[HN Gopher] JetZero: Ultra-efficient blended wing body jet
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       JetZero: Ultra-efficient blended wing body jet
        
       Author : belter
       Score  : 103 points
       Date   : 2024-03-27 16:43 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.jetzero.aero)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.jetzero.aero)
        
       | idontwantthis wrote:
       | Are those windows on top of the plane? Would seeing the empty sky
       | above you be a good thing for passengers?
        
         | bakies wrote:
         | Definitely want them closed on long-hauls, but would be nice
         | for light on domestic flights... Could also wear eye covers I
         | guess.
        
         | someplaceguy wrote:
         | > Would seeing the empty sky above you be a good thing for
         | passengers?
         | 
         | I would imagine seeing the ground above you to be much worse
         | for passengers...
        
           | i5heu wrote:
           | Maybe a looping from times to times would reduce the fear of
           | space above the passengers.
        
             | pwagland wrote:
             | And it would make those warnings about your baggage maybe
             | having moved in flight much more notable.
        
             | canucker2016 wrote:
             | ...until all those people, who don't wear seatbelts while
             | seated, end up falling to the ceiling and then falling to
             | the floor.
             | 
             | Anything not held down - imagine all the laptops and
             | electronic gear - flying around the cabin...
        
           | forgetfreeman wrote:
           | Except for the sociopath in B3 who gets off on all the
           | screaming...
        
         | Arelius wrote:
         | They are called skylights in buildings, I have to imagine being
         | able to let in more natural light into the cabin, especially in
         | a plane with such a wide body and corresponding distance
         | between side windows is a generally good thing for humans.
        
           | sleepybrett wrote:
           | I always thought you didn't want to do this because of UV
           | exposure and heat reasons...
        
             | cm2187 wrote:
             | Plus occasionally the sun will shine straight into
             | someone's head.
        
               | netsharc wrote:
               | If only someone would invent electrochromic windows...
        
               | ada1981 wrote:
               | or manual pull shades.
        
               | ada1981 wrote:
               | this happens in regular aircraft all the time.
        
             | cchance wrote:
             | Both are blocked with any decent coating to block UV and IR
        
         | itishappy wrote:
         | Surprisingly so! Humans really don't like being confined, and
         | travel is stressful enough as it is...
         | 
         | One of the options for my senior design project (~5 years ago)
         | was designing an artificial skylight for a hyperloop-style
         | vehicle. Evacuated tubes make natural lighting difficult, and
         | they'd already determined this was going to be a major hurdle
         | for making the thing an attractive option for passenger
         | transit. They wanted it to respond to the vehicles movements as
         | well. Cool project!
        
       | tintor wrote:
       | Side windows only for business class. How to make economy even
       | more miserable.
        
         | nashashmi wrote:
         | sunroof windows coming soon.
        
           | ElijahLynn wrote:
           | That would be really nice!
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Side windows only for business class_
         | 
         | I'm currently in a lay-flat seat home from Europe. Center
         | aisles. Nobody at the windows ever opened them.
        
           | jurassicfoxy wrote:
           | In Economy (not lay-flat) the best feature of having a window
           | is about having a wall next to you for sleeping, not for
           | sight-seeing.
        
         | makestuff wrote:
         | The best will be when the double decker economy seats start to
         | be installed. /s
        
         | ElijahLynn wrote:
         | On recent flights, I was surprised how many people who somehow
         | chose a window seat, closed the window, during broad daylight.
         | This is a big change from when I was younger, where so many
         | more people had the window open and were interested in seeing
         | what was outside. I wonder what changed? Is it phones? Is it
         | sleep debt? Is it that they have flown 100 times now and the
         | novelty is gone?
         | 
         | I always love listening to music and looking out the window.
        
       | i5heu wrote:
       | Is there anything more then nice renders? Like a model that works
       | or something?
        
         | slater wrote:
         | https://aviationweek.com/aerospace/emerging-technologies/faa...
        
           | pwagland wrote:
           | Cool:
           | 
           | JetZero's four-year development plan is due to culminate in
           | flight tests of the full-scale demonstrator beginning in the
           | first quarter of 2027. Sized around the capacity of a Boeing
           | 767 with a wingspan close to that of an Airbus A330, the
           | demonstrator will be built and tested in collaboration with
           | Northrop Grumman and its prototyping subsidiary Scaled
           | Composites.
           | 
           | It's an ambitious plan though, given that they have only just
           | been granted licenses for their 1:8 scale model.
        
