[HN Gopher] Daniel Kahneman has died
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Daniel Kahneman has died
        
       Author : mrjaeger
       Score  : 679 points
       Date   : 2024-03-27 15:09 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | wow ..didn't realize he was so old .He was always on the tips of
       | people's tongues, never seemed old or dated or faded away even at
       | 90. He was at his peak intellectual influence or trajectory,
       | which is uncommon for someone so old; most careers peak at 40-60.
       | Not only that, his reputation fully unblemished and unmarred,
       | which is also increasingly uncommon.
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | It's hard to think of any public intellectual whose career was on
       | the peak of its trajectory as his was, and at such and advanced
       | age. Usually someone has a few ideas and they fade with time, but
       | not him. The neoclassical assumptions had crashed after 2008 and
       | this guy comes along with his books and upends the whole
       | economics establishment.
        
         | FabHK wrote:
         | The Chicago School was criticised not only by behavioural
         | economists and psychologists, though, but also by other (fairly
         | orthodox, eg New Keynesian) economists [0]. This is not to
         | distract from Kahneman's monumental contributions (many
         | together with Tversky, as narrated in the book _The Undoing
         | Project_ by Michael Lewis).
         | 
         | [0] see e.g.
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/magazine/06Economic-t.htm...
        
         | bwestergard wrote:
         | Perhaps Stiglitz, who similarly undermined faith in core
         | neoclassical assumptions?
        
       | toomuchtodo wrote:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman
       | 
       | https://kahneman.scholar.princeton.edu/
       | 
       | https://www.washingtonpost.com/obituaries/2024/03/27/daniel-... |
       | https://archive.today/tZY2w ("The Washington Post: Daniel
       | Kahneman, Nobel-winning economist, dies at 90")
       | 
       | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-27/daniel-ka... |
       | https://archive.today/MpDes ("Bloomberg: Daniel Kahneman,
       | Psychologist Who Upended Economics, Dies at 90")
        
       | OliverJones wrote:
       | Let us not forget his collaborator, Amos Tversky, who died young
       | in 1996, and who certainly would have been a co-prize-winner had
       | he lived.
        
       | zug_zug wrote:
       | I'm not one to give an exaggerated eulogy nor rhapsodize about
       | all those "Books with a white cover and a weird picture" -- but I
       | will say I read thinking fast and slow for the first time last
       | year, after decades of resisting, and felt it covered some
       | generally profound ideas that still are relevant as ever and not
       | widely understood.
       | 
       | (Though at some point, maybe the 2nd half of the book, drags on
       | and you can skip most of those chapters. If you don't have time
       | for that, I'm sure chat GPT can give you a taste of the main
       | premises and you can probe deeper from there.)
        
         | mistercow wrote:
         | It's worth noting that many of the results in Thinking, Fast
         | and Slow didn't hold up to replication.
         | 
         | It's still very much worth reading in its own right, but now
         | implicitly comes bundled with a game I like to call "calibrate
         | yourself on the replication crisis". Playing is simple: every
         | time the book mentions a surprising result, try to guess
         | whether it replicated. Then search online to see if you got it
         | right.
        
           | zug_zug wrote:
           | Yeah I wouldn't read too much into any single study. But what
           | I would defend vigorously is System1 / System2 distinction as
           | something so clear/fundamental that you can see it constantly
           | once you understand it.
        
             | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
             | That's not him though.
             | 
             | Like, it was in all my cog psych textbooks more than twenty
             | years ago, with cites back in the 80s (which weren't him).
             | 
             | This is my favourite paper of theirs:
             | http://stats.org.uk/statistical-
             | inference/TverskyKahneman197...
             | 
             | I got into a bunch of trouble with some reviewers of my
             | thesis for referencing this repeatedly.
        
             | gattilorenz wrote:
             | It's also very common in psychology theories, I haven't
             | read "Thinking, fast and slow" but I imagine there's more
             | than Kahneman's own papers cited:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_process_theory
        
               | zug_zug wrote:
               | wow, it looks like "dual process" theory is basically the
               | same thing.
               | 
               | I don't know if there's a better text on dual-process
               | theory out there (perhaps by the original authors), but
               | regardless of who originated it, I think it's something
               | worth learning about for everyone (and if you don't have
               | a better source then Thinking Fast and Slow is a very
               | good one).
        
             | rileyphone wrote:
             | It's just such a bad name though.
        
             | underdeserver wrote:
             | In software we often call it fastpath and slowpath :)
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | It's been called "emotion / intuition" and "logic" for
             | centuries or millennia before the goofy System name was
             | invented.
        
               | raincole wrote:
               | Ironically people like System 1/2 more than
               | intuition/logic because the terms sound more like they
               | are coined by System 2.
        
             | derbOac wrote:
             | ... except the distinction was being made in various forms
             | long before Kahneman, and does get questioned. When you
             | start to poke at it, what's intuitive starts to seem less
             | so.
             | 
             | https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1745691612460
             | 6...
             | 
             | (that's a link to a defense of dual process theories, but
             | it makes clear there's increasing criticism of them)
        
               | cjblomqvist wrote:
               | Does anyone have a link to a publicly accessible version
               | of this paper?
        
               | derbOac wrote:
               | I think this should work:
               | 
               | https://scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-
               | content/uploads/2014/04/dua...
               | 
               | There's review paper coming from a more critical
               | perspective in Psych Bulletin or Psych Review I was
               | looking for, but I couldn't find it atm.
        
           | paulpauper wrote:
           | I wonder if it's better to have a lot of small hits or a few
           | big hits and many misses in regard to replication. If the
           | studies which have the greatest implications replicate, then
           | maybe many misses is not that bad.
        
             | btilly wrote:
             | That's an interesting theoretical question.
             | 
             | Unfortunately the reality is that the more interesting and
             | quotable the result is, the less likely it is to replicate.
             | So replication problems most strongly hit things that seem
             | like they should have the greatest implications.
             | 
             | Kind of a "worst of all worlds" scenario.
        
               | ethanbond wrote:
               | And critically, scientific publications are incentivized
               | likewise to publish the most outlandish claims they can
               | possibly get away with. That same incentive affects
               | individual scientists, who disproportionately _submit_
               | the most outlandish claims they can possibly get away
               | with. The boring stuff -- true or not -- is not worth the
               | hassle of putting into a publishable article.
        
               | btilly wrote:
               | And then the most outlandish of these are picked up by
               | popular science writers. Who proceed to mangle it beyond
               | recognition, and add a random spin. This then goes to the
               | general public.
               | 
               | Some believe the resulting garbage. And wind up with
               | weird ideas.
               | 
               | Others use that garbage to justify throwing out
               | everything that scientists say. And then double down on
               | random conspiracy theories, denialism, and pseudoscience.
               | 
               | I wish there was a solution to this. But everyone is
               | actually following their incentives here. :-(
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | The scientists push it on the pop writers, to created a
               | Personal Brand and an industrial complex around their pet
               | theory.
        
           | btilly wrote:
           | The density of non-replicable results varies by chapter.
           | 
           | You can ignore anything said in chapter 4 about priming for
           | example.
           | 
           | See https://replicationindex.com/2020/12/30/a-meta-
           | scientific-pe... for more.
        
