[HN Gopher] Tick-killing pill shows promising results in human t...
___________________________________________________________________
Tick-killing pill shows promising results in human trial
Author : ludovicianul
Score : 212 points
Date : 2024-03-18 12:45 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| shrubble wrote:
| Ivermectin has been tested against certain ticks as well:
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34656045/
| salad-tycoon wrote:
| Been trying to figure out what to do with my liter of
| ivermectin. Thanks!
|
| Supposedly essential oils also kill ticks. I bought some yard
| sprays in addition to getting some tick hunting birds.
| lupusreal wrote:
| > _In most cases, a tick has to be attached for around 36 to 48
| hours before the bacteria can be transmitted_
|
| That's news to me.
| CharlesW wrote:
| I assume they're citing the CDC:
| https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/transmission/index.html
| TheCraiggers wrote:
| It's one of those "the risk goes up the longer it's attached"
| type things. I can't find studies, but I presume it looks like
| a bell curve.
|
| I know there's also a much higher risk of contracting diseases
| if you can't remove the tick in a careful way. If you smoosh
| it, or otherwise cause it enough distress that it regurgitates
| while still attached to you, that will also increase your
| chances.
|
| If you live in tick areas, get a tick kit, people. They're
| cheap. Don't do what my dad did and use _pliers_.
| bigbillheck wrote:
| > It's one of those "the risk goes up the longer it's
| attached" type things. I presume it looks like a bell curve.
|
| These two statements contradict each other.
| mjhay wrote:
| Not if the GP is describing the rate of change of the
| probability of transmission as a bell curve. We can assume
| 0% transmission when the bite first occurs, and assume that
| chance gradually plateaus at some point. That would look
| like an S-shaped logistic curve, whose derivative is bell-
| shaped.
| thehappypm wrote:
| It doesn't--
|
| Most tick bites take 36-48 hours before you get infected
| (bell hump). But sometimes you get infected quickly (left
| tail) and sometimes it takes longer (right tail).
| happyopossum wrote:
| That'd be an s-curve, as it's always going up - a bell
| curve goes up then down.
| macintux wrote:
| I suppose it depends on whether you're charting the
| cumulative or the "instant" odds.
| goda90 wrote:
| Tick gut bacteria takes awhile, but tick borne viruses that
| multiply in their salivary glands, like Powassan virus, are
| much faster. 15 minutes transmissions.
| jajko wrote:
| Its well known here for past decade. Maybe having wife working
| as a doctor helps, but this info is freely available. Also, if
| you ever interacted with any doctor with suspicion of a tick
| bite, this is first thing they ask.
|
| If you are outdoorsy type, this is should be around top of your
| list, just like knowing inside & out of say various mosquito-
| borne diseases and their spread vectors when traveling around.
| thinkingtoilet wrote:
| I live in Western Massachusetts and I can confirm this is
| objectively false. We have a ton of ticks here. You won't get
| lyme if it's on you for a few hours but if you get one on you
| and go to sleep you can get it by the time you wake up. It's
| more the longer it's on the more likely it is, but you
| absolutely can get it if it's been attached for only 12-18
| hours.
| thehappypm wrote:
| How do you know? I also live in a tick area and typically
| when i have one tick on me, there are more if i look around
| for them.
| xkcd-sucks wrote:
| I realize there is confirmation bias here, but ticks always
| seem to cause pain and inflammation after being attached
| for a bit
| thinkingtoilet wrote:
| >How do you know?
|
| I've seen it happen multiple times, once to myself.
| pwenzel wrote:
| Chronic lyme patient here, been bit twice. The first time a
| deer tick was attached to me for roughly 6-8 hours. I got
| really sick.
|
| Here's a couple pictures next to a ruler and a penny to show
| how tiny the tick was:
|
| https://imgur.com/7YpvzRb.jpg
|
| https://imgur.com/b5sUUO3.jpg
| bilsbie wrote:
| Any treatments you've found to help? It's a disaster trying
| to find info online.
| voidmain0001 wrote:
| Doxycycline worked for my Lyme infection.
| pwenzel wrote:
| I have a local doctor in my area that specializes in Lyme
| care. Doxycycline, Minocycline, herbs, supplements, and
| sleep. I have also taken the path of acupuncture and
| medical cannabis for supplemental pain management. Overall
| I'm doing better now!
| xkcd-sucks wrote:
| Central MA, also can confirm this is false. Possibly RMSF or
| something other than Lyme, but you can definitely get sick from
| non engorged nymphs.
| nyjah wrote:
| I'm in a rural area. For the last 3 years, we've had ticks. It
| was bad last year. Supposed to be really bad this year. I'm
| spraying permethrin this year. Unless someone here has a better
| idea..
| sarchertech wrote:
| Tick tubes. Permethrin sprayed directly will kill every
| beneficial insect as well and will just wash away after the
| first rain.
|
| Tick tubes are toilet paper rolls filled with permethrin soaked
| cotton balls. Rodents collect the cotton balls to use as
| nesting material which kills the nymph ticks that live on them
| before they can mature into adults. You put then out in early
| spring and again in summer. You can either make them yourself
| (much cheaper) or buy them ready made.
| xofer wrote:
| Chickens and other fowl, if allowed to free range for a couple
| of hours a day, will completely solve the problem.
| faitswulff wrote:
| > Thanks to climate change and exploding deer populations, ticks
| are expanding their ranges--and carrying diseases with them.
|
| We've had our first run ins with ticks in our suburban Chicago
| backyard recently. They were never an issue before, and never
| literally just outside the door. I'm sure the unseasonably warm
| start to the year is to blame.
| bmitc wrote:
| I was under the understanding that any animal with fur or
| feathers can carry ticks. It's probably also an issue that
| smaller animals that eat ticks, like possums, are getting
| squeezed out.
|
| Ever since I found out that ticks carry a disease that makes
| you allergic to meat, I became extra worried about them.
| However, despite living in a major tick area, I've luckily
| never seen one. I just make it a point to wear long pants and
| sleeves when working in the yard and then immediately shower
| afterwards.
| nucleardog wrote:
| If you don't mind some chemical treatments, a really
| effective combo is permethrin and picaridin.
|
| Pick a set of outerwear to be your yard work clothing. I've
| got a pair of overalls, a light long sleeve shirt, and a hat.
