[HN Gopher] How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2...
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How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)
Author : bronzekaiser
Score : 85 points
Date : 2024-03-18 14:24 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.truetex.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.truetex.com)
| superkuh wrote:
| What an incredible web page design. It loads and paints instantly
| on any browser in existence and reflows faster than any site I've
| seen. The content is front and center and there's a ton of it.
| This is what peak website performance looks like.
| martinky24 wrote:
| Yeah but how will I get ~customized ads~ served to me? What if
| big-ad-tech doesn't know I'm tangentially interested in garage
| door opener content??
| abracadaniel wrote:
| You will miss out on having your YouTube feed filled with
| garage door videos for the next 3 years as well.
| gear54rus wrote:
| randomly changing content width and slapping random tables
| where they don't belong doesn't do it for me, sorry
| xnx wrote:
| Still too much design. The centering is unnecessary.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Ha ha, and the compression artifacts on the images: how you
| know it's gonna load fast.
| suddenclarity wrote:
| Not sure if satire. It's a terrible user experience for me. For
| future readers:
|
| https://motherfuckingwebsite.com
|
| http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com
|
| https://perfectmotherfuckingwebsite.com
| wackget wrote:
| Is there something I'm missing? A quick search of YouTube reveals
| tons of garage door spring replacement videos. It doesn't seem
| like the knowledge or parts are difficult to obtain.
| TheGRS wrote:
| Its widely known as one of the most dangerous DIYs you can do.
| I think typically people working on them will get pushed off
| their ladder suddenly from the tension in the spring releasing.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I worry more about a steel bar being thrown out with ample
| centrifugal force or coming around and taking a whack at your
| jaw.
| derekp7 wrote:
| Happened in my family a number of years ago. The instructions
| said to crank the spring 7 1/4 turns. So it was really make a
| 1/4 turn, repeat 7 times. Not 7 full turns plus 1/4
| additional.
|
| After pulling the vice grips off, the door shot up with such
| force that it knocked the ladder over, causing a broken
| collar bone in the process.
| jollyllama wrote:
| I tried and failed to repair before, but didn't get
| injured. I had to take great care with the vice grips and
| other implements I was using; my intuition was they could
| become missiles.
| 8organicbits wrote:
| > If you've researched this subject at all, you will no doubt
| have heard that you shouldn't be attempting torsion spring
| replacement as a do-it-yourselfer.
| bluGill wrote:
| There are several different springs, some are more dangerious
| than others. It isn't hard to safely replace any spring.
| However it isn't always obvious what is safe or unsafe and
| mistakes can kill.
| glasss wrote:
| Probably the year this was published, the blog said the first
| version was in posted in 2002
| mhuffman wrote:
| I suspect that a lot or all of those videos are about
| "extension spring" replacements and not "torsion spring"
| replacements. Probably shouldn't do either, but the torsion
| ones can have instant and catastrophic failure modes during
| installation or removal.
| levocardia wrote:
| I had a teacher in high school who was blinded (I think only in
| one eye) trying to do this repair. You could not pay me enough
| money to do this repair.
|
| >This work is risky, but the risk is comparable to doing your own
| car repairs, or climbing on the roof of your house to clean your
| gutters.
|
| Notably, "unintentional fall" is the #1 cause of emergency
| department visits for adults [1], which is why I'd hire a
| professional to work on my roof too (and wince when they don't
| wear safety equipment). I'm not sure where "crushed by your own
| car" falls on the list, but while I'm perfectly comfortable
| digging around in the engine bay, you also could not pay me
| enough to crawl around under a poorly jacked-up car.
|
| 1. https://wisqars.cdc.gov/lcnf/
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Yeah, I'm a DIY'er and I noped-out of this one too.
| linsomniac wrote:
| Ditto, but after he charged me $550 it and used bars rather
| than a worm-drive "winder", I'm thinking that next time I'm
| going to either get a winder and do it myself (parts were sub
| $100) or at least get 3 quotes. I went with someone a friend
| liked, so I didn't do any shopping around, mea culpa. But, I
| guess he had to pay for his brand new F-250 somehow. :-)
|
| I was half expecting him to say I needed other maintenance
| including new rollers, at which point I was going to call BS,
| because I replaced those rollers a couple three years ago and
| I'm about a million uses away from their rated million
| open/closes. Double sealed ball bearings, ask for them by
| name.