             | PheonixPharts wrote:
             | What's wild to me is that _anyone_ could read chapter 4 and
             | not look up the original papers in disbelief.
             | 
             | Long before the controversy was public I was reading that
             | book and, despite claims that the reader _must_ believe the
             | findings, it sounded like nonsense to me. So I looked up
             | the original paper to see what the experiment set up was,
             | and it was unquestionably a ridiculous conclusion to draw
             | from a deeply flawed experiment.
             | 
             | I still never understood how that chapter got through
             | without anyone else having the same reaction I did.
        
               | dwighttk wrote:
               | In those times, that was exactly the kind of thing that
               | people wanted to believe
        
               | foobiekr wrote:
               | I had exactly this reaction to Malcolm gladwell. It is
               | completely obvious that gladwell across multiple books
               | has never once read one of his references and
               | consistently misrepresents what they say.
        
               | kbenson wrote:
               | I have a slightly different take on him, which comes to
               | the same ultimate end on how I view his work.
               | 
               | As he's shifted from primarily a journalist to primarily
               | a storyteller, he's chosen to sacrifice additional
               | information and accuracy in lieu of telling a consistent
               | and compelling narrative that support what he thinks is
               | the important thing to take away, not necessarily what
               | you would take away were you to review all the same
               | information yourself.
               | 
               | Under that understanding, I find him fun to listen to.
               | The things he "reports" on/illuminates are interesting,
               | but at this point I don't assume he's giving them an even
               | handed representation, so his conclusions are not
               | necessarily my own, and at best it's a set of things to
               | look into and research myself if I find my interest
               | piqued after a fun or interesting story is told.
        
               | Nurw wrote:
               | Haha, yeah, I am reading the book these days, and I
               | clearly remember thinking that those effects seemed
               | really exaggerated.
        
             | amoshebb wrote:
             | is there a 'thinking fast and slow: the reproducible bits'
             | recut? I know with films there's fan made edits.
        
               | Benjammer wrote:
               | We need O'Reilly: The Good Parts for books...
        
             | mistermann wrote:
             | A fun question _especially considering the topic of the
             | thread_ : are propositions that lack proof necessarily
             | false?
        
               | kmacdough wrote:
               | No, but propositions with strong counter-evidence
               | generally are, which is the main topic here. "Not-
               | repicable" generally means "attempted to replicate, but
               | got results inconsistent with the original conclusion."
        
               | kbenson wrote:
               | A very good point (I'm not sure if it's relevant to the
               | book in question, as I haven't read it or if you're
               | referring just about the conversation so far). It seems
               | like many people will take a strong claim they are
               | dubious about, and on finding the evidence is sparse,
               | inconclusive, or missing, swing to assuming that
               | statement is false, instead of a more neutral position of
               | "I have no opinion or some reason to think is unlikely,
               | but others think it is unlikely even if poorly supported
               | or unsupported."
               | 
               | This tendency seems to be capitalized on fairly heavily
               | in political media by finding some poorly supported
               | assertion of the other side to criticize, which causes
               | people to assume the opposite is true.
        
               | Paul-Craft wrote:
               | > ...are propositions that lack proof necessarily false?
               | 
               | I'll have you know you just nearly nerd sniped a
               | mathematician ;-)
        
               | ilya_m wrote:
               | Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Or,
               | in less dramatic terms, if you cannot reject the null,
               | you should operate on the assumption that the null holds.
        
               | chefandy wrote:
               | Of course not, but the more important and difficult
               | questions address how we should reason about, evaluate,
               | and present ideas that lack proof.
        
               | btilly wrote:
               | Not necessarily false.
               | 
               | But such a small fraction of possible propositions are
               | true that it is unlikely to be worthwhile to waste much
               | time on propositions with no evidence.
        
             | localhost wrote:
             | This is exactly the kind of task that I want to deploy a
             | long context window model on: "rewrite Thinking Fast and
             | Slow taking into account the current state of research. Oh,
             | and do it in the voice, style and structure of Tim Urban
             | complete with crappy stick figure drawings."
        
               | paulolc wrote:
               | Awesome prompt!
        
               | freedomben wrote:
               | Same! Just earlier today I was wanting to do this with
               | "The Moral Animal" and "Guns, Germs, and Steel."
               | 
               | It's probably the AI thing I'm most excited about, and I
               | suspect we're not far from that, although I'm betting the
               | copyright battles are the primary obstacle to such a
               | future at this point.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | The thing with _Guns, Germs, and Steel_ is that it make
               | it essentially _all_ about geographic determinism. There
               | 's another book ( _Why the West Rules--For Now_ written
               | before China had really fully emerged on the stage) which
               | argues that, yes, geography played an important role in
               | which cores emerged earliest. BUT if you look at the
               | sweep of history, the eastern core was arguably more
               | advanced than the western core at various times. So a
               | head start can 't be the only answer.
        
               | usrnm wrote:
               | The book specifically considers Eurasia to be one
               | geographical region and it does acknowledge the
               | technological developments in China. The fact that Europe
               | became the winner in this race, according to GGS, is a
               | sign that while geography is important it does not
               | determine the course of history. It is not all about
               | geographic determinism
        
               | worik wrote:
               | It is a snapshot in time, and so wrong if viewed in a
               | longer context.
               | 
               | People from Europe, came to have the Industrial
               | Revolution at just the correct moment.
               | 
               | Some small changes in history and it would have happened
               | in India.
               | 
               | It is making a theory to fit the facts.
               | 
               | I do not think the author is a "white supremacist" but
               | the book reads like that. Taking all the accidents of
               | history and making them seem like destiny that Europeans
               | rule the world (they do not, they never did, and they are
               | fading from world domination fast)
        
               | pigeons wrote:
               | I thought the OP was joking!
        
               | abirch wrote:
               | I would actually like to have books that had "Thinking
               | Fast and Slow" as a prerequisite. Many data visualization
               | books could be summed up as a bar chart is easily
               | consumed by System 1. The visual noise creates mental
               | strain on System 2.
        
               | discreteevent wrote:
               | Then we just need the LLM that will rewrite your book
               | taking into account the current state of LLM
               | hallucination behaviour.
        
               | AtlasBarfed wrote:
               | "please finish game of thrones treating the impending
               | zombie invasion as an allegory for global warming"
               | 
               | Also please omit "who has a better story than bran"
        
               | stevage wrote:
               | Didn't George say it _is_ such an allegory?
        
               | iancmceachern wrote:
               | Not me, if I'm going to take the time to read something,
               | I want it to have been written, reviewed and edited by a
               | human. There is far too much high fidelity information to
               | assimilate that I'm missing out on to put in low fidelity
               | stuff
        
             | tgv wrote:
             | Isn't that because the replications only looked at a
             | selected subset of all the possible literature? You can be
             | almost sure that if an article's conclusion hinges on a
             | wide interpretation of the experimental result, or the
             | stimuli haven't been sampled properly (and who knows the
             | distribution of stimuli?) or the subjects are first year
             | psych students, and the proof is a rejection of the null
             | hypothesis, that it cannot be replicated. The worst
             | offenders are those that conclude their theory is true
             | because the theory they argue against is rejected.
        
           | cranium wrote:
           | For what it's worth, Kahnman answered a post that scrutinized
           | the effect of priming:
           | https://replicationindex.com/2017/02/02/reconstruction-
           | of-a-...
        
