[HN Gopher] Henry Darger
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Henry Darger
        
       Author : EndXA
       Score  : 136 points
       Date   : 2024-04-03 23:16 UTC (23 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.moma.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.moma.org)
        
       | 39896880 wrote:
       | He wrote a massive novel, is dead and left no estate, and yet it
       | remains unavailable to read. There is certainly no technological
       | reason why this is the case.
        
         | 1auralynn wrote:
         | Personally, I find his work compelling - I saw an amazing
         | exhibit at the Frye in Seattle and the scale of it was
         | incredible, also the composition. But I think his work makes
         | some people uncomfortable. From Wikipedia: "One idiosyncratic
         | feature of Darger's artwork is that his girl subjects are shown
         | to have penises when unclothed or partially clothed. Darger
         | biographer Jim Elledge speculates that this represents a
         | reflection of Darger's own childhood issues with sexual
         | identity and homosexuality."
        
           | 1auralynn wrote:
           | There is a great documentary on him: In the Realms of the
           | Unreal
        
             | sitkack wrote:
             | I saw this and came to say the same thing.
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRlvDKcDvsI
             | 
             | Weird dude, but outsider art is fascinating.
        
           | fumeux_fume wrote:
           | I also got to see his work at the Frye many years ago. It was
           | one of the best exhibits I've seen in Seattle. That was also
           | the era they had R. Crumb retrospective--a real coup for a
           | museum that's free to the public.
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | From all accounts, it's--not good. Also, it's really long and
         | it would be a non-trivial (and expensive) effort to make it
         | available.
        
           | 39896880 wrote:
           | It's already been digitized [0]. It's just being held up due
           | to you, you guessed it, lawsuits [1]. Whether it's "good" or
           | not is not really relevant; we have the capacity to preserve
           | it and make it available.
           | 
           | [1]https://web.archive.org/web/20230811081008/https://www.lex
           | ol...
           | 
           | [0]https://folkartmuseum.libraryhost.com/repositories/2/resou
           | rc...
        
         | HanClinto wrote:
         | This is the best (only) copy that I have been able to find that
         | appears to be legitimate (?). It only includes selections, is
         | of low quality, and is not the entire work -- but it does
         | provide some legible pages:
         | 
         | https://archive.org/details/realms-of-the-unreal/Realms%20of...
         | 
         | This book also supposedly includes excerpts from his writings,
         | but I didn't check:
         | https://archive.org/details/henrydargerdisas0000darg/
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | A lot of problems like the one you're describing boil down to
         | commercial rather than technical reasons.
        
       | JoeDaDude wrote:
       | An excellent film about his life and work has been made: In the
       | Realms of the Unreal [1]. Oddly not mentioned in the article (or
       | did I miss it?)
       | 
       | [1]. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390123/
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _In the Realms of the Unreal - Henry Darger 's Magnum Opus_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17987678 - Sept 2018 (1
       | comment)
        
       | speff wrote:
       | Fredrik Knudsen did a really nice video covering Henry in his
       | Down The Rabbit Hole series [1]. Would recommend
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjCS_u3Sgpg
        
       | MarcusE1W wrote:
       | "I figure that it's better to be a sucker who makes something
       | than a wise guy who is too cautious to make anything at all."
       | 
       | I really like his quote. Simple, maybe said before in different
       | words, and yet it stops you and makes you think for a moment
       | about yourself.
        
       | timetraveller26 wrote:
       | Henry Darger is one of the most illustrous examples of outsider
       | art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art
       | 
       | He held the same job his entire life as a janitor and yet he
       | created a mystical complex world only know by himself.
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | In the world of software, the closest equivalent to outsider
         | art would probably be TempleOS:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TempleOS
        
           | kazinator wrote:
           | I would say no, and here is my reasoning.
           | 
           | Check the bio. Davis was a skilled programmer with a solid
           | background: a master's degree in electrical engineering from
           | Arizona State, which he earned in 1994, just two years before
           | the documented onset of his mental illness in 1996.
           | 
           | Because of his illness, Davis _himself_ became an outsider,
           | clearly.
           | 
           | But TempleOS isn't any more "outsider art" than any other
           | solo project, like Bill Joy's vi, or Knuth's TeX or what have
           | you.
           | 
           | Also, religious themes aside, the techniques in Temple OS are
           | thoroughly mainstream, full of familiar concepts. The code is
           | understandable to any engineer competent in those areas. (No
           | worse than any other mountain of uncommented code that occurs
           | in our industry, in any case.)
        
           | npteljes wrote:
           | Maybe the mood is similar, but it's not outsider art, Terry
           | frequently published and participated in communication with
           | regards to TempleOS.
        
         | kazinator wrote:
         | There should be no other art, arguably.
         | 
         | What is an "insider" in art? Someone who has a private
         | telephone line to the god of true style?
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | The article hints at that, it basically means he didn't have
           | any formal education in art, little outside influence from
           | established artists, did not get any feedback on his work,
           | did not publish anything on his own; I'm not sure if he ever
           | gave any interviews or context after the works were
           | discovered.
        