           | mey wrote:
           | How hard is it to get clearance from the FAA to fly a large
           | drone? This seems to indicate they are very very early in the
           | development process.
        
       | thePhytochemist wrote:
       | Haha, nice timing that this appears after the "why are airplanes
       | so hard to build?" article! Putting the engines to radiate sound
       | upwards does make a lot of sense.
        
         | ralfd wrote:
         | Link? Search can't find it.
        
         | tekla wrote:
         | We don't put engines on top because it makes maintenance alot
         | harder.
        
           | abadpoli wrote:
           | Also safety. Uncontained engine failures shouldn't ever
           | happen (and maybe happen less as technology gets better), but
           | when they do happen, it's better for them to be under the
           | wing away from the fuselage rather than right in the path of
           | critical control systems.
           | 
           | Since this is a blended wing with no vertical stabilizer, it
           | might be different, but it does still look like there are
           | control surfaces right next to the engines..
        
             | thesh4d0w wrote:
             | > it's better for them to be under the wing away from the
             | fuselage rather than right in the path of critical control
             | systems
             | 
             | but.... all the control surfaces are on the wing right next
             | to that engine.
        
               | abadpoli wrote:
               | Ailerons and flaps are, but elevators and rudder that
               | control the yaw and pitch of an aircraft are in the tail.
               | See United Flight 232.
        
           | JorgeGT wrote:
           | There's also the issue of ingesting the turbulent/detached
           | boundary layer of the fuselage at high angles of attack,
           | causing inlet distortions and the corresponding risk of
           | compressor stall.
        
         | olleromam91 wrote:
         | I was intrigued, but acoustically it doesn't make a lot of
         | sense really...the thrust exhaust where all the fast moving air
         | comes out, also happens to be where all the loud comes out too.
         | Their renderings don't look like the engines are far enough
         | forward for the fuselage to provide any significant
         | obstructions to the path of sound from the exhaust down to the
         | ground.
        
         | ElijahLynn wrote:
         | I think that is what Nasa's X-59 plane that is doing to
         | eliminate/minimize the sonic boom too. Pushing the boom
         | upwards.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jAH-51feAA (Cleo Abram - NASA
         | Is Bringing Supersonic Planes BACK)
        
       | karmajunkie wrote:
       | I feel like I see these kinds of proposed improvements to air
       | travel (e.g. this, improved seat designs, improved volumes, etc),
       | and yet, we're still flying in the same basic design with ever-
       | smaller seat allocations as we have for decades. What are the
       | chances planes like this will actually see the light of day in
       | our lifetimes? It feels like i'm more likely to see fusion become
       | a realistic contributor to the power grid than I am to see air
       | travel change in any noticeable way (for the common flier at
       | least, discounting fares like transoceanic business class).
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _we 're still flying in the same basic design with ever-
         | smaller seat allocations as we have for decades_
         | 
         | We have a rent-seeking duopoly of airframe designers. The
         | history of commercial air frames ended in the era of the
         | Concorde.
         | 
         | What we need is competition, and national leadership willing to
         | bet on it.
        
           | tekla wrote:
           | No, aircraft frames are the way they are because they balance
           | the billion different requirements the best. A blended wing
           | body is nothing new.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _aircraft frames are the way they are because they
             | balance the billion different requirements the best. A
             | blended wing body is nothing new_
             | 
             | One big one being the fixed cost of new air frame
             | development and certification. Nobody would incur that
             | expense unless forced to by the competition.
        
               | tekla wrote:
               | And yet new airframes do get certified.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _yet new airframes do get certified_
               | 
               | Last one was the 737 Max in 2017. It's a derivative. The
               | last truly new frames were the 787 in 2011 and A380 in
               | 2006. Both focussed on subsystems, propulsion and
               | materials for their novelty; only one has been a
               | commercial success.
               | 
               | One successful (two attempted) new airframes in over two
               | decades is extraordinarily slower than the pre-
               | consolidation frequency. It is also notable that neither
               | attempted to introduce a new air frame that directly
               | competes with the other's; Airbus and Boeing trade market
               | segments. There is zero head-to-head competition.
               | 
               | Modern planes are a marvel of engineering. And newer
               | planes are more comfortable. That doesn't change that
               | we're stuck in a local optimum due to a cessation of risk
               | taking.
        
