[HN Gopher] Show HN: Causal 2.0 - Modern Financial Planning for ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: Causal 2.0 - Modern Financial Planning for Startups
        
       Author : refrigerator
       Score  : 187 points
       Date   : 2024-03-19 14:06 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (causal.app)
 (TXT) w3m dump (causal.app)
        
       | skadamat wrote:
       | I've been following Taimur's work for many years and it's neat to
       | see Causal evolve their messaging.
       | 
       | Overall, it's cool to see lots of startups creating the next
       | generation of spreadsheets:
       | 
       | - Causal.app
       | 
       | - Rows.com
       | 
       | - Equals.com
       | 
       | - Rowzero.io
       | 
       | - and at least 50 others I've found
        
         | refrigerator wrote:
         | Thanks man! Messaging has been a long journey and I still think
         | we're very far from cracking it haha
        
       | dark_ph0enix wrote:
       | We've had a number of very interesting technical challenges along
       | the way to this 2.0 release:
       | 
       | - traffic tiering and balancing based on request's perceived
       | amount of work
       | 
       | - low latency data loading during our calc loop
       | 
       | - implementing a selector framework to unify all the stores used
       | by the application
       | 
       | - redesigning the formula editor to make human friendly yet
       | expressive enough for the most hardcore user (fun UX challenge)
       | 
       | We really ought to start blogging more about these things :D.
        
         | swyx wrote:
         | please do! spin up an engineering blog on hashnode.
         | https://danluu.com/corp-eng-blogs/
        
       | refrigerator wrote:
       | Hi everyone, I'm one of the Causal founders -- we actually
       | launched a super barebones MVP here on HN in 2019[1], back when
       | we were still tinkering around on nights and weekends, and the
       | reception + signups from that gave us the confidence to quit our
       | jobs and go full-time on this, so thanks for the early support!
       | 
       | The product has come a long way since that first HN launch. The
       | best way to think about it is as a 'multidimensional spreadsheet'
       | -- instead of writing formulas that operate on single cells,
       | Causal formulas operate on "variables" that span lots of cells
       | (e.g. multiple 'months', or multiple 'products', or multiple
       | 'countries'), so you can express any kind of model with 100-1000x
       | fewer formulas. Lot of other important functionality like live
       | data integrations, dashboards, etc. but the multi-dimensional
       | modelling system is really the secret sauce :)
       | 
       | Sounds super abstract, but the main use-case today is financial
       | planning/reporting for early-stage companies, although some of
       | our users have actually replaced their BI tools with Causal as
       | well.
       | 
       | Anyway, thanks for the support and keen to hear feedback :)
       | 
       | 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19704418
        
         | sksk wrote:
         | I am curious about your comment on 100-1000x fewer formulas. Is
         | there a simpler example you can show how your product will do
         | it relative to Excel? When I read your comment, I was thinking,
         | SUM in Excel operates over many cells. You can have Arrays,
         | etc. in Excel. So I am not sure how formulas work in your
         | product that is fundamentally different. Is this like a
         | function that I can define and call that function so it is
         | easier?
        
           | Lukas1994 wrote:
           | Great question! Quite often in financial models, you're
           | dealing with "dimensions" (e.g. your revenue is broken down
           | by product, geography, and time). To model this in Excel you
           | have to write complex SUMIF/INDEX/MATCH formulas. Then you
           | have to drag these formulas over 1000s of cells (if you make
           | a mistake you're screwed, see https://eusprig.org/research-
           | info/horror-stories/).
           | 
           | Causal's building blocks are "variables" and "dimensions"
           | which makes it much more powerful to work with dimensional
           | data.
           | 
           | This video explains this in a more visual way: https://www.yo
           | utube.com/watch?v=WELP2A5IzF4&ab_channel=Causa...
        
             | sksk wrote:
             | Thank you. That makes sense. I totally agree, Excel is a
             | nightmare to debug.
        
