[HN Gopher] Longest sustained rise in people too sick to work si...
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       Longest sustained rise in people too sick to work since 1990s, says
       thinktank
        
       Author : webmaven
       Score  : 32 points
       Date   : 2024-03-23 13:54 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | SirMaster wrote:
       | In my opinion, not enough people are exercising or eating
       | healthy.
       | 
       | How do you get more people do both?
        
         | throwaway5959 wrote:
         | In the US, stop requiring them to work for health insurance so
         | they can take a few months off between jobs to recharge.
        
           | chomp wrote:
           | I'm pretty sure that would only help the mid-upper classes
           | that can afford the nest egg to take a sabbatical like that.
           | 
           | Exercise and eating healthy (read: cooking) in our modern
           | society requires leisure time, which has mostly been
           | eradicated for the lower classes.
        
             | loa_in_ wrote:
             | Which, coincidentally, is part of the problem
        
           | klyrs wrote:
           | I'd be pretty happy if restaurant employees were incentivized
           | to stay home while infectuous, rather than risk getting
           | fired.
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | I'm all for decoupling health insurance coverage from
           | employment, but there is no evidence that taking extended
           | time off work results in better health outcomes.
        
             | throwaway5959 wrote:
             | It would help if people could use it to change their diet
             | and exercise habits. A lot of people stress eat.
        
         | morkalork wrote:
         | You're not going to get much traction with advertising the
         | benefits and education oriented campaigns. Most of the time, if
         | someone doesn't already have a habit of exercising, you're
         | probably not going to be successful at getting them to start.
         | They're busy with the rest of their lives.
         | 
         | What you've gotta do is trick them into it. Just sneak a little
         | exercise into their daily routines without them noticing. You
         | do that by making them live in walkable cities.
        
         | LorenPechtel wrote:
         | That is rarely going to cause disability.
        
       | aerostable_slug wrote:
       | It would be interesting to see how they attempt to correct for
       | malingering (or if they do at all).
        
         | faeriechangling wrote:
         | I have a different take. This article is talking about the rise
         | of those on disability benefits. Parents are incentivised to
         | portray their children as disabled for benefits, and schools
         | are incentivised to do the same for extra funding and lower
         | standards being applied to them. I think most people apply for
         | benefits likely believe they're genuinely sick and disabled,
         | since being on benefits is not a pleasant life by design.
         | 
         | Oh yeah, and with rising obesity and paternal/maternal age
         | generally getting later and later I would be unsurprised if
         | there was an increasing rate of actual disability.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factitious_disorder_imposed_on...
        
           | LorenPechtel wrote:
           | But the parents/schools get the benefit from things which
           | simply impair, especially things without a definitive test
           | for their existence. A bunch of brain function issues come to
           | mind. I'm sure such things are overdiagnosed, both amongst
           | the poor (for the benefits) and the rich (for the aid in
           | getting into elite colleges.) However, such overdiagnosis
           | will not keep them out of the labor pool.
        
             | faeriechangling wrote:
             | A person and the people around them being told over and
             | over about how they struggle more than most people and
             | being held to lower standards creates a self-fulfilling
             | prophecy, especially if this occurs in childhood during the
             | key developmental period. The stigma can also have real
             | consequences on employment even if the diagnosis is
             | fictitious.
        
         | livingdisabled wrote:
         | It it "malingering" when someone disabled to the degree that
         | they cannot sustain themselves live longer than expected?
         | 
         | The article is light on details - and misses a link to the
         | primary source discussed - but emphasizes the degree to which
         | the UK diverges from other countries studied in terms of labor-
         | market participation post-COVID.
         | 
         | Missing is any discussion of how the UK's life (and quality-of-
         | life) expectations and rates of disease and disability differ
         | from other countries. The UK has notably high rates of obesity,
         | poor diet, and low rates of physical activity compared to other
         | (non-US) G7 nations. It's also got a National Health System
         | that delivers above-average access to care and pretty good
         | outcomes (but which is struggling with labor and demographic
         | pressures.)
         | 
         | Forget malingering, I want to know if the problem here is just
         | that people in the UK are less healthy than in other countries
         | studied, and to what degree this may be offset with better
         | access to care that inflates the share of the population out of
         | the labor market. That might be a prelude to a more honest
         | conversation about society's priorities than a "malingering"
         | framing that blames the disabled.
        
         | LorenPechtel wrote:
         | It feels to me that what they're saying is that there is a pool
         | of people who are unable to work (the percentage of people
         | being disabled by Covid is a decent percentage of the total
         | prior disability rate) but are currently on unemployment
         | benefits rather than disability benefits because the latter
         | requires a lot of jumping through hoops.
         | 
         | Cracking down on "malingering" will drive these people to jump
         | through the hoops for disability rather than actually pushing
         | them into the workforce.
         | 
         | We see a related issue in the US--conservative obsession with
         | pushing them into the labor force. Hint: most of those people
         | are either taking care of someone else (and pushing them into
         | the labor force will dump that other person into the state
         | system, costing the state more), or are those who are
         | marginally functional physically but fully there mentally--
         | whose time is much better spent in school learning some sort of
         | knowledge skill rather than minimally productive physical
         | labor.
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | there was a public talk by a (well-paid, sixty'ish)
         | Longshoreman in California today, where the Longshoreman was
         | injured by an electrical shock. The assigned Doctor said "I
         | have made a thorough study of your xrays and I see no problems"
         | .. yet that man had fused-vertebrae from a motorcycle accident
         | previous to employment. The Doctor made no mention of the fused
         | vertebrae until the Longshoreman brought it up. The direct
         | implication is that the Doctor was told that it was a soft-
         | tissue injury privately, and proceeded to begin the path to
         | deny benefits.
         | 
         | A problem in these situations is that all sides cheat, in
         | reality. And once the finger pointing starts, the communication
         | is damaged, and real problems are put into buckets along with
         | "malingering"
        
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       (page generated 2024-03-23 23:02 UTC)