| the__alchemist wrote:
| Thank you. I agree on all examples. Absolutely not worth the
| risk. Not even close. I wince thinking about when I changed my
| own oil in my 20s... Potentially throwing away so many good
| years, for so little gain. The car danger can be mitigated if
| the work is done under a professional lift.
| cityofdelusion wrote:
| There is pretty much zero risk if the car is either jacked
| correctly or put on ramps correctly. Dummies that rely on a
| single 1.5mm o-ring not blowing out on their hydraulic floor
| jacks are gambling with their life. Always operate on flat
| terrain, always chock the wheels, always use the parking
| brake, always use jack stands, always verify no movement in
| the vehicle by rocking it, never rely on the floor jack.
| rpmisms wrote:
| Ramps are very good. I don't know why anyone would use a
| jack for an oil change...
| jtriangle wrote:
| A jack is basically suicide tbh. Jackstands are fine,
| provided they're used correctly.
|
| Ramps are nice, provided you don't need to take a wheel
| off, then you're using jackstands anyway, so, if you're
| buying one or the other, jackstands are a good option.
|
| Personally, if you have the space for it, a trench is the
| best option, I had one previously and I miss it alot.
| Nothing leaves the ground, car just pulls in and is ready
| to go. Mine was like 2ft deep, so, maybe a little
| cramped, but very comfortable once you're in there
| working. You couldn't make a standable trench at home
| without engineering it anyway, so, a crawlable trench is
| really the way to go.
| the__alchemist wrote:
| IMO a trench mitigates the danger effectively.
| darkr wrote:
| Until you fall into it when you're not paying attention!
| Arrath wrote:
| Make sure it is shored correctly!
| darkr wrote:
| Another option, if you've got the ceiling height is a
| proper 4 post lift. Expensive, but you can justify it by
| doubling your car storage space.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Depends on the jack. The people I know that do this use a
| jack and jack stands rather than just a jack. The jack is
| just the tool to go up/down.
| the__alchemist wrote:
| Valid, re ramps > jack stands > floor jack. I always used
| ramps, but still... won't do it again. I'll change plugs +
| coils etc because you don't need to get under the car.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I'll also put tires (on rims) underneath in addition to
| jack stands/ramps.
| giantg2 wrote:
| "Potentially throwing away so many good years, for so little
| gain. The car danger can be mitigated if the work is done
| under a professional lift."
|
| I use ramps I built - solid 2x12. Those are extremely safe as
| there's nothing that can break, bend, or disintegrate. It's
| way more dangerous to drive than to work on the vehicle.
| YeBanKo wrote:
| > Potentially throwing away so many good years
|
| How much time did you spend changing oil?? It's a 20-30 min
| job once you have done it coupe of time and know the ropes. I
| sometimes do it myself not because I want to save few bucks,
| but because it's sometimes faster than going somewhere.
| dylan604 wrote:
| I'm assuming you're leaving out the time it takes to drive
| somewhere to dispose of the used oil and driving back. I
| grew up in the boonies, and my dad was one to dispose of
| oil "out back". It was such a shock the day he brought home
| a proper catch can to have it disposed of properly
| YeBanKo wrote:
| Pretty much any big chain auto parts shop accepts used
| oil. With a proper catch can you still have to bring in
| for disposal.
| sokoloff wrote:
| I read that as "I risked 50+ remaining years of my life (or
| serious life-changing injury) with low-probability" not "it
| took me so many wasted hours with probability 1.0"
| sokoloff wrote:
| I do my oil changes top-side now, using an air-powered
| Mityvac (MV7300, no affiliation).
|
| That's the factory-recommended procedure for several brands
| now and works well on my Mercedes and Honda. I was skeptical
| at first, but did the extraction and then removed the drain
| plug and the oil I got from the bottom wouldn't have half-
| filled a shot glass, so that's good enough for me.
|
| As long as the filter is accessible from the top or side, I
| don't see the need to jack up most wet-sump cars (which is
| almost all of them).
| cnasc wrote:
| Recently got one of these myself. Didn't even get my hands
| dirty doing the change, wish I knew about fluid extractors
| years ago (though not all of my cars have had filters so
| easily accessible)
| supportengineer wrote:
| I started changing my own oil when I was 16. We only used
| ramps, never jacks.
| giantg2 wrote:
| "Notably, "unintentional fall" is the #1 cause of emergency
| department visits for adults"
|
| Most of these are not from DIY, but age realted
| sbelskie wrote:
| How is it age related if it is the number one cause for all
| ages? Am I misreading the chart?