             | pigscantfly wrote:
             | Thanks for sharing this -- I read the book maybe a decade
             | ago and largely discounted it as non-replicable pop-sci;
             | this changed my opinion of Kahneman's perspective and rigor
             | (for the better!)
        
             | airstrike wrote:
             | It looks like it's a bit more nuanced than that. What I saw
             | from the link was some debate about what holds and what
             | doesn't for various forms of "priming"
        
           | coffeebeqn wrote:
           | The general idea is very simple. Tactical vs strategic
           | thinking are two different things and it's good to be aware
           | of that. I don't know that that needs to be proven or
           | disproven
        
             | EthanHeilman wrote:
             | 19th Century definition of tactics aas being everything
             | that happens within the range of cannons and strategy as
             | everything that happens outside of cannon range, fits well
             | to thinking fast (tactics) and slow (strategy).
        
           | sampo wrote:
           | > It's worth noting that many of the results in Thinking,
           | Fast and Slow didn't hold up to replication.
           | 
           | Irony is, Kahneman had himself written a paper warning about
           | generalizing from studies with small sample sizes:
           | 
           |  _" Suppose you have run an experiment on 20 subjects, and
           | have obtained a significant re- sult which confirms your
           | theory (z = 2.23, p < .05, two-tailed). You now have cause to
           | run an additional group of 10 subjects. What do you think the
           | probability is that the results will be significant, by a
           | one-tailed test, separately for this group?"_
           | 
           |  _" Apparently, most psychologists have an exaggerated belief
           | in the likelihood of successfully replicating an obtained
           | finding. The sources of such beliefs, and their consequences
           | for the conduct of scientific inquiry, are what this paper is
           | about."_
           | 
           | Then 40 years later, he fell into the same trap. He became
           | one of the "most psychologists".
           | 
           | http://stats.org.uk/statistical-
           | inference/TverskyKahneman197...
        
           | yawboakye wrote:
           | psychology isn't science. it's a grave mistake to
           | read/interpret it a such. does that mean it's useless? of
           | course not: some of the findings (and i use findings very
           | loosely) help us adjust our prior probabilities. if we're
           | right in the end, we were lucky. otherwise we just weren't.
        
             | andrelaszlo wrote:
             | That's an unexpected position for me.
             | 
             | How do you define science? Could it be a science, according
             | to you, or is there something fundamentally non-scientific
             | about it?
        
               | yawboakye wrote:
               | it's fundamentally unscientific at this point. much of
               | our current science lies in the realm of natural law. so
               | far we haven't found any laws that govern human behavior.
               | what we know, with considerable certainty, is that
               | behavior can be positively influenced. but at the point
               | of action, nothing we know of compels any
               | specific/predictable behavior. until we have found rigid
               | laws of reasons that apply to both the brute and the
               | civilized, any 'discoveries' of psychology are reports of
               | someone's idiosyncrasies, imho.
        
               | knightoffaith wrote:
               | Is it not scientific to say that X property is true of
               | human behavior more often that it is not with statistical
               | significance?
        
               | worik wrote:
               | > How do you define science?
               | 
               | Science is that which could be disproved.
               | 
               | It is a very small, and very important, part of human
               | knowledge.
        
               | knightoffaith wrote:
               | The history of science generally doesn't seem to be
               | characterized by shifts in theory due to empirical
               | disproofs. Usually, when theories are "disproved", we
               | don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but
               | rather, we want to stick to the theory and try to patch
               | it up. When Uranus didn't seem to be moving according to
               | the predictions of Newtonian mechanics (a disproof!),
               | physicists didn't throw out Newton, they posited the
               | existence of another planet. And they turned out to be
               | right, Neptune existed.
               | 
               | See Chalmers' _What is This Thing Called Science?_ for an
               | introduction to these kinds of topics, or Kuhn and
               | Feyerabend 's work for historical responses. (And the
               | Duhem-Quine thesis for the "auxiliary hypothesis"
               | response to falsifiability I hinted at with my example.)
        
             | satellite2 wrote:
             | I think psychology is very successful at categorizing abd
             | treating mental illnesses. The DSM is really a monument and
             | hold for most of its part very well to scrutiny.
             | 
             | Where psychology is massively failing to replicate is in
             | trying to characterise healthy individuals. Typically the
             | work of Kahneman.
             | 
             | But that's what interest people and sells, pop psychology.
        
               | blackbrokkoli wrote:
               | Genuinely curious, how would you scrutinize a
               | categorization tool that includes both causes and effects
               | in its key?
               | 
               | I'm only tangentially following the whole
               | autism/Asperger's/ADD/ADHD development, and I'm growing
               | more and more convinced that all these categories are
               | mostly arbitrary constructs grown out of random history
               | and academia politics. Happy to be proved wrong here,
               | though.
        
           | davetannenbaum wrote:
           | His own work held up very well to replication. It's when he
           | is citing the work of other scholars (in particular, that of
           | social psychologists) that doesn't hold up well to
           | replication.
        
           | canjobear wrote:
           | "When I describe priming studies to audiences, the reaction
           | is often disbelief . . . The idea you should focus on,
           | however, is that disbelief is not an option. The results are
           | not made up, nor are they statistical flukes. You have no
           | choice but to accept that the major conclusions of these
           | studies are true."
        
           | importantbrian wrote:
           | This game is doubly valuable when the surprising result
           | confirms one of your existing beliefs. I'm pretty good about
           | doing this for surprising results that contradict a belief I
           | hold, but I have to be extra disciplined about doing it when
           | it confirms one of my beliefs.
        
           | acchow wrote:
           | > calibrate yourself on the replication crisis
           | 
           | I imagine that in 30 years, it will become clear that
           | individual humans display enormous diversity, their diversity
           | increasing as societal norms relax, and their behavior
           | changing as the culture around them change. As such,
           | replication is hopeless and trying to turn "psychology" into
           | a science was a futile endeavor.
           | 
           | That is not to say that psychology cannot be helpful, just
           | that we cannot infer rational conclusions or predictions from
           | it the same way we can from hard sciences.
           | 
           | Self help books are enormously helpful, but they're
           | definitely not science either.
        
           | richrichie wrote:
           | Experiments involving grad students dont correlate well with
           | how (normal) people behave in real life.
        
         | cvwright wrote:
         | I find that most nonfiction books follow a common structure:
         | 
         | * 1st third of the book: Lays out the basic ideas, gives
         | several examples
         | 
         | * 2nd third of the book: More examples that repeat the themes
         | from the 1st part
         | 
         | * 3rd third of the book: ??? I usually give up at this point
         | 
         | I sometimes wish that more books were like "The Mom Test" -
         | just long enough to say what they need, even if that makes for
         | a short book.
        
           | voisin wrote:
           | Because most nonfiction books are one, relatively small set
           | of ideas (profound or not, novel or not) that could be
           | concisely written as a few blog posts or a single long form
           | article, but in order to monetize and build the author's
           | brand, get exaggerated into a full book. It is really painful
           | and something I hope GPT will help the rest of us cut through
           | in the future ("summarize the points. Dig into that point.
           | What evidence is given? Etc etc etc" as a conversation rather
           | than wasting 30 hours reading noise for a book)
        
             | owisd wrote:
             | You can just leverage the "second brain" crowd -- for every
             | vaguely well-known non-fiction book someone has written up
             | a summary for themselves and posted it on their blog.
        
