[HN Gopher] Exosuit muscle control steps closer to reality
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       Exosuit muscle control steps closer to reality
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 77 points
       Date   : 2024-03-25 10:58 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
        
       | andrewflnr wrote:
       | Wait, why does the suit need to stimulate the user's muscles at
       | all? If anything I would have thought that it should go the other
       | way around, the user would move their muscles voluntarily and the
       | suit would reinforce that motion.
        
         | throwaway11460 wrote:
         | Ideally people have control of their limbs. This is for those
         | who don't - it takes their brain signal and sends it to the
         | limb.
        
       | ordu wrote:
       | I wonder why an artificial stimulation leads to fatique?
       | 
       | Is it due to a lack of a feedback from a muscle? Biology devised
       | quite an ingenious muscles consisting of several bundles of
       | fibers, and nervous system distribute work between somehow. But
       | to do something like that one needs a feedback including pain
       | signalling when a concentration of lactic acid is too high, so
       | nervous system could react by relaxing the muscle (or maybe an
       | individual bundle? I'm not sure) to enable blood to flow and to
       | bring concentrations to optimal levels.
       | 
       | Or there is another reason? Maybe muscles are not completely
       | functional?
        
         | zardo wrote:
         | > Or there is another reason? Maybe muscles are not completely
         | functional?
         | 
         | People using the device probably haven't been able to use the
         | muscle in question for months or years.
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | If that's the reason, wouldn't that just be _normal
           | rehabilitation pain_ , and not something to blame on external
           | muscle stimulation in particular?
           | 
           | It sounds like they're talking about some kind of
           | inconvenience that is experienced even by non-disabled users,
           | involving how the system does position-holding.
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | Yeah, my guess is that it's relying on major muscle groups in
         | ways that aren't ideal, because the regular way the human body
         | would hold/balance involves additional muscles that are too
         | small/numerous to target or just plain hard to artificially
         | orchestrate.
         | 
         | I mean, try "standing still" in front of a counter or raised
         | desk for a few minutes and notice all the subtle load-shifting
         | your body does, even if you steady your balance with your
         | hands. If we can't replicate that, then we need something like
         | this workaround of soft-clamping joints in place before
         | relaxing the major muscles.
        
         | sbohacek wrote:
         | I don't know the source of fatigue reported in the article. But
         | I worked in this area a long time ago and observed rapid
         | degradation in rats. Perhaps it was from the techniques we
         | used, but I speculated that the electrodes only excited a
         | fraction of the muscle, while natural excitation is more widely
         | distributed and perhaps more coordinated (e.g., uniform or
         | optimally not uniform).
        
       | imzadi wrote:
       | I wonder if the electrostatic clutch mechanism could be used to
       | simulate force or resistance in VR.
        
       | matt3210 wrote:
       | I would like a third arm please. A third arm product would help
       | disabled people alot but please make it in a way that two armed
       | people can use it as a third... or fourth arm.
        
         | MisterBastahrd wrote:
         | I'm just thinking of office workers with carpal tunnel just
         | slapping a third arm onto their shoulder and using that to do
         | work while their bodies heal.
         | 
         | "Anybody using the spare arm today, guys?"
        
         | hooverd wrote:
         | Where does the third arm go? In the middle of your chest like a
         | Vortigaunt? I feel like two extra arms would be the way to go.
         | I could hold my notepad and my coffee at all times.
        
         | science4sail wrote:
         | Why just a third arm? Extra productive workers could mount an
         | extra arm above and below each shoulder for a total of six
         | arms. And a prehensile tail for good measure!
        
       | sam_goody wrote:
       | We can have super-human soldiers just in time to ward off the
       | sentient robots!!
       | 
       | I think I'll ask Claude to write a book based on that premise.
        
         | lukan wrote:
         | Since the exosuit will be controlled by a CPU, I rather would
         | bet on genetically enhanced super soldiers.
         | 
         | (but I do not believe in doomsday AI at all)
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | It's interesting that so many people look at the AI alignment
           | problem and immediately assume every AI will be aligned with
           | each other.
        
       | meristohm wrote:
       | My daughter could benefit from this technology. I have mixed
       | feelings about it, as current regulation in the USA seems to not
       | make much difference between resource-use for entertainment and
       | that for medical reasons, leading to significant contributions to
       | climate change in the name of having fun.
        
       | Zenzero wrote:
       | The foldable subdural ecog step feels like a "then draw the whole
       | owl" situation. Foreign body reactions are a major problem that I
       | don't see a satisfying solution for yet. Is the gradual signal
       | degradation from the tissue reaction solved? Are we going to need
       | to be tinkering around everyone's calvariums every 5 years to
       | replace these? In my brief search online I'm finding these low
       | powered studies on the safety of these devices. I'd like to see
       | what the rates of meningitis or neoplasia look like once the
       | implanted population climbs into the thousands. I strongly
       | suspect that invasive measurement of brain activity will
       | eventually be regarded as a foolish endeavor.
        
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       (page generated 2024-03-25 23:01 UTC)