[HN Gopher] Schiphol conducts trial with self-driving buses on a...
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       Schiphol conducts trial with self-driving buses on airside
        
       Author : riezebos
       Score  : 46 points
       Date   : 2024-03-27 17:55 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.schiphol.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.schiphol.com)
        
       | davidkuennen wrote:
       | I was flying to Schiphol on Monday and use that airport as my
       | favorite for long-haul flights, even though I'm from Germany.
       | It's a really nice airport.
        
         | ginko wrote:
         | It's one of my least favorite airports in Europe. The number of
         | times my luggage got lost there alone is enough for me to avoid
         | whenever possible. The shops and restaurants are also extremely
         | bland.
        
           | firloop wrote:
           | The needed context seems to be that the person you are
           | replying to is German. I don't love Schiphol either, but it
           | beats any German airport (looking at Frankfurt in
           | particular).
        
             | bobthepanda wrote:
             | What's a nice large European airport? I feel like I've
             | heard terrible things of all of them, like LHR and CDG.
        
               | ginko wrote:
               | Copenhagen is quite nice.
        
               | peterpost2 wrote:
               | I would argue that's the only nice airport in Scandinavia
               | even! Would say the worst layout on an airport i've ever
               | seen is Stockholm Arlanda.
        
               | dcminter wrote:
               | Copenhagen airport is my favourite too - note however
               | that Arlanda T5 is being expanded at the moment and it
               | seems like it will be a lot nicer when they're finished.
               | The security stuff is already much better: no need to
               | unpack laptops etc. from hand luggage when going through
               | the new section. T2 is still quite sucky though!
        
               | varjag wrote:
               | OSL is fine too. And it's not like there's a huge number
               | of large hubs in Scandinavia...
        
               | mdturnerphys wrote:
               | Except for the incredibly low ceilings in some places.
        
               | Symbiote wrote:
               | I like Heathrow when travelling to or from London. It's
               | huge, but there's public transport to each terminal, a
               | reasonable selection of restaurants and generally
               | somewhere to sit. It's fairly quiet.
               | 
               | Changing between terminals at Heathrow is much less fun.
               | 
               | CDG I find confusing.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | >Changing between terminals at Heathrow is much less fun.
               | 
               | I decided to stay at a Heathrow airport hotel a while
               | back. Turned out I had to change terminals and I'm pretty
               | sure it took me at least as long as getting a shuttle bus
               | to one of the hotels would have taken.
               | 
               | You often have to walk quite a ways too.
               | 
               | Overall though Heathrow is pretty good among the large
               | European airports.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | I actually kinda enjoy the distance between terminals.
               | After a long international flight, I deliberately take
               | the tunnel, and skip the moving walkways. As long as I'm
               | not rushing to make a connection, the walk is really
               | nice.
        
             | belter wrote:
             | Frankfurt is atrocious, but Munich is great.
        
           | Detrytus wrote:
           | > The shops and restaurants are also extremely bland.
           | 
           | Worse than Frankfurt? It seems like the only food you can get
           | there is a hot-dog...
        
         | wenc wrote:
         | Schiphol AMS is my favorite European airport.
         | 
         | It's not as great as SIN, ICN or the once dominant HKG though.
        
         | rf15 wrote:
         | Whenever I travel in a group through Shiphol, at least one
         | piece of luggage gets missing every time. Yes, they manage to
         | get it back to you eventually (although I did lose an expensive
         | pair of running shoes there), but the amount of hoops you have
         | to jump through at times is complete madness. After ten years
         | of going over Shiphol 1-2 per year, I'm now at a point where I
         | just try to find a route around it.
        
         | dustincoates wrote:
         | Weird, Schiphol is my least favorite major airport. Poor dining
         | options, for one, but the worst is how narrow the pathways are.
         | If you're trying to pass a gate that's within twenty minutes of
         | the boarding time, you've got to push through a crowd. (And I
         | can't blame the crowd, as there's not nearly enough seating.)
         | 
         | This is when flying Air France/KLM within Europe. Maybe it's
         | better in other terminals.
        
         | sfjailbird wrote:
         | I hate Schiphol, and my family tend to call it by a name that
         | rhymes.
        
         | alamortsubite wrote:
         | I've several times made it from a hotel room in town to my gate
         | at Schiphol in under an hour. Without trying, and
         | walking/taking the train from central.
        
       | tdudhhu wrote:
       | Self driving is a bit of a stretch here. There are already a lot
       | locations around the world where autonomous vehicles are driving,
       | even in the Nederlands.
       | 
       | For example in the Netherlands there is a container terminal that
       | has been using autonomous trucks for decades. And since 1999
       | there have been autonomous busses in Rotterdam.
       | 
       | Yes they are self driving, but not as smart as self driving means
       | today.
        
         | ironmagma wrote:
         | What makes that possible? Closed course, has to stay on tracks?
        
           | smokel wrote:
           | Magnets!
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ParkShuttle
        
         | jessriedel wrote:
         | Yes there doesn't seem to be anything interesting here. They
         | obviously aren't developing anything remotely like the
         | Waymo/Cruise tech, and no reason to think they've developed
         | anything useful even within some highly constrained setting.
         | I'd guess it's a corporate feel-good project that will be wound
         | down after the press release.
        