             | ratg13 wrote:
             | Most people don't absorb concepts immediately with only a
             | simple explanation.
             | 
             | Unless you are reading a topic you are already familiar
             | with, reinforcement of an idea helps you to examine a
             | concept from different angles and to solidify what is being
             | discussed.
             | 
             | If everyone fully absorbed and understood everything they
             | read, schooling could be completed years in advance.
        
               | 1letterunixname wrote:
               | Apart from CYOA, I think a hypertext "book" would be the
               | most effective way to dynamically scale detail
               | preferences without resorting to skimming or skipping.
               | 
               | Some people want more or less evidence based on their
               | level of skepticism or critical thinking, while others
               | want more evidence to reinforce the soundness of their
               | inferred position on a topic, especially if it's a topic
               | unfamiliar to them. Other people are under time
               | constraints and just want the key points and a brief
               | presentation.
        
             | olvy0 wrote:
             | That's exacerbating the original environmental problem, in
             | addition to thick paper books, filled with filler material
             | just to promote the author's brand, you now want to waste
             | electricity on running an LLM that will give you a the
             | short version? That's.... short sighted.
             | 
             | This should be dealt with by pressuring the publishing
             | industry not to inflate books and fill them with fluff.
             | This could be done by not buying these kind of books, and
             | publicly shaming publishers who engage in this behavior.
             | It's easier in non fiction books since the amount of fluff
             | in fiction books is a more subjective matter.
        
               | CuriouslyC wrote:
               | Except that a lot of people read these books for the
               | entertainment value of the anecdotes, and a lot of people
               | enjoy feeling self-important for having read long books.
        
               | flawn wrote:
               | The latter will happen already by more and more people
               | doing ways to summarize books
        
               | mattmaroon wrote:
               | They do it because a short book looks like a pamphelet
               | and nobody will buy it. Most Gladwell books could easily
               | be 30 pages, but nobody will pay $14.99 for that.
               | 
               | You can't shame them into buying books they can't sell.
               | 
               | How much electricity does it take an LLM to summarize a
               | book? I'm sure the carbon emissions involved are trivial,
               | and if they aren't, I've always been of the belief that
               | (like eating meat) people are going to do what they want
               | to do regardless of the environmental cost, so it's
               | better to focus your ire on reducing the environmental
               | cost. The problem here isn't using an LLM to summarize a
               | book, it's that we've got a power grid fueled mainly by
               | fossil fuels. (That is a problem that will fix itself in
               | no time anyway now that renewables are cheaper and the
               | gap is widening.)
        
               | BeFlatXIII wrote:
               | > They do it because a short book looks like a pamphelet
               | and nobody will buy it. Most Gladwell books could easily
               | be 30 pages, but nobody will pay $14.99 for that.
               | 
               | This applies equally to Sci-Fi and fantasy doorstopper
               | novels. At least those have interesting filler--sometimes
               | even better than the main story.
        
             | geodel wrote:
             | Well, life of most people on the earth is just same boring
             | repetitions with few novel events. So I wonder what would
             | people do with their ample amount of saved time thanks to
             | ChatGPT. Perhaps writing another Javascript framework,
             | launch new food delivery apps besides raging on social
             | media.
        
           | paulpauper wrote:
           | _I sometimes wish that more books were like "The Mom Test" -
           | just long enough to say what they need, even if that makes
           | for a short book._
           | 
           | most non fiction could be well-summarized as a lengthy blog
           | post
        
             | arrowsmith wrote:
             | I'd go further: many non-fiction books could be losslessly
             | compressed into a tweet.
             | 
             | (Looking at you, _The Checklist Manifesto_ )
        
               | yboris wrote:
               | Reading a book, say 10 hours, is like a meditation on an
               | idea: you get numerous examples of it and a variety ways
               | of thinking about it.
               | 
               | Our brains learn best when they encounter something often
               | across time (spaced repetition).
               | 
               | Reading a single tweet _may_ summarize the book, but the
               | chances of you recalling the idea in an appropriate
               | situation is much lower than if you had spent hours on
               | it.
        
               | arrowsmith wrote:
               | I agree, and there are many books which are well worth
               | the time it takes to read them. All I'm saying is that
               | there are many other books which aren't.
        
               | 1letterunixname wrote:
               | HAHAHA. :@D Challenge accepted.
               | 
               |  _The right checklist organizes uniformity, success, and
               | safety in almost every human endeavor._ -
               | @SomeGuyOnTheInterwebs
        
           | prionassembly wrote:
           | Counterexample: Gilles Deleuze's "Empiricism and
           | Subjectivity".
        
           | vundercind wrote:
           | Mainly a business and self-help "airport book" problem.
           | Sometimes pop-science.
        
           | 1letterunixname wrote:
           | Perhaps nonfiction works could be ordered neatly such that
           | the thesis and support material isn't buried, but arranged in
           | a tiered detailed manner conducive to a "Choose Your Own
           | Adventure"-like skipping of material. Short-form and long-
           | form must find a way to coexist and be useful without
           | critical compromise. It's not like everyone has or should
           | need Cliff Notes or getAbstract.
        
           | dionidium wrote:
           | I always think of this from Aaron Swartz:
           | 
           | > _But let's say you can narrow it down to one good one, and
           | you can find the time to read it. You plunk down an absurd
           | $30 (of which, I'm told, less than $3 goes to the author) for
           | a bulky hardcover and you quickly discover that the author
           | doesn't have all that much to say. But a book is a big thing,
           | and they had to fill it all up, so the author padded it.
           | There are several common techniques._
           | 
           | > _One is to repeat your point over and over, each time
           | slightly differently. This is surprisingly popular. Writing a
           | book on how code is law, an idea so simple it can fit in the
           | book's title? Just give example after example after example._
           | 
           | > _Another is to just fill the book with unnecessary detail.
           | Arguing that the Bush administration is incompetent? Fill
           | your book up with citation after citation. (Readers must love
           | being hit over the head with evidence for a claim they're
           | already willing to believe.)_
           | 
           | > _I have nothing against completeness, accuracy, or
           | preciseness, but if you really want a broad audience to hear
           | what you have to say, you've got to be short. Put the
           | details, for the ten people who care about them, on your
           | website. Then take the three pages you have left, and put
           | them on your website too._
           | 
           | Source: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/001229
        
           | BeFlatXIII wrote:
           | > 3rd third of the book: ??? I usually give up at this point
           | 
           | History of science books thankfully stave off that final
           | third until at least 80%. However, their final chapter or two
           | universally manages to be a letdown. It's either wild
           | optimistic speculation, hype for a theory that's debunked 5
           | years after publication, or a focus that accidentally
           | happened to predict the course of science post-publication.
           | The story is told in a tonally jarring manner compared to the
           | tight narrative in the rest of the book.
           | 
           | My #1 suspect for this disease is a desire to connect the
           | content of the book to real life. Such attempts miss more
           | often than they drive the point home, even if they're
           | factually correct.
        
           | musiciangames wrote:
           | As a sample of 1, it seems to me that this is particularly an
           | issue with American non-fiction.
        