| mbreese wrote:
| Look at the spread from #1 to #2. At young ages, the
| difference is pretty high, suggesting that young kids
| falling from things is common. In the middle age ranges, #1
| and #2 are pretty close, suggesting that falling isn't that
| different (from a statistical frequency POV) from the #2
| option.
|
| But then look at the split at the older age groups. Falling
| is by and far the biggest cause. By a ton. Starting at 45,
| the split just keeps growing. And these numbers are higher
| in general than any other age group, so they skew the "all
| ages" numbers by a lot.
|
| So, while it is a major cause for all age groups, the
| effect size is very age related.
| csande17 wrote:
| I would suspect that "unintentional fall" also covers
| falling _over_ (like, the kind of fall that would happen
| if you tripped over a garden hose), not just falling
| _off_ something. The former is the most common cause of
| emergency visits among the older people I know.
| mbreese wrote:
| I figured for all ages it would also encompass falling
| off something. A chair, bed, etc... one type is more
| predominant for the younger ages (falling from
| something), the other is likely more predominant for the
| older ages (falling down, tripping, stairs, etc).
| nighthawk454 wrote:
| meaning elderly people falling due to mobility/balance
| issues vs some guy falling off his roof
| michaelt wrote:
| Among the workplace population, if you look at fatal
| workplace accidents [1] you'll find that falls are the
| second-most-common cause of death (deaths on the road are the
| most common)
|
| Construction workers have the second-highest number of
| workplace deaths (transportation workers are the highest) and
| among construction workers, falls are the most common cause
| of death.
|
| Transport and construction are second and third in fatalities
| _per worker-hour_ , with 'farming, fishing and forestry' the
| most dangerous per worker-hour.
|
| So ladders aren't the most dangerous thing out there - but
| falls are pretty near the top of the list when it comes to
| workplace deaths.
|
| That's not to say people can't use ladders safely - just if
| you're hauling a heavy ass drill up a ladder and it's
| stopping you using both hands, the cable's flapping around
| your legs, your pockets are full of sharp pointy tools, and
| it's raining - maybe think twice :)
|
| [1] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf
| cj wrote:
| My father is a handyman for multiple large apartment buildings.
|
| Climbing onto a roof and changing garage springs are 2 things
| he says he'll _never_ do. I was surprised how specific he was
| about it.
|
| He knows lots of other handymen so I'm guessing he has heard
| lots of horror stories. Garage springs are no joke.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| > you also could not pay me enough to crawl around under a
| poorly jacked-up car.
|
| Indeed, but it's not difficult to set yourself up with multiple
| failsafes.
|
| By the time I'm set up to get underneath a car, I'm in a safer
| situation than driving the car given how many things would have
| to go wrong for the car to fall on me.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| Right? One of my garage door lifting cables broke, and although
| I knew how to replace it, the $150 or so that it cost to have
| an actual professional fix it was money well spent.
|
| I've done car repairs for decades, and climbed up on roofs when
| I had to, but I'm not dicking around with garage door springs.
| grepfru_it wrote:
| It's not that it's a hard job, the labor cost comes in at
| around $100-$150/hr as you said. It takes about an hour to
| do.. But why am I going to do this when my time could be
| better spent elsewhere?
|
| Saving $1000 tiling your shower? That makes sense. Saving
| $100 and potentially maim yourself in the process? Hello
| garage door repairman.
| nullhole wrote:
| I knew someone in high school who had started work at an auto
| repair place, and he described the process - and danger - of
| replacing car springs to me once.
|
| I'm sure there are various types of car spring, the kind he was
| talking about was the stereotypical coil-of-metal spring.
| There's so much energy in there that a small slip up can be
| deadly.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| It used to be worse. Lots of cars today use a coil-over-strut
| design that captures the spring. There's still a lot of
| energy, but it's much easier to manage safely, by the time
| the nut at the top runs out of threads there's generally
| little to no force left in the spring.
|
| Way back (like... 30 years ago) when I was working on my
| Mustang, the spring was separate from the strut. You had to
| drop the control arm enough to unload it and remove it, and
| there wasn't anything to contain it. I always tied it with a
| chain or a seat belt, and tried to not be directly in front
| of it during the unloading process. I knew a kid who got hit
| in the chest by a spring popping out; he did not make it.
