[HN Gopher] Ikigai: What We Got Wrong and How to Find Meaning in...
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Ikigai: What We Got Wrong and How to Find Meaning in Life
Author : pmzy
Score : 159 points
Date : 2024-03-21 12:50 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (nesslabs.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (nesslabs.com)
| throwaway_08932 wrote:
| > Japanese do not need grandiose motivational frameworks to keep
| going, but rely more on the little rituals in their daily
| routines.
| ljoshua wrote:
| This was a nice reframing of the concept of ikigai as I've heard
| it, and a quick consult of Wikipedia for ikigai [0] shows that
| it's largely accurate.
|
| I'd also throw out there that one can derive a lot of purpose and
| meaning in life from religion as well. I certainly do. There are
| many motivating factors in life, and some core religious beliefs
| can do this quite effectively, in a positive manner.
|
| [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikigai
| 47282847 wrote:
| Spirituality != Religion
| graemep wrote:
| This is hardly a novel idea in the rest of the world. It is an
| ancient one and widespread. It is discussed by many philosophers
| and is discussed in many religions.
|
| It strikes me that westerners have lost the roots of their
| culture and are having to relearn it from elsewhere.
|
| "ikigai doesn't limit someone's value in life to career and
| financial status"
|
| Ancient Greek philosophers and their successors frequently
| discussed happiness and how to live life.
|
| Assuming it is being explained correctly here, that is less anti-
| wealth than Christianity ("it is easier for a camel to pass
| through the eye of a needle" etc) but similar in rejecting
| financial status.
|
| Buddhism regards wealth as an attachment so I would have expected
| a slightly different attitude.
|
| From middle eastern (possibly Hellenised) culture before
| Christianity read the book of Ecclesiastes.
|
| "What does a man acquire from all his labor and from the anxiety
| that accompanies his toil on earth? For all day long his work
| produces pain and frustration,) and even at night his mind cannot
| relax! This also is futile! There is nothing better for people
| than to eat and drink, and to find enjoyment in their work."
| mistermann wrote:
| > This is hardly a novel idea in the rest of the world. It is
| an ancient one and widespread.
|
| This (like so many other things) is a very ontologically tricky
| proposition due to the deceptive distinction between abstract
| and concrete "is-ness". It is true that _at least one_ Human in
| each country possesses _at least some_ knowledge of such
| things, _but how well distributed is the knowledge_? The so
| casually deployed symbol "is" _makes no distinction_ , and
| Humans generally _do not have the ability_ to consider such
| things.
|
| Even weirder: Hard Whorfism "is" "false".
|
| > It strikes me that westerners have lost the roots of their
| culture and are having to relearn it from elsewhere.
|
| Absolutely agree....perhaps this is (at least in part) because
| _we never learned in the first place_ (other than abstractly,
| and even there only for a small percentage of the population)
| the difference between abstract and concrete "reality",
| because such things are not taught in standard curriculum in
| school (see also: financial planning, how to be nice,
| categorization in general (ontology/taxonomy), etc).
|
| I often wonder if all of the sub-optimalities in our "advanced,
| 'scientific' culture" are _purely_ coincidences / oversights.
| That people seem to so reliably (in frequency, _and form_ )
| have an innate and very strong aversion (a lot like how
| religious or anti-religious people get nervous/agitated if one
| is to call into question the truth of scripture) to discussing
| such matters _in the context of concrete reality_ makes me more
| than a little suspicious.
| divinie wrote:
| > a lot like how religious or anti-religious people get
| nervous/agitated if one is to call into question the truth.
|
| You're recognizing the same bias. It's not that there are
| oversights so much as there are widespread ideas believed to
| be definitive. Rather than teaching people the "right ideas,"
| at this point I feel it's critical that people learn how
| cognitive biases work, namely, authority bias. On the matter
| of beliefs, Crony Beliefs is a gem
| https://meltingasphalt.com/crony-beliefs/
| graemep wrote:
| I agree it is a problem, but I do not think teaching people
| about cognitive biases will solve it. It is very hard to
| apply it to yourself, and any kind of critical thinking is
| hard.
|
| A lot of people will not even make the effort. The
| motivation comes from existing values and beliefs, which
| will have been subject to biases themselves!
