[HN Gopher] Simon Riggs has died
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Simon Riggs has died
        
       Author : ajdude
       Score  : 803 points
       Date   : 2024-03-29 08:08 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (m6n.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (m6n.io)
        
       | wendyshu wrote:
       | He was a "major contributor" according to
       | https://www.postgresql.org/community/contributors/
        
         | filleduchaos wrote:
         | There's also a statement here:
         | https://www.postgresql.org/about/news/remembering-simon-rigg...
        
         | YetAnotherNick wrote:
         | His contributions include:
         | 
         | > Point in Time Recovery, Table Partitioning, Hot Standby, Sync
         | Replication, focuses on enterprise issues, security,
         | performance and scalability, business intelligence and
         | replication/high availability.
        
           | rmbyrro wrote:
           | Those are hell of big contributions.
           | 
           | It'd be worth billions if Postgres was a greed-driven
           | enterprise (like Redis, Elastic, Mongo). And this value is
           | now available and enjoyed by everyone on Earth.
        
       | politelemon wrote:
       | > and the British, as a rule, don't do to-go portions from a
       | restaurant.
       | 
       | This isn't true at all.
        
         | arghwhat wrote:
         | If it's anything like Denmark, it's just that nobody local ever
         | does it, and so we never learn that it is an option.
         | 
         | Then we suddenly see a foreigner do it and wonder what _other_
         | options we 've missed and start to wish life came with a
         | manual.
        
           | mock-possum wrote:
           | One of the somewhat delightful things I've learned as an
           | adult is - you can just ask people for anything, and they'll
           | do it, much more often than you might think.
        
             | renegade-otter wrote:
             | Shamelessness is a superpower :)
        
             | swexbe wrote:
             | People will even start to like you more for it!
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Franklin_effect
        
               | hooo wrote:
               | I had never heard of this- thanks for linking!
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | I remember the time I was at the Ocha on Embarcadero in
             | downtown SF and I saw some older VC type guy order his
             | shrimp pad thai with no tails.
             | 
             | My mind was blown and my life changed forever. Now I order
             | french onion soup without the onions (high end steakhouses
             | are happy to strain it), shrimp tempura rolls with no
             | tails, whatever. I order my salmon nigiri with no skin.
             | I'll order sides of sauces from other menu items I didn't
             | get.
             | 
             | It's rare they don't accommodate me. (Before you ask, I
             | always tip super well and don't ever mind an upcharge for a
             | special side sauce or whatever.)
        
               | pests wrote:
               | You are paying them! I still struggle with customizations
               | and usually like to try things as envisioned by the chef,
               | but some food textures I just can't do.
               | 
               | Unless it's a place with a certain vision/theme/morals or
               | artsy food, they just want to make you happy.
        
           | pests wrote:
           | So true.
           | 
           | I used to drink a lot of pop/soda. When I initially cut back
           | I stopped buying two liters for the house and only drank when
           | eating out or the like. It always shocked my table mates to
           | see me asking for a to-go cup for my drink.
           | 
           | But now I see those same people getting their drinks to go
           | too, especially after the lockdowns and everywhere was
           | offering curbside drinks.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | For Danes, half the experience of a meal is the presentation.
           | They would not want to eat an already half-eaten meal out of
           | a styrofoam box.
        
             | arghwhat wrote:
             | As a Dane from central Copenhagen, I'm not sure where you'd
             | get that idea from.
             | 
             | While most would agree that fresh food tastes better
             | (unless it's pizza, that jury is out on that one), that
             | doesn't mean we're too posh for the looks of leftovers. A
             | good portion of our food is also quite boring, and the most
             | common takeaway comes pretty crudely presented and
             | packaged. If we only ate food in fancy presentation, we'd
             | all have starved to death by now.
             | 
             | The reason I don't eat half-eaten meals is because I never
             | half-eat meals in the first place. I order the amount of
             | food I want to/can eat, and should that plan fail, I share
             | with my tablemate(s) - although I tend to be the recipient
             | on that one. We don't do it because we fear taking a crime-
             | scene with us home in the form of a haphazardly filled
             | styrofoam box like _poor_ people, but just because it seems
             | polite and proper to both size your mail right and try
             | finish it. That, and that we didn 't know that taking it
             | with us home was even an option in the first place.
        
         | IanCal wrote:
         | I've only ever seen this done once here.
        
           | robin_reala wrote:
           | I've only ever seen it done in pizza places that already have
           | takeaway boxes available.
        
             | Symbiote wrote:
             | Pizza places are also one of the few places in Europe where
             | the portion is often too large.
             | 
             | Otherwise I think the rare occasion where someone requests
             | it is when a younger child has hardly touched their meal.
        
             | diggan wrote:
             | > I've only ever seen it done in pizza places that already
             | have takeaway boxes available.
             | 
             | Most, if not all, restaurants have something they can drop
             | leftovers into if you ask for it.
             | 
             | As someone who lives in Spain but is Swedish, I've never
             | had any restaurant tell me "we don't have takeaway boxes"
             | or "no, we won't do that" when asking to take my leftovers
             | with me, neither in Spain or Sweden or any other country
             | I've visited.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | It is completely true. People do it _very_ occasionally, but
         | not like in America.
        
         | egeozcan wrote:
         | In Germany, particularly in Hesse from what I've experienced,
         | restaurant staff might take offense if you eat less than half
         | of your meal and refuse to have the leftovers packed up. Just
         | last week, a restaurant in Giessen went above and beyond by
         | including an extra bowl of fruit salad alongside the remainder
         | of our meal. That, I will remember a long time, especially
         | after my wife's startling reaction to discovering a kiwi in the
         | package - she's terrified of the fruit for some reason :)
        
           | Archelaos wrote:
           | I can confirm that. The cultural attitude in Germany is that
           | food should not be wasted. One of my favourite cafe bars in
           | Heidelberg, when it closes, gives away the unsold pastries to
           | the people who are still there -- sometimes a whole bag full.
        
             | MandieD wrote:
             | There are still a lot of Germans around who remember not
             | having enough to eat as children in the late 40s. Yes,
             | their parents had done, or at least allowed, terrible
             | things, but they were children. Meat was especially in
             | short supply, and my 85 year old aunt-in-law is pretty sure
             | they had rat a few times.
             | 
             | So my elderly German in-laws would be horrified with how
             | casually my Texan ones will buy and grill large, expensive
             | slabs of beef, and end up throwing out a good deal of it
             | because it was way more than the bunch could eat. I am,
             | anyway, but have learned to bite my tongue.
        
               | gregors wrote:
               | Can confirm, my parents grew up starving in the ashes of
               | WW2. My mother hid canned food under her bed, in her
               | closets, everywhere for all of her life. It always
               | annoyed me and when I'd ask her about it she always
               | answered the same, "I hope you never know what it's like
               | to starve".
        
         | alex_duf wrote:
         | In the UK, I never have seen it done or done it myself
         | especially compared to when I lived in North America where it
         | was standard.
        
         | jayceedenton wrote:
         | Yes it is. Asking your waiter to wrap up the rest of your food
         | to go almost never happens in the UK.
         | 
         | Maybe this is creeping in due to seeing Americans doing this in
         | movies. You start to realise how people cope with those huge
         | portions sizes in the US. Many people don't eat everything in
         | one sitting.
         | 
         | It's hard to explain why we don't do it in the UK. We generally
         | assume that packaging is not free so therefore wouldn't expect
         | someone to give free takeaway boxes. Also, like almost
         | everything cultural in the UK, I expect it is rooted in class
         | snobbery. If you need to take away, maybe this indicates that
         | you're poor and need to make a meal last. These aren't
         | conscious prejudices, they're relics of the past and
         | subconscious.
        