| Removing it or installing a new one were both quite dangerous
| for the careless.
| willcipriano wrote:
| Looks like you have to use a bolt to deload, replace and then
| load a spring. With the risk being you overload it and it snaps
| in your face?
|
| A chainsaw is scarier to me.
| lttlrck wrote:
| When my spring broke I called a someone local (maybe via Yelp),
| he came out within 30 minutes, replaced it in 20 and charged me
| $75. This was only a couple of years ago.
|
| Likewise with brake fluid changes. I can do it, but the
| risk/hassle just ain't worth it for the cost of a pro.
| amluto wrote:
| I don't understand why it's even considered safe to have one of
| these springs in one's garage without a solid shield of some
| sort. While the energy involved is small on the scale of energy
| storage devices (<1 kJ or about 1 Wh if you believe the
| article), the speed at which it can release makes it quite
| dangerous. Your cell phone has a bigger battery than this! But
| your cell phone battery can't discharge in a couple
| milliseconds.
|
| Which brings to mind some rather different designs. A rather
| small motor with a lot of mechanical advantage can easily open
| a close a garage door, and if a DC or low voltage AC motor is
| used, it could do so quite a few times even if the power goes
| out.
|
| You can even buy off-the-shelf springless garage door systems!
|
| (I'm honestly not sure why springs are common at all in this
| application. IIRC I grew up with a garage door driven via a
| motor with a worm gear that engaged with a long threaded shaft,
| and there were nonetheless a pair of springs. Surely the added
| cost of a better motor and some upgraded mounting hardware for
| the motor box would have been less than the cost of those
| springs, especially installed. Maybe these designs are all
| essentially unchanged from decades ago when a ~100W (shaft)
| motor that could operate at a controlled speed even under
| negative load would have been exotic and expensive?)
| tmaly wrote:
| I have had to replace mine before.
|
| I was sitting in the family room. Big slam sound. I go out and
| check the garage and one of the springs had broke.
|
| It is really not a big deal to switch them out.
| ianschmitz wrote:
| Oof. Just because you did it yourself does not mean it wasn't
| extremely dangerous, or that the average home owner should
| attempt it. There's an incredible amount of energy stored in
| those springs when wound up
| Knufferlbert wrote:
| That is a very weird take to me. That big slam presumably is
| the spring breaking, a lot of energy released at once in a
| rather uncontrolled fashion. The same energy will be released
| if you make a mistake installing it or the spring is faulty for
| whatever reason while you are standing right next to it.
|
| My take away is that it's to dangerous to do.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| It is absolutely a big deal.
| MarkusWandel wrote:
| I did one on the "do it with the spring relaxed and the door up"
| plan. The door isn't that heavy, you can just lift it with your
| hand to help the opener lift it up, and done. But cramped!!
| Getting the lift cable nicely wound on the lift pulley, giving it
| a bit of preload (pull) and getting it attached to the bottom of
| the door, all with the raised door in the way, and doing both
| sides, let's just say my supply of swear words was severely
| depleted by the end. But I did get it done, and no dangerous
| forces were involved.
|
| Whereas I saw a professional do it in about 5 minutes flat on the
| "wind the spring and block it and then hook everything up with
| the door down" plan. But _that_ can kill you if you do it wrong.
| WesleyJohnson wrote:
| 16' x 7' metal garage doors are like 150lbs or more. Maybe I'm
| a weak old man, but I wouldn't say that "isn't that heavy".
| MarkusWandel wrote:
| Mine is 8', uninsulated, and lifting was with the aid of the
| opener (which stalled without help, with the broken spring).
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| I do not recommend DIYing this work, but I _do_ recommend
| springing for the high cycle (20k cycles) torsion springs if
| offered by your installer (TLDR larger wire size and a few inches
| longer to optimize for longevity). They are a bit more in
| material cost, but will save you labor costs, which will only go
| up in the future. Also, depending on your living arrangement and
| situation, an unexpected spring failure can be annoying AF if you
| can 't get vehicles in and out of the structure.
| ianschmitz wrote:
| I recently had mine serviced and the spring I have is original
| (~30 years old) and looking a little old. I asked the installer
| if I should replace it and he said "no. They don't make them
| like they used to. They don't last nearly as long. Wait until
| this one gives up"
| MiguelHudnandez wrote:
| I was hoping this was going to be a new technology making these
| springs obsolete.