| divinie wrote:
| Not claiming this is ethical, but the biases can be used
| on the person to generate the motivation and emotional
| response to recognize that they don't want to suffer from
| exploitation of the biases
|
| As for the reason it would help the issue, if the person
| is not susceptible to these, they will not be susceptible
| to the industries, governments, teachers that exploit
| these. They'll recognize it before falling for it.
|
| As for the difficulty level, it could be made simple.
| They aren't complex, they are just unknown
| graemep wrote:
| > I often wonder if all of the sub-optimalities in our
| "advanced, 'scientific' culture" are purely coincidences /
| oversights. That people seem to so reliably (in frequency,
| and form) have an innate and very strong aversion (a lot like
| how religious or anti-religious people get nervous/agitated
| if one is to call into question the truth of scripture) to
| discussing such matters in the context of concrete reality
| makes me more than a little suspicious.
|
| I think you are right, but I am not sure what the underlying
| problem is. I wonder whether there is a bit of cowardice
| there and a fear of where the line of thought will lead - not
| wanting to turn the stone over for fear of what you will
| find. Our scientific culture is afraid of facing facts.
| mihaic wrote:
| Sometimes truths have to come from the outside for them to be
| accepted by the closed minded.
|
| As the Enlightenment already absorbed eastern concepts into the
| western plane to some degree already (see the roots in Hume for
| instance), the relationship of westerners with eastern concepts
| as like hiring a consultant to tell you all the things that
| your employees were already saying, but which were ignored
| since they were merely grunts.
| geye1234 wrote:
| Is the history of the Enlightenment's link with eastern
| concepts documented anywhere?
|
| Clearly Hume uses eastern concepts ("I" am just a bundle of
| thoughts; causality is just a projection; etc). And the anti-
| Aristotelianism of the Enlightenment (hostility to concepts
| such as substantial form) could be seen as eastern too. I'm
| not sure if this history has ever been documented though.
|
| The Enlightenment is seen as paradigmatically western, and in
| a way it is, and yet it tried to reject pretty much the
| entirety of western philosophy that came before it -- perhaps
| even under eastern influence.
|
| Stuff is never simple, is it?
| FrustratedMonky wrote:
| Yes.
|
| With all of these examples. The trick seems to be in 'how'.
| Everyone can read this article, or a Buddhist text, or some
| Stoic essays, and agree and think it would be a good idea.
|
| The 'how' to get there, seems to be the gap.
|
| Everyone agrees having 'purpose' is great. The 'how to find a
| purpose' is the problem. Not just intellectually 'decide on a
| purpose', but 'believe in a purpose'.
| hosh wrote:
| There is no procedural method or recipe in which would lead
| to someone finding their purpose like that. This purpose
| isn't a purely objective and externalized thing. To do
| otherwise, it would be no different than partaking in one of
| those FB quizzes that would, based upon some input, spit out
| which Harry Potter House you belong to, or what kind of D&D
| class you have.
|
| You have to take the time to allow yourself to be aware of
| what's going on within yourself, and what's going on in the
| community around you. This "awareness" isn't the same as
| collecting data, or constructing thoughts that interpret
| things. It's not an easy thing to convey, since many people
| will take what I'm saying here and turn it into yet another
| recipe. And if I then say, it's more like mindfulness
| meditation, then all sorts of ideas and interpretation gets
| added to that, making it far away from I'm saying here.
|
| I'm not very articulate about this. But maybe Carol Sanford's
| _Regenerative Life_ would better able to convey just how to
| find your unique contribution to that which is greater than
| yourself.
| chasd00 wrote:
| > The 'how to find a purpose' is the problem.
|
| zen would say the harder you try the further away you'll be.
| You do have a purpose only as much as you don't. ..."sense"
| isn't the right word but it makes sense to me, it's more like
| just something you realize.
| Oioioioiio wrote:
| Thats a very hard simplification in a complex modern world.
|
| A world like now never existed before: Millions of people
| living in cities were they are not able at all to live in
| nature or can't afford to move away or into the cities.
|
| A world with high speed communication.
|
| A world with unlimited possibilities.
|
| A world were you grew up without ever having to learn were your
| water comes from and how your food is made.
|
| The world doesn't need most of us, this was never the case in
| the past. I'm a smart person, i'm not needed because there are
| still enough even smarter people.