           | lnxg33k1 wrote:
           | As italian, this kills me, what if there's leftover? The
           | restaurant just throws it away? Food? For class snobbery?
           | Like the restaurant can't reuse it, no? So it's just thrown
           | away?
        
             | CogitoCogito wrote:
             | I assume people would just adapt to the culture by
             | generally not ordering more than they will eat.
        
               | Dalewyn wrote:
               | That's kind of tedious to do when a single menu item here
               | in America is usually, to describe it aptly, _infamously
               | yuuuuuge_.
        
               | CogitoCogito wrote:
               | We're not talking about America, we're talking about the
               | UK.
        
               | Dalewyn wrote:
               | Apologies, the original story was about Simon getting
               | overwhelmed by American servings so that context stuck.
        
               | lnxg33k1 wrote:
               | If anything, it shows us that life is short, and can end
               | at any moment, and maybe we shouldn't fill it with non-
               | problems, like calculating the size of the food we order
               | in order to don't have to take it away .-.
        
               | Jochim wrote:
               | Outside of fine dining/small plates, portion sizes are
               | fairly large in the UK if you're planning on eating three
               | courses.
        
               | pjc50 wrote:
               | Indeed - this goes along with other cultural values of
               | clearing your plate and not wasting food. Some pubs offer
               | "senior" portions for adults who don't eat much.
               | 
               | It is definitely rare, but not completely unheard of;
               | more common if you're in a sitdown place that also does
               | takeaway/delivery. I've done it a few times. One
               | memorable incident was in Bradford where we arrived late
               | at a curry house after interminable faffing around, were
               | all extremely hungry, ordered more than we usually would,
               | and halfway through the starters and giant naan realized
               | that we'd overdone it. Think we got more than one meal
               | out of the _leftovers_.
        
               | lnxg33k1 wrote:
               | Leftovers happen (semiquote)
        
               | znpy wrote:
               | Very bland reply.
               | 
               | Portion sizes vary by restaurant, and also you're not
               | always the same level of hungry.
               | 
               | Just yesterday i tried a new restaurant, the meal was
               | delicious and the portions were unexpectedly large (and i
               | had a single dish, a single course).
               | 
               | I happily took the leftovers away.
        
               | CogitoCogito wrote:
               | What's your point? That there might sometimes be
               | leftovers even if you plan to finish it? So what? People
               | also take left overs home and sometimes never eat them.
               | It could very well be the case that places that don't
               | send home boxed leftovers result in less overall waste
               | than places that do. Especially when you consider the
               | boxes sent home as well.
               | 
               | No system is perfect and a culture of taking home
               | leftovers does not necessarily reduce waste overall.
        
               | rovr138 wrote:
               | > I assume people would just adapt to the culture by
               | generally not ordering more than they will eat.
               | 
               | How do you adapt and order less than 1 thing?
        
               | CogitoCogito wrote:
               | Is this a serious question? Order the smaller food items?
        
               | diggan wrote:
               | Restaurants are sometimes OK with splitting a dish in
               | two/half if you ask nicely. Sometimes I do this for lunch
               | when I'm not very hungry, and can't remember a single
               | time someone said no.
        
               | hk__2 wrote:
               | > No system is perfect and a culture of taking home
               | leftovers does not necessarily reduce waste overall.
               | 
               | Well not being able to take home leftovers does increase
               | waste, because as others have pointed out there will
               | always be cases where you will have leftovers, no matter
               | how careful you are.
        
               | CogitoCogito wrote:
               | I'll explain why this is not necessarily true. If you are
               | able to take home leftovers, there is less incentive not
               | to end up with leftovers. Hence the amount of leftovers
               | should _increase_ as a whole. Some of those leftovers
               | will be left in the restaurant by customer choice
               | (resulting in waste) and some will be taken home. Some of
               | the food taken home will not be eaten which then also
               | will become waste.
               | 
               | So the question as to which system results in less waste
               | boils down to a question that must be answered
               | experimentally.
               | 
               | Reducing waste on a societal level is complex. Cultural
               | practices of restaurants boxing food to take away may
               | result in less waste but it may also result in more
               | waste.
        
               | hk__2 wrote:
               | > If you are able to take home leftovers, there is less
               | incentive not to end up with leftovers
               | 
               | I feel that having leftovers is never desiderable, with
               | or without the ability to take them home. In France the
               | restaurants are obligated to allow you to take leftovers
               | home, and in my experience this has not changed anything
               | on the behavior of people eating in restaurants. The only
               | thing that changes is that in the rare case in which you
               | have leftovers, you can take them home.
        
               | ric2b wrote:
               | I regularly ask the waiter how large is the plate or if
               | they do half-plate (quite common) if I'm not feeling very
               | hungry.
               | 
               | If they don't do half-plate and the plates are large I
               | might ask around the table if someone wants to split or
               | take a portion of mine.
        
             | paganel wrote:
             | You're not going to eat re-heated food that you've had at
             | the restaurant a few hours prior, no-one who cares about
             | food ever does (unless you're an American, maybe).
        
               | defrost wrote:
               | This sub thread is filled with many examples of non
               | Americans happy to take uneaten leftovers for later - it
               | varies by country and culture.
               | 
               | > no-one who cares about food ever does
               | 
               | That's a bit universal for what's simply your _opinion_.
        
               | paganel wrote:
               | Even if they're non-Americans, this is a verily heavily
               | American-influenced forum so the people here most
               | probably have more American habits compared to the
               | average people in their countries.
               | 
               | > That's a bit universal for what's simply your opinion.
               | 
               | Yes, and that's a feature, not a bug, we're here to share
               | our opinions, this is not a peer-reviewed forum.
               | 
               | With all that said, I still cannot understand how come a
               | person who says he/she cares about food could eat re-
               | heated takeaway stuff (supposedly at the microwave, which
               | makes it double yuck-y).
        
               | hk__2 wrote:
               | > Yes, and that's a feature, not a bug, we're here to
               | share our opinions, this is not a peer-reviewed forum
               | 
               | If it's your opinion, you may want to introduce it with
               | "Personally, I would never ..." instead of writing "no-
               | one who cares about food ever does", which is obviously
               | false.
               | 
               | > With all that said, I still cannot understand how come
               | a person who says he/she cares about food could eat re-
               | heated takeaway stuff (supposedly at the microwave, which
               | makes it double yuck-y).
               | 
               | There are other ways to re-heat food, you can mix with
               | other things, you can also eat it cold if that's your
               | thing. It's also not just about caring about food, it's
               | also caring about money: when you eat your leftovers, you
               | don't have to pay for new food.
        
           | justinclift wrote:
           | > ... almost never happens in the UK.
           | 
           | Maybe it's a regional thing?
           | 
           | Seemed to be fairly common in London when I lived there for a
           | few years.
        
             | jjgreen wrote:
             | ... about to post the same, particularly in curry places
             | ...
        
             | dfawcus wrote:
             | Look up the demographics of London.
             | 
             | It is an exception compared to the rest of the UK.
        
           | vr46 wrote:
           | You're definitely not speaking about the UK as a whole, this
           | is completely normal and rooted in not wanting to waste food.
        
             | Fluorescence wrote:
             | The wasteful step is to order more food than you will eat.
             | Someone not finishing their meal is what I don't recognise.
             | If someone has a small appetite I am used to them enquiring
             | about portion size and arranging to split dishes with
             | others rather than expect to bag up an excess. There are
             | always people keen to get their hands on anything going
             | spare anyway.
             | 
             | I only see it happen if someone falls ill, is called away
             | or there was an error in the order e.g. you manage to order
             | four entire chickens instead of four portions.
        
               | hk__2 wrote:
               | This whole discussion feels like "why would you need
               | debuggers, you should not introduce bugs anyway". Even if
               | you are careful you will eventually end up in a situation
               | with leftovers; it may be your fault, but it may also be
               | the restaurant's fault.
        