         | dwighttk wrote:
         | It's the only one of those books I still don't regret telling
         | people "it's good" a decade later (with a couple caveats)
        
         | chx wrote:
         | Let me summarize: the highest scored comment on hacker news to
         | the death of Daniel Kahneman says the second half of his book
         | can be replaced by an automated plagiarism machine.
         | 
         | Y'all are hopeless and deserve what's coming for you. The only
         | problem is, I will also be buried under it and so will everyone
         | else but that can't be helped, it seems.
        
           | someguydave wrote:
           | Old man yells at clouds
        
         | supafastcoder wrote:
         | > it covered some generally profound ideas that still are
         | relevant as ever and not widely understood
         | 
         | I've tried to read this book over and over again to understand
         | what everyone is talking about but never found the insights
         | that useful in practice. Like, what have you been able to apply
         | these insights too? What good is it to know that we have a slow
         | mode of thinking and a fast way? Genuine question.
        
           | cjblomqvist wrote:
           | When to trust your instincts /intuition (eg. when few facts
           | are known, there are no critical central deciding factors,
           | but it's important to take a decision and move forward) and
           | when to stop trusting your instincts and reflect a little (eg
           | someone is trying to rush you into making a buying decision).
           | 
           | When it's likely that your biased, and try to work around
           | that (highly related to above). (Eg. When don't make critical
           | decisions when you're sleep deprived)
           | 
           | How you can utilize other people lacking this ability. (eg
           | utilize it in sales processes)
        
         | brightball wrote:
         | The Undoing Project is a solid read about his life and work
         | too.
        
         | __mharrison__ wrote:
         | I guess I'm one of the rare folks who started reading TFAS and
         | left without any big revelations or takeaways. I got bored half
         | way through and stopped. Shrug...
        
           | pineaux wrote:
           | Had the exact same experience. Maybe someone can enlighten us
           | with why this is -supposedly- such a revelatory book?
        
             | ceuk wrote:
             | Assuming this is a genuine question and not just
             | intellectual posturing the obvious answer if you've ever
             | spoken to.. most people.. is that a lot of the (admittedly
             | somewhat simple) concepts in the book are for whatever
             | reason, not part of the general public psyche
        
         | bartread wrote:
         | I know Daniel Kahneman only through reading him. Like you, I
         | found Thinking Fast & Slow incredibly useful, first reading it
         | perhaps 10 years ago. Definitely 2014, and I can't believe
         | that's 10 years ago.
         | 
         | I must admit this headline shocked me for the simple reason
         | that... I straight up had no idea that he was so old.
         | 
         | Thank you, Daniel, for the way you've influenced my (and our)
         | thinking in ways that are still impacting us today, both in
         | work and in the rest of life. Rest in peace.
        
         | 1letterunixname wrote:
         | More meta is that, when people in aggregate are stressed and
         | not all that wise or informed, they tend to look for
         | convenience and expediency rather than effort and mastery.
         | Unfortunately, this can also happen when people are apathetic
         | or not stressed and slack off on reasonable skepticism or fail
         | to dig into the details.
         | 
         | Leadership, pride, excellence, empathy, and fairness must not
         | fail into the decay of jingoist buzzwords and remain values
         | with intent and actions that remain unwavering.
         | 
         | The greatest danger is dishonesty when words stop having
         | ordinary meanings, when people stop talking to each other, or
         | when they're a lack of agreement on the obvious intersection of
         | a shared reality.
        
         | AlgoRitmo wrote:
         | I have a physical copy and only read about 2 chapters, after
         | having it for years. I need to take it on a flight to finally
         | get around to reading it. It seems like one of those books you
         | have to own and read at least once.
        
       | John23832 wrote:
       | Wow. I was just looking him up yesterday to see if he had written
       | anything else. Sad. Be blessed.
        
       | jarcoal wrote:
       | Damn, I'm reading Thinking Fast and Slow right now. RIP.
        
       | zebomon wrote:
       | Thinking Fast and Slow made a tremendous impact on me when I read
       | it (multiple times) in the 2010s. What curiosity and what clarity
       | of thought this man had. His influence will continue to be felt!
        
         | misiti3780 wrote:
         | Me too, I think a bunch of it was found to be reproducible
         | though.
         | 
         | https://replicationindex.com/2020/12/30/a-meta-scientific-pe...
         | 
         | Same thing is happening w/ a lot of the work of Dan Ariely, but
         | I think his situation is much worse.
        
           | FabHK wrote:
           | I don't recall any suggestion of foul play with
           | Kahneman/Tversky, unlike Ariely.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | Ariely has rained Kahneman's reputation because the average
           | person doesn't distinguish "pop behavioral scientist".
        
       | nonrandomstring wrote:
       | "people [are] endlessly complicated and interesting."
        
       | yodon wrote:
       | Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39840447
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | FYI, that's been redirected to this post:
         | <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39841183>
        
       | micah94 wrote:
       | I remember years ago Penn Jillette talking about his book
       | "Thinking Fast and Slow". And I was like why is a magician
       | talking about a book written by an economist?? Well, read it and
       | you'll understand why it fits so well with their brand of magic.
       | Dr. Kahneman expresses in words what's going on in your brain
       | while watching someone like them perform.
        
         | astrodust wrote:
         | There's a lot of "magic" in that book where your pre-
         | conceptions are completely subverted.
        
         | bumby wrote:
         | FWIW, I believe Kahneman resisted being categorized as an
         | economist and preferred to think of himself as a psychologist.
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | There's a school of thought which holds that economics is a
           | subset of psychology.
           | 
           | I'd thought that this was reflected in some university
           | departmental organisation, with M.I.T. being the one that
           | came to mind. Despite there being a behavioural economics
           | section there, though, so far as I'm aware Economics remains
           | its own department.
           | 
           | Kahneman's training and primary focus were both in
           | psychology, but he _was_ awarded the somewhat problematic
           | Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences. Multi-
           | discipliniarity is in fact A Thing.
           | 
           | Princeton bio:
           | 
           |  _Daniel Kahneman is Professor of Psychology and Public
           | Affairs Emeritus at the Princeton School of Public and
           | International Affairs.... He has been the recipient of many
           | awards, among them the Distinguished Scientific Contribution
           | Award of the American Psychological Association (1982) and
           | the Grawemeyer Prize (2002), both jointly with Amos Tversky,
           | the Warren Medal of the Society of Experimental Psychologists
           | (1995), the Hilgard Award for Career Contributions to General
           | Psychology (1995), the Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences
           | (2002), the Lifetime Contribution Award of the American
           | Psychological Association (2007), and the Presidential Medal
           | of Freedom (2013)._
           | 
           | <https://kahneman.scholar.princeton.edu/>
        
             | foobiekr wrote:
             | Psychology could legitimately be considered a subset of
             | economics.
        
               | alephknoll wrote:
               | If economics is a subset of psychology and psychology is
               | a subset of economics, then economics equals psychology.
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | Is all human behaviour mercantile?
               | 
               | The counterargument to the proposition in my earlier post
               | would be to show that there is economic activity which
               | relies on nonhuman behaviours. Automated financial
               | trading or AI-based management systems (financial,
               | corporate, industrial, governmental, etc.) might be
               | possible exceptions, which raises further interesting
               | questions.
        