|
| And regarding your quote of the Christians: They don't live it
| either or never lived. The dark ages produced a lot of
| christian focused 'art' full of gold.
|
| And in the past, if you had any mental illness, you just might
| have been killed or put in shackles.
| hosh wrote:
| > Thats a very hard simplification in a complex modern world.
|
| Although I think the issues are complex, I disagree that the
| complexity of the modern world itself leads to this.
|
| One of the core features of modernization has to do with the
| substitution of local communities with regional and global
| institutions. That alone changed many things.
|
| It also does not help that our civilization keeps making this
| mistake: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/07/26/a-big-little-
| idea-call... ... that is, the effort by modern institutions
| to make sense of the world in a legible way leads to imposing
| simplification on the world. The world was already complex,
| even in pre-modern times.
|
| > The world doesn't need most of us, this was never the case
| in the past. I'm a smart person, i'm not needed because there
| are still enough even smarter people.
|
| If we take a person's worth as a _quantity_, sure. We can
| reduce every person into a set of stats, similar to D&D
| character sheets, and every person fits into roles based upon
| those stats. Those stats make things more legible.
|
| Each person, however, has a _quality_, and it is here one's
| unique purpose and contribution can be discovered. I didn't
| learn this from ikigai specifically; as one of the comments
| talked about, some form of this was widely known in pre-
| modernized cultures. Carol Sanford has been writing, talking,
| and practicing this as applied to the modern world for
| decades.
|
| There's also the work of Christopher Alexander. His writings
| and work convinced me that modernity did not have to be
| designed this way.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| I don't think that Oioioioiio was saying that each person
| doesn't have intrinsic worth (quality, as you put it), more
| like that each of us has such a small piece of the puzzle
| now. In the past if you lost a community member who had
| critical knowledge and skills it would endanger the
| survival of the community. Now there aren't a lot of
| communities where that would be the case.
| hosh wrote:
| I wasn't talking about intrinsic worth at all. That kind
| of framing is still looking at things in terms of
| quantity rather than quality. I'm talking about the
| difference in the very worldview and paradigm. I am
| certainly not just talking about the material production
| someone can contribute.
|
| The unique contribution someone can make isn't
| necessarily about the survival of the community. When I
| say unique, it means once that person has passed, there
| will never be again that particular contribution -- at
| the very minimum, the environment, relationship, and
| moment is unique, as is the person. As such, the
| community also grows and changes over time, a living
| system as much as the individual people within the
| community are themselves living systems.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| > And regarding your quote of the Christians: They don't live
| it either or never lived. The dark ages produced a lot of
| christian focused 'art' full of gold.
|
| There have always been Christians who at least _tried_ to
| live it. They 're in the minority and they weren't and aren't
| the ones you hear much about (or from) but that's kind of the
| point.
| graemep wrote:
| So why were people considering these questions so long ago?
| It s not the modern world that is the only problem.
|
| > And regarding your quote of the Christians: They don't live
| it either or never lived.
|
| Lots of people have. Not everyone was perfect, but it was an
| aspiration, and there are whole traditions of monasticism and
| other service based on it. It is no accident that the word
| organisations that help others is derived from a Christian
| theological term, charity.
|
| > The dark ages produced a lot of christian focused 'art'
| full of gold.
|
| The dark ages were not dark.
|
| Art is one of the things that contribute to the community,
| and its creation leads the artist to fulfilment. Public art
| (which is what religious art usually is) is the opposite of
| hoarding private art.
|
| > A world with unlimited possibilities.
|
| Very few people have access "unlimited possibilities".
| Financial constraints, legal constraints, personal
| constraints..
| woliveirajr wrote:
| > The world doesn't need most of us
|
| Perfect. It isn't even a matter of being replaceable: it's
| just that so many people might die, anywhere in the world,
| and you don't even notice it.
| nathan_compton wrote:
| The world has never needed us, in my opinion. Other human
| beings may find you useful, love you, whatever, and you may
| find some kind justification for your own existence, but
| the world itself has never cared about people.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Ecclesiastes, probably the first existential text that we have.
| In a lot of ways it seems really contemporary.
| graemep wrote:
| There was a question some months ago on the Academic Bibical
| Reddit asking what religious text non-religious people there
| liked the most and it was by far the most popular with them.