               | fingerlocks wrote:
               | But why is it wasteful if you intend to eat a portion of
               | your dinner for tomorrow's lunch? All the food is
               | eventually eaten.
               | 
               | Is it because a small paper box is involved? Would you
               | find it less obscene if everyone carried a reusable food
               | container with them to a restaurant to mitigate the risk
               | of offensive boxed leftovers?
        
               | vr46 wrote:
               | Not really, because different people are different. Some
               | may not have the capacity to eat fewer large portions -
               | like me - and eat less, more frequently.
               | 
               | Many people eat more than they need to at any given time,
               | that is arguably greedy and argubably wasteful in a
               | different way.
               | 
               | Portion sizes are static, appetites vary, letting people
               | manage for themselves is perfectly fine.
        
           | gbuk2013 wrote:
           | No it's not - we've done this many times in London in all
           | sorts of places, chains, small restaurants and even a very
           | fancy restaurant (the waiters there looked positively happy
           | when we asked).
           | 
           | We don't do it often only because we don't over-order as a
           | general rule (c.f. my wife's Chinese family in Canada who
           | over-order every time we go out and take whatever is left
           | home).
        
           | michaelt wrote:
           | _> If you need to take away, maybe this indicates that you
           | 're poor and need to make a meal last._
           | 
           | I'd say it's the other way around: The British norm of eating
           | everything on your plate was traditionally to avoid food
           | waste.
           | 
           | And even though supermarket food is incredibly cheap these
           | days, the norm is maintained by parents who want their
           | children to eat their vegetables.
           | 
           | So Brits rarely see one another asking for to-go boxes even
           | though many restaurants will offer them for free.
        
           | Jochim wrote:
           | This simply isn't true anymore. Even pre-covid, many
           | restaurants were delivering food and it was becoming normal
           | to box up leftovers.
           | 
           | I've had upmarket steakhouses offer to box up my remaining
           | food despite them not offering delivery.
        
           | petepete wrote:
           | Also this anecdote is from 2006, nearly twenty years ago. It
           | definitely wasn't popular then and now is only likely in
           | certain types of establishment (probably places that do
           | deliveries).
        
           | Reason077 wrote:
           | > _" Asking your waiter to wrap up the rest of your food to
           | go almost never happens in the UK."_
           | 
           | It happens, I've done it. Certainly at pizza restaurants and
           | such where we've over-ordered. It's easy to chuck half a
           | pizza or whatever in a takeaway box, and they're always happy
           | to do so.
           | 
           | It's just less common in the UK because meals generally
           | aren't so oversized like they can be in the US. In the UK we
           | usually order what we can eat. If there's food left on my
           | plate, it's because it didn't taste good and I don't want it.
        
             | fingerlocks wrote:
             | The meals aren't actually oversized in the US, they are
             | serving you 2 or 3 meals when you order. Nobody expects you
             | to eat all of that food in one sitting. Many restaurants
             | even place the to-go containers on your table without
             | asking because it's culturally ingrained.
        
           | lowercased wrote:
           | > You start to realise how people cope with those huge
           | portions sizes in the US. Many people don't eat everything in
           | one sitting.
           | 
           | Yep. It conflicts with the "clean your plate!" mentality many
           | kids were brought up with, but realizing that a meal you buy
           | is often really enough for two meals and that it's OK to take
           | some back with you can help both your weight and your wallet.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | > It's hard to explain why we don't do it in the UK
           | 
           | Due to various factors, we can't afford to make more food for
           | that price. So we charge the same (or more) for less food on
           | the plate compared to other countries.
           | 
           | > Also, like almost everything cultural in the UK, I expect
           | it is rooted in class snobbery. If you need to take away,
           | maybe this indicates that you're poor and need to make a meal
           | last. These aren't conscious prejudices, they're relics of
           | the past and subconscious.
           | 
           | This is just you having a hammer and everything looking like
           | a nail. If you're shamefully poor, you're not eating out at
           | all. Cheap takeaway food like fish and chips is definitely
           | not shameful, and people of all socioeconomic classes eat it.
        
           | politelemon wrote:
           | > It's hard to explain why we don't do it in the UK
           | 
           | I wonder if you're assuming I'm not from the UK, I am. I've
           | seen it regularly, across strata. You are not speaking for
           | the entire nation.
           | 
           | Clearly (judging by the mixed comments where some say it's
           | not common, and some say it is) this is a regional thing, but
           | the assumption being made in that thread, and your comment,
           | is untrue.
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | I do it -- 'please put that meat in a container for me' --
           | and have for a couple of decades. But then I rarely can
           | afford to go out and most places provide normal portions you
           | finish in one sitting.
        
           | _joel wrote:
           | I do it all the time, mainly to keep for the dog. I was asked
           | this week at a pizza place if I wanted to take the rest home
           | too. I don't think it's as uncommon as you think.
        
         | KingOfCoders wrote:
         | In Germany it is also not common, but some people do it (like
         | my mother)
        
         | ergonaught wrote:
         | Dude dies and y'all are talking about to-go portions.
        
           | jll29 wrote:
           | So now we have covered PostgreSQL and food waste, how about
           | the topic of avoiding small aircraft for transportation
           | (because they are so much more risky compared to larger
           | commercial aircraft)?
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatalities_from_aviati.
           | ..
        
             | whelp_24 wrote:
             | He was the sole occupant, and he was doing touch and gos
             | (ie practice) not transportation.
        
           | politelemon wrote:
           | The original posted thread is talking about it, and making a
           | sweeping generalization, I am commenting on that
           | generalization.
        
         | robertlagrant wrote:
         | > This isn't true at all.
         | 
         | It is. Go somewhere like South Africa where you expect with
         | most meals to have a takeaway box, as there's so much food. We
         | might do it, especially if we have kids with us, but it's not
         | something after basically every meal.
        
           | sgt wrote:
           | Then we put it in the fridge, never to be eaten.
        
             | robertlagrant wrote:
             | True :) That's why South Africans have US-style double
             | fridges. To store uneaten restaurant food.
        
         | gwd wrote:
         | A few years ago my family went to a pub / Thai restaurant, and
         | the portions were larger than we were expecting. I asked the
         | owner if he could put the leftover food in a box for me to take
         | away; he said, "Sorry, I can't do that -- what if you took it
         | home and then got sick?" I knew that they also did take-away;
         | so I countered, "Could you give me a box and then forget about
         | it?" He smiled and got me some take-away boxes, then left so he
         | wouldn't see what I did with them.
         | 
         | So, it was sufficiently unusual that I had to be creative to
         | make it happen.
        
         | kitd wrote:
         | _As a rule_ ... it decidedly is. Yes, it can be done, but the
         | overwhelming majority of time, it isn 't,
        
         | jnsie wrote:
         | I was surprised he'd never been to a chain restaurant. They're
         | not exactly lacking in the UK or Western Europe in general...
        
       | west0n wrote:
       | PostgreSQL is a very unique community compared to other database
       | community(MySQL, Redis, MongoDB, ClickHouse et.c). It is INDEED
       | decentralized, which means NO single company control it. This is
       | related to the style of PostgreSQL's primary maintainers and
       | leaders, who have ensured that the project's decisions and
       | direction are determined collectively by the community members,
       | rather than being controlled by a single company. Hopefully,
       | their departure will not change this aspect.
        
         | ergonaught wrote:
         | Wow
        
         | cqqxo4zV46cp wrote:
         | Design by committee has downsides. Let's not put Postgres'
         | development practices on a pedestal.
        
