[HN Gopher] Netherlands is the second-largest exporter of agricu...
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Netherlands is the second-largest exporter of agricultural products
Author : jseliger
Score : 88 points
Date : 2024-03-25 19:23 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| The Netherlands is a good example of intensive agriculture: not
| only have they put heavy capital investments into the land they
| already had, they even invested substantial amounts of capital in
| creating _new_ land.
| Reubend wrote:
| If you'd asked me which country was the 2nd largest exporter of
| agricultural products, I certainly wouldn't have said the
| Netherlands. It's cool to see what they're doing to maximize
| efficiency, and I hope that efficiency can be replicated globally
| as well.
| throw_pm23 wrote:
| That efficiency has huge externalities and I hope it will not
| be replicated globally.
| FranzFerdiNaN wrote:
| It's completely destroying our nature, air, water and soil. So
| no, it should decubitus be replicated.
| VeejayRampay wrote:
| very poor quality though, if you've had dutch tomatoes or
| peppers, you'll know
|
| I'd be interested in the nutritional value of said products as
| well
| Rinzler89 wrote:
| Yep, the tomatoes coming from Spain, Italy, etc have a lot more
| flavor. NL is more like the Shenzhen of agriculture (not saying
| it like it's a bad thing)
| belter wrote:
| There is nothing like driving from the Netherlands to
| Germany, going to the Supermarkt and buying cucumbers branded
| Origin Netherlands at 60% of their price in the
| Netherlands...
|
| https://northerntimes.nl/dutch-shoppers-flock-to-german-
| supe...
| Rinzler89 wrote:
| Germany is the black hole of supermarket prices. Even shit
| made in Austria is cheaper once you cross the border to
| Germany than in the country where it's made. It's insane.
| extraduder_ire wrote:
| The single market at work, and such a small amount of a
| product's cost is from making it. I am always sad about
| not being near an internal EU border for this reason.
| (though, if my time were worthless, I'd probably come out
| ahead buying plane tickets)
| zoover2020 wrote:
| Not disagreeing here, but how I understand it, the year-round
| availability of fresh produce is a quality trade-off.
| snowpid wrote:
| though Tomatos can be bought in cans with lots of better
| taste
| ricardobeat wrote:
| But they look incredible on the shelves!
| DrSiemer wrote:
| A uniform color and consistent geometric shape is all that
| matters. Taste is redundant. Carrots are orange because the
| Dutch bred them that way.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Yeah it's because in Holland they grow them in cotton buds
| sprayed with nutrients. It minimises the chance of plant
| diseases and it's much easier to harvest but it loses taste.
| The Germans call the Dutch tomatoes Wasserbomben. Meaning water
| bombs.
| ragebol wrote:
| Big discussion in the Netherlands now, and going on to some
| extent for decades already, about: does it make sense for such a
| small country to have this much intensive agriculture?
|
| As the article mentions, the nitrogen deposited in the little
| patches of what should pass for nature are killing it.
|
| Nice to be self-sufficient in food, but we're more than that in
| some areas. But say something negative about farmers and you'll
| have protesters in big tractors blocking highways and city
| centers.
|
| The parties currently trying to form a government will only let
| these problems fester and not make hard choices to put an end to
| them one way or another.
| DrSiemer wrote:
| One of the four forming parties IS the farmers... They keep
| holding up these signs that say "no farmers no food", while we
| all know a huge part of it is for export.
|
| Practically nobody is against the small farmers, which is the
| sad image they like to prop up, but there are plenty of them
| that drive around in a Tesla while their fully automated
| factory chomps through the never ending supply of animal
| carcasses.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _One of the four forming parties IS the farmers... They
| keep holding up these signs that say "no farmers no food",
| while we all know a huge part of it is for export._
|
| Well, export or domestic, the "no food" part still stands.
| RetroTechie wrote:
| > Well, export or domestic, the "no food" part still
| stands.
|
| More & more I tend to regard Dutch farmland as a factory:
| one that happens to 'manufacture' agricultural products
| (mostly grass & maize to feed cows), using land as part of
| the machinery.