| Treat them with permethrin. This doesn't repel ticks and
| mosquitos, but can actually incapacitate or kill them on
| contact.
|
| Tuck your pants in your boots, and sleeves in your gloves if
| you're wearing any.
|
| Every time before you go out, spray yourself (particularly
| any exposed skin) with the picaridin repellent.
|
| I live in the middle of a forest that's sitting on wetlands.
| The bugs are out of control here. I haven't found a tick on
| me (not in me, on me at all) in years. I also get very, very
| few mosquito bites.
|
| (If you don't want to go this crazy... just long pants tucked
| in and some picaridin repellent before you go out is all my
| wife does and she's had similar results, though spends less
| time outside and less wandering through dense forest and
| stuff.)
| op00to wrote:
| Look into "tick tubes", which you scatter around your yard.
| Tick tubes have permethrin impregnated cotton inside them,
| which mice collect and use as bedding. Mice are a critical part
| of the tick life cycle. The permethrin kills ticks that feed on
| the mice, and over a season or two you can seriously eliminate
| infestations of ticks without indiscriminate pesticide
| spraying.
|
| The good thing is, we're just approaching the best time to
| apply tick tubes, early spring to summer.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| I've used this in the suburbs, and anecdotally it doesn't
| seem like any small critters are picking up the cotton at
| all. I guess I should be happy that I don't have any mice or
| rats in the area?
| op00to wrote:
| I don't think rats will touch the tubes, and it's totally
| possible there are no mice around.
|
| I had the same experience the first season I tried. I moved
| the location around the second season and noticed they were
| empty after a few months.
|
| I hide some near a wood pile, along fences underneath
| plants. I just ordered more. It makes me feel better even
| if it's just placebo.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| True enough - they're cheap enough that I'm not worried
| about wasting money.
| daemonologist wrote:
| Interesting, especially since it seems this product could be
| DIYed for _very_ cheap.
|
| I do wonder if we're going to end up with permethrin-
| resistant super ticks though.
| eindiran wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockdown_resistance
|
| I don't know if this has appeared in ticks but it has
| appeared in mosquitos.
| nightowl_games wrote:
| I've lived in an area that has dog ticks (not the Lyme carrying
| ones). I've pulled dozens of ticks off myself. I've never once
| had one attach, always caught them in time.
|
| I got into archery during covid and would haul a target out onto
| some grasslands and shoot. My buddy and I would pull half a dozen
| ticks off ourselves at the end. I'd find ticks half dead on my
| car dash the next day.
|
| We bought "tick pants". Pants coated in some chemical that does
| something like this. Tuck them into our boots.
|
| No more ticks.
|
| Clothes coated in this drug seems like a good alternative to
| actually consuming the drug in my opinion.
|
| Also I've been trying to spot a tick in the wild before it grabs
| me and have never done it. I want to see a "questing" tick, ie
| one that is holding on to the edge of a blade of grass with its
| arms out trying to grab something.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| It's called permethrin.
|
| Kills ticks but also kills cats, so be careful. I have heard
| that once it is dry, it isn't a threat to your little furry
| friend, but I still won't risk it.
| afandian wrote:
| And lots of other wildlife. https://theriverstrust.org/about-
| us/news/flea-mergency-pet-t...
| gryzzly wrote:
| In Germany there is a spray based on eucalyptus oil and it
| works very well. it is marketed as "sensitive". we have a
| dog that licks stuff and wanted to avoid the use of the
| acaricides
| kamarg wrote:
| It's also highly toxic to aquatic animals as well and does
| come off a bit when put in the wash.
| diggan wrote:
| > It's called permethrin.
|
| Seems there are a couple of chemicals that act as anti-tick.
| We're using Seresto collars for our two dogs (no ticks in a
| decade of usage), which seems to be using Imidacloprid (anti-
| fleas) and Flumethrin (anti-ticks).
|
| So at least there seems to be two ingredients, there are
| probably more.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I always wonder if we could have some human collar that
| absorbs & oozes out insecticide and keeps mosquitoes and
| blackflies away.
|
| But nice to see we're finally getting for humans what pets
| have had for a while for ticks.
| DowagerDave wrote:
| You don't usually get bitten by mosquitoes on your neck
| though, how would this help with the bites you DO get all
| over your legs and arms? Or are you suggesting something
| so potent it absorbs into your bloodstream and then
| prevents bug bites? no thanks.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| > Or are you suggesting something so potent it absorbs
| into your bloodstream and then prevents bug bites
|
| That's what the medicated pet collars do.
|
| Part of the advantage of collar-absorption is that you
| can use a molecule that readily breaks down/inactivates
| in digestion. And avoid sharp peaks in blood levels.
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| I knew a woman who was highly amused that the cancer drug
| she was on caused mosquitoes to die instantaneously upon
| biting her.
|
| Tough woman. She is missed.
| diggan wrote:
| > how would this help with the bites you DO get all over
| your legs and arms?
|
| Not sure how true it is, but the marketing for the
| collars we use claims that eventually the chemicals
| spreads to protect the full body, even if the collar is
| just around the neck.
| dylan604 wrote:
| > You don't usually get bitten by mosquitoes on your neck
| though,
|
| and how do you manage this?
| doodlebugging wrote:
| A long time ago when I worked on a seismic crew we found
| ourselves cutting lines through the brush in a river
| bottom. Millions of ticks would swarm up your pant legs
| in a red-brown cloud looking for any opening to your
| skin. It was not unusual to see someone strip down in the
| field and burn the ticks off of their clothes. I carried
| a large knife and used the blade to peel them off my
| pants by the hundreds. It was crazy how thick they were.
| They seemed to be hanging on every pecan leaf and on the
| grass under the trees.
|
| We began treating our boots with diesel to try to repel
| them. That worked to a point. It didn't take long to
| reveal the shortcoming in that method - diesel fuel soaks
| through the leather and easily enters the skin. It ruins
| the boot leather and burns your skin so that wearing
| anything on your feet is very painful so we abandoned
| that method.
|
| After looking at options we decided to use cattle ear
| tags because each cow only uses one and it keeps them
| tick-free. After reading all the warnings about safe
| handling - wear gloves, avoid skin contact, potential
| reproductive harm, cancer risk, etc. - we decided that it
| made no difference. We realized that this had to be
| absorbed through the cow's bloodstream from the puncture
| on the ear and since every cow we had ever seen had an
| ear tag, this meant that this chemical was present in
| every steak or burger we had ever eaten so wearing one
| long enough to complete the part of the survey with the
| tick problem wasn't going to increase our risk of any
| adverse effects.
