[HN Gopher] On limitations that hide in your blindspot
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       On limitations that hide in your blindspot
        
       Author : jger15
       Score  : 186 points
       Date   : 2024-03-18 22:29 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.henrikkarlsson.xyz)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.henrikkarlsson.xyz)
        
       | koliber wrote:
       | This is one of the most powerful things you can learn to do.
       | Question your own assumptions, with the goal of seeing what is
       | holding you back. It literally unblocks you and allows you to do
       | things you never considered doing before.
       | 
       | Recently I had an insight about this with my kids and wrote an
       | article about it: https://koliber.com/articles/breakthrough-
       | thinking
        
       | 082349872349872 wrote:
       | > _Point of view is worth 80 IQ points_ --ACK
       | 
       | I currently like the
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_space antimatroid model;
       | think of it as a graph, or like tech/skill-trees in video games.
       | Sometimes you can unlock a new skill simply by combining (taking
       | the meet of) two skills you already have mastered (X [?] Y = Z);
       | other times the only way to get to a (join irreducible?) new
       | skill is to make some sort of 'leap' from a single existing
       | skill; these are much more difficult because (Y [?] Y = Y) so you
       | need inspiration to get from Y to Z.
        
       | benreesman wrote:
       | I really enjoyed this essay (and have made a note in _my_ little
       | Moleskin I carry everywhere to pay more attention to Escaping
       | Flatland).
       | 
       | It's full of observations and insights I'll be chewing on for
       | days at least but what strikes me immediately is the exhilaration
       | of the love story: certainly I've known for a long time that I
       | wanted something like that even if I wouldn't have used those
       | words. And I applied a crude heuristic: I only got seriously
       | involved with partners who were in some important sense _smarter_
       | than I am, but I think this essay has given me words for
       | something I intuited long ago but never quite got by the scruff,
       | which is that only once or twice if that did that represent a
       | person who _made me better at becoming better_ , and it was long
       | enough ago I didn't realize the gravity of that in time to make
       | the necessary choices.
       | 
       | The exhilaration derives from remembering what a game changer
       | that represents when you encounter it, and for me at least how
       | all the brighter colors and incandescent bliss and endless
       | possibility and so many other unpronounceable intangibles that
       | falling truly in love represented.
       | 
       | There's something magical here and the authors have succeeded in
       | setting at least one pen to paper (and physical paper at that)
       | trying to pull on a thread long neglected.
        
         | w10-1 wrote:
         | > a person who _made me better at becoming better_
         | 
         | True that.
         | 
         | The article has its own blindspot, which is to understand the
         | problem as a blindspot - as a lack of information due to some
         | (remediable) deficiency.
         | 
         | But the story showed it was instead a matter of will, or
         | agency. His girlfriend obviously knew she could learn; she just
         | needed to decide that it was her job to learn instead of
         | depending on others to teach.
         | 
         | Indeed, nearly every story on point (like the comment about
         | Bridgewater practices) purports to be about information
         | (delivering unwanted news), but is in fact about the will to
         | change.
         | 
         | This is important because there's a ton of advice out there,
         | and people who feel that giving advice is how they can help.
         | But often that makes things worse: the person already feels
         | disabled, and advice not taken basically conveys that they're
         | faulty - disabled.
         | 
         | Greek philosophers argued about the phenomenon of akrasia
         | (weakness of will), generally falling into the same trap that
         | we do, thinking knowledge will somehow solve it. But there's
         | actually plenty of evidence that more knowledge constrains your
         | sense of possibility.
         | 
         | Mechanistic psychologists might argue for impedance-matching:
         | challenging people without breaking them, so they achieve a
         | rate of change above their expectations - but then expectations
         | change. (Successful and powerful people are notoriously unhappy
         | that their trajectories are not increasing.) Conversely,
         | buddhists say to expect nothing and accept everything; then
         | people become happy but low-achieving.
         | 
         | Sometimes what really helps is to show someone that they can
         | change. As the story suggests, love itself, and bringing
         | someone out of a small town, helps. As the Bridgewater comment
         | and the 2010's workplace suggests, joining some group where
         | peers are humble and activated can be inspiring. Therapy
         | suggests realizing that all your fears are self-generated
         | delusions that disappear when you stop pumping energy into
         | them. (Nietzsche's spirit of gravity is a monkey on the
         | shoulder, that eventually hops off.)
         | 
         | So perhaps the best of all is the advice above, to notice
         | whether you're more yourself when with certain people. Those
         | people Aristotle would call your friends; in the Nichomachean
         | ethics friendship is the highest form of happiness because
         | we're most actualized among those who get/demand/expect/elicit
         | the most from us.
        