               | tomrod wrote:
               | Economics since the mid 1900s hasn't been solely focused
               | on mercantilism, but rather has had a significant focus
               | on choice under various conditions, assumptions, and
               | constraints. Game theory, mechanism design, contract and
               | auction deisgn, and focus on individual versus collective
               | behavior (e.g Arrow's Impossibility Theorem) have strong
               | overlap with psychology.
               | 
               | Though there is certainly daylight: my subfields of
               | Industrial Organization and Computational eocnomics are
               | way more related to quantitative finance, ML, and similar
               | than voting behavior.
        
             | bumby wrote:
             | I may be misremembering here (or perhaps projecting), but I
             | vaguely remember the issue being that economics tried to
             | portray itself as too much of a "hard science" for
             | Khaneman's liking.
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | As someone trained in the study, I'd tend to agree with
               | him.
        
       | fastandslow wrote:
       | Fantastic book - I certainly had to read it slowly, not fast.
       | 
       | Two things bothered me about it though - firstly, it landed
       | shortly before the reproducibility issues of such research became
       | more widely known.
       | 
       | Secondly - towards the end of the book, it espouses the idea that
       | using some methods of psychlogical and behavoural manipulation is
       | at worst a net neutral, especially if there was nothing to see of
       | the manipluation in question. After all, who can argue against
       | organ donation being opt-out by default, or similar?
       | 
       | To me, this is like a magician claiming that there was no sleight
       | of hand, as we were free to look wherever we liked during their
       | performance. Denying the presence and capabailities of tools of
       | manipulation is, in my opinion, incredibly dangerous, and the
       | worst of its outcomes has been very publicly played out in recent
       | years.
        
         | nonrandomstring wrote:
         | What the eye doesn't see the heart doesn't grieve, as they used
         | to say in the pie factory where I worked. But the belly knows.
         | Yes, it's a dangerous, cavalier idea. But from an endlessly
         | complicated and interesting thinker.
        
         | Retric wrote:
         | > some methods of psychlogical and behavoural manipulation
         | 
         | I think you may be objecting to the idea of manipulation here
         | rather than his point. Influence is not necessarily bad, if a
         | dentist notices some poster which causes his patients to floss
         | more shouldn't he keep it up?
         | 
         | Suggesting all manipulation is bad implies we shouldn't do
         | public health education etc if it happens to be effective.
        
           | fastandslow wrote:
           | But it never stops at "this thing we want to encourage is
           | obviously good with absolutely no downsides".
           | 
           | After all, floss is a single-use plastic, generally made of
           | PTFE, the production of which requires all sorts of nasty
           | forever chemicals.
        
       | fastandslow wrote:
       | Fantastic book - I certainly had to read it slowly, not fast.
       | 
       | Two things bothered me about it though - firstly, it landed
       | shortly before the reproducibility issues of such research became
       | more widely known.
       | 
       | Secondly - towards the end of the book, it espouses the idea that
       | using some methods of psychlogical and behavoural manipulation is
       | at worst a net neutral, especially if there was nothing to see of
       | the manipluation in question. After all, who can argue against
       | organ donation being opt-out by default, or similar?
       | 
       | To me, this is like a magician claiming that there was no sleight
       | of hand, as we were free to look wherever we liked during their
       | performance. Denying the presence and capabailities of tools of
       | manipulation is, in my opinion, incredibly dangerous, and the
       | worst of its outcomes has been very publicly played out in recent
       | years.
        
         | roguecoder wrote:
         | I think the argument is whether or not we admit we are having
         | these effects and take responsibility for them, we are doing
         | them.
         | 
         | I personally find that telling people exactly what I intend to
         | do makes it more effective rather than less. But in a field
         | where we can change people's behavior by making a button orange
         | instead of blue or presenting a form in one page vs three, I
         | find it impossible to pretend that one of those is a neutral
         | choice.
         | 
         | Instead, I focus on what it is we are maximizing for, and how
         | people feel about the experience. I push my companies to choose
         | patterns that help people feel secure & in control, leading to
         | predictable outcomes that align with what they actually
         | expressed wanting. It means we are collaborating with our
         | users, even though we could have used those same techniques to
         | make them feel more anxious, spend more money than they
         | intended, or buy things they didn't actually need.
        
       | dinp wrote:
       | The idea of system 1 and system 2 had a profound impact on me.
       | While specific conclusions in the book were reported to be based
       | on low quality data, it doesn't take away from the fact that it
       | gave me a new mental lens to look at things and understand
       | people's behaviour.
        
       | Swizec wrote:
       | If you've only read Thinking Fast And Slow, try grabbing a copy
       | of his 2021 book Noise. It's a little drier but I found it to be
       | a much deeper and more insightful read. Less pop sci, more hard
       | research results.
       | 
       | And if I recall correctly he addresses the replication issues
       | from Thinking Fast And Slow and discusses more recent research
       | that disproves or adds nuance on the older studies. I think it's
       | also more practically useful and applicable to everyday life.
       | Where TFS gives you a "these are interesting facts about life"
       | vibe, Noise is more "here's the problem and this is what you can
       | do about it" style.
        
       | _aleph2c_ wrote:
       | https://archive.md/tZY2w
        
       | suriyaG wrote:
       | kahneman was such a fascinating personality. Other than "Thinking
       | fast and slow", I highly recommend "The Undoing Project" by
       | Michael Lewis about Kahneman and Tversky's incredible journey
       | changing the standard economic theory.
       | 
       | Some interesting talks with Daniel Kahneman
       | 
       | - https://www.edge.org/adversarial-collaboration-daniel-kahnem...
       | 
       | - https://replicationindex.com/2017/02/02/reconstruction-of-a-...
       | Kahneman himself reponds in the comment sections to a very
       | critical piece about his work.
        
         | FabHK wrote:
         | Sad that Tversky, despite being younger, predeceased him by
         | nearly 3 decades.
        
         | abirch wrote:
         | Don't forget "Noise" it was a great read and great bridge
         | between "Thinking Fast and Slow" with "Nudge"
        
         | richrichie wrote:
         | Does behavioral economics offer an alternative theory with
         | useful predictions? Like, do we have an option pricing model
         | that holds up better than models coming out of standard theory?
        
       | COGlory wrote:
       | I'm not an economist nor that interested in them, but I did read
       | Nassim Taleb's books* and Kahneman stuck out as one of very few
       | economists Taleb doesn't totally trash.
       | 
       | * I had read Eugene Koonin's "The Logic of Chance" and was then
       | recommended Taleb's books for a more thorough perspective on
       | probability, to apply to Koonin's work.
        
         | mgfist wrote:
         | Nassim Taleb's opinion of others shouldn't hold much sway - the
         | man is a prick.
        
           | zengid wrote:
           | I thought he was so witty and refreshing when I read
           | AntiFragile (which I will always regard as a masterpiece),
           | but I feel like he's ran out of ideas now and is just
           | complaining about people he doesn't like.
        
           | COGlory wrote:
           | He has an incredible ego, but also seems very self aware.
        
           | inglor_cz wrote:
           | Taleb really has a high opinion only of himself. A very smart
           | man, but also very self-absorbed.
        