       | belter wrote:
       | From YouTube comments, it seems was an experiment of 2023 with
       | video only uploaded now. It also looks like was not that
       | successful, as they were too slow, and ended up causing problems
       | for the meat based drivers...
        
         | IncreasePosts wrote:
         | They're made of meat?
        
           | knicholes wrote:
           | Especially if the observer is a tiger!
        
           | belter wrote:
           | Totally: https://youtu.be/T6JFTmQCFHg
        
         | elif wrote:
         | From one comment. Not comments. The rest of the pessimistic
         | comments, like yours, are from a position lacking any
         | experience of this vehicle.
        
           | belter wrote:
           | Dont blame the messenger. Why don't you fill us in on the
           | project status?
        
       | interestica wrote:
       | I was at Dulles/DC and the air-side transportation was
       | interesting: the jetbridge was also a bus. It's a "mobile lounge"
       | and I guess a few airports have them. There's definitely
       | something interesting when transit isn't seen as transit...but
       | just mobile public spaces?
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_lounge
        
         | 0xcde4c3db wrote:
         | Tom Scott video (because of course he did one):
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3OqAN4ISOw
        
         | alistairSH wrote:
         | Yep, Dulles opened just as jet bridges became common. They were
         | originally used for embarkation/disembarkation as well.
         | 
         | These days, they're mostly used to transport international
         | arrivals from the gates (which have jet bridges) to the
         | terminal that contains immigration control. Non-international
         | have an option to use the lounges or a subway (usually
         | depending on which gate you're at and where you need to go -
         | sometime the lounge is faster than the train).
         | 
         | A bit of an anachronism today. But, having grown up in the DC
         | area, they're definitely have a nostalgia factor.
        
         | showerst wrote:
         | These things have a high 'what might have been' future factor,
         | but man they are annoying in practice. Because you have to wait
         | for everyone to cram inside, it feels much slower than a train
         | or moving walkway. They're very frustrating after a long flight
         | when you just want to get to customs and get home.
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | I grew up near Dulles. Everybody seems to hate on the mobile
           | lounges, but I've _never_ not beaten my luggage to the
           | baggage claim, and I haven 't found it any quicker to get
           | from my gate to the exit at other similarly large airports.
           | In any event they are being retired in favor of below-ground
           | trains.
        
             | jfengel wrote:
             | Partly, that's because the luggage processing is _very
             | slow_ on international flights at Dulles. You have to go
             | through immigration, which can be time consuming (though
             | the automated ones are better of late). There 's no reason
             | you should get to baggage claim ahead of the baggage.
             | 
             | Aside from that, though... I think it's just that it feels
             | like an additional step. You want to get going --
             | especially if you're the sort of person who moves quickly
             | through airports -- and now you're just waiting as the
             | lounge fills up. After a long international flight, you
             | don't want to be sitting and waiting.
             | 
             | I won't be sorry to see the mobile lounges go. They were a
             | clever idea at the time, but they're hardly "lounges" these
             | days. They're just buses, at a time when you really, really
             | don't want to be taking a bus.
        
               | aidenn0 wrote:
               | > Partly, that's because the luggage processing is very
               | slow on international flights at Dulles. You have to go
               | through immigration, which can be time consuming (though
               | the automated ones are better of late). There's no reason
               | you should get to baggage claim ahead of the baggage.
               | 
               | Somewhat OT, but I just realized I've never flown
               | internationally from Dulles. I've flown internationally a
               | fair amount, and I've flown from Dulles a _lot_ , but
               | never the two together.
               | 
               | Less OT, everything I wrote was for domestic flights.
        
               | kiwijamo wrote:
               | IAD is the only airport I've been to where I've spent an
               | hour at immigration and then walked through to the
               | luggage claims hall to find that my airline's ground
               | handler still hadn't loaded bags from my flight on the
               | carousel (note this was a full hour at least after
               | arrival) so I had to wait even longer there! Every other
               | port I've had long immigration processing, the good thing
               | was my bags were usually already on the carousel.
               | Interestingly, LAX on the other hand was a breeze, my
               | bags was already on the carousel just as I walked in the
               | hall. A brisk walk to intercept my bag as it rolled
               | around and I was outside within minuites. YMMV but IAD is
               | not an airport I'm keen to use anytime soon! :)
        
               | interestica wrote:
               | > They were a clever idea at the time, but they're hardly
               | "lounges" these days. They're just buses, at a time when
               | you really, really don't want to be taking a bus.
               | 
               | Yeah they're definitely just buses that can open on each
               | end at this point. They aspired to be lounges and they
               | kind of convey (ha) what could have been. An actual
               | automated mobile lounge isn't that crazy, right?
               | Automation+batter power does make it more appealing.
        