       | parasti wrote:
       | This is very well written. Aside from the topic at hand, I had a
       | realization that an essay written in this manner (from the
       | context I assume with input from at least two people) feels as if
       | written by superhuman, combining the individual insights of each
       | into a greater, more insightful whole. It's obvious, I suppose,
       | but this idea had never crystallized for me before reading this.
        
       | xyzelement wrote:
       | One of the main things that attracted me to working at
       | Bridgewater is the company culture geared explicitly at helping
       | you discover your blind spots.
       | 
       | A lot of the discomfort that people associate with the company
       | has to do with that: the recorded meetings, the "brutal" feedback
       | etc are all designed to make you see what you have been resisting
       | seeing.
       | 
       | There is a part of us that wants to grow and there's a part of us
       | that resists the pain of growth. Being someone who values growth
       | and is willing to go through the discomfort doesn't make the
       | process itself easier for you - you still have to do the work.
       | It's challenging but in retrospect you look at the kind of person
       | you are a year or five years down the line and you feel good
       | about it.
        
         | bumby wrote:
         | I do think there's a downside to this culture, or at least
         | something to guard against. It works when there is a clear
         | intention to improve, but there can also be a tendency towards
         | negativity and downright cynicism. Sometimes, "brutal" feedback
         | becomes a mechanism of maintaining the status quo rather than
         | fostering growth. It reminds me of the Oscal Wilde quote to the
         | effect of "a cynic is someone who knows the cost of everything
         | and the value of nothing." It creates a lack of psychological
         | safety, where people are afraid to speak up with different
         | ideas and the culture stagnates.
        
           | willcipriano wrote:
           | I have a hard time imagining that it's truly brutal in both
           | directions. Is the executive team really made to justify a
           | large bonus for themselves when the rest of the staff is
           | asked to accept lower than inflation adjustments, as an
           | example?
           | 
           | I'd bet it's "brutal" but with a lot of information asymmetry
           | preventing the sorts of feedback I described.
        
             | xyzelement wrote:
             | Sure. Ray Dalio got public negative feedback all the time.
        
               | bumby wrote:
               | Can you clarify? I took the GP comment as asking whether
               | subordinate employees give leadership negative feedback.
               | That's a very different animal than general public
               | feedback. I think that distinction is important because
               | internal feedback tends to be much more relevant due to
               | the amount of non-public information employees have. I
               | suspect the GP point was that "brutal" feedback tends to
               | flow downhill within an organization.
               | 
               | Would you expect a custodian to be able to talk to Dalio
               | and say something like, "You know, your desk looks like a
               | pigsty and a cluttered environment can lead to a
               | cluttered mind and cluttered thinking."
        
               | andsoitis wrote:
               | > suspect the GP point was that "brutal" feedback tends
               | to flow downhill within an organization.
               | 
               | At companies with a strong feedback culture, critical
               | feedback tends to flow in exactly the opposite way you
               | describe: it is directed upwards...
        
               | willcipriano wrote:
               | You have to understand why someone would find this
               | surprising though right? Its counter to all human nature
               | I have observed. It's like telling me you have water
               | running uphill on your property, I'm right to have
               | questions, the most reasonable explanation is some sort
               | of trickery is at play.
        
