[HN Gopher] ST-DOS
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ST-DOS
Author : snvzz
Score : 193 points
Date : 2024-03-28 04:14 UTC (18 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (sininenankka.dy.fi)
(TXT) w3m dump (sininenankka.dy.fi)
| esafak wrote:
| ST as in Atari?
| xenophonf wrote:
| Maybe! Could also be ST as in Sami Tikkanen, the author.
|
| Edit: Ooh, looks like ST-DOS is this person's MS-DOS clone.
| Nifty!
| otabdeveloper4 wrote:
| St.DOS (For TempleOS)
| kqr wrote:
| Confusingly, the operating system of the ST was called TOS -
| The Operating System.
| efrecon wrote:
| or Tramiel Operating System?
| bregma wrote:
| The ST was named using Sam Tramiel's initials, so I always
| assumed TOS was Tramiel Operating System. It's all Tramiel
| from Commodore on down.
| Findecanor wrote:
| Officially ST stood for "SixTeen", as it was a 16-bit
| system.
|
| That was emphasised when the later 68030-based model in
| the series was named TT ("ThirtyTwo").
| richrichardsson wrote:
| Interesting, I'd read somewhere that is was
| "Sixteen/Thirty-two", as M68k has a 16 bit data bus but
| is 32 bit internally.
|
| TT was then Thirty-two/Thirty-two as the '030 data bus
| was 32 bits.
|
| Yours makes more sense though.
| jpalomaki wrote:
| There's also a link to an emulator, running in browser:
| https://archive.org/details/losb425#
| hnlmorg wrote:
| The tag line in that site changes with each refresh. I had one
| which read something like
|
| > Hardware assisted multitasking was an error
|
| Which made me chuckle.
| danbruc wrote:
| I recently stumbled across the MS-DOS 1.25 and 2.0 source code
| [1].
|
| [1] https://github.com/microsoft/MS-DOS
| skissane wrote:
| Not clear at first what this is.
|
| Turns out it is someone's personal clone of MS-DOS.
|
| Nothing to do with Atari ST, the "ST" is the author's initials
| squarefoot wrote:
| I was confused as well. Turns out the right link is this one:
| http://sininenankka.dy.fi/~sami/fdshell/index.php
|
| Tl;Dr: "lEEt/OS is a graphical shell and partially posix-
| compliant multitasking operating environment that runs on top
| of a DOS kernel." [...] "lEEt/OS is slowly but surely migrating
| from FreeDOS to ST-DOS, its own DOS kernel."
| Findecanor wrote:
| Not a far-fetched thought though. The Atari ST's "TOS" used MS-
| DOS formatted floppies.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| And its "GEMDOS" was basically a fusion of MS-DOS and CP/M,
| but on 68/k. (not surprising since it was made by Digital
| Research).
| quenix wrote:
| > Nothing to do with Atari ST, the "ST" is the author's
| initials
|
| Or STM32, as I initially suspected.
| Maakuth wrote:
| https://github.com/Gessle/leet_os here's a github mirror of the
| source code, if you don't feel like downloading the zip for
| perusal.
| TheDudeMan wrote:
| Oh, DOS. Fond memories.
|
| My first experience was the 3.x era. Does anyone else remember
| DR-DOS?
| shzhdbi09gv8ioi wrote:
| I remember my cousin ran DR-DOS 6 on their PC.
| b3lvedere wrote:
| Yes. Many years ago when i worked for a computer shop, i was
| kinda 'forced' by the shop owner to sell it whenever a new
| computer was sold. He bought lots of it and nobody would buy
| it. I hated it.
|
| Back in the BBS era i loved 4DOS, but looking back in hindsight
| it was just a bunch of extra tools on top of MS-Dos.
| TheDudeMan wrote:
| I had that one, too. Good stuff. Yeah, just tools, but
| useful.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I had a single game that, AFAICT, the CD-ROM version couldn't
| run on MS-DOS the normal way because the intro it showed needed
| more conventional memory that was possible with mscdex
| loaded[1]. There was a workaround that consisted of running the
| program that would resume from the latest save, then exiting to
| the main menu. If you had a large enough hard-drive, you could
| also run it by copying the data to your hard drive, then
| manually pointing the game at the path (thus allowing you to
| omit the CD-ROM driver).
|
| I managed to get it to run off the CD by using the nwcdex (From
| Novell Dos 7, after Novell purchased Digital Research), which
| could load itself into EMS.
|
| 1: This was the CD-ROM version of Master of Magic. The intro
| needed approximately 630KB of conventional memory to run.
| UncleSlacky wrote:
| I enjoyed playing the built-in "Advanced NetWars" game:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetWars#Legacy
| JdeBP wrote:
| Reading the documentation, "this is a clone of MS-DOS" turns out
| to be quite a misleading summary of what this is.
|
| The documentation claims things (which I have not verified
| personally) such as forking, signals, and pipes. Instead of a
| SUBST command there is a MOUNT command. And there's a convoluted
| piece of hooplah that stands in place of what MS-DOS could do
| with the SHELL= line in CONFIG.SYS .