         | localhost wrote:
         | For your use case, what if you could use Python in Excel with
         | pandas, numpy and the Anaconda ecosystem readily available? How
         | would that change things?
         | 
         | Disclosure: I was a founding member of the Python in Excel team
         | and am looking for new problems that Python in Excel could
         | solve.
        
       | varadhjain wrote:
       | excited by this launch
        
       | parkaboy wrote:
       | Very excited by this and congratulations. I've been an avid
       | causal user on the free plan at the early-stage startup I work
       | for, and used it at my startup before that. It's been so great to
       | see how the product has evolved. I can't overstate what a
       | pleasure it has been to work with even when it was in its
       | earliest stages.
       | 
       | I would absolutely convert to paying if the jump to the next tier
       | weren't so expensive ($250/mo), which has been really tough to
       | digest right now.
        
         | refrigerator wrote:
         | Totally get it -- we know the $250 is too big a jump and we're
         | currently trying to figure out the mechanics of a starter plan
         | at $99/mo.
         | 
         | In the meantime, we're pretty chill about offering $99 plans to
         | early stage companies if you're under 10 people, or have raised
         | under $500k.
         | 
         | You can find the form for that on our pricing page under
         | "Startup programme": https://causal.app/pricing
         | 
         | Hope that helps, and thanks for the kind words and loyal
         | support!
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | Same pricing for a non profit by chance?
        
       | martykausas wrote:
       | this is pretty great
        
       | loremchecksum wrote:
       | Looks great!
       | 
       | I work in enterprise planning and wonder what is keeping you from
       | targeting larger firms. Is the startup-target temporary or do you
       | expect to let your clients "scale out" of the product?
        
         | refrigerator wrote:
         | We do actually have a bunch of bigger companies using Causal
         | (incl. public companies) so it definitely works for bigger
         | companies depending on exactly what they need. If they're
         | looking for a great modelling tool with nice dashboards then I
         | think we're perfect, if they're looking for something with more
         | "workflows" type of stuff with lots of stakeholders who need to
         | contribute to things, then we're less good.
         | 
         | Because of this, we're focusing on smaller companies as a self-
         | serve product for a while, and then gradually plan to build out
         | that kind of enterprise stuff for bigger companies.
         | 
         | There's also a lot more competition in the mid-
         | market/enterprise in this space, and 0 competition for
         | SMBs/self-serve, so we thought it would be good to lean in
         | there :)
        
         | ig1 wrote:
         | If you're looking for something more enterprise focused then
         | https://www.pigment.com/ might be a good fit
        
       | slinkypinky wrote:
       | Couple questions:
       | 
       | 1. Where does the name come from?
       | 
       | 2. I've seen a lot of startups with the business model of serving
       | other startups. These remind me a lot of derivatives in the stock
       | market in terms of the "risk" of their business model, and there
       | have been instances of companies having to pivot when the economy
       | goes down (i.e. Brex)... Do you have a contingency plan for this?
        
         | refrigerator wrote:
         | 1. It comes from the concept of 'causal inference' in
         | statistics[1] -- when we started out, we though the product
         | would go in a much technical/statistical direction, but we were
         | very wrong about that But 'causal' as a word is still relevant
         | to modelling, etc.
         | 
         | 2. Fair question haha. While a majority of our customers are
         | startups/tech cos, a bunch of our customers are also non-tech
         | small businesses (e.g. small agencies/consulting firms in
         | various niches). Interestingly, we found that after the economy
         | went down 18 months ago there seemed to be more demand for
         | Causal from smaller companies (startups + regular SMBs) -- our
         | guess is that staying on top of finances is important when
         | things are tough, and less important when there's tonnes of
         | cash flying around!
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_inference
        
           | slinkypinky wrote:
           | Interesting, thanks. I'm pretty familiar with causal
           | inference, so I'm curious -- what direction did you think the
           | product would head in?
        
       | seels wrote:
       | Congrats, Causal! I'm a fan and excited to see the 2.0 launch. A
       | big part of our financial planning comes from manual syncing data
       | from the tools we use for billing, expenses, and so on into our
       | excel model -- definitely going to try this out.
        
