[HN Gopher] Crookes Radiometer
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       Crookes Radiometer
        
       Author : niklasbuschmann
       Score  : 65 points
       Date   : 2024-03-20 20:56 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | volemo wrote:
       | Interesting videos that explain how the radiometer works:
       | 
       | - https://youtu.be/t-JN2U4jHgk by Applied Science
       | 
       | - https://youtu.be/r7NEI_C9Yh0 by Technology Connections
        
         | erk__ wrote:
         | And one that says a bit about Sir William Crookes and shows of
         | some of the Radiometers he made:
         | 
         | - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0f5i7r02dg by Objectivity
        
       | jihadjihad wrote:
       | > [Crookes] was weighing samples in a partially evacuated chamber
       | to reduce the effect of air currents, and noticed the weighings
       | were disturbed when sunlight shone on the balance. Investigating
       | this effect, he created the device named after him.
       | 
       | Whenever I read about little discoveries like this, I get a
       | smile. Same thing with the guy that had the candy bar in his
       | pocket and discovered microwave energy could be used to heat
       | stuff up...must have been an exciting day!
        
         | dekhn wrote:
         | chance prepares the favored mind
        
         | dspillett wrote:
         | _> discovered microwave energy could be used to heat stuff_
         | 
         | It was already well known that EM waves / photons could heat
         | things, sunlight to give the most obvious example.
         | 
         | His discovery was how effectively specific frequency ranges1
         | can be at heating food by exciting the water within -
         | effectively enough that the technique once refined would be
         | useful for commercial and even domestic cooking, safely and at
         | practical cost.
         | 
         | --
         | 
         | [1] domestic ovens use +-2.45GHz, 915MHz is also effective and
         | used in larger commercial ovens as it can penetrate deeper into
         | the material being heated
        
           | CamperBob2 wrote:
           | 2.45 GHz has nothing to do with the physics of water
           | molecules or anything else. You could do the same thing at 13
           | MHz (diathermy) or 95 GHz (active denial). 2.45 GHz is just
           | where the FCC dumps RF signals they don't want to deal with.
        
             | Turing_Machine wrote:
             | You're correct that other frequencies would work, but have
             | the causality backward when it comes to 2.4-2.5 GHz being a
             | garbage dump. The nascent microwave oven industry was
             | making it into a de facto garbage dump, so the FCC
             | requested that the ITU assign it as an official garbage
             | dump. In other words, the ovens weren't put there because
             | it was a garbage dump, it became a garbage dump because
             | they were already there.
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | Yeah, good point there. Few licensed services probably
               | wanted to co-exist with the RF leakage from a microwave
               | oven.
               | 
               | I imagine that 2.45 GHz was chosen as a compromise
               | between cavity size/cost and food-penetrating power, but
               | I don't think I've seen a definitive historical answer.
               | The sweet spot for cooking effectiveness might even be at
               | a somewhat-higher frequency, but it would have been more
               | expensive to build ovens at higher frequencies back in
               | the day, and it would also be more expensive to shield
               | them properly. Like the GP suggests, at lower frequencies
               | the size of the whole thing starts to become a problem
               | for household use.
        
               | jhoechtl wrote:
               | No, the dimensions of the magnetron changes and the mesh
               | size at the door, otherwise it's just the same.
               | 
               | Penetration depth at higher frequencies is lower, a lower
               | resonant frequency penetrating deeper the tissue while
               | engaging water molecules would be better
        
               | Turing_Machine wrote:
               | This is pure speculation, but I wonder if it might also
               | have something to do with surplus cavity magnetrons (and
               | the production facilities for them) becoming available
               | post-WWII. I can't find anything definitive on production
               | models, but I was able to determine that the prototype
               | magnetron that Churchill sent to the United States in
               | secret operated at around 3 GHz...pretty close. Maybe
               | cheaper to use the ones that already had production lines
               | set up, if they were otherwise workable?
        
               | dtgriscom wrote:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peryton
        
             | AnimalMuppet wrote:
             | What does "active denial" mean in this context?
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | At higher frequencies, the problem with 2.4-GHz microwave
               | ovens only tending to cook the outer layers of food
               | becomes even more acute. If you were to actually build a
               | microwave oven at 95 GHz, it would suck because only the
               | very outermost layers of the 'food' would see any
               | meaningful heating.
               | 
               | Raytheon turned that particular lemon into lemonade:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System
        
       | fullspectrumdev wrote:
       | I have a couple of these literally as household decoration. They
       | are really quite neat.
        
         | weberer wrote:
         | Same, I found a 10 pack for $20 online a decade ago, and just
         | lined them around the house.
        
       | tomsmeding wrote:
       | > The Reynolds paper went unpublished for a while because it was
       | refereed by Maxwell, who then published a paper of his own, which
       | contained a critique of the mathematics in Reynolds's unpublished
       | paper. Maxwell died that year and the Royal Society refused to
       | publish Reynolds's critique of Maxwell's rebuttal to Reynolds's
       | unpublished paper, as it was felt that this would be an
       | inappropriate argument when one of the people involved had
       | already died.
       | 
       | Modern double-blind reviewing processes certainly have
       | advantages.
        
       | peterburkimsher wrote:
       | My dad had one of these at his desk at CERN, and would challenge
       | visitors to his office to explain the motion.
       | 
       | I have one at my desk now, and unfortunately it doesn't move. I
       | wish I sat closer to a window.
        
       | anfractuosity wrote:
       | Just came across this video, mentioned on the wikipedia page -
       | "Nano-sized light mill drives micro-sized disk"
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh5DPC1zoUs
        
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