[HN Gopher] Meta takes $40K, holds our business ransom
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Meta takes $40K, holds our business ransom
Author : rohansingh
Score : 110 points
Date : 2024-03-25 18:46 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (tidbyt.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (tidbyt.com)
| mcv wrote:
| I can't imagine using a credit card for something like this, but
| if you do, isn't this exactly what the chargeback is for? They
| clearly don't recognise your credit card payment, so the
| chargeback can't reasonably get you in trouble either. If the
| notice the chargeback at all, at least they'll figure out that
| you did pay them after all.
|
| I'd use the payment method you used before, because that always
| worked, and then chargeback the old payment that clearly didn't
| work. How are they going to side with Facebook when you've got
| all that documentation that they don't recognise that payment?
| rohansingh wrote:
| I'm definitely considering it but trying to make sure we fully,
| thoroughly exhaust all other channels. Totally agree that it
| wouldn't be "reasonable" to permanently suspend our account for
| a chargeback in this scenario, but it's hard to know what's
| reasonable at this point.
|
| Sucks to say it but having to double-pay this invoice may still
| be a better scenario than having the business fully banned from
| Meta Ads.
| oneshtein wrote:
| Pay again then chargeback previous payment. You have full
| right to chargeback extra money.
| rohansingh wrote:
| It's not possible to pay by credit card again -- just get a
| generic error when trying to open the payment form. So it
| would have to be by wire transfer, for which there are no
| chargeback protections.
| nocoiner wrote:
| Right, but, pay by wire to settle what Meta thinks is
| outstanding, and then initiate the chargeback process. At
| least during the pendency of that process, you'll have
| that wire transfer documentation that seems to be the
| only thing Meta can comprehend, and you can (hopefully,
| fingers crossed, get back up and running).
|
| I get that there's a real risk here that you could wind
| up out another $40k at the end of the day and your
| problem still isn't solved, but if losing access to the
| Meta market is as fundamental a risk to the business as I
| took away from the post, then it seems to me like job one
| is to ensure that the business survives and that the
| (admittedly unpleasant) process of getting trued-up on
| the $40k is exactly the kind of thing that your lawyer is
| for.
| rohansingh wrote:
| You're probably right. We can hopefully get back the
| money, but there's no getting back the lost revenue.
| Missed the wire cutoff for today but guess I know what
| I'll be doing tomorrow.
| nocoiner wrote:
| It seems like a truly crappy situation, and I'm sorry
| you're having to deal with this. Looks like a cool
| product.
| mst wrote:
| If you hold shares, there should be a shareholder relations
| department you can contact which often has the ability to
| skip multiple layers of bullshit.
|
| (source: patio11 has mentioned more than once holding a
| handful of shares in companies he's a customer of to make him
| eligible to use that approach)
| ivraatiems wrote:
| Amex might very well take the OP's side, and they'd be right
| to. Credit card companies typically want to protect their
| customers and are predisposed to help them in matters like
| this. However, they have absolutely no control over what Meta
| does after that. They can't force Meta to keep doing business
| with the OP, even if the reason for terminating business is "I
| want to punish OP for taking 40k from my account that I didn't
| think was there."
|
| Editing to add: One avenue that would probably work fairly well
| would be to get a lawyer to send a mean letter to Meta's
| general counsel. $40k is enough money to make the hourly rate
| worth it, and an attorney will be happy to help further if Meta
| tries to be punitive.
| htrp wrote:
| >Editing to add: One avenue that would probably work fairly
| well would be to get a lawyer to send a mean letter to Meta's
| general counsel. $40k is enough money to make the hourly rate
| worth it, and an attorney will be happy to help further if
| Meta tries to be punitive.
|
| This 100%.
| rohansingh wrote:
| That's a really good point and suggestion. I'll reach out
| to our attorney. (grimacing at the cost as I write this)
| ivraatiems wrote:
| Best of luck to you. Please come back and let us know
| what happens (if you can).
| rohansingh wrote:
| Thanks. I'll update here if/when I can.
| guluarte wrote:
| chargeback = perma ban
| cgomez wrote:
| While a chargeback is effectively the right move, most large
| companies have extremely heavy handed responses to it even if
| it's to correct their error you've made good faith effort to
| resolve.
|
| As I think someone else mentioned, that would be a no brainer
| if you had no expectation of every doing business with them
| again but I wouldn't do that in this case.
| theturtletalks wrote:
| I saw a story on Reddit (posted it here as well) where
| someone did a chargeback for Google Ads and their Gmail got
| permabanned.