|
| I read a bit again recently because someone quoted part of
| what I quoted with regard to work and education, and it
| really does feel contemporary. That said, it is not that
| uncommon for ancient texts to feel relevant. I do not read a
| lot of ancient texts but one I did recently, pseudo-
| Xenophon's Constitution of the Athenians had several things,
| including a great passage about the rich and democracy.
|
| There is a lovely reading of it by David Suchet that is on
| Youtube.
| jmbwell wrote:
| Sure, but it's not like humans in all parts of the world
| haven't been proposing models for understanding happiness in
| some form or another since before the written word.
|
| If it were possible to compare every model for happiness ever
| conceived, they'll likely have a few things in common. Mostly,
| they will propose factors that are familiar within a group's
| common frame of reference, those factors will address that
| group's common experiences and habits, and the formula will
| project a roadmap for making changes in those habits to realign
| the experiences with "happiness."
|
| In other words, "we all tend to do one thing, but doing another
| is probably better, and it's easy to forget, so here's way to
| remember." If it's useful to anyone at all, it's of value. If
| it's useful to larger group, then a utilitarian might say it
| has greater value. But even the assessment of value is
| culturally-dependent, so it's kind of pointless to argue about
| the virtues of different models on the basis of their cultures
| of origin.
|
| So of course different cultures present things differently. It
| doesn't have to mean anyone is losing the roots of their own
| culture. Foucault would argue that being anything other than a
| part of your own culture is impossible. Even if you reject your
| own culture, you're rejecting the culture you're a part of, and
| that becomes a part of that culture. You just can't _not_ be
| who you are, where you are, and a product of your experiences.
|
| If the differences in habits among various cultures become more
| apparent in a direct comparison, that's mostly down to the
| different frames of reference that determine the signs and
| signifiers used to express and internalize the models. But
| within each culture, the mechanisms themselves are often
| fundamentally the same. We manage resources as a group, we
| figure out who's us and who's them, we defend the group against
| threats, and we generally aim to reproduce. Whatever else goes
| on, our culture is how we communicate among ourselves what to
| expect from each other as we all go about those activities. It
| gives us the language we use, which Pinkerton et al might go so
| far as to say shapes the very ideas we have about ourselves and
| each other, including our "secrets to happiness."
|
| The point is, there are many models for understanding
| happiness. Some we know more about because they've established
| a large socio-economic footprint, like the major religions, and
| some are more academic thought experiments, like what the
| ancient greeks tended to get up to. Others are more directly
| products of and by their host culture. Ikigai is this. If
| people find it accessible and useful, that's nothing but great.
| Is it a very Japanese way of looking at it? Sure. Is it some
| innate universal truth and wisdom? I dunno, but I bet someone
| pushing that narrative has a book or a seminar to sell.
|
| In any case, for most purposes, the meme is probably enough. Do
| what you can to do what you love, that you're good at, that
| helps you survive, that helps your group survive.
|
| In "westerner" kindergarten, they simplify it even further: do
| only what is necessary, helpful, and/or kind. Don't even need a
| graduate philosophy degree for that.
| MenhirMike wrote:
| > It strikes me that westerners have lost the roots of their
| culture and are having to relearn it from elsewhere.
|
| Rome defeating Carthage was legitimately one of the worst
| things that ever happened in history.
| koliber wrote:
| I have not understood the need of a purpose in life until I found
| myself in situations where direction evaporated. It is
| discomforting, surprising, and enlightening. This happened a few
| times, and I learned something new each time. It's a journey of
| self-discovery. Thinking of it both in grandiose terms as well as
| in the little habits was helpful.
|
| It's also helpful to see what others do in such situations. Some
| common situations where the purpose in life changes:
|
| - retirement
|
| - kids moving out of the house
|
| - hitting a grand goal (i.e. buying a house, trip of a lifetime)
|
| - financial sufficiency or independence
|
| - finishing college
|
| Ikigai is a neat lens for exploring this part of self.
| oldstrangers wrote:
| "until I found myself in situations where direction
| evaporated."
|
| This is the important part. Most people simply work themselves
| to death and never find the time to ask these kinds of
| questions. Or, they did ask themselves these questions at one
| point and realized working themselves to death was a more
| pleasant route than struggling with such existential problems.