               | tekla wrote:
               | Why do you keep thinking competition is what prevented
               | blended wing bodies? Blended wing bodies make big trade
               | offs that don't neatly fit with commercial flight.
               | 
               | The analysis of different lifting bodies is fairly
               | fundamental aeronautical engineering work every student
               | learns. There is no weird conspiracy here.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Why do you keep thinking competition is what prevented
               | blended wing bodies?_
               | 
               | Never said as much. OP asked why all planes since the 70s
               | look about the same. It's because there isn't a sustained
               | budget for experimentation.
               | 
               | > _no weird conspiracy_
               | 
               | Never said as much. It's not exactly groundbreaking for
               | entrenched supplies to cease innovating and focus on
               | extraction.
        
               | notahacker wrote:
               | There's been more competition in the regional market
               | including clean sheet designs by new entrants, but
               | they're all conventional tubes and wings and podded
               | turbofans too. China's state funded A320/737 competitor
               | is a clone with a shared engine platform too.
               | 
               | Improving on current generation airliners is _hard_
               | compared with improving what flew between 1920 and 1950,
               | and consolidation happened because it wasn 't profitable.
               | Airlines and financiers don't like uncertainty either.
        
               | ClarkMarx wrote:
               | The A350, a clean sheet composite design, was certified
               | in 2014.
        
               | Ekaros wrote:
               | A220 in 2015 I think was also clean sheet.
        
             | shash wrote:
             | Both of you are correct - there is a duopoly because of the
             | complexity, and the duopoly has no real incentive to
             | change, given that the current local optimum seems to be
             | working for the foreseeable future. There is no pressure to
             | innovate, and a strong one to keep the status quo.
        
               | mannykannot wrote:
               | And yet efficiency gains are vigorously pursued and
               | adopted, where real - and most recently, that has been
               | with engines and composites. Meanwhile, the blended-wing
               | concept has been experimented with for over a century,
               | and it has never demonstrated a compelling improvement.
               | Until I see a proposal that comes with a paper explaining
               | what recent innovation has made things different this
               | time, I will remain skeptical.
        
               | RachelF wrote:
               | I am sceptical, too. There are no efficiency numbers on
               | their website, just marketing boilerplate.
               | 
               | In terms of pure frontal area, their design looks fatter.
               | 
               | Would be interesting to see some drag data from wind
               | tunnel tests.
        
           | stetrain wrote:
           | The airframe designers don't decide the seat space per
           | passenger.
           | 
           | They can include all of the spacious reclining seats and
           | lounge sofas as they want in the design, and airlines will
           | spec it with seats and seat pitches that produce the greatest
           | profit per flight by maximizing the number of passengers
           | within the limits of safety regulations.
        
         | ordinaryradical wrote:
         | Airplanes have changed, but in ways not immediately visible.
         | 
         | The Dreamliner is something like 80% composites by volume now,
         | a material profile almost unthinkable 30 years ago.
         | 
         | But the visual dynamics of the design changes have been far
         | less dramatic.
         | 
         | I do think we may see things change significantly with eVTOLs
         | and battery tech improvements.
         | 
         | Major increases in energy density plus solid state (for safety)
         | would probably trigger a Tesla-fication, and at that point the
         | incumbents will inevitably be late adopters and some upstart is
         | going to build something new looking.
         | 
         | Finally, if shape-memory polymers ever really take off, we
         | could see some exciting things. Imagine a dynamically shaping
         | airfoil, or, way out there, a wing which can translate itself
         | from wide body to delta with almost no moving parts required to
         | do so.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _Dreamliner is something like 80% composites by volume now,
           | a material profile almost unthinkable 30 years ago_
           | 
           | This--and no bleed air, fly by wire, _et cetera_ --are big.
           | But not on the level of air frame improvements. We've been
           | stuck in a local optimum due to overconsolidation for decades
           | now. We're seeing it bleed into safety simply because
           | complacence evolved into corruption.
        
