[HN Gopher] Headless, dog-sized robot to patrol Alaska airport t...
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       Headless, dog-sized robot to patrol Alaska airport to prevent bird
       strikes
        
       Author : Brajeshwar
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2024-03-30 14:29 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.sky.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.sky.com)
        
       | darby_eight wrote:
       | Do scarecrows not work anymore? I find it difficult to believe
       | that this is the most cost efficient-way to address the issue. I
       | thought it was at least going to target the birds with high-
       | powered speakers calibrated towards the birds hearing (which
       | again might be easier to deploy in turret form), but this just
       | seems like a joke or a parody of "tech investment" or something.
       | 
       | Granted, this _does_ appear to be the test phase, but I 'd hope
       | there be _some_ evidence this might work before they spend money
       | on it.
        
         | analog31 wrote:
         | I'm just thinking aloud here. Scarecrows might make the pilots
         | freak out too. This thing has to not look like something that
         | doesn't belong near a runway.
        
         | kwhitefoot wrote:
         | Did scarecrows ever work?
        
         | Roark66 wrote:
         | Anyone who has a garden knows scarecrows don't work (more than
         | a couple of days anyway).
         | 
         | Birds are surprisingly smart and they lean very quickly.
        
         | giarc wrote:
         | I agree, seems like overkill especially if you need a person to
         | manage the "dogs". Instead I'd create a track around the
         | airport and have a "dog" like train that just travels along the
         | track autonomously. You could randomize pattern and dog
         | movements so the birds don't get suspicious.
        
       | jacurtis wrote:
       | Seems like a pretty good use case for an automated robot like
       | this. It's nice to see a practical use-case for these advanced
       | autonomous robots that doesn't involve war.
       | 
       | So as I see it, this is like a fancy all-terrain Roomba. They
       | dress it up like a Fox or Coyote and it wanders around and
       | patrols the airport grounds, scaring away birds and generally
       | preventing them from nesting in the area. Birds aren't going to
       | nest in areas with active predators. So if this looks like an
       | active predator making constant patrols, then birds will just go
       | somewhere else to roost.
       | 
       | Ultimately it saves the birds from being killed by planes or
       | euthanized by other means. They are not harmed with this
       | patrolling robo-fox, it just adds intimidation factor.
       | 
       | Presumably, the robot will also be smarter than a Roomba and
       | would know to avoid running onto the runway or other critical
       | areas.
        
         | mock-possum wrote:
         | Betcha it won't take long for the birds to realize the robot is
         | no threat.
        
           | wrycoder wrote:
           | They, and the deer, will tend to be in the runway area to
           | avoid the "dog", which will stay off the runways.
        
           | throwup238 wrote:
           | It doesn't take very much to permanently scare a bird away
           | from a nest they're in the process of building. They're much
           | more sensitive to threats when establishing a nest.
        
             | usrusr wrote:
             | Depends on the species. Ever met pigeons?
        
               | throwup238 wrote:
               | I was actually thinking of pigeons/doves when I wrote
               | that. Every year I get several nests around my property
               | and if I get too close before there are chicks, the
               | pigeons abandon the nest.
               | 
               | I have to carefully track them to figure out which nests
               | belong to mockingbirds and which ones belong to pigeons
               | so I can chase the former away and let the latter do
               | their thing.
        
               | usrusr wrote:
               | Mine were happily doing their thing even while I started
               | the same balcony. Eventually I started sterilizing their
               | eggs by cooking and placing them back (they do leave for
               | a few minutes when actively shooing) and after a few
               | failed clutches they are noticeably less eager to try
               | again in that place.
        
               | throwup238 wrote:
               | Have you tried scaring them away before they lay the eggs
               | or is it the same result? I never noticed eggs in the
               | nests that were abandoned (I would put them in an
               | incubator if I did)
               | 
               | The term "pigeon" refers to the whole _Columbidae_ family
               | with over 300 birds so YMMV. Mine are specifically
               | mourning doves which are different from the pigeons I
               | associate with cities (feral domesticated rock doves)
        
               | eric-burel wrote:
               | In France pigeons are protected and you have to let them
               | nest (more precisely you can't move the nest once it's
               | there and you cannot harm the eggs)
        
           | zh3 wrote:
           | Depends on the bird. I once tried a remote doorbell on a bird
           | table to scare off large birds (pigeons); by about the third
           | press they learnt to ignore it.
           | 
           | In this case could be geese, which seem more cautious (then
           | again if it's corvids, they'll probably figure out how to
           | reprogram the robot).
        
             | AnarchismIsCool wrote:
             | Depends on the season, if it's spring the geese will just
             | kill the robot.
        
           | brippalcharrid wrote:
           | I imagine that for any small-to-medium sized avian a ~100lb
           | robot could very easily become a threat.
        
         | Eric_WVGG wrote:
         | okay but why not, just, use dogs or coyotes
         | 
         | not joking. Dogs can be trained. Coyotes... just set up some
         | feeding pens full of carrion at either side of the airport, and
         | set up some doors that open at intervals (there, scratched that
         | robot itch).
        
           | Tutitk wrote:
           | It is very expensive to train a dog and maintain its
           | training. Like $50k starting price and $20k every year after.
           | 
           | Dogs are incredibly stupid, they like to step in front of
           | moving vehicles. Very bad for airport runways...
        
