[HN Gopher] Lego price per part over the years
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       Lego price per part over the years
        
       Author : janandonly
       Score  : 105 points
       Date   : 2024-03-19 20:01 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (brickinsights.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (brickinsights.com)
        
       | zitterbewegung wrote:
       | This doesn't take into account for the large amount of parts you
       | can get from eBay .
        
       | jbentleylong wrote:
       | Reminds me how much I love the Power Miners sets -- hate to see
       | the prices, though
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | > Many people quote that a set should be priced at around $0.10
       | per part to be worthwhile. Is this the average?
       | 
       | This has been the average, and it's so "perfect" that it has to
       | be that Lego has been aiming for it. They've accomplished this by
       | having more and more detail (read: smaller pieces) in newer sets.
       | 
       | They appear to have been forced (or trying) to jump to $0.20 per
       | piece in some sets (e.g., https://www.lego.com/en-
       | us/product/cinderella-and-prince-cha... )
        
         | bleepblop wrote:
         | I have a new metric when it comes to lego kits these days. How
         | many stickers are in the kit? And honestly it's too damn high.
         | I have been pretty vocal to lego about this in the past and
         | current times. If they can mass produce an uncountable amount
         | of minifigs with detailed paint schemes; they can do the same
         | for bricks in the set.
         | 
         | I have a hard time believing it's nothing more than a cost
         | cutting measure. And to add insult to injury; I have noticed
         | their quality control slipping over the years. For example: in
         | the past 40 years or so, I might get a kit with a piece missing
         | once a decade? Within the past 10 years I have had at least 7
         | kits missing pieces. And the frequency keeps growing. As a long
         | time lego enthusiast; they have been slowly losing my trust.
        
           | breuleux wrote:
           | How many sets do you buy per year, out of curiosity? I got
           | into Lego during the pandemic and bought around 50 sets in
           | the past three years. Over that sample, the number of missing
           | pieces was precisely zero.
        
             | bleepblop wrote:
             | I go on some wild stints. But if I had to average it out;
             | somewhere around 10-20 kits a year.
        
             | Larrikin wrote:
             | My experience is in fact the opposite. I usually buy the
             | larger sets, and have nearly always had left over smaller
             | pieces. It made me worried the first time it happened and I
             | spent the time tracing back through the model only to find
             | I didn't miss anything.
        
               | bleepblop wrote:
               | I wish I could say the same. The extra little guys is to
               | be expected. I am talking about key pieces to the puzzle.
        
               | jacurtis wrote:
               | They do precise weighing of bags as a quality control
               | measure. The tiny 1x1 type pieces are more likely to get
               | missed by the weighing so they often add an extra of
               | those pieces to offset a potential loss that might not
               | get noticed when weighing them.
               | 
               | That is why you always get two helmet visors for example
               | when you buy a speed champion. The machine is actually
               | just designed to give you two, because that way if it
               | breaks and misses one, you still have one that you need
               | and it costs them almost nothing to do that. But a
               | missing helmet visor is easy to get missed by the quality
               | control scale. So if you ever buy a speed champion and
               | only get one helmet visor, it is because you lost one or
               | the machine broke. But that's why there's an extra. They
               | do that by design. That's just one example. You see it
               | with magic wands in Harry Potter sets, you always get
               | two, and a lot of sets with 1x1 pieces will always have
               | 1-2 extras just because they are cheap to add in and more
               | likely to get missed in their QA process which weighs the
               | bags.
        
               | andruby wrote:
               | Every tiny 1x1 piece always comes with an extra. That
               | must be by design.
               | 
               | I think that's calculated in their cost of doing
               | business. Add one extra of each 1x1 probably eliminated
               | most of the missing parts issue at a fraction of the
               | cost.
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | > and have nearly always had left over smaller pieces
               | 
               | Almost every Lego set I've ever owned (going back 30+
               | years to when I used to get Lego) and now my son's Lego
               | recently have all had at least one leftover piece.
        
