[HN Gopher] Improvements to the fine-tuning API and expanding ou...
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       Improvements to the fine-tuning API and expanding our custom models
       program
        
       Author : Josely
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2024-04-04 14:58 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (openai.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (openai.com)
        
       | spxneo wrote:
       | Did you hear that?
       | 
       | It's the sound of another opencore AI startup unknowingly
       | participating in NVDA arbitrage becoming irrelevant overnight.
        
       | minimaxir wrote:
       | > As a result, Indeed was able to improve cost and latency by
       | reducing the number of tokens in prompt by 80%.
       | 
       | There's some exact words shenanigans here. Indeed may have
       | reduced the _number of tokens_ in the prompt by 80%, but they
       | didn 't reduce the _cost_ by 80%: the prompt cost of inferring
       | from a fine-tuned GPT-3.5-turbo ($3.00  / 1M tokens) is 6x the
       | prompt cost of inferring from the base GPT-3.5-turbo ($0.50 / 1M
       | tokens). If prompt tokens are cut to 20% of normal, then that
       | implies the overall cost of the prompt tokens is _120%_ relative
       | to their normal prompt: a cost increase! That 's not even getting
       | into the 4x cost of the completion tokens for a finetuned model.
       | 
       | Of course, Indeed likely has an enterprise contract reducing
       | costs further.
        
         | spxneo wrote:
         | The SK telecom one is highly suspect too. My guess is we are
         | not going to see ChatGPT-5 until the AI bubble begins to
         | deflate.
         | 
         | My question is will it be before or after US elections?
        
           | leosanchez wrote:
           | I remember reading somewhere GPT5 will be released in summer
           | this year
        
         | throwaway74432 wrote:
         | Number of tokens is still a useful metric, as their endpoints
         | have Tokens Per Minute quotas. Decreasing number of tokens used
         | means increasing throughput, up until the Request Per Minute
         | quota.
        
           | afro88 wrote:
           | But the sentence was "Indeed was able to improve cost..."
        
             | mechagodzilla wrote:
             | From OpenAI's perspective the cost improved!
        
             | throwaway74432 wrote:
             | "...and latency" Higher throughput = lower latency*
             | 
             | *Under certain conditions
        
         | Randalthorro wrote:
         | Indeed was going to use a fine tuned endpoint on their
         | enterprise contract regardless..
        
         | IanCal wrote:
         | It may simply be a timing thing. 3.5-turbo saw a price drop
         | between the launch of fine tuning and now.
        
       | Workaccount2 wrote:
       | Can't wait till I have to pay a lawyer $500/hr to turn around and
       | ask a bot what to do.
       | 
       | Given the disproportionate amount of lawyers in any given
       | legislature, never mind the make-up of judges, I can only imagine
       | that a legal stranglehold insulating lawyers from the threat of
       | AI will be one of, if not the, first bit of AI protectionist
       | legislation.
        
         | visarga wrote:
         | Computers can never be responsible or accountable for their
         | actions. AI is like the genie from the lamp, it will grant your
         | 3 wishes and they will turn out weird. And you can't do
         | anything to it. What can you do, it has no body. Only a human
         | has skin in the game.
        
           | LunaSea wrote:
           | That's great because lawyers can't either.
           | 
           | You can't retry a case if you had a bad lawyer, only if
           | procedural mistakes were made.
        
         | anon373839 wrote:
         | Trust me, existing LLMs are nowhere near being able to provide
         | that kind of legal analysis. With the diminishing rate of
         | improvement in the frontier models that we've seen, I'm also
         | doubtful this particular technology is on a path to get there.
        
       | Its_Padar wrote:
       | OpenAI are pretty much the most dominant LLM company at the
       | moment.
       | 
       | I just wish they let you make new accounts after deleting an old
       | account, apparently it's something to do with the database when I
       | ask them about it, which suggests that they store data about
       | users even after someone deletes their account.
        
         | mirekrusin wrote:
         | ...seriously, that's your only wish?
        