           | jeltz wrote:
           | Design by committee is not really common in the PostgreSQL
           | community. Instead people just work on whatever they or their
           | employer wants to. Makes having a roadmap or cohesive plan
           | impossible but the issues of design by committee rarely show
           | up.
        
           | ngrilly wrote:
           | PostgreSQL's development never looked like design by
           | committee.
        
           | acdha wrote:
           | Postgres is one of the top open source projects of all time.
           | That doesn't mean everything is perfect with no room for
           | improvement but almost anyone could learn from what's worked
           | there.
        
         | fieldcny wrote:
         | This is how ALL open source used to be! Like literally ALL,
         | this is the norm not this bullshit VC funded fremium
         | restricted/tiered fuck the customer trap nonsense.
         | 
         | People built things because they loved it and wanted to help
         | others , not to get rich. Now everyone just wants to get rich,
         | and fast.
        
           | planb wrote:
           | While I agree with your sentiment, maintaining software like
           | postgreSQL is a full time job. But your last sentence seems
           | to apply to everything on the internet lately. People used to
           | do podcasts, create guitar tabs or publish cooking recipes
           | because it was their hobby and they wanted others to
           | participate. Now everything seems about making money.
        
             | rglullis wrote:
             | People would do these things for free because they had a
             | stable job which guaranteed their material needs. Now every
             | type of job can be automated and done better/cheaper by a
             | machine, people will be forced to "monetize" everything
             | that exists unless we get a literal revolution in how we
             | tax and distribute the produced wealth.
        
               | xcrunner529 wrote:
               | The jobs we're talking about here, podcasting,
               | development, etc aren't jobs where everyone is forced
               | out. Everyone is just more into making money these days
               | and decide they want to make money doing those things
               | rather than just fun. Let's not try making excuses.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | You are getting at it backwards. People are doing
               | podcasts about investing, cooking, music production,
               | <anything> because even those careers are being automated
               | away and the money that they could be getting _working_
               | is going away.
               | 
               | Even Software Engineers: take all the swaths of engineers
               | who were productive but didn't want / didn't make to a
               | FAANG company and now are having to compete in a world
               | where most companies can replace a lot of the people they
               | don't need a team of 8 engineers because their team of 4
               | now can have Co-Pilot and most of their "middle
               | management" roles could be effectively replaced by some
               | cheap, off-the-shelf SaaS.
               | 
               | I'm literally in this scenario. I'm too old to be
               | interested in competing with someone who is 20 years
               | younger than me but can call themselves a "programmer",
               | and whatever knowledge/experience I have can be had at a
               | fraction of my "cost" by using a commodified service that
               | automates a process. So, what is left for me? Either I
               | need to go downmarket and work for "programmer" jobs
               | (further increasing the supply and lowering salaries) or
               | I need to find someone who is willing to invest in my
               | "idea for a startup" (thus getting into the Silicon-
               | Valley way of life), or I need to find a way to take my
               | unique experience and repackage as something of value -
               | and then get to be called "greedy" by people like you.
               | 
               | By the way, may I interest you in becoming a customer of
               | my not-yet VC funded company (https://communick.com)
               | and/or join the people sponsoring me for $4/month for my
               | Fediverse work
               | (https://github.com/sponsors/mushroomlabs)?
        
               | simion314 wrote:
               | I do not believe you can replace a competent developer
               | with an AI, or say you have 2 and replace them with 1 dev
               | and 1 AI.
               | 
               | You can't just type in ChatGPT something like "write me
               | GTA5" and you get running code, just seen today an
               | example of someone complaining that he asked soemthing
               | like "Create a website in PHP for a company that does X"
               | and they were expecting that by magic a website will just
               | appear.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | Aside from clueless people on Elance and upwork, no one
               | goes to a developer and says "write me GTA5" or "make a
               | website in PHP that does X", either.
               | 
               | What AI will do is leverage productivity of the
               | individuals. Any new story will have its complexity
               | reduced because the developer will be to use the existing
               | codebase and say "hey, our current code is connecting
               | with Foobar via the Zoberg SDK, now we are adding a
               | customer that uses the BazBah platform and they need to
               | change the order flow for 'deliver on payment' to
               | 'deliver on invoice sent'. Show me what changes are
               | needed to make this happen, and please write the
               | integration tests to make sure that we are not breaking
               | things from existing customers"
               | 
               | This goes from a one week task that will require three
               | hour-long to something that can be done in an afternoon,
               | reviewed by the developer and (most importantly) _cheap
               | to throw away if the original requirements change_.
        
               | simion314 wrote:
               | Does this work today? I guess it might be able to write
               | tests but does the rest just work? In my experience the
               | AI
               | 
               | - uses bad code practices because there is more bad code
               | on the internet then good
               | 
               | - hallucinates APIs , so it tells you to use X but X does
               | not exist in the library/framework you asked for
               | 
               | - suggests wrong solution
               | 
               | - if your language is not precise it gives you the answer
               | to the wrong thing, like you see the answer and you
               | realize it did not understand you
               | 
               | In my experience if your developers are 20% more
               | productive you do not fire 20% of them because there
               | always is a big backlog of features or bugs to be
               | handled.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | One of the reasons that I didn't drop out of college
               | (almost 25 years ago) was because I was working part-time
               | proofreading (and occasional translating tech manuals)
               | for a translator who used to get about $25 per 1000
               | "touches". It could be good money for an experienced
               | translator, but nowadays it's a dead profession outside
               | of legal documents who need a certified notary.
               | 
               | Google's automatic translation was not good enough at the
               | beginning to replace the translator's job, but by the
               | time I was already graduated it was good enough for her
               | to not need my proofreading and it was good enough for
               | her to effectively get 60% of the job done. She has then
               | effectively become the proofreader for a bad translator.
               | 
               | And nowadays, the bad translator is good enough to the
               | point where _her customers_ can just throw the original
               | document on Google and do themselves the proofreading.
               | 
               | This is what will happen with programming tools. Code
               | generation tools are still just at the "smart
               | autocomplete" stage and the experienced programmer is
               | still needed to act as reviewers, but as AI gets better,
               | it will be cheaper to drop the "professional expert"
               | altogether and let someone with tangential knowledge
               | (maybe a product manager) in charge.
        
               | simion314 wrote:
               | People still complain that machine translated Japanese is
               | garbage so I bet will be the same with programming, some
               | easy tass will be automated, complex stuff will be still
               | done by humans with experience and understanding of the
               | domain.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | - There is not that much "complex" stuff going around for
               | all the people that will be looking for a job in the
               | field.
               | 
               | - what you call "garbage" might be someone else's "good
               | enough for my needs". If I can go to Japan and a "
               | garbage translator" still is enough for me to help
               | navigate the city or poorly talk to a shopkeeper, then
               | it's mission accomplished and I don't need to worry about
               | a local guide.
               | 
               | - lots of "complex stuff" are dependent on context, and
               | can be made less complex if we relax one single design
               | constraint. E.g, centralized social media networks have a
               | strong requirement for not losing user data. Distributed
               | systems solve this by (a) duplicating data between every
               | node and (b) letting it be deleted by users and node
               | operators who do not want to have the data stored for
               | long term.
               | 
               | It seems to me that you believe that what most software
               | engineers is some dark magic that only a select few can
               | master. It really isn't. The whole "software is eating
               | the world" essay never mentioned what was going to happen
               | after it ran of out of things to eat, now it is kind of
               | obvious that it will gladly get into cannibalism.
        
               | berniedurfee wrote:
               | It's less automation and more about cheap labor. Content
               | farms sprung up and flooded the landscape with worthless
               | content to get a micro-slice of the pie.
               | 
               | Very discouraging to many content creators when their
               | work is just going to be buried in SEO chaff.
               | 
               | Also, the automation wave is just beginning. Soon the
               | human run content farms will be overwhelmed by AI created
               | crap.
               | 
               | This is likely to happen in software as well. Every
               | product will need to compete with some AI generated piece
               | of garbage that's barely passable functionally, but being
               | sold at a fraction of the cost.
               | 
               | Fun times!
        