               | yownie wrote:
               | you and bleepblop should probably just correspond more
               | often
        
             | jacurtis wrote:
             | I've also always questioned this. I have purchased about 60
             | sets in the past 4 years. I have a friend who has purchased
             | well over 100 (he runs a Lego YouTube channel - he spends >
             | $6,000 a year on Lego by his estimation).
             | 
             | I have never had a missing piece. There have been two times
             | when I thought I was missing a piece and then found it
             | stuck in a bag or hidden under another piece. I've never
             | had to write to Lego to get a replacement (which I've heard
             | they are really easy to work with if it does happen).
             | 
             | Out of curiosity, I just texted my friend to get another
             | sample from him and he said it happened to him one time,
             | but also admitted his kids might have been to blame.
             | 
             | So when people claim that every other set they buy has
             | missing pieces, I always feel like I am either the luckiest
             | person to ever live, or maybe the pieces are there and
             | certain people are just more likely to misplace or lose
             | them in the building process.
        
               | robinson-wall wrote:
               | Perhaps set size is a contributing factor? I've bought
               | two sets over the last few years, and both of them have
               | had a piece missing. One was 1969 pieces (no prizes for
               | guessing which set that is!) and the other 1222 pieces.
               | 
               | Both occasions the pieces weren't structurally important,
               | and were small decorative elements.
        
               | andruby wrote:
               | The Saturn V was a fun build :)
        
               | bleepblop wrote:
               | I don't have children and I do all sorts of kits besides
               | lego; with even smaller pieces. Either I have bad luck or
               | I am careless. But you'd think with multiple decades
               | under my belt I'd eventually find the "missing" pieces.
               | When it's like a 4x12 left wing, or a 2x1 it starts to
               | get suss.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | The only time I ever had a large piece like that missing,
               | it was pretty clear (on afterthought) that the box had
               | been opened in the store before I bought it.
               | 
               | And I've had to return a set or two to Amazon because
               | they'd clearly been opened and returned (and usually all
               | the minifigs stripped out).
        
               | bleepblop wrote:
               | Understandable. I am pretty selective when it comes to a
               | kit. Dare I say autistic? Box condition is a
               | consideration, along with down to how I open them. It's
               | noticeable.
        
               | thomastjeffery wrote:
               | I bet it's more likely that a given Lego set that is
               | missing pieces was produced, packaged, shipped, and sold,
               | nearby other piece-missing sets.
               | 
               | In other words, I would not expect the distribution of
               | Lego sets that are missing pieces to be evenly or
               | randomly distributed.
        
             | andruby wrote:
             | Same. I keep pictures of each box I get for the family.
             | About 130 now in the last 10 years. Zero missing pieces.
        
             | skipkey wrote:
             | For me, 100 percent of the sets with over a thousand pieces
             | have been missing at least one, during the pandemic. Now
             | that's only 4 sets, admittedly.
             | 
             | The smaller sets have all been fine, tho.
        
             | runamok wrote:
             | I wonder how many pets/kids they have because my experience
             | mirrors yours. No missing parts over maybe 15 sets (between
             | my wife and I).
        
           | thatguy0900 wrote:
           | It's kind of funny, I got into buying random Lego knockoffs
           | from alibaba, and they get around not missing pieces by
           | putting a totally random amount of extra pieces in instead. I
           | can usually make a small random person or statue with the
           | random pieces left over from the actual model.
        
           | Swizec wrote:
           | > I have a hard time believing it's nothing more than a cost
           | cutting measure.
           | 
           | It's a "keep bricks interchangeable" measure. Every LEGO set
           | designer gets a budget of a few new piece suggestions per
           | year. This includes color and paint schemes.
           | 
           | From a Verge article on how a new set happens:
           | https://www.theverge.com/c/23991049/lego-ideas-polaroid-
           | ones...
           | 
           | > And those teams came up with one simple idea to stem the
           | tide of complexity: "frames."
           | 
           | > Want a part in a different color? That costs designers a
           | frame. A new piece? Spend some frames. Bring back an old out-
           | of-print piece? That's a frame, too. Every year, design leads
           | like Scott are given a limited number of frames that they can
           | spend on their entire portfolio for physical pieces that
           | aren't readily at hand. "If I have five products or 10
           | products coming out, I need to allocate where those frames
           | go," says Scott.
        