       | benreesman wrote:
       | These people can't just lay low for even a few days. It's been
       | one reminder after another that for some almost certainly bad
       | reason, OpenAI wants everyone to remember that some of the most
       | scandalous revelations with a _mountain_ of even more damning and
       | extremely credible allegations hot on their heels is a new record
       | for SV insanity, at least since the early 90s that I've been
       | watching.
       | 
       | The CEO was (up to a credible consensus of primary sources)
       | _fired for self-dealing in borderline criminal fraud-level ways_.
       | I'm not aware of anyone disputing this with any vigor. Then that
       | CEO was _fired again_ for more vague but thematically consistent
       | allegations of flagrantly profiteering off an ostensible charity
       | actively lobbying for de-facto regulator status. Then that CEO
       | made a token concession by disposing of yet another in this
       | cavalcade of personal financial gain presented as urgent
       | imperative.
       | 
       | And the most moderating influence is a guy who has been run out
       | of everything from politics to finance to prestigious academic
       | posts over scandal after scandal in print for 35 years running,
       | and has yet to issue an apology I'm aware of.
       | 
       | But the really high thread-count noose is that Opus is mopping
       | the floor with GPT-4-1106 and 0125, on money that would fall out
       | of Nadella's couch cushions. And it's dramatically operator-
       | aligned.
       | 
       | You can't be a society-scale criminal, keep it up for over a
       | decade, _and_ get lapped by vastly less-resourced competitors in
       | the Valley. You shouldn't be able to do any of that and still
       | wield any power.
       | 
       | This new breed of tech titans have forgotten something their
       | predecessors knew: it took Wall Street a century to utterly
       | capture its regulators.
       | 
       | Tech people who go big enough? Holmes is serving time, SBF is
       | serving time, they're not the first.
       | 
       | This isn't about corrupting the competitive landscape anymore
       | geniuses: this is about staying out of prison.
        
         | visarga wrote:
         | > Opus is mopping the floor with GPT 4 1106 and 0125
         | 
         | True. I only hop on GPT-4 when I finish my quota for Claude. I
         | much prefer Claude's long form writing.
        
         | dannyw wrote:
         | There are some serious allegations here. Do you have links that
         | recap / substantiate this in more detail?
        
           | benreesman wrote:
           | Sure.
           | 
           | https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/sam-altmans-
           | ma...
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Summers
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summers_memo
           | 
           | https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/warning/
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loopt
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialcam
           | 
           | https://www.wsj.com/tech/sec-investigating-whether-openai-
           | in...
           | 
           | https://www.businessinsider.com/sam-altman-hype-openai-
           | silic...
           | 
           | https://archive.is/2023.12.02-101904/https://www.washingtonp.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://www.reuters.com/technology/openai-ceo-sam-altman-
           | ste...
           | 
           | https://qz.com/sam-altman-openai-fund-1851380019
           | 
           | https://fortune.com/2023/09/20/instacart-ipo-stock-shares-
           | ce...
        
             | mewpmewp2 wrote:
             | Could you have GPT summarize all those links please? And
             | into 3 sentences max ELI5 please.
        
               | benreesman wrote:
               | I'll do it myself.
               | 
               | Altman/Loopt, Siebel/Socialcam, Emmett/Twitch failed and
               | got rich. The people who trusted them lost a lot. People
               | still say they're smart.
               | 
               | Larry said we should put as much poison in Africa as we
               | can. He wrote it down. He tried to get someone fired, by
               | ratting out his friends. He made bankers angry. They
               | never forgave him. So he moved. Also, Brooksley was going
               | to save America. Larry said she was a woman and be quiet.
               | Also stealing is ok.
               | 
               | Bankers don't go to prison. They can do anything. But
               | it's not because they're rich. It's because they know
               | important people. Also rich.
               | 
               | Creepy tech people aren't like bankers. They don't get in
               | trouble much. But if they're bad enough, they go to jail.
               | 
               | Someone did the worst thing in a long time. They've done
               | it a lot.
               | 
               | He should say sorry and get a different job, because jail
               | sucks.
        
               | raincole wrote:
               | _A little bit_ hard to see how this is relevant to a
               | thread about _Introducing improvements to the fine-tuning
               | API and expanding our custom models program_.
        
       | mirekrusin wrote:
       | "There are a variety of techniques that developers can use to
       | (...) reduce costs."
       | 
       | they forgot to mention using open models.
        
       | kaycebasques wrote:
       | Kind of a nothing burger announcement for me. Doesn't seem to be
       | anything here that would noticeably change how I'm approaching my
       | fine-tuning projects.
        
         | john_allard wrote:
         | Is there anything specific you'd like to see? What would be the
         | highest value improvements we could make to our service in your
         | eyes?
        
       | msp26 wrote:
       | Friendly notice for anyone optimising their openai token usage:
       | multi_tool use wastes 200 tokens on every call with function
       | calling. You're better off implementing function calling yourself
       | than using their API implementation.
        
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       (page generated 2024-04-04 23:00 UTC)