           | cjk2 wrote:
           | 100% agree on this. Ansible sell out and Hashicorp are fine
           | examples of this.
        
           | manish_gill wrote:
           | What's wrong with trying to get rich? Please explain.
        
             | rmbyrro wrote:
             | Just tell everyone you're dealing with that your primary
             | purpose is getting rich with the software.
             | 
             | Don't tell them you have always been and always will be
             | open source, just until you're big and give the middle
             | finger to OSS in order to get richer.
        
               | endisneigh wrote:
               | A given piece of open source code when licensed _is_
               | always open source. Changing the license doesn't
               | retroactively do so for the previous code.
               | 
               | There is no lie.
        
               | iamtedd wrote:
               | No. No no no. Don't weasel-word out of this with bullshit
               | technicalities.
               | 
               | The phrase isn't "FooBar v3.11 is free and always will
               | be".
               | 
               | There is no version number in the phrase, so the common
               | understanding is that the product and every version of
               | that product will always be free.
        
               | endisneigh wrote:
               | lol. If it helps you cope, imagine the company died,
               | another company forked it with a new license.
               | 
               | Same thing, same result. We are literally discussing this
               | in a thread where a prominent maintainer died. Nothing is
               | forever.
               | 
               | There is no way to guarantee something will be the same
               | forever.
               | 
               | Again, fork and move on if things change to your
               | dissatisfaction.
        
               | rmbyrro wrote:
               | You apparently are not familiar with the concept of
               | software maintenance, upgrade, security patches. Or
               | completely ignored it when wrote this comment.
        
           | endisneigh wrote:
           | Yeah man, screw the VCs! That's why we're communicating
           | through an open source platform... oh.
           | 
           | Well at least this site isn't created by a VC... oh.
           | 
           | Things are nuanced. VCs can fund valuable useful things
           | sometimes.
        
             | rmbyrro wrote:
             | Nobody's saying screw VCs.
             | 
             | We say screw to fooling your users that you're an OSS
             | adopter and supporter, just until your project is big and
             | you can say screw OSS.
        
               | endisneigh wrote:
               | You seem to be confused. Even if the project is big and
               | they change the license, so what?
               | 
               | The old code is there with the existing license still.
               | Fork it and move on.
               | 
               | People, man.
        
               | Barrin92 wrote:
               | you can't fork and maintain everything yourself, and that
               | de-facto lock in is _exactly_ what companies bank on when
               | they pull this kind of bait and switch. The idea is
               | precisely to gain popularity with open source,  "the
               | first dose is free" style, and then capitalize on the
               | dependency and popularity. Literally just the developer
               | analog to the misleading "everything is free and always
               | will be" advertisements of consumer facing software.
        
               | endisneigh wrote:
               | Ok find other people to help, that's how open source
               | works no?
               | 
               | There's no issue here. Just whining. There is no lock in
               | at all.
               | 
               | Even if it were OSI open source the maintainers like the
               | very thread we are in could die. Then what? Oh you fork
               | and maintain yourself, or the project rots.
               | 
               | License changes are irrelevant.
        
               | rmbyrro wrote:
               | Do you have any idea of what constitutes an OSS project
               | besides characters written on an versioned repository?
        
               | phatfish wrote:
               | People should be more aware of what the license open
               | source software is developed under allows.
               | 
               | Amazon can wrap an open source project in an AWS front
               | end and create a paid for cloud service off the back of
               | community effort. Or, key contributors can decide they
               | want to take the existing code and change the license
               | their contributions are released under going forward.
               | 
               | If the original license allows both these things to
               | happen, then both are a risk and no one is being fooled.
        
               | fieldcny wrote:
               | Who cares if they do that? Do you see Torvalds and co
               | running around crying because the entire world runs on
               | Linux Kernels?
               | 
               | I would love nothing more than for a project I built or
               | contributed to wound up as an AWS service.
               | 
               | Writing the code is just part of the value, running it is
               | also very difficult. Especially as the use increases and
               | expose new code paths and bugs and what not.
        
               | xcrunner529 wrote:
               | I think if a big company or two decided to lead
               | development and charge for their Linux Linux kernels he'd
               | have an issue as his influence etc would change. Also he
               | is lucky in that he doesn't have to care about the making
               | money part. Companies have that issue.
        
               | rmbyrro wrote:
               | Companies can make plenty of money.
               | 
               | What they can't - without giving the middle finger to OSS
               | - is satisfy greed.
               | 
               | If you want to satisfy greed, fine, but be like Oracle.
               | Sell a commercial license upfront. Don't pretend to be
               | OSS.
        
               | xcrunner529 wrote:
               | Well I'm not sure if it's just greed at the level at
               | Amazon, Microsoft etc packaging your work and take all
               | the support money from their vast influence.
        
               | rmbyrro wrote:
               | OSS users don't complain about AWS wrapping around it.
               | It's very much welcome.
               | 
               | The greedy people behind businesses managing OSS are
               | concerned, because they are not satisfied with making
               | money. They want to be THE ONLY ONES making LUDICROUS
               | profits on top of community contributions.
        
               | wholinator2 wrote:
               | I also have this feeling, but i do feel myself doubting
               | from the lack of examples in this conversation. What are
               | some recent examples of this type of scandal that we can
               | use to solidify this conversation?
        
             | berniedurfee wrote:
             | I don't believe HN was created or is being maintained out
             | of the goodness of anyone's heart.
             | 
             | HN has monetary value to someone somewhere. Plus it's cheap
             | to run.
             | 
             | It's also a good advertising and recruiting platform for
             | YC.
             | 
             | There by the grace of VCs goes HN.
        
           | rmbyrro wrote:
           | Monetization-era
        
           | bryanlarsen wrote:
           | The main alternative to open source monetization is XKCD 2347
           | (one guy in Nebraska). PostgreSQL appears to have hit that
           | sweet middle ground that is so rare in open source.
           | 
           | https://xkcd.com/2347/
        
         | weinzierl wrote:
         | The foundation is set up as a 501(c)(3) and to the benefit of
         | the public. While it is not the only open-source project
         | foundation working like that, many others are 501(c)(6)'s and
         | primarily for the benefit of their (most often corporate)
         | sponsors.
        
         | jillesvangurp wrote:
         | Redis ownership is decentralized as well. Redis the company
         | owns the trademark and they were responsible for about one
         | fifth of commits in recent years. The majority of contributions
         | is external to them. The code base is BSD licensed and anyone
         | is free to create a fork and continue development. Which looks
         | like it is exactly what will happen now that Redis has decided
         | that they don't need the input of the other 80% of commits from
         | external contributors. Those contributors will inevitably shift
         | their attention to one or several of the other forks. The Linux
         | Foundation's Valkey fork looks like one of the main likely
         | candidates for committers to rally behind. The biggest change
         | will be the name change. The notion of the likes of Google,
         | Amazon, Microsoft, etc. abandoning their Redis user base is
         | unthinkable. They'll continue to offer that and they'll
         | continue to lead the development of Redis. Redis the company
         | will loose what little influence they had. I've never heard of
         | anyone using hosted Redis directly from them.
         | 
         | In general, projects like Postgresql and other successful open
         | source projects have in common that generally contributors are
         | not coming from a single company. Community diversity is what
         | gives open source projects resilience against corporate
         | shenanigans. Mysql in some form or another will persevere as
         | well. It has survived a lot of this stuff already and it's
         | still there as an open source option.
         | 
         | I use it as a guide to select which things I use. I look for
         | three things in open source tools and libraries that I use: 1)
         | proper licensing (No agpl or shared source nonsense) 2)
         | community diversity (no single companies that can change their
         | mind), 3) active & recent development demonstrating the project
         | is healthy.
         | 
         | Of course the tragedy of individuals like Simon Riggs passing
         | away is that they are so important for the health of these
         | projects. With postgresql, I'm confident that there are others
         | that can step up. But still, he's been very important and it's
         | important to recognize their amazing contributions. The OSS
         | world is full of these type of hero developers and it's what
         | makes using OSS so wonderful. With Redis, that person would be
         | Antirez. And he stepped back from Redis the company some time
         | ago. It will be interesting to see what he does post fork.
        
