[HN Gopher] Fisker lost track of millions of dollars in customer...
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       Fisker lost track of millions of dollars in customer payments for
       months
        
       Author : mfiguiere
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2024-03-27 19:08 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (techcrunch.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (techcrunch.com)
        
       | bragr wrote:
       | >In a few cases, it delivered vehicles without collecting any
       | form of payment at all
       | 
       | That's crazy. I'm curious what happened in those instances. I
       | suppose it depends a lot on the jurisdiction, but can Fisker come
       | back and demand payment, or did those people just get free cars?
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | I was utterly confused until I realized this is not Fisk*a*r
         | the scissor maker.
        
           | moogly wrote:
           | Fiskars
        
         | kayodelycaon wrote:
         | For something as valuable as a car, they definitely can. You
         | still agreed to pay them.
         | 
         | However, you can decide to take the whole thing to court and
         | see what a judge thinks about it. In a way, they screwed up and
         | that may affect the contract.
        
           | Atotalnoob wrote:
           | They might have a case to keep the car!
           | 
           | There are laws around sending people packages and then
           | demanding payment.
           | 
           | I think it was to stop trolls from mailing you garbage and
           | demanding payment afterwards...
           | 
           | I'm not a lawyer, them having a purchase agreement in place
           | probably changes things, but a clever lawyer might be able to
           | make a case
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | How are they going to register without a title?
        
               | recursive wrote:
               | Unregistered car fines are probably less than the cost of
               | the car in many use cases.
        
             | kayodelycaon wrote:
             | Those laws are for sending things unsolicited. In this
             | case, the customer asked for the car and agreed to pay for
             | it. The company failed to process the payment. Very
             | different scenario.
        
             | maximinus_thrax wrote:
             | > There are laws around sending people packages and then
             | demanding payment.
             | 
             | Laws are different when you request the package. I don't
             | believe Fisker sent cars to random people.
        
           | Atotalnoob wrote:
           | They might have a case to keep the car!
           | 
           | There are laws around sending people packages and then
           | demanding payment.
           | 
           | I think it was to stop trolls from mailing you garbage and
           | demanding payment afterwards...
           | 
           | I'm not a lawyer, them having a purchase agreement in place
           | probably changes things, but a clever lawyer might be able to
           | make a case, but I'm just spitballing
        
       | miohtama wrote:
       | "Checks were not cashed in a timely manner or just lost
       | altogether" only in the US of A, or movies from 70s, something
       | like this.
        
         | petercooper wrote:
         | To be fair, my mother is in a protracted situation with one of
         | Europe's largest banks and the UK government's savings scheme.
         | She made a transfer of a sum of money to the savings scheme but
         | the bank refused for various reasons, yet the savings scheme
         | acted as if they had received it. She now has the lump sum in
         | both the bank account _and_ the savings scheme with both of
         | them claiming everything is fine and refusing to investigate
         | further unless she files an official complaint at having 2x the
         | money(!)
         | 
         | If a global bank and the UK government can't figure this stuff
         | out, I can certainly see how a company like Fisker might drop
         | the ball.
        
           | mvdtnz wrote:
           | OP was commenting on the use of cheques, which is comical in
           | the rest of the world. Banking errors can happen anywhere.
        
           | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
           | Guess she should close the savings account and see how much
           | they send her?
        
           | throwway120385 wrote:
           | "Bank error in your favor. Collect $200."
        
           | foobarian wrote:
           | Heh. Couple months ago my mortgage company applied a payment
           | to two consecutive months, also paid by paper check. Maybe
           | check processing skills are getting lost from the workforce.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | I am now trying to set up direct deposit in an investment
             | account I own. Despite being able to buy and sell online in
             | that account, to enable direct deposit I need to mail them
             | a paper form, with notarized signature, and include a
             | voided blank check. I have not written a paper check in
             | years and I'm not even sure I have any.
        
         | ClassyJacket wrote:
         | Truly. I had no idea anyone was still using cheques in 2024.
         | Why weren't they simply doing bank transfers? I don't know if
         | you even _could_ buy a car with a cheque in Australia.
         | 
         | In fact we're ending the cheque system entirely in the next few
         | years. I'm 34 and have never written a cheque, and only
         | received about 4 - none of which were in the last 5 years.
        