           | elliottkember wrote:
           | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-QxZv_wJ1aA
           | 
           | Airport bird dogs are already a thing. Seems like a dream job
           | for a dog.
           | 
           | But you need a full-time handler, a car, a kennel, training
           | and eventually a replacement. They can't work 24/7, and if
           | they are out sick for a day the birds are back. Essentially
           | the argument for any kind of automation.
           | 
           | This comment is like looking at a scarecrow, and saying "why
           | not just go and stand out in your field all day?"
           | 
           | And feeding wild coyotes unlimited food, near people, comes
           | with its own set of problems.
        
           | mistrial9 wrote:
           | the noise is way too harsh for dogs at many times of
           | operation?
        
           | jjtheblunt wrote:
           | I mean you can treat the coyotes like dogs on meth,
           | considering they do exist as pets. That is, i thought just
           | what you wrote but with no need to have extra carrion.
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | Perhaps because you don't want planes hitting coyotes on the
           | runway.
           | 
           | You especially don't want to be the person responsible for a
           | dog-strike. Don't mess with the FAA nor the SPCA nor the
           | unions.
        
         | tamimio wrote:
         | It's not autonomous and it is not smart, you are giving a lot
         | of credit for an expensive toy.
        
       | klyrs wrote:
       | Back in my day, they'd just call the Pinkertons
        
       | dumpsterlid wrote:
       | You could definitely train a dog to do this and it would probably
       | have a blast doing it all day.
       | 
       | Not enough dog investors pushing dog-tech hype though. It is a
       | shame though, have you ever read about what their noses can do??
        
         | aerostable_slug wrote:
         | There are few robot welfare advocates complaining about robots
         | doing what dogs love to do, though. Nobody is going to say
         | robo-fido is being exposed to carcinogens or loud noises while
         | it (merrily?) chases off birds.
        
         | pelagic_sky wrote:
         | Many airports in the states already employ full time dogs to
         | clear birds.
        
       | imglorp wrote:
       | This appears to be a stock Spot with a paint job and some mission
       | specific code?
       | 
       | https://bostondynamics.com/products/spot/
        
         | wcoenen wrote:
         | This Anchorage Daily article confirms that it's a Spot robot.
         | The first image caption mentions Boston Dynamics. They just
         | named this individual robot "Aurora".
         | 
         | https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2024/03/27/alaskas-new-robot...
        
       | wyldfire wrote:
       | The photo from the article shows a pilot with controls (or
       | technician with a monitor?). How autonomous is the robot?
        
         | tamimio wrote:
         | Because it is not autonomous, it's RC controlled. As long as
         | you don't see special sensors like lidars or cams, assume it's
         | not, and glad the article showed the guy too for the
         | transparency.
        
           | TaylorAlexander wrote:
           | I see at least 11 sensors in the top two photos of the
           | article including 8 or 9 sensors on the front face of the
           | robot and three sensors on the rear side mid body forward of
           | the hind leg, which I assume is duplicated on the other side,
           | so maybe 15 external sensors at least.
           | 
           | I also did photo journalism in college and these photos are
           | from an AP News photographer. One of the things I learned in
           | journalism class is to always try to get a person in your
           | photo, as it helps humanize the story. So it may be an
           | autonomous capable robot they showed in R/C mode for
           | journalistic interest.
        
       | handsclean wrote:
       | This seems far from the best way to accomplish the goal, and has
       | been turned into a big photo op, which to me comes across as a
       | probable discount for publicity trade, indicating Boston Dynamics
       | being surprisingly desperate for real world use cases. For all
       | the progress in autonomous robots, maybe they're actually in a
       | sort of uncanny valley of generalization: more general than
       | previously possible, but not general enough to unlock most tasks
       | that previously couldn't be automated.
        
         | TulliusCicero wrote:
         | What is with these weirdly conspiratorial comments?
         | 
         | A company sells their product for money to a government agency,
         | and somehow this makes them "surprisingly desperate". Dude,
         | they're not having the robot strip on the weekends as a side
         | gig.
        
           | rrr_oh_man wrote:
           | _> Dude, they 're not having the robot strip on the weekends
           | as a side gig._
           | 
           | Beautiful.
        
           | handsclean wrote:
           | If you really think not taking product news at face value is
           | conspiratorial, you're far too trusting. The transactions I'm
           | theorizing here are very common and not illegal.
           | 
           | "Surprisingly desperate" seems to not be coming across as I
           | intended, I meant only that it's surprising that a product
           | that should sell itself is instead searching for use cases,
           | as weakly evidenced by this article but more strongly
           | evidenced by their many past pivots without significant
           | adoption.
        
         | stephendause wrote:
         | What are more cost-effective ways of accomplishing the same
         | goal?
        
           | tamimio wrote:
           | Real dogs.
        
       | polar8 wrote:
       | Instead of a dog-sized robot, why not use a... dog?
        
         | tamimio wrote:
         | How else they are going to milk millions of funds?! Throw in
         | some buzz words and cool looking robots, welcome to the
         | robotics industry!
        
       | ThinkBeat wrote:
       | Why not use real dogs? They are really good at this.
        
       | _qua wrote:
       | Purely as a piece of photography that second photo is very cool
       | with the sharp focus and the snow in the air.
        
         | TaylorAlexander wrote:
         | Ah yeah that one is nice! I did photo journalism in college and
         | always appreciate good journalism photos.
        
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