[HN Gopher] The last crimes of Caravaggio
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The last crimes of Caravaggio
Author : prismatic
Score : 192 points
Date : 2024-03-27 14:04 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.newstatesman.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.newstatesman.com)
| pvg wrote:
| https://archive.is/bDovV
| neonate wrote:
| http://web.archive.org/web/20240327160052/https://www.newsta...
| huytersd wrote:
| Caravaggio was my favorite artist with the chiaroscuro style when
| I was naive about art and he still is now when I'm not.
| david927 wrote:
| great comment! I think Caravaggio is an artist's artist. Come
| for the drama and tenebrism, stay for the unbridled genius.
| ramijames wrote:
| This was an excellent article!
|
| He's one of my favorite painters. Such depth and emotion. It's so
| fun to know more about how awful an actual person he was. Super
| cool that all of this information is still accessible 400 years
| later.
| ilikeitdark wrote:
| One of my favorite painter. Deserves a film or limited series.
| Only if done well and with accuracy, which may be near
| impossible.
| ecocentrik wrote:
| There is a decent film by Derik Jarman, Caravaggio (1986) with
| Sean Bean and Tilda Swinton.
| Daub wrote:
| I think I was an extra on that movie. I say 'think' and Derik
| never told me what movie he was shooting. Good times.
| osullivj wrote:
| Do tell, says this Caravaggio, el Greco and Beccafumi
| obsessive...
| Daub wrote:
| So... Derek Jarman had a studio in one of the old
| warehouses alongside the thames before it became the
| yupified, soulless nonsence it is now. I was an artist
| but also modelled frequently for other artists and art
| schools (not unusual for a young artist).
|
| DJ was in the process of producing Caravaggio, and I
| heard through a freind that DJ was looking for models not
| shy about being 'au naturel' in front of the camera. The
| shoot required that I dance naked, together with many
| other guys, at night around a large fire, located in an
| empty lot next to his studio.
|
| I know that his Caravagio movie was in production (or
| development) and being openly discussed at the time and
| this was part of my motivation behind accepting the
| (unpaid) gig. However, from my single viewing of the
| movie, I cannot recal seeing any such scene.
|
| There are plenty of similar scenes in his movie
| Sebastian, but the dates don't work out. It's concievable
| that he was just shooting one of his off the cuf
| experimental works... who knows.
|
| The shoot itself was a bit chaotic. Most of the other
| guys there were gay and up for a party..., Very frisky.
| As a young straight lad, I was a bit freaked out, but
| Derik himself was a complete gentleman, and also very
| protective of me. Needless to say I did not return.
| However, I maintain very fond memories of DJ. He had a
| wiked sence if humour and was evidently a man a great
| humanity.
|
| I do recal towards the end of the evening seeing him cry.
| Maybe it was because of the stress of the shoot, or maybe
| because of health issues (he was diagnosed HIV+ around
| that time but my memory of the dates is fuzzy).
|
| He was part of a London that no longer exists... Punk,
| alternative, pre-yuppy. Much missed.
| rsynnott wrote:
| A lot of stuff gets filmed and then cut, so it might just
| be that. You might be on a director's cut DVD somewhere!
| (Though way less likely for old stuff, where the removed
| material may no longer even exist.)
| bbkane wrote:
| I recommend the Caravaggio episodes of
| https://artholespodcast.com/ to everyone!
|
| Michael Anthony does a REALLY good job contextualizing
| Caravaggios crazy actions and giving a "window" into life in
| Italy then.
| SirLJ wrote:
| This is great podcast! Frida Kahlo series was the best IMHO
| jpfr wrote:
| I agree! The ArtHoles podcast is superb.
|
| There were some updates on his Instagram lately. Fingers
| crossed for more episodes.
|
| This is the first online-first content producer I'd consider
| paying real money for...
| jdmoreira wrote:
| I recommend the episodes about his life on the History on Fire
| podcast. This guy was WILD
| lazide wrote:
| Jesus Christ does that website have a shit ton of trackers. 321
| 'partners with access to fine geolocation'?!?
| somat wrote:
| And the icing on the cake is how it starts with a modal dialog
| headlined "We value your privacy"
| pluc wrote:
| Stop using Javascript on the Internet and you'll find yourself
| back in 1998. Advertisers, marketers and front-end devs have
| ruined it. Only selectively allow each JS source, fuck them.
| anonnon wrote:
| His erratic behavior may have been attributable to heavy metal
| poisoning, especially lead, much of which came from his paints:
| https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2010/jun/16/caravag...
| Daub wrote:
| I have heard the same thing (wrongly) said of Van Gogh, whose
| poor mental condition towards the end of his life was almost
| certainly caused by syphilis.
|
| This is not to underplay the impact of poisonous paints: the
| entire cadmium range (cadmium red and yellow), Naples yellow (
| lead antimonate), Flake white (lead again). For more horrors,
| check out the book artist beware.
|
| Looking at the article you linked, the evidence for
| Caravaggio's death by lead poisoning does indeed seem
| conclusive. However, IMO it almost certainly was not through
| the use of paint itself, but from the careless manufacture of
| paint. In those days, most painters made their own paint by
| mixing powder pigment with oil. Powdered lead pigments is 100
| times more dangerous than pigment locked into an oil emulsion.
|
| A dear artist friend of mine died as a result of their art. God
| bless you Jim where ever you are.
| happytiger wrote:
| Cheers to Jim!