|
| The "feed own population" is 2nd tier consideration. And as
| an industry, it uses a big % of the surface area in our
| densely populated country, while adding relatively little
| to our economy (~2% or so, iirc).
|
| Now if land were plentiful that wouldn't be a (big)
| problem. But with agriculture taking the space of almost
| non-existant 'nature', all the environmental problems
| resulting from its intensity, animal welfare issues etc,
| this _is_ a problem.
|
| Dutch population is a bit 50/50 on this I'd say. Much
| sympathy for farmers but yes the problems are real. But
| farmers have a strong lobby here so probably not much will
| change. More automation, faster-growing crops, bigger
| farms, lower prices for what's produced, middlemen (like
| supermarket chains) squeeze them like crazy while raking in
| profits for their owners or shareholders.
|
| Not a great time to be a farmer in the NL.
|
| Edit: the high-tech agri & research stuff (as described in
| article), _that_ is good stuff though.
| throwup238 wrote:
| _> The "feed own population" is 2nd tier consideration.
| And as an industry, it uses a big % of the surface area
| in our densely populated country, while adding relatively
| little to our economy (~2% or so, iirc)._
|
| TFA says total agricultural exports in 2021 was $108.4
| billion and according to Google the GDP was just over $1
| trillion, which is closer to a tenth of the economy just
| in exports not 2%. Am I missing something?
| FranzFerdiNaN wrote:
| https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/nieuws/2020/19/landbouw-droeg-
| in-20...
|
| It's only 1.4%. If you are generous you end up with at
| most 7% by adding in a lot of related industry and
| transportation of goods as well.
| throwup238 wrote:
| Then where does the $108 billion of exports come from?
| Even at 7% against 1 trillion gdp the math just doesn't
| make any sense to me if there's that much in export.
|
| Is most of the export capital just going towards
| importing fertilizer so it's not counted towards GDP or
| something?
| riffraff wrote:
| I have no idea of the specific numbers, but a component
| of GDP is indeed _net_ exports.
|
| If you export 100B and import 100B the trade would
| account for 0% of the GDP.
|
| At a glance, NL seem to import quite a lot of
| agricultural stuff, even if it exports more.
|
| https://oec.world/en/profile/country/nld?yearlyTradeFlowS
| ele...
| petre wrote:
| It's also the EU country which uses the most ferts and
| pesticides. I wonder of there are any beekeepers left in
| NL, or bees for that matter. I've seen black bees in a
| reservation in Sicily. Amazing. I'd like to see them
| again in ten years.
| DrSiemer wrote:
| No it does not. You could phase out more than 60% of the
| Dutch farmers, which would reclaim 40% of the land (from
| the 66% they currently use), losing less than 1% of the
| BDP, and the country would STILL have plenty of food.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _and the country would STILL have plenty of food_
|
| I did write: "export or domestic".
|
| The country would still have "plenty of food", but the
| second largest production of food would be affected.
| DrSiemer wrote:
| Affected, yes. That's not the same as "no food". Having
| farmers in the Netherlands is not a binary choice.
| stefan_ wrote:
| Which is not a very big production at all because most
| countries that don't qualify as failed states rightly
| organize their food production independently. The biggest
| buyer tends to be China who doesn't need the food to
| begin with, it's just buying on generational paranoia.
| chipdart wrote:
| > One of the four forming parties IS the farmers... They keep
| holding up these signs that say "no farmers no food", while
| we all know a huge part of it is for export.
|
| Huge swathes of land in the Netherlands are used to grow
| flowers, which are definitely not food and are far from being
| critical for a society to subsist. They may be making
| fortunes selling them but let's not pretend the whole
| agricultural industry is mobilized to prevent famines.
| ragebol wrote:
| I live in North Brabant, and around here, it mostly cows
| and maize/corn.
|
| Somehow, some people think of this as 'nature' (it's indeed
| green, I guess), while the original would be heath lands on
| poor soils. Now, with all the nitrogen deposits, other
| species (nettles, grasses, prickly bramble bushes) that are
| less resilient to that come to flourish and take over the
| little heath lands that are left.