           | Traubenfuchs wrote:
           | > MySQL
           | 
           | What's the point of it, by the way? Why would one start a new
           | project based on MySQL instead of postgres today?
        
             | giovannibonetti wrote:
             | MySQL has an actively maintained LSM-tree based storage
             | engine like MyRocks, while Postgres doesn't have
             | production-ready options in that regard.
        
               | dboreham wrote:
               | Why is LSM useful for a RDB workload?
        
               | AtlasBarfed wrote:
               | Log Structured Merge Trees are superior in write volume
               | and scaling B+ trees higher. LSMs are part of the sauce
               | of Cassandra and (I believe) DynamoDB for horizontal
               | scaling.
               | 
               | RocksDB is a single node very efficient (better than
               | Cassandra's in the 2.x/3.x releases, not sure about now)
               | single node LSM implementation.
        
             | WJW wrote:
             | Because you know it better? Same reason as for most
             | technical decisions tbh.
             | 
             | Besides that, there are still some points where the MySQL
             | and/or the tooling around it simply performs better than
             | Postgres. Anything to do with replication and big table
             | migrations comes to mind.
        
             | kreetx wrote:
             | Not an expert, but briefly looking into this, MySQL is
             | 
             | 1. easier to configure and manage
             | 
             | 2. faster for read-heavy workloads
             | 
             | 3. has pluggable storage engine (though, if you care about
             | this, then 1. likely doesn't matter anymore)
        
               | Icathian wrote:
               | Just as a note, Postgres also has pluggable storage
               | engine, using their tableam API.
        
               | woooooo wrote:
               | It's much less emphasized compared to MySQL, I didn't
               | even know about it until your comment, and search results
               | are sparse.
               | 
               | MySQL has had multiple viable storage engines for most of
               | its existence. MyISAM, InnoDB and more recently MyRocks.
        
               | TurningCanadian wrote:
               | You might be able to argue that Postgres' foreign data is
               | a different form of pluggable storage engine. E.g. you
               | can even use a CSV file as a backing store for a table
               | with file_fdw.
               | 
               | https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/ddl-foreign-
               | data.htm...
               | 
               | https://dbaclass.com/article/how-to-access-csv-files-on-
               | file...
        
             | steve_rambo wrote:
             | Multi-master replication out of the box. Very useful, very
             | occasionally.
        
             | rob wrote:
             | Because I make money with WordPress.
        
             | jillesvangurp wrote:
             | I personally also prefer postgres but I have used mysql in
             | the past as well on and off over the last 20+ years or so.
             | Managed postgres was at some point slightly more expensive
             | in Amazon for some reason. So that's a good reason. If all
             | you need is some simple database, either is fine.
        
             | netol wrote:
             | Because it may be good enough. In my case, because I
             | already maintain an instance of MariaDB in production, and
             | I may prefer to share this that maintain another thing
        
             | Fartmancer wrote:
             | I would choose MySQL because I'm more familiar with it and
             | it's good enough for what I need. PostgreSQL might be able
             | to give me better benchmarks but it won't have any
             | meaningful benefit for me the developer or for the user.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | Benchmarks are not the reason people choose PostgreSQL
               | over MySQL. I have never even bothered to benchmark the
               | two for any project that could have used either.
               | 
               | Features, better ACID (at least historically) and maybe
               | better standards compliance.
               | 
               | The big one for me is being able to run schema changes in
               | transactions, which makes it easy to roll back a failed
               | migration.
        
               | mdavidn wrote:
               | Also, the license. PostgreSQL is controlled by the open
               | source community via a nonprofit organization.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | True, but I would say governance rather than license.
               | 
               | Not being Oracle is a huge advantage ;)
        
             | berniedurfee wrote:
             | I wouldn't, only because the big O is behind MySQL.
             | 
             | Otherwise, why not? It's basically a Chevy vs Ford
             | decision.
        
             | ksec wrote:
             | Had Oracle stopped investing into MySQL, may be people
             | would have moved on. But they didn't. Just like when people
             | were worried about JAVA, instead we have 15 years of
             | continuous improvement. And that is the same with MySQL.
             | There are lots of features MySQL has as defaults, while
             | postgres simply accept it is not something they want to
             | deal with but leave it to extensions.
        
           | cdelsolar wrote:
           | What's wrong with AGPL
        
             | twodave wrote:
             | AGPL is fine for open source projects. It isn't really
             | useful for a commercial closed-source or even an open-core
             | codebase in some cases.
             | 
             | On the other hand, usually that's the intention when a
             | project selects AGPL. There's usually a commercial license
             | you can buy instead (see iText for example).
        
               | anileated wrote:
               | AGPL is absolutely fine for commercial closed-source
               | projects. Don't fall for anti-AGPL propaganda.
               | 
               | https://drewdevault.com/2020/07/27/Anti-AGPL-
               | propaganda.html
        
               | twodave wrote:
               | It isn't fine because it will come up in due diligence as
               | a risk, every single time. It's easy to say "it's fine",
               | and in theory I agree with you. But it's a cost that
               | doesn't make sense if you know what the auditors are
               | going to say and expect. Auditors flag even more benign
               | things than the AGPL, but to pretend it's not a thing is
               | just whimsy.
        
               | freedomben wrote:
               | I very much _want_ drew 's post to be correct, but I
               | can't let confirmation bias cause me to consider this due
               | diligence.
               | 
               | Are there any lawyers or legal cases that you know of
               | that have proven this? or at least lawyers who have
               | reviewed it and given a legal opinion?
        
             | jillesvangurp wrote:
             | It has a few clauses and language in there that generally
             | scare corporate lawyers. There are two main groups of
             | people advocating the use of this license.
             | 
             | 1) companies that sell non oss commercial licenses for
             | their AGPLed software that they own the copyright to and
             | want you to buy those. A lot of those companies are now
             | starting to prefer shared source type licenses.
             | 
             | 2) open source advocates that don't like any commercial
             | usage of their software and will actively want to prevent
             | any form of intermingling of closed source and open source
             | components like is common in many commercial projects. This
             | is nominally to protect their freedom. But of course it has
             | consequences in the context of commercial projects that
             | don't want to opensource their proprietary stuff. Whether
             | that is actually true or not for any particular use
             | requires a bit of careful legal scrutiny.
             | 
             | Some places that do license audits (e.g. most banks,
             | insurers, and other large companies that need to be alert
             | to potential legal pitfals) would probably flag anything
             | under this license. Three reasons for this: these licenses
             | are only fine under very specific circumstances and certain
             | combinations of licenses are not compatible. And finally of
             | course these audits and lawyers are expensive. So, the
             | easiest way to stay safe would be a blanket ban on anything
             | with this license. Which is my general attitude towards
             | this license.
             | 
             | Anyway, don't take your advice from random commenters
             | (including me) on hacker news and consult a lawyer when in
             | doubt. Yes that costs money. Alternatively, save some money
             | and just steer clear of this mess.
        
           | twodave wrote:
           | I'd guess Microsoft ends up replacing Redis with Garnet[0] in
           | their stack at some point.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.microsoft.com/en-
           | us/research/blog/introducing-ga...
        