             | vik0 wrote:
             | >Taleb really has a high opinion only of himself
             | 
             | That's not true though. I can name at least two other
             | people on whom he has a high opinion (a.k.a he's praised
             | them in his books): Karl Popper and George Soros. There are
             | others as well, but most people here will recognize these
             | people (I assume) so that's why I mentioned them, and
             | admittedly they were the first to pop into my head lol
             | 
             | It's true that he's an asshole on X and in his books, while
             | in real life he seems very nice and non-confrontational.
             | He's talked about this in an interview he did with the
             | Guardian I think a few years ago (maybe a decade ago), and
             | if my memory serves me right, he said something to the tune
             | of it being easier to get lost when you're not speaking
             | directly to someone's face and become more rude than usual
        
         | malshe wrote:
         | I know I am nitpicking but Kahneman was not an economist. He
         | was a cognitive psychologist. In fact he is the only
         | psychologist ever to win a Nobel prize in economics.
        
           | dr_kiszonka wrote:
           | Just to add some context, there is no Noble Prize in
           | psychology.
        
             | worik wrote:
             | And utterly pedantically there is no Nobel prize in
             | Economics. It is "Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic
             | Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel"
             | 
             | Established in 1968
        
       | FergusArgyll wrote:
       | Great interview Tyler Cowen did with him.
       | 
       | https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/daniel-kahneman/
        
       | rasse wrote:
       | He truly had that rare combination of gifts for formulating _and_
       | expressing ideas clearly.
        
       | kqr wrote:
       | Among all the praise for _Thinking, Fast and Slow_ it seems that
       | many people have missed out on _Noise_. Also a fantastic book
       | that shaped how I approach situations perhaps more than the
       | former.
       | 
       | Kahneman was one of those people where I was just waiting to have
       | a problem tough enough that I'd have a good reason to email him
       | with a question, whether or not I'd get a response. I guess no
       | longer.
        
       | mgfist wrote:
       | Feel like I'm the only one who couldn't get through Thinking,
       | Fast and Slow. Felt like a rambling slog, with most of the
       | interesting bits being something that was very common sense to
       | me.
        
         | arrowsmith wrote:
         | I had the same reaction tbh. I managed to get to the end, but
         | it was a slow, tedious slog. And maybe it's because I'd already
         | read a lot of other pop-psych books, but I barely felt like I
         | learned anything new from it.
         | 
         | That aside, I don't doubt that Kahneman was a brilliant mind,
         | and I'm saddened by his passing. RIP.
        
         | xutopia wrote:
         | When did you read the book? It seems to me that the ideas
         | within the book now pervade culture in ways that it didn't when
         | it first came out. If you read it recently it could contribute
         | to your feeling of this being common sense. Also because this
         | idea feels like common sense doesn't mean that it was.
         | Evolution is common sense now but it was a revolutionary way to
         | think of species when On The Origin Of Species came out.
        
           | vik0 wrote:
           | Yup, exactly this
        
         | yodsanklai wrote:
         | I couldn't finish this book. It felt like a never-ending stream
         | of examples to illustrate a few simple ideas.
        
       | passion__desire wrote:
       | I remember one quick reply of Kahneman when Sam and Daniel were
       | discussing about intuitions and how people are wrong many times.
       | 
       | Sam Harris jokes, "I have met these people". Daniel replies, "We
       | have met them and we see them in mirror" [0]
       | 
       | [0] 17:25 @ https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-
       | episodes/150...
        
       | Shrezzing wrote:
       | Kahneman's impact on economics can't be understated. The subject
       | was becoming a fairly absurd and dogmatically prescriptivist
       | practice before Kahneman stirred it up along with a a relatively
       | small number of colleagues.
       | 
       | To a large extent, it's still dogmatic and prescriptivist, but
       | unorthodox opinions (not just limited to behavioral economics)
       | are more accepted & considered following Kahneman's input.
        
         | kolbe wrote:
         | Out of both humility and reality, I think even Kahneman would
         | give the bulk of the credit to Amos Tversky.
        
         | worik wrote:
         | > The subject was becoming a fairly absurd and dogmatically
         | prescriptivist practice
         | 
         | That was when I was studying it!
         | 
         | So much rubbish "economics is a science because it uses maths"
         | is one favourite of mine.
         | 
         | I did over a decade of study on economics and finance and
         | nobody, even once, mentioned Karl Marx, arguably the most
         | influential economist in the last two hundred years.
         | 
         | It was very prone to fetishes. "Price mechanism" was one I
         | recall. Every problem in society had to be shoe horned into a
         | market so the "price mechanism" would get to work.
        
       | dougSF70 wrote:
       | He was nudged off his mortal coil too soon.
        
         | graphe wrote:
         | His life is filled with tragedy, like his father dying in Vichy
         | France and his wife preceding his death. Imagine living forever
         | where everyone you know and love dying before you.
        
       | wolverine876 wrote:
       | The death of reason.
        
       | sonorous_sub wrote:
       | I always felt I got more mileage out of the reflexivity of
       | Popper, by way of Soros.
        
       | mattpavelle wrote:
       | For those who don't know who he is:
       | 
       | Professor Kahneman, who was long associated with Princeton
       | University and lived in Manhattan, employed his training as a
       | psychologist to advance what came to be called behavioral
       | economics. The work, done largely in the 1970s, led to a
       | rethinking of issues as far-flung as medical malpractice,
       | international political negotiations and the evaluation of
       | baseball talent, all of which he analyzed, mostly in
       | collaboration with Amos Tversky, a Stanford cognitive
       | psychologist who did groundbreaking work on human judgment and
       | decision-making.
        
         | ipsum2 wrote:
         | All of this is in the article.
        
         | radu_floricica wrote:
         | "advance" and "groundbreaking work" is far from enough. Those
         | two basically invented a couple of new sciences.
         | 
         | "Judgment under Uncertainty: Heuristics and Biases" is the
         | paper that made them famous, and it's still a damn good read:
         | 
         | https://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~schaller/Psyc590Readings/TverskyK...
        
         | whyenot wrote:
         | I used to play D&D after school with Tal Tversky and Jon
         | Barwise at the Tversky's Eichler home on the Stanford campus.
         | This was in the early 1980s. I had no idea how famous either of
         | my friend's fathers were (or would become). It's sad how young
         | both of their parents were when they died.
        
       | randombetch wrote:
       | He's a legend! His book made me question my every thought for a
       | while D:
        
       | coyotespike wrote:
       | Although many of the results in Fast and Slow didn't hold up,
       | Kahneman was always refreshingly open and honest about that, and
       | keen to identify the limits of knowledge.
       | 
       | Which surely is one of the best things you can say about a
       | scientist.
        
         | mxs6 wrote:
         | I was fortunate enough to take a cognitive psych grad seminar
         | from him in the 90s, co-taught by his wife, Anne Treisman. He
         | always seemed given to thinking a little more deeply in the
         | moment than most people do.
         | 
         | One half-joking comment he made about science in the real world
         | vs some idealized notion of it has always stuck with me. In a
         | discussion about whether the results of some paper conflicted
         | with some model or theory of cognition, he mused that
         | scientific progress in psychology (and other non-hard sciences)
         | was really about embarrassing rivals with competing models. No
         | high-level model was ever stated precisely enough to rule out
         | some particular finding; you could always tweak your theory a
         | little to accommodate it. It's just that at some point, you
         | might be too embarrassed to do so.
        