               | swatcoder wrote:
               | It's funny to have to say this in a thread about explicit
               | feedback and psychological safety, but:
               | 
               | Nobody here was suggesting that your question was foolish
               | or that it was not asked in earnest surprise. _Clearly_ ,
               | this is something that surprises you and that's fine.
               | Good on you for asking questions to better understand!
               | 
               | Encountering something that is "counter to all human
               | nature I have observed" is a good clue that you've been
               | carrying a big a blindspot of your own. There are _many_
               | traditional cultures and modern communities that are
               | quite forward about feedback and criticism in a pervasive
               | way. Often, in these groups, continued authority is
               | earned exactly _through_ one 's handling of open
               | criticism from their subordinates.
               | 
               | Do you process it in stride and contextualize it?
               | Acknowledge the person for sharing it? Hold strong in
               | your own self-assurance? Fold it into your future
               | decisions? Or do you defensively fly off the handle and
               | repress those who you see as threatening you?
               | 
               | I'm sorry if you're only familiar with that last
               | strategy, but it's not nearly universal. In this case,
               | the water really does flow uphill in a lot of places.
        
               | lazyasciiart wrote:
               | This is an extraordinarily condescending comment, with a
               | lot of weakly justified assumptions about the other
               | commenter.
        
               | xyzelement wrote:
               | I am not the person you're replying to but I reached the
               | same conclusion that they have. When someone claims as
               | impossible that which you have experienced (and in fact,
               | experienced consistently across decades) - at some point
               | you have to conclude that they simply lack the experience
               | that would make this as obvious to them. It's not a bad
               | thing but it's just kinda real.
               | 
               | It's like the opposite of survivorship bias. Because you
               | have only seen things go badly, you conclude the good is
               | impossible, something like that.
        
               | bumby wrote:
               | I did not read the original comment as "claims as
               | impossible" but rather "not very generalizable". One of
               | the important things about receiving feedback IMO is to
               | steelman the feedback as much as possible.
        
               | xyzelement wrote:
               | // It's like telling me you have water running uphill on
               | your property, I'm right to have questions, the most
               | reasonable explanation is some sort of trickery is at
               | play.
               | 
               | Skepticism is one thing but it's good not let it blind
               | you to exceptionally good situations you can learn from.
               | 
               | Instead of your water running uphill analogy - I'd use
               | marriage. Most marriage ends in divorce today, but if you
               | see a couple that has been successfully married for
               | decades, do you go "that must be bullshit" or do you go
               | "I wonder what they are doing that others aren't doing"
               | and seek to learn from that for your own life.
               | 
               | FWIW I am a Bridgewater alumni and can attest to the
               | absolute ease of giving negative upward feedback - but
               | you can also look at the outcomes. World's most
               | successful hegefund across 4 decades, a highly desirable
               | place to work, and a place where alumni "graduate" from
               | to be massively successful elsewhere. Does that sound
               | like "just another place where my cynical world view
               | applies" or does it sound like "a place that has actually
               | figured out something special and is able to stand out
               | against the backdrop" - and thus is worthy to learn from?
        
               | xyzelement wrote:
               | // Would you expect a custodian to be able to talk to
               | Dalio and say something like, "You know, your desk looks
               | like a pigsty and a cluttered environment can lead to a
               | cluttered mind and cluttered thinking."
               | 
               | Absolutely!
               | 
               | Take a look at rays Ted talk for a few examples. They are
               | representative.
        
             | novok wrote:
             | I've worked at a small place with "radical candor" (it's a
             | book) and how I think about it is like working with power
             | tools while walking on a tightrope. It's really easy to
             | screw up and cut off someone's hand, and I think
             | bridgewater fires a lot AFAIK or has a lot of turn over as
             | a result.
             | 
             | Another thing is that it can easily make people pretty
             | defensive, and you need very mature and forgiving/accepting
             | people or rough and tumble culture (think Linus Torvalds)
             | for it work properly. It's very easy to hide emotions with
             | intellectual rationalizations unfortunately.
             | 
             | I also think it can be very useful and push to excellence,
             | but most IMO don't have the emotional maturity to pull it
             | off properly. I think it's the same reason why a lot of
             | startups die because of cofounder conflict.
        