|
| We bought a pack of tags and each hung one on a boot and
| never had another tick.
|
| I don't have any known health issues to report here 40
| years later. Totally anecdotal information from what is
| likely to have been a low-dose, short duration exposure
| event.
| delfinom wrote:
| The problem is ticks are also slowly becoming immune to it.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| _Kills ticks but also kills cats_
|
| AFAIK there has only been one documented case of it killing a
| kitten and it drank the liquid form, unknown quantity. Baby
| animals do not yet have fully formed livers to metabolize the
| sodium channel blocker. Insects on the other hand do not have
| a liver. They use body fat to detoxify but it isn't fast
| enough or volumetric enough to handle the sodium channel
| blocker in large amounts relative to their size.
| melvyn2 wrote:
| Here's a case study of 42:
| https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1016/j.jfms.2009.09.018
| And there's certainly many more cases than just those at a
| "referral hospital in Sydney, Australia."
| joecool1029 wrote:
| People put dog tick/flea stuff on cats all the time by
| accident containing it (I've personally seen it twice now),
| it usually doesn't kill them but it's absolutely horrible
| to witness, cats will get seizures and treatment is only
| supportive, either they live or they don't. Both the cases
| I saw were brought to the vet and the cats were messed up
| pretty bad for a few days.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| I could imagine if a cat was being covered in it often
| enough and they lick it up their glutathione may be
| depleted then their liver won't keep up. I will have to
| dig into the stats iskander provided to see pre-existing
| condition the cats were at. _i.e. elderly, kittens,
| sickly_ Skimming over it I am not seeing stats on age or
| liver health.
| iskander wrote:
| #1 on ASPCA's list of common toxicoses in cats:
| https://www.aspcapro.org/sites/default/files/zl-
| vetm0606_339...
|
| Study of 286 cat/permethrin cases in London: https://journa
| ls.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.jfms.2007.05...
|
| Study of 750 cases in Australia: https://journals.sagepub.c
| om/doi/full/10.1016/j.jfms.2009.12...
|
| ...we don't track this stuff nearly as well for pets as we
| do for humans but seems to have pretty robust evidence of
| toxicity.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| Thankyou for that. I had not found the Sage journal when
| I was looking for this in the past.
| nucleardog wrote:
| I use permethrin around my yard as well as have some clothing
| I've treated myself. I also use flea and tick treatment on my
| two dogs which is primarily permethrin.
|
| I have two cats and we haven't had any issues that I could
| see.
|
| I make 100% sure they can never be exposed to it when it's
| wet, but they've been around me in treated clothing, escaped
| the house and walked through treated (dry) grass, been around
| dogs that have been treated with it, etc.
|
| Given the number of people that have cats and dogs living
| together who are treating their dogs with it monthly, it
| seems relatively safe if used properly and cautiously.
| Tiktaalik wrote:
| Yeah it's a serious enough chemical that I think it's only
| legally usable in Canada by the military.
| stevenae wrote:
| I saw a questing tick once, it was actually kind of adorable.
| They wave their arms in a gathering motion, probably helps keep
| them balanced.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| kill.
| 83 wrote:
| Almost all coated clothes use permethrin or a similar
| pyrethroid. It's fairly effective but I often have issues with
| ticks coming off my dog much later and getting on me. I look
| forward to this (or a lyme vaccine) making it to market - the
| ticks are already pretty bad this year in the midwest.
|
| Watch for long grass along deer trails. During a particularly
| bad tick year (Wisconsin) I could walk along the deer trail by
| our swamp and just count the ticks hanging out on the ends of
| the green swamp grass. I did not spend much time outside that
| spring.
| tdb7893 wrote:
| Are there already ticks? I haven't seen them yet in Illinois
| (though my last hike was a week and a half ago) and it's been
| below freezing the last few days
| 83 wrote:
| Between my wife, dog, and I we've gotten about a dozen in
| the last three weeks (we are frequent visitors of
| forests/fields around here). One of them was in February
| which I've never seen before. Apparently it takes several
| days of 10 degree weather to kill them off so I doubt it
| will slow down much from the last couple days of cold.
|
| Unfortunately one of them was a deer tick that dug into my
| armpit, so now I'm playing the "wait and see if it's Lyme"
| game :(
| mike_red5hift wrote:
| When you know what to look for, a questing tick is not too hard
| to spot.
|
| If you are in an area that you suspect might have a lot of
| ticks. Look at the tips of any grass stems for a little
| brown/black spot. They climb as high as they can and then kinda
| "stand up" and put their "arms" up and out and wait for
| something to touch them. Then it's off to the races to climb as
| high as they can... on you. They stop once they hit an obstacle
| they can't easily get around and dig in.
|
| I spray my shoes with permethrin. That seems to almost totally
| eliminate climbers as I'm not walking through tall grass. You
| know they've gotten a deadly dose when they start walking in
| circles. I don't feel bad for them. My doctor told me that 85%
| of ticks in my area are positive for Lyme.
| DowagerDave wrote:
| trying to spot ticks in heavy brush as you are walking seems
| like a inefficient approach. They take a while to attach so
| if you do a thorough review after your activity you should be
| good. It's also a lot easier to strip down to your birthday
| suit in the privacy of your own home.
| transitionnel wrote:
| Yeah, still gotta enjoy nature without a crick in the neck.
| jajko wrote:
| Stripping down has massive 'corner' cases. If you are
| alone, good luck find one on your back, between ass cheeks
| and few other places. Also if you do full day activity (or
| god forbid multiday out in the wild), not so good.
|
| Once they reach your hair (unless you shave clean), even
| good luck may not be enough, _very_ hard to spot and almost
| impossible alone
| giantg2 wrote:
| "Stripping down has massive 'corner' cases. If you are
| alone, good luck find one on your back, between ass
| cheeks and few other places."
|
| Mirrors or camera phones are handy.
| jajko wrote:
| Yes of course but not good enough, imagine darker not
| ultra short hair, how do you spot one on the back of your
| greasy hair.
|
| I live in places where lyme is barely 5% incidence, and
| even that not everywhere. If it would be like 80% like
| some mention, doing week-long hikes alone would be
| outright suicidal. Better chances for retirement in base
| jumping.
