods that allow anyone to grow healthy food at
       | home.
        
       | notyourav wrote:
       | I wish there was a vacuum bot that didn't need so frequent
       | maintenance.
        
       | bandyaboot wrote:
       | I'm guessing if they're successful, the result will be something
       | extremely expensive.
        
       | kgwxd wrote:
       | _facepalm emoji_
        
       | futureshock wrote:
       | This seems like one of the most hideously complex products you
       | could possibly choose. Self driving cars were already out of
       | reach for Apple and their team abandoned the effort. How do they
       | think they are going to navigate and clean people's homes!?
        
       | ENGNR wrote:
       | For me the "transformative" aspect of personal robotics is...
       | maintenance
       | 
       | Why does every store have self opening doors, but no houses do? I
       | think it's because paying ~$500/year to get it running again when
       | it breaks feels like a waste to almost any home owner. The same
       | with other random innovations, like a car stacker to push your
       | car into the garage roof when not in use so you can use the
       | garage (the hydraulics would break), fans and pumps to move heat
       | in or out of the house or water around the garden, they're a pain
       | because they break, it's only worth it if you're running a
       | commercial operation.
       | 
       | So homes end up with the absolute minimum number of things that
       | could break. Calling out trades for the few things people must
       | have requires smart people who are physically able, that have
       | their ticket in a protected industry (in many countries). But a
       | robot could have the same knowledge and physicality - at a fixed
       | yearly cost.
       | 
       | If that were to happen, homes would transform as all sorts of
       | things that require very occasional maintenance would start to
       | appear. If something breaks even a very weak robot could diagnose
       | it, find the parts online, have them delivered and probably
       | install them.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-04-04 23:01 UTC)