             | nurple wrote:
             | Excellently said.
             | 
             | I would love to see a regulatory world where
             | experimentation outside of the high-end is more prolific.
             | Even the constraints that were put on UAVs by the FAA have
             | stifled that spirit in a real way.
             | 
             | Where is the hacker culture in aviation that we've been
             | amazed by in the AI space? Even people doing cool things as
             | small groups, like the black arrow guys, are just building
             | in the same local minima.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | > Where is the hacker culture in aviation that we've been
               | amazed by in the AI space?
               | 
               | I mean, if you mess up your AI model, it generates photos
               | of black Nazis or people with an extra arm. Everyone
               | laughs at you a bit.
               | 
               | If you mess up your plane, it kills people. There are
               | absolutely people building experimental aircraft, but for
               | good reasons there's a bit more caution involved.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | > Where is the hacker culture in aviation that we've been
               | amazed by in the AI space? Even people doing cool things
               | as small groups, like the black arrow guys, are just
               | building in the same local minima.
               | 
               | Well, a basic body + wings shape, anyone with moderate
               | skill can construct that with a kit in their garden shed
               | and fly it.
               | 
               | But all these exotic design ideas? These require immense
               | amounts of compute power to design them so that they'll
               | actually take off and _substantial_ investment into
               | manufacturing tooling to manufacture them, far surpassing
               | the capabilities of all but a very few very rich
               | hobbyists, and people with that kind of money generally
               | don 't subject themselves to the high operational risk of
               | general aviation. Even in cars there's no one working on
               | home-builds for carbon composite stuff, and the potential
               | for failures and the risk of said failures to not just
               | the pilot but everyone on the ground there is orders of
               | magnitude lower than with planes.
               | 
               | And on top of that come the regulatory issues associated
               | with anything that flies. There are many MANY MANY orders
               | of magnitude less people with pilot licenses in the first
               | place, most of Europe doesn't allow flights from anything
               | else than a licensed airstrip (although the US is
               | different there IIRC), and new designs require an immense
               | amount of certification paperwork, which is also the
               | reason why it took until last year to get unleaded fuel
               | certified (whose rollout will take at least 3-5 years).
        
           | cm2187 wrote:
           | Pressurisation is better. In the 90s I would always have ear
           | pains, which happened to me only once in the last 15 years,
           | on an old brazilian b777.
        
             | jajko wrote:
             | Not sure if this is true, you can see that on any device
             | with pressure meter (basically all 'smart' watches and
             | phones), the standards are 2000-2500m altitude. Once you
             | can create an altitude X inside the plane, you can do say
             | 70% of X too.
             | 
             | Maybe just your condition improved?
        
               | IndrekR wrote:
               | New composite ones like A350 and Dreamliner have cabin
               | altitude of ~1800m
        
         | zonkerdonker wrote:
         | This is a multifaceted issue, involving the duopoly of
         | commercial airline manufacturers, strict regulation, and
         | massive subsidies.
         | 
         | It costs Boeing 10s of billions of dollars and usually around a
         | decade to design an aircraft from a clean sheet, with very
         | little incentive for truly disruptive innovation. Developing
         | and testing a wholly new design like this would probably take
         | double the time and more than double the cost. When your
         | assembly, all testing, designs, control systems, and pilots
         | have been optimized "wings on a tube" shape for 70+ years, I'd
         | imagine it's difficult to pivot the core design that
         | drastically.
         | 
         | I'm hoping to see some of the government subsidies shifted
         | towards more competition with Boeing's recent failures, but
         | lobbying is powerful, so we'll see.
        
         | nurple wrote:
         | I agree. I am disappointed that NASA abdigated its role in
         | driving forward not only space but aviation to commercial
         | interests. It made, and still makes, many people very rich, but
         | profit motives lead to the masses to feeling, and being
         | handled, like cattle.
         | 
         | I'm particularly frustrated by the dearth of general aviation
         | as a means of travel outside of the wealthy. We built small
         | airports EVERYWHERE, and in most cases they sit rotting in
         | rural areas instead of being hubs of inter-city trade.
         | 
         | I have plans to change that, but the aviation space is
         | notoriously coin-operated and high impedance. Even with funding
         | it's going to require some serious SV-style hacking to change
         | anything meaningfully.
        
       | bane wrote:
       | My understanding that the difficult part of these blended wing
       | concepts is the uneven volume of the aircraft makes
       | pressurization difficult.
        