| giantg2 wrote:
| You can feel your head for them. Even if you have one
| attach, Lyme is really only concern after 72 hours of
| attachment (other things can be an immediate concern).
| You should be quite itchy and notice it before then. A
| single dose of antibiotics is a highly effective post
| exposure prophylactic. Lyme is a concern, but not as bad
| as many in the media make it out to be.
| zikduruqe wrote:
| Where I grew up we called that Redneck Foreplay. When
| you'd get home and have the significant other do a tick
| check.
| alyandon wrote:
| When I was a kid, my mother would lightly apply sevin dust on
| the lower part of my jeans before I spent a lot of time
| outside. Seemed to work really well at reducing the incidence
| of flea/tick bites and the stuff washes off quite readily.
| hammock wrote:
| I didn't know what Sevin dust is. It's the pesticide that the
| plant in the Bhopal disaster was making (MIC, precursor to
| carbaryl). Today's Sevin doesn't have the same chemicals in
| it that it used to though
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster
| vanilla_nut wrote:
| Works well until you end up with temperatures too hot to wear
| pants. Or you exercise someplace with ticks and get too sweaty
| for pants.
|
| Hell, I live as far north as you can go in New England, and
| I've found ticks on my feet after grilling dinner in my
| backyard. At some point I just do not care to don my anti-tick
| hazmat suit every time I do anything outside.
| SamBam wrote:
| I once rented a cabin on Cape Cod, right next to the beach. The
| path to the beach had big clumps of grass growing at the sides,
| with overhanging blades of grass. The first day we realized
| that every single clump of grass had numerous questing ticks on
| them. You could see them clearly, all just waiting to latch on
| to you as you walked by. Honestly, it was kind of terrifying.
| transitionnel wrote:
| Thanks for this.
|
| I just pulled one [dug in] that I assume got on me meters away
| from a fully eaten deer carcass :/
|
| Tweezed it out best I could, H2O2'd and lightly cauterized it
| then Neosporin'd, but still gonna have to play the bullseye
| waiting game AFAIK...
|
| Got dang ticks!
| nick7376182 wrote:
| You can take a prophylactic dose of doxycycline for 1-2 days
| I believe. If you have a lot of ticks in your area a general
| physician should be familiar with that protocol.
| pabl8k wrote:
| It takes time for a tick to transmit lyme disease, but you
| can also take a single dose of doxycycline as post-exposure
| prophylaxis if you think it was attached for a while and ask
| a doctor
| switchbak wrote:
| Odd how the sibling comment got downvoted into oblivion for
| this, but you're right - prophylaxis is an option here, and
| last I checked it was the recommended course of action if
| you develop the bullseye ring. Note that the tests have
| high false negative rates, so still might be sensible if
| you have a negative test.
|
| Of course, these antibiotics are not without risk too.
| lyme-educator wrote:
| Some points correcting what's been posted here and above.
| A single dose of Doxycycline is not an effective
| prophylactic. It failed me and other people I know (after
| my doctor and I read over the CDC guideline that was
| misinformation). The original study supporting it was
| poor regarding how it was established as effective
| (required the bullseye rash). The bullseye rash does not
| appear for everyone. Depending on the attach
| point/strength, ticks pass along bacteria and/or viruses
| in minutes. Testing the tick and monitoring yourself for
| symptoms is always a good practice. I prefer clothing &
| topical solutions vs ingested chemicals.
|
| It would be nice to see support for natural consumption
| of ticks by fowl (chickens, turkeys, quail, etc),
| marsupial, etc.
| zikduruqe wrote:
| Put it in the freezer as you wait the bullseye game. If you
| do think you have Lyme's disease then bring the tick with you
| to the doctor, so that they confirm it.
| shafyy wrote:
| We usually use anti-tick spray on our skin and clothes when
| hiking in tick-infested areas, and then check for ticks in the
| evening. Also important to long pants and shirts if possible.
| kjhughes wrote:
| _Also I 've been trying to spot a tick in the wild before it
| grabs me and have never done it. I want to see a "questing"
| tick, ie one that is holding on to the edge of a blade of grass
| with its arms out trying to grab something._
|
| Interestingly, a "questing" tick has been found to be able to
| cross air gaps by leveraging static electricity:
| "We have now discovered that ticks can be lifted across air
| gaps several times larger than themselves by the static
| electricity that other animals naturally build up. This makes
| it easier for them to find and attach onto animals that they
| want to latch onto and feed from.
|
| https://www.bristol.ac.uk/biology/news/2023/httpswwwbristola...
| projektfu wrote:
| I don't know if the ticks would consume the drug on clothing.
| It is meant to be consumed in a blood meal. That said, it is
| largely well tolerated in dogs and cats.
| chankstein38 wrote:
| I agree I'd be more happy to use permethrin than ingest
| something that gets into my blood.
|
| I find a ton of ticks around where I live and have experienced
| a questing tick by pulling them off of my dog before they
| attach and then carrying them on something. Sure you're not
| spotting them naturally but they will quest when given the
| freedom to do so. If you don't kill them immediately but put
| them on a leaf or something they will crawl to an end of it and
| start! If you're just interested in seeing how it looks
| voisin wrote:
| Having to take a pill every few weeks seems like a major
| impediment to use. I could see certain hikers or forestry workers
| taking these pills but for your average few weekends a season
| camper, this isn't the right solution given the cadence with
| which you need to take the pill.
|
| What about the vaccine that was near approval a few decades ago?
| objektif wrote:
| Taking a pill day before you hike does not sound like too bad
| imo. I would looove to be able to not care about getting red
| meat allergy while hiking.
| alt227 wrote:
| Sounds about the same as needing to take Malaria pills when
| going near the equator.
| voisin wrote:
| Right, but the average person would go on a trip requiring
| these pills very, very sporadically. Imagine going camping or
| hiking irregularly throughout the year but needing to take
| these pills 20+ times? Seems crazy to me when there was an
| effective vaccine at one point.
| happypumpkin wrote:
| Ticks carry a lot more than Lyme though, and many of the
| diseases they carry can have long-term or life-long
| effects. Even with a Lyme vaccine I think it'd be worth it
| to take these if you're gonna be in a tick-heavy area.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powassan_virus
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_spotted_fever
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tularemia
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babesiosis
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha-gal_syndrome
| resoluteteeth wrote:
| > Right, but the average person would go on a trip
| requiring these pills very, very sporadically. Imagine
| going camping or hiking irregularly throughout the year but
| needing to take these pills 20+ times?