| shiftpgdn wrote:
| I don't entirely understand why you can't just have a motor
| move the door for newer aluminum doors. They aren't that heavy.
| jtriangle wrote:
| Because if someone needs to open the door and the power's
| out, or the motor has failed, many people won't be able to do
| it.
|
| That might be acceptable day-to-day, but, if opening the door
| is what's required to escape, say, a house fire, it's very
| much not acceptable.
| Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote:
| Should be a door or egress window in any garage.
| toast0 wrote:
| Kind of hard to get a car out the door or window. Usually
| getting a car out of a garage isn't a big deal, because
| who actually puts their car in there? But also, you don't
| need to drive your car out if your structure is on fire
| ... OTOH, you may want to drive somewhere else if your
| power is out, especially if it's out for an extended
| period of time.
| ok123456 wrote:
| They do. My gym has a garage door like this. Because of the
| lack of springs, I didn't realize it had a door opener until
| the owner went to lower it.
| birken wrote:
| Coincidentally I just had a professionally done garage door
| spring replacement today, and I asked the repairman this
| question, and here is what he said:
|
| 1. The springs lift the door from the bottom, and from each
| side, which puts less load on the door itself as compared to
| if the entire weight were being lifted from the top middle
| every time.
|
| 2. The motors can be smaller, quieter and use less power
|
| 3. In case of power failure, the door is much more functional
| and safer the less apparently weight it has.
|
| Also the springs themselves are very unlikely to be dangerous
| (as long as you don't try to replace them yourself), because
| he said they almost always break when the door is at the
| closed state, because that is when they are under the most
| tension. Therefore on the whole, the springs in practice
| offer no practical safety risk, while greatly increasing the
| safety of the door in it's normal operation while also
| reducing wear and tear on the door. They also allow people to
| have heavier types of doors if they want them.
| ajb wrote:
| The alternative is counterweights. Not exactly new, but there
| looks like there is enough space for them in this case. The
| ones in the house I grew up in were a pair of concrete
| cylinders on either side of the door, maybe 10-15 cm in radius
| and 1m in length, mounted vertically. Not sure why they're not
| more common - seemed a completely reliable system.
| derekp7 wrote:
| The door needs less counter weight as it goes up. In order
| for weights to work you either need several weights, with
| different weights bottoming out as the door rises. Or have
| the cable on a spiral pulley may work.
| ajb wrote:
| I don't think that's true of the mechanism I saw, which I
| believe was quite common, but it's 20 years since I looked
| at the mechanism.
|
| Ok I've found a video with one in:
| https://m.youtube.com/shorts/zLuJYlHBSkU
|
| The counter weight is always taking the full weight of the
| door, there's just a linkage which rotates the door on the
| way up. So, not the same as the spring ones, which follow a
| curved channel.
|
| This makes me less keen on them as in theory it's going to
| fall when it wears out, albeit with only 50% of the weight.
| Unless there's another failsafe.
| scotty79 wrote:
| Some gas piston would be cool.
| neilv wrote:
| > _This work is risky, but the risk is comparable to doing your
| own car repairs, or climbing on the roof of your house to clean
| your gutters._
|
| I wonder what the net impact of an article like this is:
|
| * How much money is saved by garage door owners?
|
| * How much money is lost by professionals?
|
| * How many people are injured/killed because this article made
| them think this was doable at acceptable risk, when they
| otherwise wouldn't have attempted it?
|
| * How many people would've attempted it anyway, and would've been
| injured, but this article helped them not to be injured?
|
| Modern bonus:
|
| * How many people are injured because a YouTube/TikTok/etc. DIY
| influencer is informed by this article, makes a YouTube video
| that muddies the information, and people are inspired by the
| influencer video to attempt it?
| linsomniac wrote:
| Nobody seems to mention keeping the springs lubed for longevity.
| What's the groups thinking on that? I keep a spray bottle of lube
| by the door and shoot it every few months, which is probably
| overkill, but it's so easy. Then just wipe off the excess and
| grime maybe yearly.
| zdragnar wrote:
| Might help with corrosion, too. My grandfather had a very old
| garage door and opener, and one day something gave and it blew
| apart. It sounded very much like a shotgun had been fired
| inside the garage.
|
| Fortunately, nobody was in or near the garage when it happened,
| but I'll remember it every time "garage door spring" comes up
| in conversation.
| ToucanLoucan wrote:
| We had a corroded one that still functioned but I finally
| buckled under the RACKET the thing made every time the door
| opened and closed and got it replaced anyway.