       | atonse wrote:
       | Totally random but why does this website need a cookie pop up?
       | What would a Jet company need with my cross domain browsing data?
        
         | durkie wrote:
         | also the site is "protected" by dmca.com
        
         | closewith wrote:
         | They're using Hubspot as their CRM and all the tracking that
         | comes with that.
         | 
         | They also use Google Fonts, which Google says is not used for
         | tracking, but the EU disagrees.
        
         | chessgecko wrote:
         | Probably the same analytics/funnel bs that's everywhere these
         | days. Though in this case the users are probably vcs not
         | buyers.
        
         | geodel wrote:
         | Well, they want to see what other jets you are buying and give
         | you a good deal on in-flight entertainment, or free fuel for 2
         | cross Atlantic trips if you buy their jet.
        
         | aorloff wrote:
         | Because otherwise they would have to make sure they don't need
         | a cookie popup, and nobody is ever sure of that with modern
         | marketing stacks
        
           | cchance wrote:
           | THIS! I put cookie popups on basically all my sites just to
           | avoid having to screw with figuring out what minor analytics
           | cookie might break some law somewhere.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | At this point, it is probably just good practice to have it on
         | every site. I imagine it is a default in every template now.
        
           | zbentley wrote:
           | Good practice for whom?
        
             | codr7 wrote:
             | The people who make the rules?
        
             | MattGaiser wrote:
             | Anyone who has a website. It is zero downside butt
             | coverage.
        
             | cchance wrote:
             | Every website owner, that doesn't want to get shit on
             | because they forgot to notify you they're dropping a cookie
             | because they use google analytics or something else to
             | monitor their site data.
        
       | yabones wrote:
       | Unless this has the capacity of a 737-700 / Max-7, there's no way
       | six emergency exits are enough. They're also all up at the front,
       | making egress difficult if an isle is blocked.
       | 
       | Yes, it's a nitpick, but if that's a design flaw that jumps out
       | to a complete amateur with moderate aviation knowledge and no
       | industry experience, it doesn't inspire a great deal of
       | confidence.
        
         | rozab wrote:
         | This is part of why Boeing shut down the idea back in the 90s
         | iirc.
         | 
         | But I think this company is not actually aiming to develop an
         | airliner at all, it just makes for pretty pictures. Their
         | demonstrator is being built for the USAF (along with Northrop
         | Grumman and Scaled Composites), with a view to being used as a
         | tanker and transport.
         | 
         | I'm sceptical. Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Airbus have all
         | investigated this exact concept over the last few decades, and
         | none have gone forward with it.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Airbus have all investigated
           | this exact concept over the last few decades, and none have
           | gone forward with it_
           | 
           | Low incentives for taking risks and massive improvements in
           | CAD and computer testing. A new airframe should always bring
           | scepticism. But as someone with aerospace engineering
           | training, it's somewhat funny to see the space side of the
           | market seeing more competition and thus innovation than the
           | aero.
        
             | tekla wrote:
             | I don't think its THAT particularly surprising.
             | 
             | The old school rocket engines are still some of the most
             | efficient engines ever created and most rockets never had a
             | strong commercial market backing it so there was never
             | pressure to try something else. The RS68 and RS25 are still
             | amazing pieces of technology.
             | 
             | SpaceX succeeded because they were able to take advantage
             | of NASA literally creating a commercial market (and also
             | making an amazing engine that is "good enough" for 99% of
             | payloads)
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _old school rocket engines are still some of the most
               | efficient engines ever created_
               | 
               | Sure. But there are other niches than maximal ISP. SpaceX
               | and other launch providers have demonstrated it.
               | 
               | In both cases--airlines and rocketry--there was latent
               | demand once someone looked for it. And in both cases, I
               | believe, public support is necessary.
        
               | notahacker wrote:
               | I think the person suggesting their more realistic short
               | term goal is defense funding for future USAF tanker
               | contracts might not be too far from the mark.
               | 
               | Whether the fuel economy of an airliner-sized tanker is
               | enough to convince doubting airline execs facing very
               | different operational constraints is another question.
        