             | kazinator wrote:
             | Three-year-old's drawing posted on refrigerator: outsider
             | art or not?
             | 
             | It seems that "outsider art" only really makes sense as
             | "work produced by someone not participating in a certain
             | socio-economic structure that some people have erected in
             | connection with their art-related interests", which is a
             | remark that has no value.
             | 
             | Someone doing "outsider art" is an outsider to something,
             | but that something is not art itself. That socio-economic
             | structure is not art itself. The "outsider art" designation
             | doesn't say anything about the art itself, only the
             | circumstances of one who made it; it is a form of _ad
             | hominem_. There is no such thing as  "outsider art" just
             | like "logical proposition uttered by a known liar" is not
             | actually a real category of logical propositions, like
             | "true proposition".
             | 
             | Art requires no membership in any club, or conformity to
             | any shibboleths. Because art is a basic human expression;
             | it doesn't require education, or discussion or anything
             | else.
             | 
             | "Insider art" is not any more valid than "outsider art",
             | because art doesn't require any conformance to a code. It's
             | not like "outsider residential wiring", where someone who
             | is not a trained and licensed electrician can make a code-
             | violating mess that is unsafe. Becoming part of some
             | millieu in connection with doing art is entirely optional.
             | 
             | The literal interpretation of "outsider art" is
             | nonsensical, like this: "You may have produced a natural
             | smell out of your anus, but since you have no formal
             | education in it, don't follow influences of notable
             | farters, and don't receive feedback on your work from
             | connoiseurs of flatulence, it is 'outsider fart'."
        
           | Applejinx wrote:
           | Community art. Think the Algonquin round table, or Cyberpunk,
           | or Impressionism, etc etc. Very often when something begins
           | to happen, people's social behaviors kick in and they get
           | interested in what they all are doing, and that's where you
           | get movements and styles across multiple artists. They're in
           | a community.
        
           | npteljes wrote:
           | Very simple, if you look at the definition of outsider art.
           | "Insider" would be someone with training in arts, or an
           | artist having art connections while doing their art. Most
           | notable arts are done this way.
        
             | kazinator wrote:
             | That is a someone; but the term in question is "insider
             | art". If that someone makes art, that gets labeled "insider
             | art". Without knowing who made some art, in what
             | circumstances, can we reliably test a work of art to tell
             | whether it is insider art or outsider art?
        
         | ndarray wrote:
         | > Outsider art is an umbrella term for any art made by self-
         | taught individuals who are untrained and untutored in the
         | traditional arts with typically little or no contact with the
         | conventions of the art worlds.
         | 
         | Does this definition even matter when, in order to gain any
         | significant recognition, outsider artists must get noticed and
         | picked up by those same conventionalists of the art world?
        
           | egypturnash wrote:
           | It's useful for sales and promotion. Same as any other genre.
        
           | dfxm12 wrote:
           | In this case "the conventions of the art world" refers more
           | to technical concepts like perspective, composition, color
           | theory, etc. In this way, outsider art is distinguished from
           | naive art. I personally think the distinction is flimsy, but
           | humans do like to create these kinds of taxonomy. Folk art is
           | another similar, but somehow technically different genre of
           | art.
           | 
           | It has less to do with the people in the art world: gallery
           | owners, agents, critics, etc. Artists who meet the definition
           | of outsider artists had their work shown in the traditional
           | way, like Grandma Moses, Horace Pippin, etc.
        
       | agys wrote:
       | If you ever happen to be in Lausanne, Switzerland visit the
       | "Collection de l'Art Brut"...!
       | 
       | https://www.artbrut.ch/fr_CH/auteurs/la-collection-de-l-art-...
        
         | dheavy wrote:
         | THANK YOU!
        
         | scandox wrote:
         | Also you can view The Prinzhorn collection in Heidelberg
         | Germany.
         | 
         | https://www.sammlung-prinzhorn.de/
        
       | markhenderson wrote:
       | Another similar artist that's still alive is Jon Sarkin [1] He
       | has made over 10,000 pieces of outsider art usually drawn on the
       | back of vinyl album covers. He has an archive of work online [2]
       | and is active on instagram [3]
       | 
       | [1] https://jonsarkin.com [2] https://archive.jonsarkin.com [3]
       | https://instagram.com/jonsarkin
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | The artwork comes across as Japanesque.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | What even is "japanesque"? I don't believe that word has any
         | meaning tbh.
        
           | kazinator wrote:
           | Why would anyone harbor a belief that can easily be refuted
           | by dictionaries? I don't get it. ELI5.
        
           | bone_frequency wrote:
           | From the webster entry:
           | 
           | -esque adjective suffix : in the manner or style of : like
           | 
           | A very accesible blog post on how to use it:
           | https://www.grammarly.com/blog/esque/
        
       | el_pollo_diablo wrote:
       | I first learnt about Henry Darger in Olivia Laing's _The Lonely
       | City_. It is a first-hand account of the psychological effects of
       | loneliness and isolation. The author draws parallels between her
       | own experience and that of other artists like Darger, and
       | describes the way in which this experience can drive their
       | creative process.
        
       | aworks wrote:
       | The Center for Intuitive and Outsider Art in Chicago is small but
       | good. I found Darger's art there captivating and disturbing.
       | 
       | https://www.art.org/henrydarger/
        
       | JeremyNT wrote:
       | Much more detail on wikipedia [0]
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Darger
        
       | lvspiff wrote:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vXjwTux8T4 - my intro to Henry
       | Darger which sent me down a rabbit hole on wikipedia
        
       | dfxm12 wrote:
       | _"I figure that it's better to be a sucker who makes something
       | than a wise guy who is too cautious to make anything at all."_
       | 
       | It very much frustrates me seeing professionals too timid to
       | click through wizards on something as inconsequential as
       | installing Word. "OK, it says click here to continue. Should I
       | click there?" Even when mentoring new team members, I'm amazed at
       | how afraid they might be to try something in a test environment
       | where they know it doesn't matter if something goes wrong.
       | Sometimes I think I've gotten as far as I have in life because
       | I'm just not afraid to try, and I don't even think of myself as a
       | risk taker.
       | 
       | I don't care if you think of yourself as a sucker or as a wise
       | guy. Just make the damn thing (even if you're making mistakes).
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-04-04 23:02 UTC)