|
| Every single time you opened or closed it, it sounded like a
| goddamn car crash going on out front. Ugh.
| bumby wrote:
| At least according to the article, the main failure mode is
| fatiguing, so I'm not sure lube would help with that, unless
| the corrosion is really bad. Most materials have a finite
| amount of cycles in them (although I'm a bit skeptical of the
| authors 7 year estimate...it seems low to me)
| linsomniac wrote:
| Doesn't the rubbing of the coils against each other
| contribute to fatigue?
| tonetegeatinst wrote:
| So I recently helped my dad replace 2 of these springs. He is no
| engineer but used to be a firefighter and straight up told me
| "you don't respect the power of the spring....you will die" I
| don't think he ever had to respond to a call where someone died
| trying to do this....but I bet he had some local story of the
| dangers these pose growing up.
|
| TLDR treat dangerous things with respect and you vastly increase
| your odds. Be it a firearm or a chemical or a fast spinning
| lathe.....danger can be lurking anuwhere and when you recognise
| it a d stop and develop a aproach to mitigate risks.....you can
| help elimate stupid mistakes that could really cost you.
|
| TLDR its better to have annoyingly boring procedures than just
| wing it and hope it goes well.
| VincentEvans wrote:
| Reading some of the comment section here makes this veteran DIYer
| sneer. Ya'll need to "grow some" and unlearn helplessness.
|
| Pay someone else who learned the simple steps to do the simple
| work and save yourself the time for more productive activities,
| but stop congratulating yourself on "avoiding a disaster" - too
| much drama for the task at hand here.
| TheGRS wrote:
| Its not a regular thing to work on for the majority of people.
| What's the point of manning up for this particular DIY if the
| danger is high? Is it really that big of an ego hit to pay
| someone for a job once in awhile?
| happytoexplain wrote:
| I'm sorry, but this "sneering" attitude is hideous. It's OK to
| do this job yourself if you have enough experience. It's also
| OK to not do it yourself because it is, in fact, dangerous.
| It's also OK to suggest that other DIY'ers err on the side of
| caution if they aren't 100% confident.
|
| What's not OK is insisting broadly to man up and do it
| yourself, stop being helpless, etc. You could encourage an
| innocent person to severely injure themselves. It's pointless
| and irresponsible.
| dang wrote:
| " _Please don 't sneer, including at the rest of the
| community._" - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
|
| If you know more than others, that's great, but in that case
| please share some of what you know, so the rest of us can
| learn:
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
|
| Putdowns don't help anybody, and make less interesting reading.
| bitfilped wrote:
| It also only takes one mistake to severely injure yourself and
| permanently reduce your quality of life, it's worth considering
| the value you put on that when deciding these things. I like
| DIYing as well, but sometimes the risk vs reward isn't worth
| some extra money. People who get injured doing DIY work often
| have a similar attitude as yours until they make a critical
| mistake taking on something they "understand" and haven't done
| before.
| hk1337 wrote:
| > Usenet newsgroup alt.home.repair
|
| This dude is old school.
| crmd wrote:
| The author's intentionally verbose/non-linear storytelling
| technique, for example the two paragraph detour that describes
| his ladder and the ladder company's bankruptcy, and the 19
| paragraph deep dive on garage door repair business marketing,
| makes it very hard for my brain to absorb the core information I
| was looking for (the procedure to replace the springs).
|
| I know I'm kind of missing the point/creative intent of this
| essay, and I appreciate the non-linear full-of-detours style in
| other genres. For example I'm a huge fan of Norm MacDonald whose
| long, impossible-to-follow stories would often drive unaware
| audiences and talkshow hosts crazy. But for technical things I
| personally find the style super annoying and feeling like the
| author is trying to flex on how much engineering, business, and
| trivia knowledge he has in many adjacent topics.
|
| I actually get anxiety thinking about getting trapped at a bar or
| party interacting with somebody who talks like this :-)
|
| Curious how other readers feel about this, especially those who
| have the exact opposite reaction!
| hvs wrote:
| This is basically what the "early Internet" looked like that
| people often write paeans to. Lots of pages written by people
| very dedicated to a weirdly specific thing while also peppering
| it with nonsequiturs and their crazy theory about who runs the
| "real" government. It was fine, but hardly the glorious
| wonderland often portrayed. (Not that the current Internet is
| without its flaws, but if I want to learn something from
| someone it is a million times easier today than it was in the
| late-90's and early-00's.