| skissane wrote:
| > Reading the documentation, "this is a clone of MS-DOS" turns
| out to be quite a misleading summary of what this is.
|
| Not a "clone" in the sense of 100% compatible... but a "clone"
| in the sense of borrowing a significant degree of ideas and
| APIs/syntax from it, yet also deviating at various points
| (whether for good reasons or for idiosyncratic ones)
|
| It is a clone more in the sense that the Japanese mainframe
| operating systems Fujitsu MSP and Hitachi VOS3 are/were clones
| of IBM MVS: they started out as a direct copy of MVS-due to IBM
| having released earlier versions into the public domain, and
| Fujitsu/Hitachi illegally stealing the IP of later ones-but
| over time diverged in incompatible directions
| smoppi wrote:
| ST-DOS is a DOS implementation, but it is not meant to be a
| clone of MS-DOS. It is mostly syscall-compatible with MS-DOS,
| but the driver API and many other things are completely
| different. After all the definition of DOS is just "disk
| operating system".
|
| All real mode programs that are compiled with Watcom C/C++
| should work. The most recent versions of Watcom's protected
| mode runtime don't currently work, because they use some
| undocumented MS-DOS syscalls that are not implemented in ST-
| DOS. I intend to create a compatibility TSR that will solve
| most issues with those MS-DOS programs.
| layer8 wrote:
| Context: http://sininenankka.dy.fi/~sami/fdshell/philosophy.php
| vanderZwan wrote:
| I don't know what it is about Finnish culture that results in
| such a significant number of permacomputing hackers1 that go to
| great lengths to preserve old-hardware, but I am grateful for it.
|
| 1 When I say significant I mean "at least two, but one of them is
| viznut"2. That is significant, right?
|
| 2 http://viznut.fi/en/
| marttt wrote:
| This sure is a Very Finnish Project. (Definition: a completely
| random Finn, always carrying a barely noticeable smirk, is taking
| an utterly improbable or completely unnecessary project and
| finishing it to absolute, ridiculous perfection. Warmest
| greetings to all Finns from the other side of the Gulf! I love
| you guys forever.)
|
| Also, there was more discussion on ST-DOS (involving the author)
| on the Dos Ain't Dead forum: http://www.bttr-
| software.de/forum/board_entry.php?id=20883
| exikyut wrote:
| Finnishing it*
|
| FTFY
| actionfromafar wrote:
| If only this power could be harnessed. But I think by
| definition, it can't. :-)
| wenc wrote:
| Sisu?
| rauli_ wrote:
| Like Linux or MySQL?
| omoikane wrote:
| The first thought that came to my mind were actually the
| Future Crew, and one of their members were also named Sami
| (but seems unrelated to this author).
| souvlakee wrote:
| How do people create a 90s old-school dial-up design in 2024? Is
| there a special framework for it?
| scrumper wrote:
| Haha really? Can't tell if joking. Something else we used to do
| in the '90s was View Source.
| Sharlin wrote:
| All the HTML that worked back then still works, so I'm not sure
| what you're asking? Table layouting works just as it used to.
| HTML 4.01 Transitional doctype works. `<body text=""
| bgcolor="">` works. And so on. You just write HTML. By hand. As
| disturbing as it may sound in 2024.
|
| This specimen is particularly pure, not having any sort of a
| stylesheet (after all, we had CSS 2.0 already in 1998), the
| only <link> tag pointing to the RSS feed (which we _didn't_
| have until 1999)!
| mtmk wrote:
| Nothing like the good old days of CRT monitors, buzzing floppy
| drives, loud hard disks, and the good ol' DOS prompt C:>.
| marttt wrote:
| Question: considering that the Mpxplay music player [1] supports
| native audio playback via Intel HDA on DOS (confirmed with
| FreeDOS), should it also work out of the box on ST-DOS?
|
| 1: https://mpxplay.sourceforge.net/
| fsiefken wrote:
| Can it run Windows 3.11 and if so would there be a multitasking,
| lfn, speed or memory advantage in doing so compared to dr-dos,
| ms-dos or freedos?
| WalterBright wrote:
| What's interesting is when I think about MS-DOS these days, I
| think I could make a functional duplicate in short order. But
| nobody did it at the time.
|
| (How I'd do it is write all the semantic code in D, such as the
| code for EDLIN, and debug it all. Then hand-translate it into
| asm.)
|
| P.S. One of the smartest things Gates/Allen did to write their
| original BASIC was to write an 8080 emulator on a PDP-10(?). This
| enabled much, much faster development than trying to hand-
| assemble code and toggle it in.
| ab5tract wrote:
| Were there not many MS-DOS clones at the time?
| WalterBright wrote:
| There was DR-DOS, but it came years later. I don't recall any
| others.
| jlundberg wrote:
| This is really cool and inspiring. Looking forward to trying it
| on the 8086:es my kids have.
|
| Slightly related noteworthy project: http://svardos.org/
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(page generated 2024-03-28 23:01 UTC)