           | the_mitsuhiko wrote:
           | > How many stickers are in the kit? And honestly it's too
           | damn high.
           | 
           | I know I'm going against the grain here, but I love stickers.
           | Many of the sets my kids got were "sticker infested" but as
           | they only re-bricked it, we just did not put the stickers on
           | some of them and got just more fun out of it.
           | 
           | > Within the past 10 years I have had at least 7 kits missing
           | pieces. And the frequency keeps growing
           | 
           | I never had it. Also if you do, Lego will send you any piece
           | (that is not a minifig) no questions asked. My kid threw my
           | glob down and one of the parts got a bad indentation and
           | looked ugly. I got a replacement part in the mail no
           | questions asked.
        
             | bleepblop wrote:
             | I am fully aware of the customer service side of lego.
             | That's why I still use their stuff. But I suppose that is
             | where our agreement will lie. Knowing what they are capable
             | of and where they are now is noticeable.
        
               | the_mitsuhiko wrote:
               | I don't know. It very much depends on what you are into.
               | I feel like a lot of the stuff that Lego does got way
               | better in recent years. For instance the manuals in the
               | app are a step above and beyond of where they were, and
               | the build together element means that my kids are playing
               | together and rebuilding old sets.
        
               | bleepblop wrote:
               | I am totally on the same page with you. It definitely
               | boils down to what are you doing. There are a ton of cool
               | pieces these days that would've been a pipe dream when we
               | were kids. And lego's MO has always been imagination and
               | creativity. I feel like the addition of stickers in
               | essence sort of rules out the variable, but forces the
               | builder to use it if they are following the kit by the
               | book. Where as with a printed brick the person gets to
               | choose whether they use it or not.
               | 
               | It's really splitting hairs at that point, but
               | ascetically speaking it doesn't fit their ethos.
        
             | poulsbohemian wrote:
             | I can't help but think back to my childhood in the 1980s...
             | there were always stickers included. In the Lego idea books
             | they always showed those same stickers in use, making the
             | association and relevance clear. So how many is too many? I
             | mean, I'd say the more the merrier if that gives the set
             | another dimension of play.
        
           | mtillman wrote:
           | I was stoked to find the new Eldorado fortress to be an
           | improvement on the original and free from stickers. I got
           | plenty of extra pieces too.
        
           | mc32 wrote:
           | In my experience they tend to add extras for the smallest
           | pieces and have never missed a piece.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I just wish the stickers were high quality plastic ones, so
           | you'd have a chance in hell of removing and replacing them
           | immediately if you mess up.
           | 
           | I've never had a confirmed piece missing (the few cases had
           | obvious open boxes, etc), but then again I've not bought as
           | many in the last ten years.
        
         | AtlasBarfed wrote:
         | Yeah, but Lego inflates its part counts with lots of smaller
         | pieces now.
         | 
         | The licensed sets are also a big hit. The best sets Lego makes
         | are the creator ones, some of them I've bought multiple of so
         | my kid could have the alt builds at the same time.
        
       | aidenn0 wrote:
       | Be interesting to see median or quartiles instead of just
       | average; licensed sets probably skew the average up.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | I'd like to see it per pound. I suspect (based on my feelings)
         | that licensing is less per set than you might think, and that
         | the price per pound has been trending up as piece size trends
         | down.
        
           | NickNameNick wrote:
           | I'd expect 2 small pieces to weigh more than 1 big one.
           | 
           | So I'd expect you to see the weight go up faster than the
           | part count.
           | 
           | Not sure if that would confound or exagerate the trend.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | They're not replacing a 1x4 with 2 1x2s, they're just
             | designing sets with more pieces per pound (by having
             | smaller pieces for decoration).
        
       | bena wrote:
       | Another factor is that Lego is using more greebling than in the
       | past. So you have more "parts", but they're all small pieces used
       | for detailing rather than larger structural components of the
       | build.
        