| crmd wrote:
| Yeah, that's a good point and it makes me wonder if the
| modern web has shrunk my attention span.
|
| I used to often meet this exact type of engineer early in my
| career as an enterprise data storage consultant in the 90s
| and early 2000s. I would say the most common "character" I
| would run into at a customer site was "UNIX libertarian
| hippie guy" who would love to weave politics, especially
| about privacy, freedom of speech, government overreach, new
| world order, esoteric obsessive hobbies, etc into technical
| discussions.
|
| I feel like the typical tech worker today either has very
| different socio-political views, or keeps their politics out
| of our workplace interactions.
| ToucanLoucan wrote:
| > It was fine, but hardly the glorious wonderland often
| portrayed.
|
| Probably down to personal taste, but I would happily take a
| thousand of these websites with strange, esoteric folk
| sharing knowledge in unconventional ways than another
| subreddit that's 70% non-sequiturs by volume, or a Stack
| Exchange thread that's just the same quesiton asked 400 times
| in broken english.
| throwaway2037 wrote:
| This blog feels like something from Internet hyperspace:
| Informative, but shitty formatting / layout. I say the latter
| with genuine love -- no trolling / hate. This blog post could
| have been posted in 1994! Can we please get more of these on HN!?
| dang wrote:
| Related:
|
| _I Replaced Deadly Garage Door Torsion Springs and Lived to Tell
| the Tale_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28419196 - Sept
| 2021 (10 comments)
| adrr wrote:
| Why are we still using springs?
| anamexis wrote:
| Why not?
| adrr wrote:
| Seems like there should be something better that can last
| longer and not kill you if you try to fix it.
| riversflow wrote:
| Why does it seem like there should be something better?
| adrr wrote:
| Our garage doors openers are better. No more loud chain
| and they last longer too.
| unglaublich wrote:
| Did you even read the article?
|
| Why are we still using passive, reliable mechanisms to reduce
| the force needed to move heavy objects?
| itishappy wrote:
| Garage doors weigh from 80 to 200 lb (37 - 90 kg)[0], so you'd
| have to hang one of these from it[1]. Hmm, that doesn't sound
| too bad. Here's some smarter people than me discussing it[2].
| Also, here's a company that sells them[3]. Looks like they use
| a pully system to double the weight and half the distance.
| Neat! I feel like I may have seen one of these before...
|
| [0] https://veterangaragedoor.com/faq/how-much-do-garage-
| doors-w...
|
| [1]
| https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Heavy_Du...
|
| [2] https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/8692/why-
| are...
|
| [3] https://www.hermco.ca/products/2000-series/
| elzbardico wrote:
| The people answering apparently don't know that you can use
| counter-weights, cables and pulleys instead of a torsion
| spring. It takes more space, but it rock solid and safer to
| fix.
|
| It is very common in some other countries.
| arh68 wrote:
| > _but the risk is comparable to doing your own car repairs_
|
| "Comparable" in that it's _way, way greater_ , sure. Unless we're
| talking dangerous car repairs, like using a spring compressor to
| disassemble a strut &c. Or using harbor freight jack stands..
|
| When my spring broke, I thought someone crashed their car into my
| house. It's an incredible amount of energy.
|
| Garage door springs are up there with lathes & table saws, in
| terms of danger (IMO).
| chasd00 wrote:
| the people you pay to do it aren't going to do it any safer than
| you would and if they get hurt you're liable. You may as well
| watch some youtube, take your time, and do it yourself.
| sfilmeyer wrote:
| I question whether it's actually true that they "aren't going
| to do it any safer than you would". I'd expect the typical
| person I hire to have a lot more experience than me which would
| give them a chance to be safer, to the point I'd expect it to
| overcome even the fact that they're probably not taking their
| time as much as I would.
|
| Separately, being liable for something happening to someone
| else and that same thing happening to me are not equivalent.
| Macabre as it is, I'd rather pay out (or have my insurance pay)
| the lawsuit for a professional hired for a particular task
| ending up grievously injured than end up grievously injured
| myself. In a lot of cases, I'd doubt you'd even be financially
| liable. From a moral standpoint there's still some culpability,
| but in the case of garage springs I think your obligation is
| more to stress to the professional that you're happy for them
| to take their time and you're willing to pay accordingly than
| it is to subject yourself to the risk instead. From a societal
| standpoint, a few repairpeople building up expertise at a
| particular task is safer than everyone doing it individually.