         | refrigerator wrote:
         | Ah nice, definitely sounds like something Causal can handle for
         | you :)
        
       | bryanmgreen wrote:
       | One thing I have to really congratulate you on is your product
       | video.
       | 
       | I honestly think it's one of the best I've seen for any software.
       | It showcases the functionality, displays the actual UI, doesn't
       | rely on narration, is visually interesting, and succinct.
       | 
       | Was it made internally or with an agency?
        
         | refrigerator wrote:
         | Ahh thanks, glad you liked it! We made it internally with the
         | help of a video editor.
        
           | killion wrote:
           | This does look really good. Do you mind if I ask which one
           | you used? Thanks!
        
             | refrigerator wrote:
             | Feel free to drop me an email (taimur [at] causal [dot]
             | app) and I'd be happy to introduce you to him :)
        
         | zuhayeer wrote:
         | The soundtrack actually goes so hard. Love it.
        
         | pedalpete wrote:
         | Along with an excellent use of music and pacing. Though it
         | doesn't answer the "is this product for me" question, it does
         | build excitement to make me want to learn more.
        
       | habitue wrote:
       | Do you offer monte carlo simulations for forecasting?
        
         | refrigerator wrote:
         | Yes! Causal natively supports Monte Carlo simulation. E.g.
         | instead of writing "7.5%" in a cell, you can write "5% to 10%"
         | and it will turn that into a distribution, and automatically
         | run a few thousand samples with different values every time it
         | re-calculates.
         | 
         | Docs: https://docs.causal.app/formulas/values-with-uncertainty
        
           | habitue wrote:
           | That's amazing
        
           | ttul wrote:
           | This alone makes me want to try Causal. I run my business
           | with a gargantuan Google Sheet. It works - we nail our
           | numbers. But scenario testing is very hard.
        
             | refrigerator wrote:
             | Nice -- definitely try Causal out! We have a 'scenarios'
             | feature that lets you easily spin up "discrete" scenarios,
             | and then you can use the Monte Carlo stuff to see
             | continuous ranges of outcomes.
        
       | jtwaleson wrote:
       | First thing I noticed is that the UI looks exactly like Linear.
       | Have seen more companies copy the same UI but not sure if it was
       | actually Linear that started it.
        
         | refrigerator wrote:
         | Haha, I think the evolution was something like this:
         | 
         | 1. Slack introduces "sidebar" concept
         | 
         | 2. Notion takes it a step further
         | 
         | 3. Everyone starts doing sidebars, including Linear
         | 
         | We took inspiration from Linear's 'search button in sidebar'
         | and 'profile pic in sidebar', which I think were maybe their
         | unique contributions to the tradition :)
        
           | deathanatos wrote:
           | Really, it's just a tab strip, no? (But with fixed
           | heterogeneous tabs, as opposed to a set of homogeneous ones
           | the user adds/removes from as they open/close docs.)
           | 
           | Reminds me of the vertical tab strips in FF w/ TreeStyleTabs.
           | 
           | Which reminds me of OS/2, where tab strips were on the side,
           | with some nice skeuomorphism: https://www.landley.net/history
           | /mirror/os2/history/os221/vxr...
        
       | monkeydust wrote:
       | Looks interesting, any similarities to CausalLens product?
        
         | refrigerator wrote:
         | No similarities at all, just the name
        
       | thecharleskerr wrote:
       | This is pretty epic, have been testing it for a few weeks - top
       | work!
        
       | 1oooqooq wrote:
       | WOW! congrats! it's been ages I didn't see anyone actually manage
       | to make a website that doesn't work with the non-dominant
       | browser!
       | 
       | I cannot even login using firefox.
        
       | durmanhoth wrote:
       | There seem to be some synergies that you can leverage with spend
       | management and expense management platforms (such as Brex, Ramp,
       | etc.). Is this a fair assumption, and if so, have you considered
       | exploring any opportunities in this area?
       | 
       | Interesting stuff!
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-03-19 23:00 UTC)