[HN Gopher] A Stabilizing Robotic Tail for Floating Astronauts
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A Stabilizing Robotic Tail for Floating Astronauts
Author : sizzle
Score : 82 points
Date : 2024-03-19 21:27 UTC (4 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.core77.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.core77.com)
| dreen wrote:
| A cool device. Seems like its completely autonomous. Seeing as we
| used to have tails in our evolutionary past, I wonder if this
| could be fitted like a myoelectric prosthesis around the coccyx
| or something and function like a biological tail.
| Zenzero wrote:
| Attempting to replicate a tail seems tangential to the purpose
| of the device. The human coccyx is a poor location to anchor
| anything given how the vertebrae are not equipped to handle
| force, and there is effectively zero musculature to support it.
| The harness on the back appears much more practical.
| barfbagginus wrote:
| Let's assume that for some reason attaching
| sensors/stimulatirs to the coccyx area lets us control tail
| like robots. Then the sensors could be attached in that area,
| and the actual tail could be mounted anywhere else, perhaps
| even remote to the astronaut's body.
|
| I'm not sure that I buy that first assumption though.
| Measuring signals might be possible, and it might be possible
| to learn how to move the tail based on signals produced
| during conscious attempt to move the tail. But I don't see
| how it would be possible to send signals back to the brain.
| Zenzero wrote:
| That's an assumption that isn't rooted in anatomy. You need
| nerves to measure signals on. Look up the comparative
| anatomy of the human cauda equina vs that of a dog. Where
| you're thinking of plugging into the body, in a human you'd
| be left with the filum terminale, which is going to sorely
| disappoint if you are looking for nerve signals.
|
| To get any meaningful spinal communication in this
| hypothetical scenario, you'd be looking higher up in the
| sacral region. Unless this hypothetical also includes some
| magic star trek technology, you'd be invasively implanting
| electrodes there, which sounds like a fantastic way to
| trigger fecal incontinence and chronic pain.
|
| I get the fun idea of returning humans to our primate
| origins, but modern human anatomy has left us effectively
| nothing to work with. It's an anatomical dead end.
| dreen wrote:
| Right, thanks for the proper information. I guess you
| need to go pretty far into our past to get to a tailed
| ancestor, quick google says its 25-30myam, pre-hominid
| monkeys. Back scratcher manufacturers aren't going out of
| business anytime soon.
| alanbernstein wrote:
| Then it could be prehensile, with space tool attachments...
| uoaei wrote:
| The string control is ingenious! Way more appropriate than a
| bunch of stepper motors.
| amelius wrote:
| I remember seeing inflatable designs too.
| barelyauser wrote:
| Perhaps your assumption that stepper motors are the first
| solution to any motion problem speaks more about your lack of
| resourcefulness than the ingenuity of another solution.
| uoaei wrote:
| It was a comment on the overengineering that is rampant in
| tech nowadays. What's with your attitude?
| aaron695 wrote:
| I assumed it'd be about automated angular momentum rather than
| gripping things.
|
| Like how animals in real life use tails.
|
| Just rather than on earth it's balance, it'd be consistent
| direction.
| usrusr wrote:
| I had the same expectations. Would be a super difficult control
| problem I think, with stuff like the end of the tails motion
| range, collisions, lack of ability to predict the motions of
| actual limbs and so on. Perhaps a 2D model could be a useful
| approach to this problem, with super low friction swivel chairs
| too high for the feet to interact with the ground?
|
| Might even be an interesting playground for Neuralink. Robotic
| tails with a diffuse control from the brain, now _that_ would
| put the "furries" comments elsewhere in the thread on the next
| level!
| ano-ther wrote:
| Cool. The demos see. To be mostly about grabbing.
|
| Would be great if it also helps to maintain flight direction,
| like a squirrel tail.
|
| But probably difficult to test in weightless conditions on a
| student project budget.
| brrrrrm wrote:
| The wings are doing a lot more work than the tail in that
| situation. For quick rotations in 3D, gyroscopic forces would
| probably be better to utilize than a tail
| throwup238 wrote:
| Dr. Otto Gunther Octavius, I presume?
| dymk wrote:
| Furries been making tail cores like this for years
| wiredfool wrote:
| Furries! In! Space!
| freddydumont wrote:
| I wonder if this is inspired by the Ousters from Dan Simmons'
| Hyperion, who're described as using a prosthetic tail to move
| around in zero-g environments.
| Simon_ORourke wrote:
| > there is going to be a whole generation of humans living their
| lives in zero-gravity
|
| No there isn't, although you might have some cosmonauts doing a
| few years of it, it's now a long term liveable condition.
| Terr_ wrote:
| Yeah, right now we can't even get a couple years without
| serious health effects in adults.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| Ugh, another site that fucks with scrolling.
|
| I don't know what's going on with that site but it partially
| loads and a few seconds later I get a warning that JS is slowing
| Firefox down. Clicking stop does nothing, hitting the back arrow
| does nothing, etc. I had to close the tab completely.
|
| Here's an alternative link: https://www.hackster.io/news/mit-s-
| robotic-tail-could-aid-cr...
|
| ...and the MIT media lab page about it:
| https://www.media.mit.edu/articles/mit-s-robotic-tail-could-...
|
| It's a really cool idea that I don't think I've seen in the scifi
| I've watched/read. But given this is a Media Lab project I expect
| the claims and capabilities to be wildly overstated and the
| project to go nowhere.
| nsodhk wrote:
| It's not the Media Lab project. It is a project by an RCA
| student in London https://2022.rca.ac.uk/students/cheng-chang/
| xg15 wrote:
| Very cool! Though I'm not convinced this isn't just some covert
| furry sneaking his gear into the mainstream.
| scotty79 wrote:
| I love when engineering outpaces SF.
| thorum wrote:
| My first thought on seeing this was, I can't believe the
| Belters never thought of this in The Expanse.
| throw1234651234 wrote:
| All I hear is "tails are useful in space". Monkeys have tails.
| Monkeys descended from space. What if it was aliens?!
| bloopernova wrote:
| For moving in zero-G, I wonder if a Batman-style grapple-gun
| might be useful. Make the grapple slow and maneuverable so that
| once you fire it, it will always grab on to a loop or bulkhead or
| whatever.
|
| But for floating in place, that tail feels like the right
| solution. Although if you did have a magical automatic grapple
| gun, maybe using 3 of them at once would also keep you in place
| very well. (although the cables might get annoying!)
| serf wrote:
| in the anime Mobile Suit Gundam it's an established concept that
| the suits used 'AMBAC' to coordinate in space[0], which is really
| just a computer coordinated method of flailing the limbs on the
| robot to get inertia and mass to do its' thing to move the robot
| without thrusters, similar to a mass wheel but without the needed
| additional weight of a flywheel.
|
| I always sort of wished that they had animated the little
| micromovements into the suits to show this feature more readily
| ,but production costs and weird looking movement generally
| prevented AMBAC from ever being demonstrated visually.
|
| This concept reminds me a lot of that.
|
| [0]: https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Active_Mass_Balance_Auto-
| Cont...
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Reminds me of Ardent, from Alice Grove:
| https://www.questionablecontent.net/alice1.html
| Vecr wrote:
| A lot more impressive than I expected, with a combination of
| Kevlar/Carbon black filled UHMWPE/PEEK and radiation shielding it
| might actually be able to do the work asked of it.
| wigster wrote:
| one day we'll all be space monkeys!
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