         | wslh wrote:
         | Interesting comment, why do you think PostgreSQL succeeded
         | where others with the some structure don't? Is it most probably
         | the kind of people involved more than the structure?
        
           | enonimal wrote:
           | I don't have an answer but I'd love to know this too. Why has
           | Postgres got this unique staying power?
        
             | byronic wrote:
             | Coming at this from a small sample size, every time I've
             | seen it used has been because some of the developers on a
             | team love it and think it's cooler than the other options.
             | And, over time, the operational experience has gotten
             | better (AWS' Postgres support for RDS/Aurora is all recent,
             | for example); and, in fairness, I'd take psql over SQL
             | Server any day of the week.
             | 
             | Regarding why it has popularity beyond mySQL/mariaDB is
             | still a confounding mystery as far as I'm concerned. The
             | additional behaviors Postgres tends to encourage (I'm
             | looking at you, publisher/subscriber and trigger functions)
             | seems to lead to devs advocating it as 'easy' while those
             | in my position are left to keep the damn thing running.
        
               | mdavidn wrote:
               | I developed my preference for PostgreSQL years ago,
               | before MySQL supported foreign key constraints or
               | defaulted to durable commits. MySQL also had this
               | annoying tendency to silently store invalid timestamps as
               | zero. All of these things have been fixed since (I
               | hope?), but I still can't shake my impression that
               | PostgreSQL takes correctness more seriously.
        
             | heresie-dabord wrote:
             | I would say it's similar to Linux:
             | 
             | It's a free, solid foundational technology, guided by
             | steady hands.
             | 
             | In a software economy full of profiteers, charlatans, and
             | marketing babble, the project is providing real value to
             | users.
        
               | koolba wrote:
               | > It's a free, solid foundational technology, guided by
               | steady hands.
               | 
               | Beautifully said.
        
       | deepersprout wrote:
       | I remember the discusson between Simon and Robert about RLS in
       | Postgres, a feature I was eagerly awaiting at the time:
       | https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CA%2BU5nM%2BADSzcSs_2d...
       | 
       | Simon always replied in a professional and objective tone, while
       | making his point. I liked him.
        
       | throwaway81523 wrote:
       | Ouch, RIP. I didn't know anything about this guy, but now I feel
       | like I should attempt some kind of code contribution to Postgres
       | in his memory.
        
       | indyjonas wrote:
       | I met Simon in the 2000s when he was invited to give a Postgres
       | training at the company I was working for at the time. My
       | teammates and I invited him for a glimpse of Bavarian beer garden
       | culture. Not only was Simon a world-class, no-nonsense database
       | software engineer and entrepreneur, he was also a really nice
       | fellow to hang out with. I'll miss him.
        
       | jpgvm wrote:
       | Man this is really sad. :(
       | 
       | Having interacted with Simon on both a community and commercial
       | basis through 2ndQ he was always polite, professional and happy
       | to spend time explaining things to mere mortals.
       | 
       | RIP Simon. You will be missed.
        
       | uhoh-itsmaciek wrote:
       | That's sad to hear. I only met Simon briefly at a conference a
       | decade ago, but I've worked at companies based around Postgres
       | for almost twenty years now. Given his work both on Postgres
       | directly and in founding 2nd Quadrant, I don't think it's a
       | stretch to say I owe him my career.
        
       | chasingthewind wrote:
       | Some discussion and a really upsetting video on Reddit that I'm
       | assuming is this incident
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1boxor4/cirrus_sr...
        
         | arrowsmith wrote:
         | Wow, I had seen the headlines about a fatal plane crash at
         | Duxford but I hadn't made the connection that this was the same
         | incident.
         | 
         | What an awful tragedy. RIP Mr Biggs.
        
         | garyclarke27 wrote:
         | So Sad, that video link is private, this one works.
         | 
         | https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/372326
        
           | ranguna wrote:
           | https://youtube.com/shorts/kSRcmjLllHY?si=-_yAfyExAq79veRn
        
         | lsh123 wrote:
         | Botched go around killed many pilots. May be trimmed too much
         | up for landing with flaps and didn't push nose down hard
         | enough. In general, touch and goes in a high performance planes
         | is not a good idea (no time for checklists, runway length, and
         | actually wrong muscle memory for real takeoffs / landings).
         | RIP.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | As the old quotation goes, Aviation in itself is not
           | inherently dangerous, But to an even greater degree than the
           | sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness,
           | incapacity or neglect.
        
           | sokoloff wrote:
           | There's a balance of risks in T&G vs full-stop taxi-backs. On
           | the day of the individual flight, taxi backs are surely
           | safer. But if they let you get in less than half of the
           | circuits (as would be common at busy GA airports) or if they
           | cause your proficiency training to become twice as expensive,
           | the overall system safety difference isn't clear.
           | 
           | I come down on the side of being willing to do touch and goes
           | in any aircraft (and have shared circuits with heavy jets
           | doing touch and goes, so it's done at all levels).
           | 
           | From the video, this does look like a botched climb from
           | either an intended T&G or bounced landing after a series of
           | T&Gs, so I've got to agree with your point about the "that
           | day" safety here.
        
           | londons_explore wrote:
           | I kinda wish computer systems were more involved in planes.
           | 
           | Computer systems have controlled the movement of elevators
           | for 50+ years. They stop the elevator moving when the door
           | isn't shut very effectively. They have certainly saved more
           | lives compared to even a well trained elevator operator.
           | 
           | With today's tech, it would be possible to make a computer
           | that prevents stall of any aerofoil. Anytime an aerofoil is
           | nearing stall conditions, do whatever is necessary to prevent
           | it stalling by actuating control sticks in the direction to
           | prevent the stall.
        
             | chrononaut wrote:
             | > I kinda wish computer systems were more involved in
             | planes.
             | 
             | > Computer systems have controlled the movement of
             | elevators for 50+ years. They stop the elevator moving when
             | the door isn't shut very effectively. They have certainly
             | saved more lives compared to even a well trained elevator
             | operator.
             | 
             | I thought you were talking about the elevators on a plane
             | and was trying to figure out why whether a plane door was
             | closed mattered for controlling the elevators.
        
             | asdfjvk wrote:
             | Self-driving cars can't even manage 2 degrees of freedom
             | with billions of driver-miles of data. What do you think
             | can be done in 3d space, with more instruments and many
             | orders of magnitude of less data?
        
             | filleduchaos wrote:
             | > With today's tech, it would be possible to make a
             | computer that prevents stall of any aerofoil. Anytime an
             | aerofoil is nearing stall conditions, do whatever is
             | necessary to prevent it stalling by actuating control
             | sticks in the direction to prevent the stall.
             | 
             | What a brilliant idea! It certainly could never directly
             | lead to the deaths of 346 people in two separate plane
             | crashes or anything.
             | 
             | On a slightly less snarky note, what do you imagine an
             | autopilot is?
        
           | gbacon wrote:
           | Even if the accident pilot had intended a stop-and-go and
           | assuming reports of a bounce are accurate, it was too late.
           | Trying to force a landing risks porpoising. Going around
           | after a bad bounce is the safer choice -- but a high workload
           | event: full power, first notch of flaps, nose forward, and
           | the all-important right rudder.
        
           | AtlasBarfed wrote:
           | Are pilots four point strapped? The video looks like a heavy
           | impact with a whip effect from the wing hitting the ground,
           | but the forces involved look generally in the class of
           | automobile impact. Is GA lax on restraints?
           | 
           | Are there "airbags" in GA, or accidental deployment too high
           | a failure risk?
        