         | yalok wrote:
         | exactly, that's been my concern as well - more and more parts
         | now are very specialized and hard to reuse in other projects.
         | 
         | Makes me sad for the kids - this limits creativity...
        
           | Jean-Philipe wrote:
           | Well, yes and no. Look at the Ninjago City sets where the
           | designers have used special parts in very creative ways!
           | 
           | Otherwise, I too prefer sets without special parts. The
           | Minecraft and Creator series are excellent for that.
        
           | chomp wrote:
           | There's actually less specialized parts these days, that's
           | what put Lego in trouble in the 90s, I think what GP
           | commenter was referring to is a ton of the studs and
           | cylinders and 1x1 diagonal parts that Lego includes, that are
           | "fluff". These parts are extremely cheap to produce, so you
           | may have data that looks like price per part is flat, but in
           | reality that's because more of your sets are now from cheaper
           | detailing parts.
        
             | jerrysievert wrote:
             | having collected through the 90's, I can attest that there
             | are a lot less specialty parts now, but in recent sets that
             | number appears to be growing again. almost every fairly
             | large set I've purchased in the last 2 years have had 10-12
             | new-to-me parts in it, and the other sets continue to
             | include those same parts as well.
             | 
             | mostly, they've been pieces to make some change for SNOT,
             | but there seem to be so many of them now that it feels like
             | we're going back to that 90's mentality.
             | 
             | some of those sets:                   * batman shadow box
             | (with my first ever missing piece!)         * dune
             | ornithopter (great build)         * loop rollercoaster (not
             | counting those loop tracks)         * orient express (my
             | least favorite build in the last few years)
        
           | gmueckl wrote:
           | I'd say yes and no. I find very few parts that are custom
           | shapes for a single set these days. Most part shapes are very
           | generic, but there is an absolutely wild variety of them now.
           | There is an enormous number of SNOT, tile and slope pieces,
           | for example. These can make slick looking builds, but getting
           | a decent and useful collection of those for MOCs is hard.
           | 
           | Where Lego gets tricky is the combination of shape and color:
           | the color palette has been growing over the years, too, but
           | most of the weirder shapes are only available in specific
           | colors and not always the colors you would intuitively expect
           | them to have. I guess it happens because
           | manufacturing/stockpiling the whole outer product of shape x
           | color is just infeasible at this point. So the available
           | colors are just whatever is used in the current sets, however
           | weird it may seem.
        
           | paulddraper wrote:
           | So buy Lego Classic.
           | 
           | They're not like 80s-era simplicity, but they definitely
           | reuse peices.
           | 
           | They're not rare; they're on every shelf. (But they're not
           | Harry Potter, Star Wars, etc.)
        
       | SushiHippie wrote:
       | Would also be interesting to see how zhe PPP changes with the
       | amount of pieces in a set. i.e. if small sets with a tiny piece
       | count have a higher PPP than larger sets with hundreds of pieces.
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | At a rough glance, that does appear to be the case.
        
       | hermitcrab wrote:
       | Top tip. Buy used Lego cheap from ebay (or similar) and stick it
       | in the dishwasher in a string bag. Try to avoid Lego from
       | smoker's house or that has been heavily gnawed. And keep the
       | dishwasher heat low, unless you want Salvador Dali Lego.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Hotter tip - if you live near a Goodwill auction site, you can
         | pickup "in store" and so you can bid for their bulk Lego
         | without shipping.
        
       | boplicity wrote:
       | Lego is a plastics company; they're trying to become net-zero,
       | but, unfortunately, being a plastics company, this is extremely
       | hard:
       | 
       | https://www.ft.com/content/6cad1883-f87a-471d-9688-c1a3c5a0b...
        
         | elzbardico wrote:
         | Why? As long as people don't burn the bricks....
        
           | donkeyboy wrote:
           | Plastic is made from upstream oil and gas companies. Kind of
           | hard to be net-zero in that sector
        
           | boplicity wrote:
           | The _creation_ of plastic products causes significant
           | emissions, which is something that I don 't think it widely
           | understood.
        