| languagehacker wrote:
| My favorite painter! I highly recommend Caravaggio: A Life Sacred
| and Profane by Andrew Graham-Dixon. That and the Derek Jarman
| film (as referenced by others) provide valuable insight into his
| grandiose and self-destructive behavior, along with the patronage
| system that allowed him countless second chances until he managed
| to burn every bridge available to him. Michelangelo Merisi
| teaches us a great lesson on the precariousness of talent mixed
| with recklessness.
| m463 wrote:
| I looked at his work here:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravaggio
|
| his medusa kind of reminds me of joseph ducreaux:
|
| https://www.openculture.com/2021/12/the-eccentric-self-portr...
|
| (without the blood)
| thecupisblue wrote:
| I always heard about Caravaggio from books and Internet, finding
| his paintings "ok, realistic, cool for the time, skilfully made".
|
| Then I saw a few live. The chiaroscuro theatre of shadow and
| light, the insane details, the dynamic of each painting, the
| mastery it takes to reproduce such art pieces, it all humbled me
| as an artist in a way I did not expect. This man had such an
| insane talent, vision and skill to produce some of these
| paintings, their harshness matching his lifestyle.
|
| If you have a chance to see some of his works in person, go for
| it, it will definitely pay off.
| happytiger wrote:
| Yes you are describing my experience exactly. This art is one
| of those arts that looks nice in photos and is just impactful
| (?) in person. Like, movingly painted somehow? It is
| emotionally arresting. He has captured something of the human
| spirit in some of his work.
|
| Well said.
| squeedles wrote:
| Had to make an account just to reply that I had a similar
| experience with Thomas Cole. Saw a showing of "Course of
| Empire" and was astonished. Looking at a photo can't prepare
| you for the impact of a wall-sized painting crammed with
| magnifying glass-sized details.
| wahnfrieden wrote:
| monitors also do not reproduce much color spectrum that is
| apparent in painting situated in a room
| hodgesrm wrote:
| This. I had the same feeling on seeing The Triumph of Death
| by Pieter Bruegel the Elder in the Prado. [0] It's one thing
| to see the painting in a book. It's another thing to turn the
| corner into a room and see the full 20 square foot landscape
| in front of you. (It's still one of my favorite paintings of
| all time.)
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triumph_of_Death
| Anotheroneagain wrote:
| _the insane details_
|
| Really? I get the exact opposite impression - how little actual
| detail there is. It seems it almost completely consists of few
| thick brushstrokes, made with insane precision.
|
| The Supper at Emmaus seems to be an exception. It makes me
| think it actually isn't his painting.
| Arkhaine_kupo wrote:
| Oh the article misses one of the best bits about his lifestyle.
|
| The man run what essentially was a beautiful scam on churches. He
| was comissioned to paint saint and virgins. He would use local
| prostitutes as models (it is mentioned in the article he was
| condemed for the murder of a pimp). So when the paintings were
| presented to the church, the locals (and sometimes even the
| priests) would recognise the models and there would be some
| uproar of using the likeness of a streetwalker to paint the
| virgin mary. So the painting would get removed and most of the
| time a private owner (sometimes higher ups in the church) would
| buy them for their personal collection. Too scandalous for the
| public, but perfect for my own palace.
|
| There was a very famous incident of this where he painted Mary's
| death. Usually this is a very holy moment in Christianity and
| it's painted as such. Caravaggio did not. He painted it in a
| dirty tent, in a very human way with her passing away. This was
| Strike One. Secondly he modeled the death after a famous body
| that was retrived from the river in Rome, a girl had drowned and
| tons of people had seen her lifeless body be pulled out of the
| water, and they could now see that same girl being virgin mary.
| Strike Two. And the last strike was that the woman was not any
| girl, but one of the most famous prostitutes of the city and one
| seen very regularly with Caravaggio. Painting your ex gf
| prostitute who died unceremonoiously drowned as the holyest
| figure outside of christ was a big issue at the time.
|
| The painting however is still gorgeous and would urge anyone
| travelling to Paris (in the Louvre) to go see it. Not as "another
| virgin" painting, which you will find infinite Madonna paintings
| in Europe. But as one of the first paintings not sanctifying her
| death and as a sad goodbye from Caravaggio to someone important
| to him
| plondon514 wrote:
| According to Wikipedia the painting is part of the Louvres
| permanent collection (Paris)
| Arkhaine_kupo wrote:
| it is, fixed. I heard about it while travelling on northern
| Italy, thought it was still in Italy. Haven't seen it in
| person, but something to look forward on my next trip to
| Paris
| pluc wrote:
| Where in Rome can one find this painting?
| Arkhaine_kupo wrote:
| Its in Paris, the guy above corrected me. So if you are ever
| in the Louvre go and give it a look
| hypertexthero wrote:
| Here it is:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_Virgin_(Caravaggi...
| nerdponx wrote:
| Wikipedia tells me that this is also the _last_ major depiction
| of her death as death, rather than "assumption", which I find
| kind of interesting.
| michaelsbradley wrote:
| Dormition versus Assumption
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormition_of_the_Mother_of_God.
| ..
| bigfatfrock wrote:
| Amazing color to add to this great story, thank you.
|
| Reading your relation, I realized that this intermixing of
| "questionable" (at the time) art ended up in religious settings
| including bible printings back then, resulting in even worse
| results. My first recollection is of the scandalous chapter
| opening characters used in some of the earliest KJV printings
| that results in bankruptcy/ruination of the press owner/printer
| due to royal/religious offense and subsequent punishment!
| greenie_beans wrote:
| watch derek jarman's 'caravaggio'
| huytersd wrote:
| Genuinely trying not to be an ass but is it significantly
| "gayer" than Caravaggio's life actually was?
| greenie_beans wrote:
| dunno how gay caravaggio's life was, but yes, jarman's
| depiction is gay.
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