               | lmm wrote:
               | You don't really want to be in a lounge at all after
               | getting off, you just want to get where you're going.
               | That's why most airports have lounges in departures but
               | not in arrivals. A lounge that you could wait in until
               | boarding time and have it pull up to your plane then
               | might be nice, but with today's "security" procedures
               | you'd need to have all of that built into the mobile
               | section as well, which seems difficult.
        
           | alamortsubite wrote:
           | Care for an extra dollop of motion sickness after your long
           | flight? Welcome aboard the IAD people movers!
        
       | beardyw wrote:
       | Is "autonomous ground operation" a valid ambition in and of
       | itself? Surely it needs qualification
       | 
       | - which means that ...
        
         | eastbound wrote:
         | Next step: Going down from your plane, your Apple Video Bus
         | strolls around the tarmac, passes through a giant Xray scanner,
         | checks your passport (embedded on your seat), suggests a
         | thousand duty-free products and makes you wear a luxury watch
         | for about 8 seconds just for marketing, rolls straight onto the
         | highway and drops you off at the hotel. No airport facilities.
        
       | wantsanagent wrote:
       | Any chance we can get the title modified to read "Schiphol
       | airport ..." as many won't know if this is a company, a town, or
       | what until paragraph 4 of the press release?
        
         | k8sToGo wrote:
         | Schipol is quite a famous airport, though.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I'd be quite confident that the vast majority of people who
           | don't live in or travel to Europe a lot have never heard of
           | it.
        
           | wantsanagent wrote:
           | I only learned about it _last week_ because I was considering
           | a trip to Amsterdam. But I 'm also happy to have "airport"
           | added to "JFK" "ORD" or "SFO" which strike me as obviously
           | airports.
        
           | Sirizarry wrote:
           | Never heard of schipol. I'm sure there are many things I
           | think are very famous that you've never heard of as well.
           | World is big yadda yadda I think two words to explain what a
           | schipol was would be nice is all
        
         | isodev wrote:
         | It's literally Amsterdam Airport? I don't think it needs
         | clarification. It's like saying "JFK/Heathrow/LAX conducts
         | trial with self-driving buses on airside"
        
           | afavour wrote:
           | I think OP is saying people don't know that. Like, similarly,
           | someone might say "What is JFK?" in your example.
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | Hum... I don't automatically read any of those names as
           | airports. The title is a bit clear because of the "airside",
           | but people that don't have lots of experiency in airports
           | won't recognize that word either.
        
           | ChrisClark wrote:
           | I have no idea where JFK or Heathrow airports are. Next time
           | please include a location in your message too. ;)
        
           | jajko wrote:
           | Half of people I know wouldnt recognize LAX just casually
           | mentioned, you may realize 95% of human population doesnt
           | live in US and folks from many backgrounds come here.
           | 
           | I for example know the name only due to flying to/from it
           | during work & travel stint during university times, otherwise
           | nope. Simply not that famous in Europe, even JFK as an
           | airport name aint guaranteed to be recognized here (but more
           | than LAX).
        
         | LAC-Tech wrote:
         | It's a pretty big global airport, isn't it? Maybe for freight
         | more than passangers, but I definitely know the name and I've
         | never been to the Netherlands.
         | 
         | A quick look on wikipedia says it has about the same passenger
         | and freight numbers as JFK, though I guess that's more well
         | known because of all the sitcoms set in New York.
        
         | traceroute66 wrote:
         | > many won't know if this is a company, a town, or what until
         | paragraph 4 of the press release?
         | 
         | The word "airside" in the title already gives a pretty enormous
         | clue !
        
           | jprete wrote:
           | I think there's enough uncertainty in the post where assuming
           | it's an airport would have a significant chance of being
           | wrong. Nobody enjoys being corrected on a mistaken "obvious"
           | assumption.
        
         | starmftronajoll wrote:
         | I'm with you! I thought it was a town for most of the release.
         | I didn't know what "airside" meant either, pardon my ignorance.
         | I've never encountered that word in American English.
        
         | Schiphol wrote:
         | Seconded
        
       | sandworm101 wrote:
       | >> to investigate what the advantages of autonomous transport can
       | be and what employees think of it.
       | 
       | Lets not kid ourselves. The only real "advantage" would have been
       | one less driver earning a paycheck.
       | 
       | I've been on the airside passenger busses at Schipol. They move
       | faster than the average bus. I cannot see this tiny thing ever
       | competing with those pro drivers.
        
         | flemhans wrote:
         | Availability outside hours where it's not currently feasible to
         | have a driver.
         | 
         | Immunity to strikes, illness, and all those pesky complexities
         | with meat and flesh
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | > Lets not kid ourselves. The only real "advantage" would have
         | been one less driver earning a paycheck.
         | 
         | Given that all modern, developed countries have to fight with a
         | population decrease, this is actually a good thing. We have to
         | prepare for a future where there will be barely anyone left to
         | do relatively low-skill jobs, and the earlier we begin to
         | automate them, the better - otherwise, we'll be in quite the
         | bind in a decade or two, once the last boomers that work high
         | into their 80s just to survive are finally dead.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | Yes they are among the fastest buses I've ever been on. They
         | drive like they are on a race track.
        
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