           | rvbissell wrote:
           | Let's call those tweaks epi(stemological)-cycles.
        
           | trash_cat wrote:
           | I did a Cog Sci bachelor and this is the conclusion I made I
           | finished my studies. A lot of Thinking Fast and Slow are
           | summaries of research done in the field over decades. In
           | particular, biases and intuition as internalized
           | knowledge/expertise. Sure you can complain about replication
           | issues but this is the best model when it comes to minds that
           | I know of.
        
         | resource_waste wrote:
         | >was always refreshingly open and honest about that,
         | 
         | His work got torn to shreds with science, what did you expect
         | him to do?
         | 
         | It really should be embarrassing rather than acceptable. It
         | doesnt matter how honest you are AFTER you are caught.
         | 
         | Between the replication crisis and his name on some bad papers,
         | the guy seriously didn't care about correctness as much as
         | interesting-faux-science.
        
           | Tarq0n wrote:
           | There's lots of scientists that deflect and deny
           | falsifications.
        
           | elbear wrote:
           | Embarrassed because science worked as expected?
        
             | resource_waste wrote:
             | Doesn't science require replication? He wrote books based
             | on un-replicated studies.
             | 
             | Further, the confidence he extolled about his now debunked
             | ideas make him a charlatan. This person was a bad
             | scientist. If we esteem people who don't check their data
             | and influence millions of people with falsities, we are
             | going to create a society with low trust.
             | 
             | Just look at this thread, the man lost respect among the
             | people in the know. There are a few people clinging onto
             | 'well just because its not true, doesnt mean I didn't find
             | it interesting". I'm not sure what we get out of promoting
             | anti-science scientists.
        
               | trash_cat wrote:
               | Can you be specific what ideas of his aren't scientific?
               | It's true that science requires replication but he deals
               | with models but perhaps uses bad studies to support it.
               | It's like saying he should replicate the theory of
               | evolution.
        
       | emeril wrote:
       | from the article: "Then the students were asked which was more
       | likely: that Linda is a bank teller or that Linda is a bank
       | teller and is active in the feminist movement. The vast majority
       | went with bank teller and active feminist, which has to be the
       | less likely choice because the probability of two conditions will
       | always be less than the probability of either one."
       | 
       | Isn't that a bad question to ask, it suggests there are only two
       | possible outcomes, wouldn't a better question include a third
       | option of "not a bank teller and may or may not be a active
       | feminist"?
        
         | istultus wrote:
         | Maybe your (anyone's) system 1 might assume only two possible
         | outcomes, but it's not in the question - it's which is more
         | likely, and one option assuredly is, up to a less-than-or-equal
         | sign.
        
           | emeril wrote:
           | I hope the actual study wasn't as "tricky" as it was
           | referenced in the article re: the Linda example
           | 
           | I'd imagine there's enough stuff Kahneman identified with
           | biases that have held up and don't involve artificial
           | questions like this designed to trick the respondents whose
           | real world applicability seem questionable at best...
           | 
           | further, in the supplied example, I'd argue that the prior
           | probability of Linda being a feminist (based on her being an
           | activist/etc.) is probably higher than her not being a
           | feminist so, in a sense the respondents got it right (i.e.,
           | in that population, I'd argue there are more women who are
           | bank tellers and feminists than just bank tellers)...
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | Yes. You've noticed that most psychological insights and
         | paradoxes are actually linguistic ambiguities. But it's more
         | fun to ignore that.
        
           | richrichie wrote:
           | Wittgenstein says hello!
        
         | Unlisted6446 wrote:
         | This aspect was investigated in the literature and broadly
         | speaking, the biases still pop-up:
         | https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1467-9280.00350
         | 
         | - It was also touched on in the original paper that Tversky and
         | Kahneman put out https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1984-03110-001
        
         | billfor wrote:
         | I read that as assuming that the "bank teller only" answer
         | implied that the person was not a feminist, since most people
         | would assume that being a bank teller does not make you a
         | feminist. In any case, a bad phrasing to give for a survey....
         | These questions would be better off being as unambiguous as
         | possible.
        
       | kabigon wrote:
       | Can we ban paywalled WP articles?
        
       | cynicalpeace wrote:
       | Fascinating quote I found on his wikipedia page:
       | 
       | "It must have been late 1941 or early 1942. Jews were required to
       | wear the Star of David and to obey a 6 p.m. curfew. I had gone to
       | play with a Christian friend and had stayed too late. I turned my
       | brown sweater inside out to walk the few blocks home. As I was
       | walking down an empty street, I saw a German soldier approaching.
       | He was wearing the black uniform that I had been told to fear
       | more than others - the one worn by specially recruited SS
       | soldiers. As I came closer to him, trying to walk fast, I noticed
       | that he was looking at me intently. Then he beckoned me over,
       | picked me up, and hugged me. I was terrified that he would notice
       | the star inside my sweater. He was speaking to me with great
       | emotion, in German. When he put me down, he opened his wallet,
       | showed me a picture of a boy, and gave me some money. I went home
       | more certain than ever that my mother was right: people were
       | endlessly complicated and interesting."
        
       | mugivarra69 wrote:
       | rip
        
       | aj_nikhil wrote:
       | R.I.P a true genius.. hope people discover him now..
        
       | orsenthil wrote:
       | Rest in Peace, Ms. Kahneman. May strength be with your family and
       | loved ones. Your Thinking Fast and Slow was an influential book.
        
       | UIUC_06 wrote:
       | Kahneman was a giant among men. Anyone rattling on about "the
       | replication crisis" probably isn't fit to carry his folders.
        
       | ashton314 wrote:
       | For me the best part about reading _Thinking: Fast and Slow_ is
       | that I 'm more distrustful of my own thought processes. That
       | little bit of questioning of my own conclusions has helped me see
       | gaps in my reasoning.
       | 
       | My dream is to one day have the caliber of insights this man had,
       | along with his ability to express them so clearly and
       | persuasively.
       | 
       | dang, does this deserve a black bar?
        
       | vik0 wrote:
       | May he rest in peace
        
       | resource_waste wrote:
       | I hope his legacy is destroyed by the replication crisis.
       | 
       | I remember reading his words, they were so confident like: "No,
       | this is how the brain actually works."
       | 
       | I think we really need to punish people for being leaders and
       | promotiong misinformation. Daniel is at the end of both the
       | replication crisis and signing off on bad data.
       | 
       | These people should lose their Nobel prize IMO, the standard
       | seems to merely be publishing transitory-scientific-gossip.
        
       | amai wrote:
       | About his book: https://replicationindex.com/2020/12/30/a-meta-
       | scientific-pe...
        
       | deadbabe wrote:
       | 90 years old, the most common age of death these days.
        
       | roughly wrote:
       | I'd second every recommendation in this thread for "Thinking Fast
       | And Slow" - it's one of those books that gives you a concept that
       | has such immediate salience that it feels like it unlocks some
       | part of reality you didn't see before but is totally obvious in
       | retrospect.
       | 
       | One of the few other books that's changed my thinking about my
       | thinking in similar ways is Annie Murphy Paul's "The Extended
       | Mind" - https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-extended-mind-the-power-
       | of-... . It's hard to put anything at the level of Thinking Fast
       | and Slow, but it felt like reading a sequel to that book.
        
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