|
| Chargebacks are not as powerful as you think. Do enough and
| you won't win anymore regardless of how right you are. Uber,
| Amazon, Google, etc will straight up ban people who do
| chargebacks with no recourse.
| klipklop wrote:
| I know from experience that attempting to chargeback any Meta
| owned business is immediate banning on the platform.
|
| EDIT: I would strongly recommend you don't do a chargeback and
| fix it some other way. It took me almost 200 days for Meta to
| restore my account and I was still out the money. If you need
| that account don't charge back.
| rohansingh wrote:
| Thanks for the heads-up. Exploring other channels now. We
| can't risk having the account shutdown for 200 days (or even
| 30).
| mat_epice wrote:
| Dispute the charge with Amex, like you probably should have done
| at first sign of trouble. You can do this even after paying the
| bill.
| j45 wrote:
| Undertaking a claim that there is no one you can speak to
| Facebook about this will help them quickly find someone to talk
| to you and respond to the credit card company and you.
| devoutsalsa wrote:
| When standard channels aren't working, complain to someone
| who can do something about it.
|
| A couple of times in my life, I've had good luck contacting
| the office of Chairpman of the Board. I had problem with a
| debt collector of American Express, I was a financial
| delinquent in those days, and I contacted American Express
| directly. I asked for the Chairman of the Board's office, and
| talked to his assistant. I explained the situation about how
| I was being lied to by the debt collector, the assistant
| arranged to have the debt recalled to American Express, and I
| worked w/ Amex directly after that.
|
| Another time, also w/ Amex, my friend's consulting invoice
| wasn't being paid my Amex in a timely manner. I recommended
| she contact them using the same approach, and an assistant
| helped her get paid.
|
| More recently, I had a problem getting my tax return
| processed with the Internal Revenue Service. I complained to
| my Congressman, his office put me in touch with a tax
| advocate at the IRS, and everything was cleared up. This is
| the second time I needed to do this.
| paulpauper wrote:
| This is totally unacceptable on the part of Meta. Hope you get it
| resolved.
| rohansingh wrote:
| Thanks Paul, appreciate it. Still trying to reach out to anyone
| and everyone.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| I can't believe how shoddy the CC payment is. And "the ad
| platform is known to be buggy". Are you serious? I'm sure they
| hire only the best
| rohansingh wrote:
| It's truly a bummer. I posted about this in a Meta alumni
| group, and here's a couple different responses that I received:
|
| > Same exact situation. Millions in spend. Jumped over to
| TikTok.
|
| > Nearly every time I interact with the ads products, I hit
| multiple bugs ...
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| How is this even possible? Billions of dollars and they can't
| fix this? Hire me. I'll fix it for 20 million.
| annoyingnoob wrote:
| I would file a lawsuit. Guaranteed that Meta will respond to a
| lawsuit. You've provided Meta with all the evidence they need and
| they refuse to acknowledge it. The courts will help them see
| things your way. Be sure to include your attorney's fees in the
| suit.
| eadler wrote:
| What would be the cause of action?
|
| Which statute authorizes fee shifting for attorneys fees?
| cynicalsecurity wrote:
| I'm surprised a company can behave like this in the first place
| and just ignore a customer they charged for 40K without
| registering it. It's extremely unprofessional.
| cco wrote:
| Unconscionable for a 1.3T company to behave this way towards a
| small business.
| sarlalian wrote:
| If there was meaningful choice in this space, they wouldn't act
| this way. Companies that have to deal with the possibility of
| their customers going to a competitor, generally have better
| customer service and better customer systems.
| sneak wrote:
| Former _internal employee_ can 't even get backchannel help with
| Facebook's insanely customer-hostile purchasing process, has to
| resort to court of public opinion to (maybe) get resolution.
|
| What a great ad for Meta's regard for their customers. This
| company actively makes the world worse and anyone giving them a
| single dollar of revenue is participating in that.
|
| Follow Tesla's example and delete your Instagram and Facebook
| accounts. "We have to use it for our business" is a lie people
| tell themselves.
| stevage wrote:
| Tesla is the extremely rare example of a business that is
| interesting enough that people write about them for free. They
| don't need to advertise.
| stevage wrote:
| Honestly I think the best way to get this resolved is making a
| lot of noise. Eventually someone at FB in the right place notices
| and fixes it. So you're doing the right thing.
|
| Oh and a letter from a lawyer.
| ipaddr wrote:
| You've paid facebook millions in the last few years. Another 37k
| is only a small % of that. Pay them another 37k and take it as a
| lesson learned not to use a credit card with them. Write off as
| loss.
|
| Or sue / chargeback and end your relationship with the platform.
|
| Either way it has become a marketing opportunity that is probably
| worth the 37k.
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