[HN Gopher] Exosuit muscle control steps closer to reality
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Exosuit muscle control steps closer to reality
Author : rbanffy
Score : 77 points
Date : 2024-03-25 10:58 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
| andrewflnr wrote:
| Wait, why does the suit need to stimulate the user's muscles at
| all? If anything I would have thought that it should go the other
| way around, the user would move their muscles voluntarily and the
| suit would reinforce that motion.
| throwaway11460 wrote:
| Ideally people have control of their limbs. This is for those
| who don't - it takes their brain signal and sends it to the
| limb.
| ordu wrote:
| I wonder why an artificial stimulation leads to fatique?
|
| Is it due to a lack of a feedback from a muscle? Biology devised
| quite an ingenious muscles consisting of several bundles of
| fibers, and nervous system distribute work between somehow. But
| to do something like that one needs a feedback including pain
| signalling when a concentration of lactic acid is too high, so
| nervous system could react by relaxing the muscle (or maybe an
| individual bundle? I'm not sure) to enable blood to flow and to
| bring concentrations to optimal levels.
|
| Or there is another reason? Maybe muscles are not completely
| functional?
| zardo wrote:
| > Or there is another reason? Maybe muscles are not completely
| functional?
|
| People using the device probably haven't been able to use the
| muscle in question for months or years.
| Terr_ wrote:
| If that's the reason, wouldn't that just be _normal
| rehabilitation pain_ , and not something to blame on external
| muscle stimulation in particular?
|
| It sounds like they're talking about some kind of
| inconvenience that is experienced even by non-disabled users,
| involving how the system does position-holding.
| Terr_ wrote:
| Yeah, my guess is that it's relying on major muscle groups in
| ways that aren't ideal, because the regular way the human body
| would hold/balance involves additional muscles that are too
| small/numerous to target or just plain hard to artificially
| orchestrate.
|
| I mean, try "standing still" in front of a counter or raised
| desk for a few minutes and notice all the subtle load-shifting
| your body does, even if you steady your balance with your
| hands. If we can't replicate that, then we need something like
| this workaround of soft-clamping joints in place before
| relaxing the major muscles.
| sbohacek wrote:
| I don't know the source of fatigue reported in the article. But
| I worked in this area a long time ago and observed rapid
| degradation in rats. Perhaps it was from the techniques we
| used, but I speculated that the electrodes only excited a
| fraction of the muscle, while natural excitation is more widely
| distributed and perhaps more coordinated (e.g., uniform or
| optimally not uniform).
| imzadi wrote:
| I wonder if the electrostatic clutch mechanism could be used to
| simulate force or resistance in VR.
| matt3210 wrote:
| I would like a third arm please. A third arm product would help
| disabled people alot but please make it in a way that two armed
| people can use it as a third... or fourth arm.
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| I'm just thinking of office workers with carpal tunnel just
| slapping a third arm onto their shoulder and using that to do
| work while their bodies heal.
|
| "Anybody using the spare arm today, guys?"
| hooverd wrote:
| Where does the third arm go? In the middle of your chest like a
| Vortigaunt? I feel like two extra arms would be the way to go.
| I could hold my notepad and my coffee at all times.
| science4sail wrote:
| Why just a third arm? Extra productive workers could mount an
| extra arm above and below each shoulder for a total of six
| arms. And a prehensile tail for good measure!
| sam_goody wrote:
| We can have super-human soldiers just in time to ward off the
| sentient robots!!
|
| I think I'll ask Claude to write a book based on that premise.
| lukan wrote:
| Since the exosuit will be controlled by a CPU, I rather would
| bet on genetically enhanced super soldiers.
|
| (but I do not believe in doomsday AI at all)
| marcosdumay wrote:
| It's interesting that so many people look at the AI alignment
| problem and immediately assume every AI will be aligned with
| each other.
| meristohm wrote:
| My daughter could benefit from this technology. I have mixed
| feelings about it, as current regulation in the USA seems to not
| make much difference between resource-use for entertainment and
| that for medical reasons, leading to significant contributions to
| climate change in the name of having fun.
| Zenzero wrote:
| The foldable subdural ecog step feels like a "then draw the whole
| owl" situation. Foreign body reactions are a major problem that I
| don't see a satisfying solution for yet. Is the gradual signal
| degradation from the tissue reaction solved? Are we going to need
| to be tinkering around everyone's calvariums every 5 years to
| replace these? In my brief search online I'm finding these low
| powered studies on the safety of these devices. I'd like to see
| what the rates of meningitis or neoplasia look like once the
| implanted population climbs into the thousands. I strongly
| suspect that invasive measurement of brain activity will
| eventually be regarded as a foolish endeavor.
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