|
| Couldn't you just take it a few days before you go camping
| or hiking each time?
| voidmain0001 wrote:
| I live in an hot spot of tick borne Lyme disease (had Lyme
| once so far) so I would have to take these constantly as I'm
| constantly outside and I'm not hiking or in the woods. Ticks
| are everywhere here and with the lack of snow this winter
| they were active during the winter too.
| 83 wrote:
| I would love to have this pill available and don't see this as
| an issue. The ticks numbers really spike for about a month in
| the spring when they come out in force which is when I'd
| probably try to be on something like this. When spring dries
| out and turns to summer ticks are far less common here
| (Wisconsin) so you probably wouldn't be on it. Sometimes you'll
| get a little uptick in the fall but spring is the only time I'm
| really concerned about it.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Yeah I live on a rural property and I'd be uncomfortable taking
| something like this constantly through the season.
|
| So far I have success keeping the grass short, discouraging
| deer on the property (tick magnets), and keeping the (two) dogs
| on Nexgard.
|
| If they got worse, I'd get myself some guinea fowl to annoy the
| neighbours with.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| There is natural human immunity to ticks, though fairly rare. In
| those individuals, the immune system detects a biting tick and
| kills it.
|
| https://www.businessinsider.com/acquired-tick-resistance-why...
|
| https://www.statnews.com/2023/07/31/acquired-tick-resistance...
|
| That would be a superpower worth having. Perhaps a vaccine could
| confer this sort of immunity to us non-resistant folks?
| nazca wrote:
| I have hunting dogs that will pickup hundreds of ticks if not
| protected. I use Bravcto (Fluralaner) on them now, which is
| extremely effective. Hopefully lotilaner is similar with humans.
|
| Most of the older generation of anti-tick meds have pretty
| substantial side effects and poor efficacy.
| oldstrangers wrote:
| Isoxazoline class drugs still come with a lot of risks for
| pets.
|
| https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/animal-health-literacy...
| pgcudahy wrote:
| Not at normal doses. The therapeutic window is narrow, but
| they're used in millions of animals and we're not seeing an
| epidemic of seizures.
| https://www.merckvetmanual.com/toxicology/insecticide-and-
| ac...
| oldstrangers wrote:
| Merck, makers of Bravecto, say isoxazoline class drugs are
| safe... That's probably not a great source.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7738705/
|
| The consolidated FDA, Project Jake and EMA findings (Table
| 8) showed notable differences between survey populations
| regarding the percentage of neurological toxicity and
| serious AE, and fatal effects. Statistical analysis of
| these serious AE showed highly significant differences
| between the findings of the Project Jake survey and those
| reported by the FDA and EMA. While the number of death and
| seizure AE reported by the EMA was 7 to 10 times higher
| than those reported to the FDA, the reported responses for
| the Project Jake survey for death and seizures fell in
| between those of the FDA and EMA but aligned more closely
| with the EMA results. Furthermore, the number of reported
| death and seizure AE for lotilaner and spinosad were
| considerably higher than suggested with respect to their
| product labelling for potential neurological effects (Table
| 2 and and8).8).
|
| But yes, the drug is "generally" safe for use. It's still
| worth being aware of the potential risks.
| ahepp wrote:
| The link you posted has a notice right at the top saying
| the article has been corrected.
|
| It links to a corrigendum adding a conflict of interest
| disclosure stating
|
| > A Class Action lawsuit related to the use and safety of
| isoxazoline parasiticides was filed on December 27, 2019
| in New Jersey, while this manuscript was undergoing peer
| review. One of the article's co-authors, Valerie
| Palmieri, is the Plaintiff. [PALMIERI, et al. v. INTERVET
| INC, Case No. .2:19-cv-22024-JMV-AME (D. N. J.).]"
| oldstrangers wrote:
| Correct, a conflict of interest for sure, but it's still
| a peer reviewed paper regardless.
| projektfu wrote:
| It has several red flags, IMO.
|
| #1: Authorship is a big one, and the conflict of interest
| developing during the review process shows that these are
| not disinterested researchers.
|
| #2: The type of study is a nearly worthless type, in that
| it has no real statistical control and is just asking
| people to report on things on the internet. What ends up
| happening with these studies is that people self-recruit
| by word of mouth. Survey respondents may have been asked
| by other participants to register adverse events, and
| survey respondents may have never given the medication to
| a pet or seen an adverse event. There is no controlling
| for that apparent in the study.
|
| #3: The survey instrument is supposed to be in the
| appendix and it is not, yet it is not described. Their
| recruitment process is described only as "distributed
| electronically by mail throughout the United States to
| veterinarians, veterinary clients, pet caregivers/owners,
| kennel club groups and on social media sites between
| August 1 and 31, 2018." There are lots of complaints
| about the adverse-event reporting system, the worst is
| that adverse events are merely enumerated from reports
| and there is no real way to put them into a statistical
| study. This is just getting another enumeration of events
| and putting a different denominator under them.
|
| In my prescribing I have seen only one adverse event
| worth reporting: a dog was heartworm positive and
| received ivermectin, doxycycline and afoxolaner at the
| same time. It had a transient episode of low blood
| pressure treated with fluids. For a drug that, in their
| denominator, gives 80+% adverse reactions, that is very
| surprising. So, the study doesn't really pass the smell
| test.
|
| There have been other drugs that have caused adverse
| reactions in significant numbers of patients. We stop
| using them immediately. The difference is very
| noticeable.
| pgcudahy wrote:
| OMG, I went down the rabbit hole on this paper and it is
| bonkers. Their methodology is amateur hour. It's just an
| uncontrolled non-validated survey sent out by an activist
| group. What is their list of survey recipients based on?
| What were the demographic differences between responders
| and nonresponders? It's the science equivalent of a
| political push-poll
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll)
|
| The first author is a business executive who launched a
| huge class-action against Merck without disclosing it in
| this paper, the only veterinarian in the authors has been
| cited for practicing without a license
| (https://www.ocregister.com/2021/10/26/founder-of-
| hemopet-in-...) and the senior author is an orthopedic
| surgeon with no relation to the field and has maybe one
| other publication.
