[HN Gopher] A kinematically coupled, nanometer-resolution piezo ...
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       A kinematically coupled, nanometer-resolution piezo focus stage
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2024-03-31 06:24 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bunniestudios.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bunniestudios.com)
        
       | mhb wrote:
       | Related items of interest:
       | 
       | Dan Gelbart on Flexures:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaypcVFPs48
       | 
       | Design of a kinematic mount:
       | https://practicalprecision.com/kinematic-mount-design/
        
         | javiramos wrote:
         | Dan Gelbart, a great. Adding MIT Alex Slocum's kinematic and
         | flexure design resources:
         | http://pergatory.mit.edu/resources/fundamentals.html
        
         | varjag wrote:
         | Also this video of a JWST-inspired positioning flexure:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MxH1sfJLBQ
        
           | atoav wrote:
           | I had to immidiately think of the JWST as well, the idea
           | being to use basically a compliant mechanism as a lever that
           | turns a big weak movement into a tiny stronger one.
        
         | anymouse123456 wrote:
         | There was also this paper [0] making the rounds in 2022.
         | Ultrahigh precision equipment for hobby level prices makes me
         | super excited to be alive right now.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S246806722...
        
       | aconz2 wrote:
       | I've been enjoying these posts about the IRIS project. I would
       | love to see some quantitative measurements of its performance. If
       | it works for the autofocus purpose, that is great. But I'm
       | skeptical of calling this kinematically coupled or nanometer
       | resolution with vhb taped non spherical balls and no preload. I
       | wouldn't expect that to repeat very well. Also, I'm having a hard
       | time thinking about whether you can actually use the maxwell as a
       | trim/tram table like this, is this known? The piezo's are going
       | to be moving in 3 slightly different axes and surely with some
       | parasitic motion so the ball's position won't stay in radial
       | symmetery. And they have to slide in the groove so there will be
       | stiction. I think a linear stage at 1um would suffice because the
       | correlation between images should be higher
        
         | iancmceachern wrote:
         | Totally, it would be interesting to put an interferometer on
         | this thing
        
       | barfbagginus wrote:
       | I like that it's not a product for regulatory reasons. Now I
       | wonder about the boundaries on "productionizing" open hardware
       | without selling it.
       | 
       | Let's suppose the creator makes it dead simple to make. Solves
       | problems that would tie up any replication effort for months.
       | Replication now takes a week of effort for a pair of hobbyists
       | with a 3d printer, a CNC machine, and a soldering iron. Setup for
       | mass production setup now takes a month for a well appointed
       | electronics factory.
       | 
       | The creator has eliminated all production problems, while
       | skipping all the steps required to earn a revenue.
       | 
       | Does this increase the risk of a cease and desist? After all,
       | G-men might be worried that a foreign power will replicate the
       | tech without paying an American corporation!
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | > Does this increase the risk of a cease and desist? After all,
         | G-men might be worried that a foreign power will replicate the
         | tech without paying an American corporation!
         | 
         | Many of the regulations he talks about aren't related to the
         | United States or corporations at all. We like to poke fun at
         | America, but in my experience it has been much easier to launch
         | physical products in America than many other countries. The
         | blog gives one example of requiring "UKCA" stamped somewhere to
         | deal with some post Brexit thing. Then there's the matter of
         | customs and import issues, which are a nightmare to navigate in
         | many of the various countries you might ship to other than the
         | US.
         | 
         | > The creator has eliminated all production problems, while
         | skipping all the steps required to earn a revenue.
         | 
         | Even with full instructions, production problems would actually
         | be the majority of the work. It's still quite difficult to set
         | up manufacturing for something like this. Furthermore, it's
         | nearly impossible for someone to perfect a manufacturing
         | process and document it without having done the manufacturing
         | and learned from experience.
         | 
         | Finally, the product described isn't actually that novel.
         | Anyone sufficiently motivated and capitalized to set up a
         | manufacturing line would also have the resources to have
         | developed something like this.
         | 
         | The comments in the blog read more like a commentary on the
         | difficulties of low volume product logistics, not a suggestion
         | that "G-men" are trying to crush someone's hobby project so
         | that an American corporation can have more profit.
        