| balfirevic wrote:
| Most people work themselves to death?
| oldstrangers wrote:
| Correct.
| ProllyInfamous wrote:
| >Some common situations where the purpose in life changes:
|
| I have best heard these moments called " _now what?_ moments. "
| lucidrains wrote:
| "There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what
| one wants, and the other is getting it." - Oscar Wilde
| chasd00 wrote:
| > - kids moving out of the house
|
| I've been starting to think about this as i've got maybe 4-5
| years left to prepare, it's not that comfortable of a thought.
| I read an article in the WSJ about new empty nesters and one
| guy described it as similar to getting fired. Like he had
| worked so hard for 18 years and then one day he gets "by dad,
| see you at Thanksgiving" and it was over. haha (but not really
| haha)
| agumonkey wrote:
| Warning: depending on your life, the first reading about ikigai
| might make you even more depressed (cause it may reopen wounds)
| phkahler wrote:
| There are 4 regions in the diagram that have no labels. These are
| all one step away from the Ikigai. Each of these would be "close
| but not quite" for a different reason.
|
| Edit: Haha, as I read on it's not necessary to find the "one
| thing".
| irq-1 wrote:
| https://management30.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/IKIGAI--...
|
| They're labeled on the linked image.
| ojo-rojo wrote:
| This kind of reminds me of something Mariko told the Anjin in the
| show Shogun. He wanted to leave Japan and be free of rituals and
| she said something like "If you're always chasing freedom you'll
| never find yourself."
| JohnMakin wrote:
| Dealing with this kind of angst most of my life, I've found great
| value in this and similar philosophies. However, it should also
| be noted that Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the
| world (not that far ahead of the US though).
| ed_mercer wrote:
| Japan's suicide rate is significant but not among the highest
| in the world when compared with other countries
| https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-r...
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| For most of my life I kept thinking I was looking for financial
| independence, knowing full well I'd continue to work if I hit it.
| But this posed a problem: why work hard toward that if the day-
| to-day wouldn't change much? Eventually I reconciled this when I
| encountered Epictetus: I was actually looking for a mental
| freedom to find my own meaning, identity, and grow my capacity to
| choose the good on a daily basis. It was less about the total
| dollar amount and more about the perception of my own agency.
|
| In fact, I'd much rather grow the meta-skills that let me
| flourish in life across multiple dimensions than have a bunch of
| cash land on my doorstep. This is either wise or the type of
| thing you tell yourself when you haven't had outsized success.
| But, I also realize the former is 100% more resilient even if it
| is much harder.
|
| From here, the fog has started to lift, and I can continue the
| work of uncovering my resilient core of personality.
| ajkjk wrote:
| It is amusing that the arguments for this are like "it reduces
| anxiety" and "it's good for your heart". Like... yes... in that
| it makes you happier or more fulfilled or whatever, and therefore
| it has those effects? But if what draws you to a philosophy is
| the health benefits... you're fucked.
| tmountain wrote:
| Seems like the health benefits would typically be viewed as the
| byproduct of the practice. I doubt many people explore
| philosophy directly for their health.
| knightoffaith wrote:
| I don't really understand. Is the article saying that how to find
| meaning in life is by rejecting grand narratives and finding
| meaning in small things? That sounds to me like saying that how
| to find meaning in life is by... finding meaning in it. Don't get
| me wrong, it does seem correct to stop seeking your one true
| passion, embrace lifelong learning, letting go of lofty financial
| goals, and stop feeling like your only goal should be saving the
| world. But I'm not clear on _why_ or _how_ we should, in the
| "ikigai worldview", find meaning in doing these things.
|
| Really, it seems to me that the implication in the article is
| that the question "how do I find meaning in life?" is basically
| the wrong question to ask, that life is not the kind of thing
| that has meaning, and that we should instead just focus on being
| happy, which can be accomplished by small things. That would make
| sense to me.
|
| Though I prefer the western idea that there is a grand life
| purpose. The 4 "ikigai principles" are perfectly compatible with
| there being a grand life purpose - that there is a grand
| narrative in which we are partaking doesn't mean that every
| individual person has be some world-renowned entrepreneur or
| something. An analogy - a team of stonemasons working on building
| a cathedral may each individually be working on a small piece of
| the final building that, to the individual, doesn't appear very
| meaningful or important. But the sum total of the work of all the
| stonemasons culminates in something grand and beautiful.