           | mdasen wrote:
           | I'm skeptical too, but part I wouldn't necessarily write it
           | off because a company like Boeing hasn't gone forward with
           | it. Boeing won't even go forward with a redesign of the 737,
           | preferring to go the cheaper route of continually modifying
           | an existing design from the 1960s.
           | 
           | I do think there are other concepts that are farther along
           | and have more promise like the Aurora D8 "double bubble"
           | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_D8). Its design isn't
           | as much of a departure, but it would still reduce fuel burn
           | and noise significantly. Likewise, Boeing's TTBW (transsonic
           | truss braced wing) design is promising especially since they
           | have a full-sized demonstrator at this point.
           | 
           | But companies have been hesitant to invest in new types of
           | aircraft. It's an industry that's essentially a duopoly where
           | the big two have a decade worth of orders for their current
           | aircraft. There isn't even a lot of competition between the
           | two because neither has the capacity to produce more planes
           | if they create something that airlines want. The A380 was
           | probably the biggest risk that's been taken recently and that
           | turned out to be a pretty big failure. I don't think either
           | Boeing or Airbus wants to take risks when they have pretty
           | guaranteed profits by staying the course. Boeing has even
           | shelved its plans for the Boeing NMA (new midsize airplane)
           | to replace the 737.
           | 
           | I'd also add that these projects often end up learning
           | important things about aeronautics even if they don't become
           | things you fly on. For example, one of the big things with
           | the Aurora D8 was figuring out how to deal with boundary
           | layer ingestion inefficiencies. Even if the D8 never becomes
           | something you'll fly on, the knowledge gained there might be
           | used in other planes that you will fly on.
           | 
           | You're right to be skeptical and I am too. It's really
           | difficult to bring a new plane to market. However, I'm not
           | sure I'd take Boeing and Airbus' reticence as evidence that
           | it isn't worth exploring more. We've been talking about the
           | bean counters taking over Boeing for months now and
           | complaining about Boeing continually modifying the 737 rather
           | than creating a new plane. Is it likely we'll be flying on
           | these things? No. Even if it's a good and viable design,
           | there's so much beyond that to get done. Actually
           | manufacturing something as complex as a plane is very hard -
           | there's a reason Airbus and Boeing have a decade long backlog
           | of orders. But there's also a reason why places like NASA
           | want to fund experimental projects like this - because there
           | aren't really incentives for companies like Boeing to take
           | risks on new designs.
           | 
           | I mean, you're right: this probably won't happen. At the same
           | time, I think it's important to keep trying because sometimes
           | these things do work and even when they don't work we often
           | learn important things that can be applied in the future.
        
         | interestica wrote:
         | Those skylights? Just pop em out to exit in a hurry.
        
           | hermitcrab wrote:
           | Only if it is inverted.
        
         | fakedang wrote:
         | This is a valid point, but as a hobbyist pilot, damn that
         | aircraft is beautiful. It may not replace the Boeing, but it
         | would certainly replace a Gulfstream or Pilatus.
        
       | lettergram wrote:
       | What I will say, is their board of advisors is impressive -
       | https://www.jetzero.aero/company
       | 
       | And they have many roles open.
       | 
       | To me this seems like it has a decent shot. I do wonder if they
       | should focus on one category (e.g. tanker) or something that'll
       | get it off the ground.
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | Maybe, and I'd love to see aviation innovation (ahem) take off,
         | but...
         | 
         | https://www.businessinsider.com/theranos-former-board-member...
         | 
         | I'd be careful how much I take from just a fancy list of board
         | members.
        
           | relativ575 wrote:
           | It's different:
           | 
           |  _Holmes ' board going into the scandal included an unusual
           | roster of names for a healthcare startup, with leaders who
           | had more experience in politics and government than
           | healthcare_
           | 
           | OTOH, JetZero's board include former executives of:
           | 
           | Airbus
           | 
           | Learjet
           | 
           | Gulfstream
           | 
           | AirFrance KLM
           | 
           | Pratt & Whitney
           | 
           | Major aircraft and jet engine makers as well as airlines. In
           | other words, very strong industry knowledge and connections.
        
       | jack_riminton wrote:
       | How much more expensive would this shape be to build?
        
       | dver wrote:
       | Company that was trying this design for a kit built GA BWB.
       | 
       | http://www.wingco.com/index.html
       | 
       | Looking at the site, this is 20 years ago now since the last
       | update, a taxi test accident appears to have ended the project.
        