|
| Come on, this is not a serious paper.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| If you browse around pet forums, or go wild with Google,
| you'll find all sorts of anecdotal reports of people who
| claim their pets died (with all sorts of terrifying
| symptoms etc) soon after taking these kinds of drugs.
|
| Take from that what you want. It's anecdotal and non-
| scientific. But it concerns me enough that we keep our dogs
| on Nexgard only during the peak of tick season and not year
| round like the vets seem to want to push.
|
| There are also known genetic differences in dogs that cause
| some to find various anti-parasiticals (esp heartworm) to
| be toxic to some herding breeds (border collies, aus.
| sheperds). We had our border collies tested for this before
| putting them on medications. (https://vcacanada.com/know-
| your-pet/multidrug-resistance-mut...)
|
| That said, genetic diversity is higher in dogs than it is
| in humans.
| zdragnar wrote:
| I was the same way, until one of my dogs got Lyme's
| disease. It is so, so bad.
|
| We've also had a few warmer than usual weeks this winter,
| and deer ticks have been out for a month now, if not
| longer.
|
| I'm at the point where I'm probably going to have them on
| something year round.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Sorry to hear. Yeah this weird winter is super unusually
| warm where I am too, though we've fallen back into
| seasonal normals in the last week. I've been keeping an
| eye out for ticks, but so far nothing.
|
| I've only ever seen deer ticks here, never black legged,
| but they're definitely in the area.
| rozap wrote:
| They are absolutely not safe at normal doses. They killed
| my 2 year old dog. There are thousands of dogs out there
| that experienced seizures from this class of drugs.
|
| She had seizures within hours of giving her the stuff, and
| was dead within 48 hours.
|
| I'll happily die on this hill of looking like an internet
| crank ranting about drug companies, but it was a
| traumatizing experience for my wife and I, and even worse
| for our dog.
|
| Fuck Merck, they can rot in hell.
| cptaj wrote:
| I've been using Bravecto and Nexgard for the past 4 years and
| it really should be emphasized how much of a seismic shift
| these meds have been.
|
| I've had dogs all my life and live in a very tick-prone area.
| Nothing ever really worked, to be honest. It was a constant
| battle of attrition. I had to spray the house with nasty
| chemicals every few months cause that was pretty much the only
| thing that kind of tipped the balance against the ticks. I
| frankly don't know how we didn't get Lyme disease, we were
| exposed for decades.
|
| Since these new meds appeared, ticks have completely
| disappeared from our property. They only provide 1-3 months of
| protection, but they're so effective at eradicating the
| parasite population that I've only had to use 3 pills in the
| past 4 years.
| diggan wrote:
| There might be external effects happening at the same time
| here.
|
| I grew up on a island with a lot of ticks. Being a kid and
| spending time on fields and in forests, we constantly had to
| remove ticks before heading home.
|
| But now 2 decades later, visiting the island again as an
| adult and expecting having to do the same after walking
| around the forest, we didn't find a single tick on ourselves,
| when it would easily have been a couple of ticks each in the
| before-days.
|
| So many parameters being different though, so hard to reach
| any conclusion, maybe my blood is less attractive, maybe we
| weren't physically intensive enough, maybe the wrong season,
| but maybe there are other chemicals at play too that wasn't
| there before.
| deanc wrote:
| This will be game-changing if it works for the Nordics. Here in
| Finland, ticks are an ongoing nuisance carrying lyme and also TBE
| (which can be vaccinated against). They are almost unavoidable if
| you go into nature during the warmer months and walk past any
| bushes, or long grass. Finland is also covered in forest too, and
| they can often be found falling from trees on top of hammocks and
| tents.
| h00k wrote:
| There was a vaccine on the market but was discontinued in 2002 by
| its manufacturer. I don't know reasons why.
|
| Pfizer currently has a Lymes vaccine study that I have some
| personal knowledge on that should be wrapped up in 2025:
| https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta...
|
| > About the VALOR trial VALOR is an ongoing randomized, observer-
| blind, placebo-controlled Phase 3 trial which has enrolled 9,437*
| participants 5 years of age and older to receive VLA15 or a
| saline placebo (1:1 ratio). As part of the primary series,
| participants receive three doses of VLA15 within the first year
| at months 0, 2 and 5-9, and one booster dose 9-12 months after
| completion of the primary immunization.5 The final primary series
| vaccination for participants occurs just before the peak Lyme
| disease season for the region. Participants will be followed for
| the occurrence of Lyme disease. The trial is conducted at sites
| located in areas where Lyme disease is highly endemic across the
| U.S., Canada and Europe and has enrolled volunteers with a
| cleared past infection with Borrelia burgdorferi as well as
| Borrelia burgdorferi naive volunteers.
| icegreentea2 wrote:
| LYMErix was withdrawn because there were concerns it was
| inducing arthritis.
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/
|
| There is lab data suggesting an interaction between LYMErix and
| certain genotypes potentially inducing arthritis, but the
| initial trial and post market surveillance data did not show
| any meaningfully elevated arthritis rates. However, post market
| surveillance was definitely hampered by the limited market
| uptake, fueled partly by the side effect concern.
|
| Genetic testing/screening should be significantly cheaper
| today, and the higher prevalence of ticks as a concern would
| probably mean that LYMErix could probably be a viable product
| today, even if its arthritis side effect profile was real, as
| long as it was combined with screening.
| SigmundA wrote:
| It was around the time when vaccine and Autism mania was at its
| peak:
|
| > Despite the lack of evidence that the complaints were caused
| by the vaccine, sales plummeted and LYMErix was withdrawn from
| the U.S. market by GlaxoSmithKline in February 2002, in the
| setting of negative media coverage and fears of vaccine side
| effects. The fate of LYMErix was described in the medical
| literature as a "cautionary tale"; an editorial in Nature cited
| the withdrawal of LYMErix as an instance in which "unfounded
| public fears place pressures on vaccine developers that go
| beyond reasonable safety considerations." The original
| developer of the OspA vaccine at the Max Planck Institute told
| Nature: "This just shows how irrational the world can be ...
| There was no scientific justification for the first OspA
| vaccine LYMErix being pulled.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#LYMErix
| beefman wrote:
| We should think bigger: gene drive to eradicate ticks.