         | magnetowasright wrote:
         | ft link:
         | https://archive.is/20230924232054/https://www.ft.com/content...
        
         | magnetowasright wrote:
         | > The world's largest toymaker announced two years ago that it
         | had tested a prototype brick made of recycled plastic bottles
         | rather than oil-based ABS, currently used in about 80 per cent
         | of the billions of pieces it makes each year. However, Niels
         | Christiansen, chief executive of the family-owned Danish group,
         | told the Financial Times that using recycled polyethylene
         | terephthalate (RPET) would have led to higher carbon emissions
         | over the product's lifetime as it would have required new
         | equipment.
         | 
         | I just thought that particular issue around new equipment was
         | interesting.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Don't kids want 3d-printers these days?
        
         | Arrath wrote:
         | Sure, but if they're anything like my friend's kid they're not
         | really computer-savvy, just reasonably proficient at driving
         | apps. Thus, when he plugged in his 3d printer and was
         | confronted with some driver or configuration problems he threw
         | his hands up, said it was junk, and went back to roblox.
         | 
         | Trying not to sound too much like a 'kids these days!' rant,
         | but that is what happened (yes, in this one anecdotal case). I
         | think we're doing everyone a disservice by abstracting away all
         | the underlying layers to the point that people don't have to
         | interact with the filesystem, but that's a whole different
         | subject.
        
       | gmueckl wrote:
       | One thing that is not captured accurately in a simple price over
       | parts count computation is the fact that parts complexity is
       | wildly different between shapes. There's a huge difference
       | between a 1x1 plate and a Technic baseplate with holes pointing
       | in every direction, to pick extreme examples.
       | 
       | I believe that even factoring in the extra handling costs and
       | margins, the prices on Pick a Brick give a decent approximation
       | of the actual price span (<$0.10 to >$2.00 per piece).
        
       | sxp wrote:
       | Is it just me or does the data aspect of the site feel horribly
       | designed? E.g, the main graph is hard to read since most of the
       | data points are in the $0.10/part range but the graph's y-axis is
       | overwhelmed by the right side with it's $3.11/part train set. And
       | if I click on that, https://brickinsights.com/sets/categories/26
       | shows 4 data points and it's overwhelmed by a single outlier from
       | 1991. And the time-sequence chart near the bottom uses a line
       | graph rather than a scatterplot which overwhelms the useful data.
       | 
       | A better graph would be a time-sequence scatterplot of price/part
       | on a log scale like
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/5oanki/leg...
        
       | ryukoposting wrote:
       | I made a script last year that scraped LEGO pricing data from
       | their website. Besides finding out that the Bugatti Bolide
       | Technic set is a pretty good deal as a parts bag, I found that
       | there's only a weak correlation between set size and PPP. The
       | Dots sets throw a wrench in things, of course, and large Technic
       | sets often have expensive electronic and pneumatic parts that
       | must be considered.
       | 
       | My conclusion was that PPP is useful as a bargain-hunting tool,
       | but not as a model for broad price analysis.
       | 
       | Here's that for anyone interested:
       | 
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/lego/comments/1328f52/detailed_lego...
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Just like the article, you really have to correct for outliers
         | to make PPP work. It's more of a "rule of thumb" that you can
         | use to determine if something is, as you said, a bargain worth
         | getting even if it is outside your main area.
         | 
         | Bricklink's "part out" tool is more accurate, but some pieces
         | get priced "wrong" and you have to know enough to determine
         | that.
        
       | deadbabe wrote:
       | Someone should figure out how to quantify how "creative
       | potential" a piece has so you can measure how reusable pieces in
       | a set will be for building unique things.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | I suspect you could do something quick and dirty with
         | "connectors" - a 1x1 brick would have two connectors, a 2x4
         | brick would have 16.
         | 
         | Apply some form of modulo by piece count (8 1x1 bricks are more
         | "creative" than a single 2x4) and you'd be close.
        
       | fuzzy_biscuit wrote:
       | I love the idea, but the year axis starting so early makes the
       | days more difficult to read, esp. on mobile.
        
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