           | xyzelement wrote:
           | That's a great hypothetical that may apply in some places.
           | What made Bridgewater a one in a million company is precisely
           | that we all opted in to operating in this transparent and
           | "harsh" way.
           | 
           | I never worked at a place with as much "psychological safety"
           | as BW because the culture was explicitly "you must say what
           | is in your mind". Every other place that I heard talk about
           | psychological safety has so much walking on eggshells that
           | real problems couldn't be called out.
        
             | JadeNB wrote:
             | > What made Bridgewater a one in a million company is
             | precisely that we all opted in to operating in this
             | transparent and "harsh" way.
             | 
             | I find this very hard to believe. I can buy that everyone
             | knows, and even accepts, the risks coming in, but that
             | doesn't mean that everyone opts into it, except in the
             | weakest possible sense of opting in (the sense in which I
             | opt in to cookie collection, for example, but weaker--
             | because I just _want_ to get to a website, whereas the
             | people  'opting in' to this feedback system _have_ to get a
             | job, and may not have the resources to pick and choose).
        
               | xyzelement wrote:
               | // whereas the people 'opting in' to this feedback system
               | have to get a job, and may not have the resources to pick
               | and choose
               | 
               | That's just not what it is in practice. The kinds of
               | people these companies hire have a lot of choices. Nobody
               | is in position where the only company that will hire them
               | is the world's premier and most selective hedge fund.
               | 
               | In reality most people who entered BW, were either
               | "poached" from top-tier financial firms (and more
               | recently FAANGS) or were graduates of top schools who had
               | other offers. Materially nobody faces the choice between
               | unemployment and "living the principles" - people opt
               | into BW from among their choices _because_ the culture
               | appeals to them.
        
           | antisthenes wrote:
           | > It creates a lack of psychological safety, where people are
           | afraid to speak up with different ideas and the culture
           | stagnates.
           | 
           | One person's psychological safety is another person's
           | inability to give honest feedback to a teammate who's a drain
           | on everyone.
           | 
           | It's a fragile balance that should be maintained carefully by
           | talented leadership.
        
             | bumby wrote:
             | I don't know if I agree with the first statement, but I
             | agree that leadership plays a big role.
             | 
             | I think psychological safety is the opposite of what you
             | described. According to Adam Grant, it's the ability to
             | give candid feedback without interpersonal risk. Related to
             | my original comment, it's the ability to share ideas, even
             | half-baked ones, without fear that they will define you as
             | a person. The downside to "brutal" feedback is when people
             | conflate the idea with the person sharing it.
        
           | xyzwave wrote:
           | Tangent, but I never realized the original for this great
           | Alan J. Perlis quote:
           | 
           | > A LISP programmer knows the value of everything, but the
           | cost of nothing.
           | 
           | https://cpsc.yale.edu/epigrams-programming
        
         | adamgordonbell wrote:
         | Please say more about plusses of Bridgewater!
         | 
         | The Fund is a great read and I'm sure it only painting a
         | certain side of the story. But it made all the talked about
         | Bridgewater stuff sound like a complicated distraction for a
         | founder with some specific vision that was a bit odd. Meanwhile
         | the working of the actual fund is based on hunches, insider
         | gossip and large macro bets run by a very small team, while
         | everyone is playing complicated status games.
        
           | xyzelement wrote:
           | I didn't read the fund but I read some of the articles
           | released based on it when it published and it rang hollow to
           | me.
           | 
           | It had the vibe of a couch potato writing about an Olympic
           | team complaining "look how harsh the coach is" - divorced
           | from the reality of what it takes to be an Olympic athlete
           | and that the athletes signed up for that kind of training.
        