| slily wrote:
| The implication that a "good" farmer should not be able to
| afford a car makes your statement about being pro-small
| farmers seem disingenuous. While I've read similar comments a
| few times recently, the "but" is always ridiculous. If a
| farmer manages to carve out enough free time to drive to the
| city to protest for a few days, surely he or she is a mega-
| rich, evil factory farmer, etc. - same story as the Canadian
| truckers a couple years ago. Not to be provocative, but I
| find it interesting that city-slicker posh leftist
| ecofascists somehow managed to convince themselves that
| working-class people such as farmers and truck drivers are
| part of the "privileged oppressor" category by virtue of
| protesting against policies that hurt them.
| chipdart wrote:
| > But say something negative about farmers and you'll have
| protesters in big tractors blocking highways and city centers.
|
| At this point they should be called what they are: agricultural
| corporations.
| amelius wrote:
| How much taxes are these companies bringing in?
| JohnMakin wrote:
| There is often similar discussion in California, who produces
| much of the country's agriculture, but uses huge amounts of
| natural resources to do so (particularly water).
| ragebol wrote:
| Big discussion in the Netherlands now, and going on to some
| extent for decades already, about: does it make sense for such a
| small country to have this much intensive agriculture?
|
| As the article mentions, the nitrogen deposited in the little
| patches of what should pass for nature are killing it.
|
| Nice to be self-sufficient in food, but we're more than that in
| some areas. But say something negative about farmers and you'll
| have protesters in big tractors blocking highways and city
| centers.
|
| The parties currently trying to form a government will only let
| these problems fester and not make hard choices to put an end to
| them one way or another.
| MaximilianEmel wrote:
| [^duplicate comment] @dang
| NicoJuicy wrote:
| Yeah well.
|
| Those things grow the quickest because they were cultivated to
| absorb the most water.
|
| So there's little taste and advantages with those, compared to
| others.
|
| So yeah, great. But numbers only say part of the story.
| maxglute wrote:
| So they're like broiler chicken? I'm always impressed by US
| chicken breasts until it goes in my mouth.
| viburnum wrote:
| The bummer is how much of it driven by fossil fuels: greenhouses
| heated with gas, air pumped with CO2 to speed up ripening,
| fertilizer made from fossil fuels.
| thijson wrote:
| My cousin works as a farmer's hand in the Netherlands. He had an
| interesting anecdote about liquid manure. They used to spray it
| over the land, but people living nearby started complaining about
| the smell, so they started injected it underground. They found
| that yields improved after that.
|
| They stored the liquid manure in a big bag. I stood on it, it was
| a bit like a water bed.
| anthomtb wrote:
| > They stored the liquid manure in a big bag. I stood on it
|
| I am certain its a sturdy bag but why risk it?
| bcrosby95 wrote:
| That would make an even greater story. "Let me tell you kids
| about the time I had to swim through a literal pool of shit."
| mjhay wrote:
| That actually does happen. Industrial pig and chicken farms
| often have manure lagoons, which are exactly what they
| sound like. Do not do an image search for manure lagoons.
| There's been quite a few instances of people falling in and
| being overcome by fumes. I'm sure there are worse ways to
| go, but not many of them.
| OJFord wrote:
| I think manure here is used (not incorrectly, but
| uncommonly) to mean fertiliser but not perhaps animal
| excrement.
| biorach wrote:
| Oh no, it really does mean animal excrement here
| klyrs wrote:
| My dad had one of those, one of many stories he told with
| the implicit "don't be an idiot like your dad" moral. Every
| parent should have a few!
| saalweachter wrote:
| Eh, once you've been covered in shit enough times, the risk
| of once more is easily outweighed by a novel experience.
| Okkef wrote:
| It's not done for the smell but for less NOx pollution. It's
| the law and the fines are massive.
| aqme28 wrote:
| To the extent that the greenhouses are a significant source of
| light pollution, and every once in a while (faulty coverings, or
| for a holiday) the sky will be bright purple[1,2]
|
| [1]:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/10mc6ah/can_an...
| [2]:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Rotterdam/comments/ylmcgy/bright_pu...
| lispm wrote:
| It's also one of the largest importers/re-exporters.
| jauco wrote:
| Here's a chart that shows how the two compare:
| https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2024/10/dutch-agricultural-exp...