           | barfbagginus wrote:
           | I'm an industrial designer and manufacturing engineer who
           | founded a reverse engineering firm. We use some nice
           | techniques to virtually eliminate defects in our client
           | production streams, even though we have basically no tacit
           | knowledge of their production back ends. What we do
           | understand is our design geometry and its quality metrics.
           | 
           | In our case, simply controlling the quality of our geometry
           | is enough to stamp out defects and rework, which is why our
           | clients use us as a turnkey solution for eliminating design
           | risks.
           | 
           | Those kinds of quality controls and universal productions
           | sims don't get developed for simple open source designs.
           | 
           | So yes I understand that productionizing a design
           | traditionally depends mainly on accruing tacit knowledge.
           | 
           | At the same time I understand also how important quality
           | controls in the design phase are for eliminating rework in
           | the production phase. And we are increasingly able to plan
           | designs that will enter into production flawlessly.
           | 
           | The scenario I'm asking you to envision, therefore, is not
           | this project, but some hypothetical other scenario where the
           | creator really supports larger scale efforts with novel
           | quality controls that have traditionally been too expensive
           | for open source.
           | 
           | I'm also interested in a political scenario where we're
           | designing a purely software weapon, a new drone munition, or
           | other dangerous tech. Let's even suppose we're doing this
           | because we hope it will disrupt for corporations and
           | governments.
           | 
           | The question then remains: when due this kind of work cross
           | into dangerous territory, and incur outside risks. Where are
           | the limits? How much can we expect to "get away with"?
           | 
           | Obviously the answer is "it depends' and "talk to a lawyer".
           | But I'm curious about insights and stories folks might have
           | here.
        
         | TaylorAlexander wrote:
         | I'm doing this process for my open source farming robot [1],
         | though not to dodge any patents I simply want people all over
         | the world to have access to this technology for as cheaply as
         | possible, and someone in Bangalore or Nairobi will be able to
         | get them more cheaply from a local fabricator than from some
         | California company shipping overseas.
         | 
         | https://community.twistedfields.com/t/join-the-solar-farming...
        
           | barfbagginus wrote:
           | This is awesome, and I'm going to look into your project!
           | 
           | I think you're doing it for the right reason. I hope we can
           | get many more of the world's engineers thinking that way in
           | the next decade. And I feel like humanity's future might ride
           | on it!
        
             | TaylorAlexander wrote:
             | Thank you! Yeah I think that "proprietary thinking" is
             | really shooting ourselves in the foot as far as cumulative
             | development of humanity. Community development of 3D
             | printers after the patents expired showed me that
             | proprietary single-organization patent encumbered
             | engineering development is only one way to get critical
             | engineering done, and it has many downsides. A major
             | advantage of community oriented engineering, where you
             | share your designs without restriction, is that people all
             | over the world find ways to contribute to your design. You
             | end up with a better result in the end, and in the process
             | you're lifting potentially billions of people out of
             | poverty. To me it seems like it's just the right thing to
             | do aside from the fact that it provides real material
             | benefit to the people that may have originally produced the
             | ideas. But these concepts are not taught in schools, and
             | there is a minor problem with financial allocation that
             | needs to be solved with for example donations. I think it's
             | an extremely important mode of engineering for humanity to
             | explore!
        
       | rkagerer wrote:
       | _I grew up in a world with fewer trade barriers, and without a
       | DMCA. I remember when we were free to think, travel, and trade,
       | and I liked it. I feel kind of sorry for the youth today, growing
       | up in a world shaped by narratives of safety, fear, and
       | ultimately, control. Also, climate change._
        
       | zh3 wrote:
       | To give an idea how accurately these things can be used, the
       | quantum computer group at the local university use piezo
       | actuators to move their ions around with sub-100nm resolution (to
       | create fast interconnects between quantum chips, for reasons of
       | modularity). Got lucky enough to have a demo/playtime (which
       | involved pushing rubidium ions around a few nanometres at a time)
       | before they went commercial [0] with it. As Feynman said, "plenty
       | of room at the bottom".
       | 
       | [0] https://thequantuminsider.com/2022/11/02/universal-
       | quantum-s...
        
       | crispyambulance wrote:
       | I had always thought that kinematic mounts consisted of the three
       | balls on one side and then on the other side, each ball would
       | rest on a flat, a v-groove, and a cone, respectively.
       | 
       | This design seems to have each ball in its own v-groove. Doesn't
       | that require extraordinary machining precision with each of the
       | three grooves?
        
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       (page generated 2024-03-31 23:01 UTC)