| photochemsyn wrote:
| Reminiscent of the Akira Kurosawa film 'Ikiru' (1952):
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikiru
| freemanon wrote:
| Looking at the term "Ikigai" as if it's some sort of dogma or a
| way to improve one's life sorts of defeats the point. East Asian
| philosophies are not for achieving "meaning of life" and other
| mundane goals.
| nox101 wrote:
| I lived in Japan for 18 years. Japan is not known for people
| following any of the advice in this article
|
| > Stop seeking your One True Passion
|
| 1000s of examples of Japanese people following their passion to
| extremes exceeding most non-Japanese expectations.
|
| A famous example would be Jiro from "Jiro Dreams of Sushi"
|
| Japan is a place where lots people give their lives to their
| company. I've met plenty of Japanese who work 10am with 90 minute
| commute (so 8:30am) to 10pm (and 90 mins back) 5 days a week, all
| year. These people have families but they readily admit they
| spend more time with coworkers than family and are in many ways
| closer to them.
| geraldhh wrote:
| > These people have families but they readily admit they spend
| more time with coworkers than family and are in many ways
| closer to them.
|
| baring the closeness part, this seems rather ubiquitous
| ChidiKajal wrote:
| still not sure what to think about the popularized ikigai venn
| diagram but thought this talk by Everything Everywhere All at
| once directors at SXSW recently covered some interesting and
| entertaining perspectives on the idea
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBANXz79fDg
| xyzelement wrote:
| This deeply resonates, but I am also inherently biased towards
| seeking meaning and long-run impact. There are various western
| schools of thought that add up to the same thing, eg Viktor
| Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning.
|
| Sometimes I see posts on HN and elsewhere that seem to be
| divorced from a "meaning"-full perspective. I don't mean someone
| who finds _different_ meaning than I do, but someone who doesn 't
| think meaning matters at all. Sometimes it comes out as "I don't
| understand why anyone would have kids when it's much easier to
| just get brunch" or "I don't understand why work that impacts
| people is more valuable than one that doesn't" etc. FWIW, I
| sometimes check those folks comment history and they don't seem
| to be particularly happy despite (or maybe because of) the fact
| that they removed all onus of meaning from themselves.
| dhosek wrote:
| There's a recent (2023) novel translated from Japanese for which
| this is a central concept in the plot (since I read it in
| translation, I don't know if Ikigai is mentioned in the
| original). It's entitled _What You Are Looking For Is In The
| Library_ by Michiko Aoyama.
| http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1335005625/donhosek
|
| I first learned of it thanks to reading all the shortlist books
| from this year's Tournament of Books
| https://www.tournamentofbooks.com
| blueyes wrote:
| I like the idea of finding micro-habits, activities and
| relationships that are fulfilling.
|
| While Ikigai may have been repurposed by the West, its new
| incarnation and Venn diagram seems like a pretty valuable tool
| for young people to navigate life, even if it's a radical
| semantic shift from the original Japanese. It also has the merit
| of trying to awaken peoples' ambition, to raise the ceiling on
| what they think they might achieve, and how to get there, which
| Anne-Marie's originalism lacks.
| Zufriedenheit wrote:
| This reminds me of the recent movie "Perfect Days". It's about a
| japanese man who lives his ikigai cleaning Tokyo toilets.
| schneebyte wrote:
| I prefer "flexible" stoicism, like Seneca.
|
| In the scale of the universe (time and space) we are all
| insignificant, like tiny ants. One ant has more money than the
| others. Another ant is famous.
|
| Don't be afraid of death. Enjoy living in the present. Try to do
| good.
|
| Of course easier said than done.
| _tk_ wrote:
| Ikigai is one of these concepts, that I suspect to be mostly
| substituted by western life coach BS, which mostly means common
| sense application of modern-ish western philosophy to daily life
| including work. Unfortunately, when it is presented through the
| lens of someone who has lived in Japan for 7 months, this hardly
| changes my biased view.
| sevagh wrote:
| Anybody else feel like you enjoy the feeling of "having had done
| a thing" more than doing the thing?
| aradox66 wrote:
| Type 2 fun
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