           | firecall wrote:
           | You can get a Bank Cheque!
           | 
           | I've purchased a car privately this way.
           | 
           | Although, very sensibly, the seller met us at his bank and
           | paid the Cheque in to his account whilst we were there. Fake
           | Bank Cheques are a thing.
           | 
           | I havent used a Cheque Book since the late 1990s. We used to
           | order take-away food in London and then pay with a Cheque and
           | Cheque Guarantee Card when the driver got to the door!
           | 
           | Which of course meant you could buy food on a Friday if you
           | had no money and didnt get paid until Monday! LOL :-)
           | 
           | The original BNPL Scheme! ;-)
           | 
           | But yes, I dont think they issue Cheque Books here in AU
           | anymore. And if they did, what would you even do with one!
           | 
           | Can you imagine trying to pay in a shop with one!
        
           | Talanes wrote:
           | To shed some light on why Americans kept checks for so long:
           | I'm 33 and have never done a bank transfer. I can't even say
           | what the flaws in our system are, because I grew up in a
           | family where it was never considered as an option: money was
           | sent as cash or checks only.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | Could the accounting problems be due to intentionally delaying
       | having accurate revenue numbers?
       | 
       | Or (looking at vehicles delivered without payment) sales dept.
       | breaking rules?
       | 
       | Or (always a good guess) is it actually a software fiasco, and
       | people trying to work around non-working software?
       | 
       | Or did they not have an adequate accounting organization set up
       | when they started taking orders, and for some reason let that
       | persist for months?
        
         | peter_l_downs wrote:
         | Yes, to every single one of your questions.
        
       | gangstead wrote:
       | They've also slashed prices
       | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-27/fisker-sl... .
       | Presumably that's on existing inventory as the manufacturing is
       | paused. So even if they do cash your check it won't be as big as
       | it used to be.
       | 
       | It looks like bankruptcy is imminent. If they do go under does
       | that mean there would be no one there to collect the telemetry?
       | Would an electric car made by a bankrupt company be the first
       | electric car not to constantly be spying on its owners?
        
         | leptons wrote:
         | Someone else could still do the spying.
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | More importantly, electric cars use a TLS protocol for
         | charging, and that TLS protocol requires the manufacturers to
         | issue new certificates every (90?) days.
         | 
         | If the servers go down, these cars won't be able to charge with
         | DC chargers at all (which requires the TLS protocol), and maybe
         | not with home chargers either (which sometimes uses the TLS
         | protocol).
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Fisker Trading Suspended by NYSE_
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39821335
        
       | chasers wrote:
       | Rivian lost my full payment for an R1S.
        
         | gangstead wrote:
         | What was the outcome? Free car? A strongly worded letter and
         | you wrote another check?
        
         | peter_l_downs wrote:
         | That's astonishing. What ended up happening?
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | Recent discussion about Fisker in the context of a popular
       | negative review of their car ("the worst car I've ever
       | reviewed"): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39650115
        
       | reilly3000 wrote:
       | "Material Weakness" is audit-speak for royal f-up. As a public
       | company I'm amazed they were able to make it through prior
       | financial statements without proper controls. If their quality
       | control related suits don't take them down the investor ones sure
       | could.
        
       | peter_l_downs wrote:
       | Billing and Accounts Payable will always seem like a "how could
       | you mess that up?" problem to engineers, but it literally is
       | difficult and complicated and rife with ways to very seriously
       | and permanently fuck your relationship with your customer. And
       | potentially with your auditors, investors, and whoever performs
       | legal oversight in your jurisdiction. All of the largest
       | companies in the tech world have been hit by AP fraud. Billing,
       | collecting taxes, etc. is just fundamentally complicated
       | (fundamentally = by laws of the lands.) There's a reason Stripe
       | is a bazillion dollar business!
       | 
       | That said, this screams of amateur hour. If Fisker can't keep
       | track of the money I certainly wouldn't trust them to build a car
       | correctly.
       | 
       | EDIT: I didn't realize they were already a public company. How in
       | the fuck did they pull that off? It's so over for them.
        
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       (page generated 2024-03-27 23:01 UTC)