             | adamgordonbell wrote:
             | Oh, I thought you meant you worked there.
             | 
             | The fund is based on interviews with people who were pretty
             | senior there. I mean, they no longer do, and the book is
             | clearly giving things a negative light, but you can learn a
             | lot from it about who can give who 'Brutal Feedback' and
             | how a utopian vision becomes a dystopia for people further
             | down the chain.
        
               | xyzelement wrote:
               | I did work there for two years within the investment
               | engine - the old school core. It was a very
               | transformative two years both as a professional and as a
               | person so I got what I came for.
        
               | bumby wrote:
               | If you don't mind sharing, why did you leave?
        
               | xyzelement wrote:
               | I got fired. That sounds "bad" but part of working there
               | is that you have to be sober about the reality and are
               | willing to just engage with it as is.
               | 
               | The reality is that my department was people-rich and
               | pretty mature, so when COVID hit and the company looked
               | to lean up, it looked to my area to trim. Out of my peer
               | group, I am pretty sure I was the least valuable (I am
               | excellent at what I do but I was the lest excellent in my
               | peer group there) so I was let go.
               | 
               | It was technically a lay-off but I am sober about the
               | fact that I was chosen for the layoff because of my
               | relative performance, which makes sense.
               | 
               | (FWIW I was given a very comfortable severance package, I
               | would even say very generous and I suspect some of that
               | generosity was because I had recently had a child. While
               | BW is a place that is "brutal" in terms of high
               | expectations and feedback, it absolutely took care of
               | people in this way.)
        
               | sdwr wrote:
               | That's the honesty and directness shining through!
        
         | vipshek wrote:
         | I was a software intern at Bridgewater in 2013. My impressions
         | from that time are that Bridgewater had an interesting, unique,
         | and very intentional culture, but at some point the firm grew
         | and Dalio started thinking about how to scale that culture. He
         | wrote the Principles book and had everyone read and discuss it;
         | the Dots app was implemented; etc.
         | 
         | The core cultural values seemed reasonable to me, but the
         | efforts to scale the culture felt heavyhanded and seemed like
         | they sometimes backfired. Attempting to quantify someone's
         | "believability" based on subjective data collected on an iPad
         | app was a bit silly and easily gameable. The fact that Dalio
         | and other executives scored highest on basically every facet
         | was an obvious sign that the system was a bit farcical.
         | 
         | Maybe the company managed to solve some of those cultural
         | scaling challenges after 2013? I wasn't around to see what
         | happened after.
        
           | adamgordonbell wrote:
           | If fact there was active work to make Dalio top on
           | believability and have it flow from there. The developer
           | behind it is extensively interviewed in "The Firm."
           | 
           | Dalio and others being on top of rating was a way Dalio
           | sanity checked the algo, per the book and was not happy when
           | it drifted away from that standard.
           | 
           | How much of the book's content is shaded by sour grapes is
           | unclear though.
        
       | a_c wrote:
       | Knowing is one thing, wanting is another, and then there is
       | acting. Sometimes it is peaceful to embrace who you are.
       | Sometimes it is liberating to push to your limits. Most of the
       | time, I'm giving myself excuse to be lazy
        
       | vmoore wrote:
       | I swing between my comfort zone, and growth mindset. Sometimes
       | projects just become maintenance mode for a while, other times I
       | expand my knowledge, try new things, learn from mistakes. You
       | have to have a beginner's mind, and be willing to look pathetic
       | on your first try and leave ego at the door. Become vulnerable.
        
       | Mawr wrote:
       | > When I met Johanna, far from there, in a university town, she
       | made a deep and perplexing impression on me: the precision of her
       | attention and the intensity of her curiosity were unlike anything
       | I had seen, and yet, despite this, she was almost completely
       | ignorant. If I mentioned the First World War, she would say,
       | "When was that?" But if I explained an area I was researching, it
       | would take her five minutes to cut through to the deep,
       | underlying question that had eluded me for months.
       | 
       | Knowledge and intelligence are orthogonal concepts. It's
       | important not to conflate them.
        
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