       | martinky24 wrote:
       | I like how they suggest the new body design will lead to improved
       | comfort and space for passengers.
       | 
       | Absolutely no way -- they'll find a way to fill it as tight as
       | possible.
        
         | RajT88 wrote:
         | Depends on the airline.
         | 
         | RyanAir would.
         | 
         | Air Emirates would figure out how to cram a discotech into the
         | back.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _JetZero 's ultra-efficient blended wing demonstrator cleared
       | for takeoff_
       | 
       | https://newatlas.com/aircraft/jetzero-blended-wing-demonstra...
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | Blended wing body jets have a number of disadvantages:
       | 
       | * Low ratio of window seats may not be acceptable to passengers
       | 
       | * Passengers seated at the edges will experience greater positive
       | and negative g-forces when rolling
       | 
       | * Don't fit well into existing airports for parking, jet bridges,
       | etc.
       | 
       | * More difficult to design for pressurization than a tube
        
         | nurple wrote:
         | Never really thought about how being far from the centerline
         | would change how much/quickly you move in a roll, I can
         | definitely see that feeling being unnerving, expecially the
         | inevetable(though rare?) negative G moments.
        
         | geoffeg wrote:
         | > * Low ratio of window seats may not be acceptable to
         | passengers
         | 
         | Is that really a problem though? A lot of window passengers
         | seem to close the window almost as soon as they get in their
         | seat.
        
           | Cerium wrote:
           | Sure isn't a problem on long-haul where the windows stay shut
           | the whole time.
        
         | snakeyjake wrote:
         | This specific model of BWB, when overlayed with a 737/A320
         | seems to put the outer-most passengers at the approximate
         | location of the nacelles on the narrow-body aircraft.
         | 
         | The nacelles on a 737 are BARELY wider than an A380. Is
         | differential force an issue on the A380? It is one of the only
         | models of commercial aircraft I have never flown on.
        
       | Solvency wrote:
       | How can anyone take this site seriously? It looks looks some
       | stock Joomla nonsense from 2008 with a few cheap CG mock-ups of a
       | jet that look amateurish at best. Not a god look for a company
       | claiming to disrupt the jet space.
        
         | ElijahLynn wrote:
         | They do have a video, fwiw, from the CEO.
         | 
         | https://www.jetzero.aero/
        
       | hagbard_c wrote:
       | Hm, haven't we seen this before? Yes, we did:
       | 
       | 2019: https://www.flightglobal.com/programmes/flying-v-concept-
       | rec...
       | 
       | 2020: https://www.businessinsider.com/klm-royal-dutch-airlines-
       | fut...
       | 
       |  _A prototype of KLM Royal Dutch Airlines ' futuristic-looking
       | flying-wing aircraft just took its first flight in Germany --
       | take a look at the Flying-V_
       | 
       | That one was closer to a V-shape while this contender fills up
       | the space between the V's legs with more seating.
       | 
       | May the best one win...
        
       | Gravityloss wrote:
       | Put a price on carbon and there might be suddenly some space for
       | more innovation in airliners.
       | 
       | Right now it makes sense to fly old planes even when they're less
       | efficient since fuel is cheap.
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | Fuel prices are just one factor. Airlines prefer underwing
         | engines for ease of maintenance. Mechanics can reach everything
         | with a simple ladder.
        
         | Kognito wrote:
         | Any evidence for this?
         | 
         | Airliners have steadily gotten more fuel efficient at a rate of
         | about 1.3% per year since the 1960s, driven by fierce
         | competition.
         | 
         | If someone could produce a massively more efficient design then
         | there'd be huge interest but when the risk of failure is so
         | high, why would manufacturers take a chance instead of
         | iterating on what is already proven?
        
       | ElijahLynn wrote:
       | What this means to me, if not vaporware, is that either ticket
       | prices will go down for the same space or I'll get much more room
       | and not be so crammed into the seat. Maybe we can ride with more
       | comfort, and have more standing moving room, like a train.
        
       | kqr wrote:
       | The 1930 outline looks like a DC-3. Can someone name the others?
       | I'm especially curious about 1949.
        
       | cchance wrote:
       | I mean at this point anythings better than fucking boeing.
        
       | thelittleone wrote:
       | The seating mockup feels uncomfortable to me as the rows angle
       | towards one another. It's ok to face a stranger for a short train
       | ride, but on a long flight I'd feel less comfortable.
        
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