| scotty79 wrote:
| Experience brings complacency.
|
| Averagely experienced woodworkers loose fingers most often.
|
| When you are new to something you are super careful. When you
| are veteran you made or seen somebody make all mistakes
| already.
|
| When you are averagely experienced it's the most likely time
| for your confidence to exceed your capability.
| unglaublich wrote:
| I rather pay for a dead person than be the dead person. Also,
| you might expect some professionalism from a person advertising
| themselves as capable of doing the job, so not sure how your
| liability assumption holds up.
| ajcp wrote:
| > and if they get hurt you're liable
|
| That is about as true as you being liable for a mechanic
| hurting themselves working on your car or a repairman falling
| off the roof fixing your HVAC in that it's not true at all.
|
| Now, if a mechanic is working on my car and my garage door
| spring snaps and injures them then yes, I would be liable.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > if they get hurt you're liable
|
| Don't hire that person. Hire someone with insurance. You as
| homeowner are really unlikely to incur any liability as long as
| you are not substantially directing their work. Let them be the
| expert doing their job.
| theogravity wrote:
| I had mine fail on me a few years ago. Mine was a single spring,
| and after researching on how to replace, I decided that I'd
| rather pay someone else to take the risk.
|
| It was around $700 at the time and the installer installed two
| springs (side by side) to handle a failure event with one of
| them.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I've had springs replaced in the past, and that's one of those
| jobs I'm perfectly willing to pay someone else to do. The cost is
| insignificant. I'll happily wire up my own 240V appliances, work
| underneath my properly supported car, etc. But garage door
| springs? Nah, go ahead, you do it, send me the bill.
| dave78 wrote:
| The cost really is the key for me. We had one replaced a few
| months ago and it was a few hundred dollars and was done the
| same day. I usually prefer to DIY, but it would have taken me a
| while just to measure everything, round up the right spring and
| acquire it, get the correct rods and cut them to size, etc. I'm
| sure that would consume at least an afternoon for me and it
| would still cost something to acquire the parts. The savings
| just isn't worth it.
|
| If the cost to have it done professionally was $3000, it might
| be a different story.
| uticus wrote:
| If they are this bad to replace, should I be worried about them
| randomly failing? I mean, I drive right underneath them like
| twice a day backing in and out.
| buescher wrote:
| They typically fail when wound (closed), not unwound (open),
| because that's when they're stressed. Cables can fail when
| winding the drum (open), but you have two.
| therein wrote:
| That doesn't instill any peace of mind. So they are normally
| under stress and might explode at some random moment?
|
| Edit: Okay, that [0] doesn't look too violent.
|
| [0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4qTIpspUik
| XorNot wrote:
| What gets you as I understand it is that the turning
| handles for the springs. If you lose your grip on them its
| a rod of steel that's going to flung around at high speed
| with enough force to counter-weight an entire garage door.
| mzs wrote:
| There is a rod that contains the broken spring. If an
| installed spring were to break when the door was open the
| most likely cause of danger is a few hundred pounds of
| garage door coming down on whatever was under it, so wait
| for the door to fully open before driving through.
| xyst wrote:
| i thought there were alternates to torsion spring as the
| mechanism to open and close garage doors by now. I guess it's
| limited for residential installs
| elzbardico wrote:
| At my home country we used counter-weights, pulleys and cables.
| Took more space, it is arguably uglier (but who cares how it
| looks on the inside?) but the cable usually lasts for ages and
| fixing it is not a life-threatening procedure.
| elzbardico wrote:
| Torsion springs are BMWs, the expensive, over-engineered,
| beautiful, high performance style of doing this.
|
| Most of use would be just fine with a Toyota instead.
| galdosdi wrote:
| > Copyright 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010,
| 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 Richard J Kinch
|
| Why is 2013 missing?
| valleyer wrote:
| Presumably because the document was not updated in 2013. So no
| part of the document was first published in that year.
| lebuffon wrote:
| Reminds me of the old engineer joke:
|
| "Did you know you can save $27.00 if you build your own
| refrigerator?"
| winrid wrote:
| My grandfather is in his 70s and does this as his "retirement
| job", it's generally around $500 last I asked him...
| iancmceachern wrote:
| My dad would do anything, with confidence.
|
| This is the one thing he wouldn't touch.
|
| Me too.
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