| (cbs is the government bureau for statistics)
| jurschreuder wrote:
| Fun fact:
|
| In open fields in Spain you can harvest around 4 kilograms of
| tomatoes per square metre. A Dutch high-tech greenhouse produces
| 80 kilograms per square metre and with four times less water.
| mongol wrote:
| How much more energy spent though?
| bavent wrote:
| Also how do they taste? My recollection of Dutch tomatoes is
| they they are not very good. Bland, watery.
| temporarara wrote:
| Generally in agriculture (and other domains too) when you
| maximize output the quality suffers. And tomatoes are no
| exception. Growing your own or finding a small hobby grower
| and greatly appreciating their efforts are your best bets
| for having actual tasty stuff. Tomatoes are no longer true
| luxury food but tasty tomatoes are.
| chris_va wrote:
| Well... (if I am calculating correctly)
|
| A tomato plant is roughly ~40lbs/sqft/year (hydroponic... at
| 40W/sqft). That's a bit higher than the 80kg/m^2 estimate,
| but I don't have the wattage requirements for the lower
| yield. But, assuming it is linear, about 20Wh/g-tomato.
|
| And then, from a climate impact standpoint... The marginal
| CO2 emissions factor in the Netherlands is pretty high at
| ~0.6kg/kWh, so ~2kg-CO2 for every (~6oz) tomato. That is
| about 200-300x higher than the CO2 from trucking
| (refrigerated) tomatoes from Spain to Netherlands (~30-40kg-
| CO2/ton-tomato/1000 miles ~= 7g-CO2/tomato).
|
| The local ecological (water+fertilizer+pesticide) impact is
| probably higher in Spain (vs the greenhouse construction and
| land use in the Netherlands), though it is hard to know how
| much to trade that off.
| brailsafe wrote:
| Do the Dutch ones end up tasting less like water or are they
| still just as crap as anything not from a garden? Sort of
| joking sort of not, mass produced tomatoes end up tasting like
| nothing most of the time
| 28304283409234 wrote:
| Our Dutch tomatoes have no taste.
| AlecSchueler wrote:
| To be fair do tomatos in Spanish supermarkets taste much
| better?
| jstsch wrote:
| No. They might even be imported from Holland.
| jstsch wrote:
| Serious answer: it entirely depends on the variety of
| tomatoes being grown. There are some varieties that have been
| selected for taste. Typically, they will also have a very
| efficient supply chain with a super short duration between
| harvest to packaging to supermarket (packaging at the
| greenhouse, straight to distribution, to retail). They are
| typically about three times the price of the cheapest 'bulk'
| tomatoes (and also have a higher margin, in the end).
|
| The main challenge with fruits, and especially tomatoes, is
| ripening versus shelf life. A tomato tastes best when it's as
| ripe as possible. Sweet, fragrant and full of flavor.
| However, at that very special time, it will burst on the vine
| or fall apart in your fruit basket within a day. Which is why
| you'll never find this quality in a supermarket. And why I
| grow tomatoes in my garden every summer :)
| rowanG077 wrote:
| And the dutch ones might as well be bags of water.
| joegibbs wrote:
| According to Statista this is just a statistical anomaly as a
| result of the Netherlands having such large port facilities - the
| agricultural products are imported to the country and then
| exported elsewhere in Europe, which artificially bumps up the
| export statistics without any correlation to the actual
| production amount.
|
| Which makes a lot more sense, because even an efficiently-run
| farming sector surely couldn't be so efficient that it can
| produce almost as much as the US despite being 1/50 the size. If
| you look at actual agricultural production the Netherlands isn't
| at the top of anything - the best they're doing is world #5 in
| cheese production.
| AlecSchueler wrote:
| It makes me curious, is there anywhere we can see the figures
| accounting for point of production?
| flavius29663 wrote:
| According to WorldBank[1], they import $36 billion and export
| $26 billion worth of food
|
| [1]
| https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/WLD/Yea...
|
| Such journalism...
| qazadex wrote:
| Re-exports are only 1/3 of their total exports - it's still
| incredibly impressive to have such high production for such a
| tiny country.
|
| https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2024/10/dutch-agricultural-exp...
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