| jncfhnb wrote:
| The effort with mosquitos didn't work. Forcing a gene with
| negative impact on survivability is touch
| ed_balls wrote:
| mosquitos are hard, but with ticks there are a few different
| vectors of attack.
|
| My understanding is that ticks first need to bite a rodent
| that is infected to spread Lyme, so maybe gene editing on
| rodents?
| bilsbie wrote:
| Has anyone looked into giving these to mice and deer?
|
| That would kill off deer ticks really quickly.
| amelius wrote:
| > The experimental pill that Tarsus Pharmaceuticals is testing is
| a formulation of lotilaner, a drug that paralyzes and kills
| parasites by interfering with the way that signals are passed
| between their nerve cells.
|
| Who knows what effect this has on signals between our own nerve
| cells. Yikes.
| diggan wrote:
| I think existing anti-tick chemicals works the same way, at
| least from my amateur understanding. Flumethrin (which is used
| as anti-tick in the collar we use for our dogs) targets the
| nervous system of parasites, which I understand to be the same
| approach as what Tarsus Pharmaceuticals is testing.
| pgcudahy wrote:
| They target gamma-aminobutyric acid chloride channels (GABACl)
| that aren't present in mammals. There is a relatively narrow
| therapeutic index in animals, but generally felt to be safe at
| approved doses. They're given to millions of animals, so we'd
| probably know if there was a problem.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| Lotilaner is selective for mite GABA receptors. No activity has
| been found for mammalian receptors even at doses far above the
| ones in clinical use.
| xkcd-sucks wrote:
| It's easier and more plausible than a rat poison that doesn't
| hurt people; harder and less plausible than an antibiotic that
| doesn't hurt people; ultimately the proof is in the pudding.
|
| Personally I would not try this in a long lasting formulation,
| only something oral that washes out completely in a few hours,
| unless it had been on the market for quite a long time
| amelius wrote:
| People also believed that pesticides like Roundup only affect
| insects. However, after a few decades it is becoming clearer
| that there is a link with Parkinson's.
|
| See e.g.: https://parkinsonscare.org.uk/pesticides-and-
| herbicides/
| seattle_spring wrote:
| We probably know a lot about how it does or does not affect
| humans. "Just asking questions" from an unscientific
| perspective is why we have people saying things like "GMOs eat
| the lining of your stomach!"
| sunshine_reggae wrote:
| How do you get the tick to swallow the pill?
| Pikamander2 wrote:
| Very carefully.
| sideshowb wrote:
| I read the headline as implying the humans died...
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| It seems to me that what we want is something like this but
| spread through the deer and mouse populations instead. Because in
| the case of lyme spreading ticks, their (complicated) lifecycle
| involves both of those populations. Deer carry huge populations
| of ticks.
|
| If drops of food laced with this kind of thing were given to
| deer, I'd expect it to drop the tick populations significantly.
| Without risk of human side effects.
|
| That and we need to cull deer populations and encourage predators
| of mice generally.
| DowagerDave wrote:
| What's super interesting about Lyme disease is that the cycle is
| larval and nymphal ticks get infected from (typically) a rodent,
| then if they feed on a deer, not only does the deer not get
| infected, it appears to cure the tick. Also female ticks do not
| pass this on to their offspring.
| zzzeek wrote:
| there's a vaccine for Lyme. I'd like that. not a pill that is
| literally poison, putting deet on our skin is bad enough.
| josephcsible wrote:
| There are a lot more tick-borne diseases than just Lyme.
| mattwdelong wrote:
| I bought property in 2021 with significant tick pressure. I've
| pulled dozens of ticks off me in the first couple years. The past
| two years I've been spraying Heterorhabditis bacteriophora and
| have seen significant improvement in that time. I have a tractor
| with a boom sprayer, which helps with large coverage. Obviously
| this is not a variable you can control in the wild, but for me,
| it has been super helpful on private land.
| test1235 wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterorhabditis_bacteriophora
|
| "Heterorhabditis bacteriophora is a species of entomopathogenic
| nematode known commonly as beneficial nematodes. They are
| microscopic and are used in gardening as a form of biological
| pest control."
|
| That's fascinating. Have you noticed any knock-on effects? E.g.
| fall in the number of other wildlife which might normally feed
| on those insects?
| mattwdelong wrote:
| Nothing of note. I still see plenty of turkeys, frogs and
| possums. I spray the beneficials so that it does not harm
| other beneficial insects and I assume if there is a healthy
| population of insects in general, there is still enough food
| source for wildlife. I can't think of anything that prefers
| ticks as their main diet.
| uticus wrote:
| > I can't think of anything that prefers ticks as their
| main diet.
|
| not 'main diet,' but can confirm free range guineas,
| chickens, etc help with the tick pressure.
| verisimi wrote:
| > Tick-killing pill shows promising results in human trial
|
| Surely they could have given the treatment to ticks rather than
| humans? :)
| w10-1 wrote:
| No, no, no.
|
| Why bother killing the tick after a tick bite has delivered
| Lyme's Borrelia burgdorferi spirochete? Even if it's effective at
| killing ticks, it won't stop Lyme transmission.
|
| And for it to be effective at killing ticks, the human has to be
| completely steeped in this GABA channel blocker paralytic.
|
| The eye drops offer no real safety guarantees because the dosages
| are no where near comparable. The human study of surface skin had
| no data on bites and a short observation period of 6 weeks
| (roughly the 11-day half-life x 5 half-lives to wash out the
| dose?).
|
| ----
|
| The reported cost for ophthalmic 10ml solution of 0.25%
| lotilaner/Xdemvy for mites is ~$2k.
|
| Reported adverse effects in dogs of lotilaner from 2013-2018 were
| only ~250, compared to 4k-18K for other drugs (no data on
| prevalence/usage).
|
| It works as a GABA channel inhibitor (neurologic paralytic),
| specific to mites and perhaps ticks. No effect found in mammalian
| cells at ~11K/daily dosage for the ophthalmic drops.
|
| Human blepharitis study had ~400 people in treatment arm over 6
| weeks, ~50% effective.
|
| Half-life of 11 days. No reported reversal agent. So if it is
| toxic, you're out of luck.
|
| The optical solution is a tiny amount in the eyes, so little
| systemic exposure risk.
|
| The tick pill involves much more systemic exposure via blood, so
| the eye drop experience says almost nothing about risk to humans.