             | filleduchaos wrote:
             | > but the forces involved look generally in the class of
             | automobile impact.
             | 
             | I don't think that's something you can eyeball?
             | 
             | For one thing, planes infamously don't appear to be moving
             | super fast even when moving at speeds that would raise
             | eyebrows in a car. On normal final approach a Cirrus SR22
             | has an airspeed of around 80 knots (92 mph, 148 kph) and
             | that looks like this:
             | https://youtube.com/shorts/XZcW11zgWQE - the accident plane
             | almost certainly had a higher velocity when it hit the
             | ground
             | 
             | And for another, impact with the ground especially in a
             | dive is _very_ different from impact with another vehicle
             | as is typical for road accidents. Instant deceleration is a
             | whole other beast. Imagine driving straight into a thick
             | concrete wall at over 90mph - there 's nothing that
             | seatbelts and airbags are going to do to save you from
             | fatal injury (an example of such a test crash:
             | https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/what-happens-when-you-
             | cras...)
        
       | tnvmadhav wrote:
       | RIP :(
       | 
       | Thankful for all the work.
        
       | germandiago wrote:
       | RIP. :(
        
       | worddepress wrote:
       | This happened at Duxford, a very famous airfield in the UK build
       | during WWI. I think they have regular air shows there. Happens to
       | be near Cambridge, UK, which is the high-tech (in many fields)
       | area.
        
         | odiroot wrote:
         | The museum there is really worth visiting.
        
           | nuc1e0n wrote:
           | Yeah. It's great
        
           | chx wrote:
           | You can see an SR-71 there!
        
         | KineticLensman wrote:
         | Duxford houses the Imperial War Museum Duxford, the American
         | Air Museum, the Fighter Collection and the Historic Aircraft
         | Collection [0]. Went their once years ago and was very
         | impressed with the size of the collections.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duxford_Aerodrome#IWM,_America...
        
       | ioltas wrote:
       | I've met Simon for the first time in Tokyo in 2009 for a birthday
       | related to JPUG (Japan PostgreSQL User Group) when hot standby
       | was getting integrated into the upstream project. I saw him last
       | time in Prague three months ago, and we have joked about a few
       | things while discussing about life and how things were going on
       | as I did not go to the Postgres Europe conference for 6~7 years.
       | 
       | The community has lost a member, and many people have lost a
       | friend. That's so sudden. My thoughts go to his family and people
       | who knew him. I'm so sad. RIP, Simon.
        
       | alpaccount wrote:
       | May he rest in peace, humanity surely lost a great mind today.
        
       | ngrilly wrote:
       | Having been following PostgreSQL's development and casually
       | reading pgsql-hackers for years, Simon Riggs is a name I
       | immediately associate to PostgreSQL. It's clear he will be
       | missed. Rest in peace.
        
       | harha_ wrote:
       | ;__;7 I find news like this very sad. People who do massive
       | amounts of good just suddenly die.
        
       | tlocke wrote:
       | I met Simon once ages ago when I was due to speak at a PostgreSQL
       | conference. It was my first time speaking at a conference and he
       | was a nice bloke and gave me a bit of advice afterwards. He said
       | not to worry about having to be entertaining, it's enough just to
       | get the points across, that's what people were there for. I found
       | that very reassuring!
        
       | susanthenerd wrote:
       | I think he deserves the black banner to be put
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | emailed dang asking for this
        
       | sgt wrote:
       | Article in daily mail:
       | 
       | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13245363/Father-kil...
       | 
       | I don't normally like the Daily Mail but they do often include a
       | lot of photos. For those of us who didn't know Simon, but knew of
       | him through Postgres, it's nice to see a face and get a more
       | human connection through these photos. Looks like a guy who lived
       | life to the fullest.
        
         | aidos wrote:
         | Really sad to hear this news.
         | 
         | Personal anecdote from when friends went through a family
         | tragedy - the daily mail were incredibly invasive and
         | insensitive. They trawled Facebook to pull photos (like they've
         | done here) but also figured out close friends and camped out on
         | their doorsteps to try to get them divulge more information.
        
       | keeptrying wrote:
       | Wow, incredible achievement to build Postgres replication.
       | 
       | Something so many people use. Inspiring.
       | 
       | (Note to self: never mention genitals in an obit!)
       | 
       | I hope I build something that's used at this scale.
       | 
       | RIP Simon.
        
       | pfdietz wrote:
       | Very sad.
       | 
       | I will not fly in a small plane, just as I wouldn't ride a
       | motorcycle (both have similar death/time rates.) Your preferences
       | may differ.
       | 
       | This doesn't mean riding in a car is risk free. Many well known
       | computer figures have died that way too. A friend of mine who
       | went on to become fairly well known in the early internet died
       | that way, a head-on accident on I-95.
        
         | gorlilla wrote:
         | I'm sorry to hear that. My best friend, since we were 2 years
         | old, died at 29 in a motorcycle accident the same year he took
         | over the family business. He got clipped by a car that swerved
         | into his lane to avoid another car and that was all it took to
         | take him away from us.
        
         | jetrink wrote:
         | I wonder if small planes aren't actually far more dangerous
         | than motorcycles. A significant minority of motorcycles are
         | operated by thrill-seeking people who routinely drive
         | recklessly and avoid wearing safety equipment. They tend to be
         | young, inexperienced, and unconcerned with risk. Pilots, on the
         | other hand, tend to be serious, careful people. They use
         | checklists. They have to undergo extensive, supervised
         | training. Pilots have a culture of understanding and mitigating
         | risk. For all those differences, the mortality rates are almost
         | the same.
        
           | pfdietz wrote:
           | The average death rate for motorcycles and general aviation
           | is around 1 death per 100,000 hours. Just an average, as you
           | observe.
           | 
           | BTW, flying a small plane costs maybe $40/hour in fuel, but
           | if your life is worth $12.5M (the statistical value of a
           | human life these days) then the cost of the risk is
           | $125/hour, three times as much. This tells me it's likely a
           | good idea to include an emergency whole-plane parachute
           | system on general aviation aircraft, even at the cost of fuel
           | efficiency.
        
       | juggli wrote:
       | RIP Simon.
        
       | steve-chavez wrote:
       | Simon Riggs's 2ndQuadrant was one of the first patreons for
       | PostgREST. I'll forever be grateful, their support came in a hard
       | time. Rest in peace Simon.
        
       | segmondy wrote:
       | So side, Simon was a very brilliant dude. He was flying the
       | cirrus sr22 which has parachute system, I wonder what happened.
        
         | pbj1968 wrote:
         | The parachute dutifully deployed after the plane crashed.
        
         | LorenzoGood wrote:
         | Here is the incident report: https://aviation-
         | safety.net/wikibase/372326
        
       | jeff-davis wrote:
       | Simon was one of the first people I met in the Postgres
       | community, perhaps in 2007 at the first PGCon that I attended.
       | We've attended many of the same conferences in places around the
       | world, and I've occasionally had the chance to explore those
       | places with him. He was always kind to me and helped me
       | immensely. I was proud to have the chance to co-author a major
       | feature with him. The last time I saw him was this past December.
       | 
       | Very sad.
        
       | SubiculumCode wrote:
       | The daily rate of notable deaths in the CS/hacker space will
       | exceed the front page space of hacker news. Aging sucks.
        
       | percivalPep wrote:
       | I worked for him at a 7 person consulting company in the 90's
       | before his work on PostgreSQL. Back then he was a very focused
       | and driven individual. We didn't stay in touch, but I bumped into
       | him a few times at conferences and it was always good to catch
       | up. RIP Simon and much love to friends and family at this
       | difficult time.
        
       | karlzt wrote:
       | This reminds me of:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37199495
       | 
       |  _Kris Nova has died (865 points | 7 months ago | 130 comments)_
       | 
       | Interesting deaths.
       | 
       | R.I.P.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-03-29 23:01 UTC)