|
| I imagine the exposure to the tick from a blood bite is 10-1000x
| what it is from walking on the skin, so it's not clear to me this
| would stop lyme's Borrelia burgdorferi from being transmitted
| with the initial bite.
|
| So: no.
| streptomycin wrote:
| https://www.uptodate.com/contents/what-to-do-after-a-tick-bi...
|
| > Even if a tick is attached, it must have taken a blood meal
| to transmit Lyme disease. At least 36 to 48 hours of feeding is
| typically required for a tick to have fed and then transmit the
| bacterium that causes Lyme disease.
| oblib wrote:
| I live in rural area of the Ozarks where there are a lot of
| ticks. Treating shoes and clothes with permethrin is the most
| effective way to keep them off you.
|
| And doing "tick checks" when you come inside your home is a habit
| here. Getting them off you fast is the best way to keep from
| getting lyme disease.
|
| And either burning off or grinding up and piling up all the
| leaves to make compost this time of year is the best way to get
| them out of your yard.
|
| I learned this the hard way. Here's a video of how bad they can
| get here and one of my first attempts at trying to get rid of
| them. It didn't really work very well:
|
| https://youtu.be/TFVDv8swzxQ?si=C4R064iTgRjdvSwv
| ben7799 wrote:
| Your video is crazy.
|
| I have never seen anything like that up here in New England.
| That towel has more ticks on it than I've seen in my life, and
| we're not exactly a low-Lyme area.
|
| Good luck!
| below43 wrote:
| I know it's not the intent, but this video is a very good
| advert for pesticides.
| oblib wrote:
| I did end up nuking the yard with pesticide that year.
|
| Since then I've ground up the leaves this time of year and
| pile them up to compost them. In spring and summer I bag
| grass clippings and stuff those into the pile of composting
| leaves and it's amazing how hot those clippings get. Hot
| enough to roast any ticks in there for sure. So for the past
| few years we've had almost no ticks at all during the warm
| season. And I haven't had to use any pesticides.
| projektfu wrote:
| I tried to interest any researcher in using an isoxazoline as a
| method of malaria control by offering it to people infected with
| malaria to protect their villages. The idea would be that
| mosquitoes that bite infected persons would die, reducing the
| population of infected mosquitoes.
|
| Nobody wrote me back. If you are studying malaria and are
| interested in this approach, please run with it. I won't be sore.
| mwpmaybe wrote:
| They've been doing that with ivermectin in some parts of the
| world.
| 1letterunixname wrote:
| Good start as another layer of defense with DEET, clothing, and
| such.
|
| The next iteration should be a pill that causes ticks to avoid
| humans altogether.
|
| Bonus points if there were a pill that also causes mosquitos to
| avoid humans.
| ecommerceguy wrote:
| Its so crazy, and I've lived in rural areas, been hunting in
| Ozark woods, I've never gotten bit by a tick. A friend of mine
| was literally covered in them one day after shooting stuff, he
| put one on my hand and it jumped off. Needless to say he was
| jealous.
| syedkarim wrote:
| I thought ticks could not jump or fly.
| e40 wrote:
| Are ticks a new phenomenon? What about in the 1800s? Did
| explorers get them? How did they deal with them?
| flurdy wrote:
| I would suspect in earlier times they were not aware of why
| they got sick or had a fever. I think people are just not aware
| of how frequently ill the population was in general several
| hundred years ago, especially in cities, though not tick
| related.
| bee_rider wrote:
| It is really impressive that they managed to get the ticks to eat
| the pills.
| alphazard wrote:
| > The experimental pill that Tarsus Pharmaceuticals is testing is
| a formulation of lotilaner, a drug that paralyzes and kills
| parasites by interfering with the way that signals are passed
| between their nerve cells.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotilaner
|
| Couldn't find a good description of mechanism of action on
| Wikipedia. I also have nerve cells that need to communicate and
| damaging them just to spite a tick seems counterproductive.
| rozap wrote:
| Not sure about the effects of lotilaner as described in the
| article, but flurolaner is the active ingredient in bravecto, a
| flea and tick medicine for dogs. There's a class action against
| the manufacturer as thousands of dogs have gotten seriously ill
| or killed from the drug. My 2 year old collie (no previous
| health issues) was poisoned and died after we gave her
| bravecto. She had several seizures within hours of giving her
| the dose and was dead within 48 hours.
|
| I'm surprised that similar sounding drugs are making their way
| to humans. I'm not a chemist and I'm not sure how similar
| lotilaner and flurolaner are, but damn if I'm not suspicious.
| quatrefoil wrote:
| I mean, we had this stuff for pets for a long time. The basic
| idea is that yes, it's a lipid-soluble neurotoxin. Because it
| is fat-soluble, it spreads throughout various tissues and
| lingers for a good while, which is these pet formulations last
| for weeks or months.
|
| And yes, it is technically a mammal neurotoxin too, although
| our bodies are better at compartmentalizing and managing the
| risk. Similarly, you don't drop dead if exposed to caffeine or
| nicotine, even though they are insect neurotoxins produced by
| plants to kill bugs.
|
| But it cracks me up that we are flipping out about herbicides
| such as glyphosate or 2,5-D - both of which are plant growth
| regulators that have no real mechanism to cause obvious harm in
| animals - but we're a lot more flippant with actual animal
| neurotoxins such as permethrin.
| hollerith wrote:
| A lot of the worry about glyphosate is about its effect on
| _microbes_ in the human gut.
| BinaryBuddha wrote:
| As in... it also kills humans???
| whyenot wrote:
| Sign me up! As a botanist I used to work in some areas where it
| would not be unusual to remove hundreds of ticks from my field
| clothes in a day. Inevitably one or two would slip through.
| joe8756438 wrote:
| I'm outside a lot. Live on a farm in mid-atlantic US. I'm not
| opposed to chemical solutions, but I have a pretty effective
| mechanical approach to ticks [1]. Basically it takes advantage of
| a tick's inclination to walk upward. Tuck your pants into socks
| and shirt into pants. Wear colors that contrast with the tick
| body and CHECK YOURSELF!
|
| 1. https://hedgerider.farm/blog/ticks-go-up/
| cyberax wrote:
| I grew up in an area where tickborne encephalitis is endemic. For
| those who don't know, tickborne encephalitis is a delightful
| viral disease, with 5% lethality rate and a real chance of
| neurological damage in case of recovery. Oh, and the virus also
| persists throughout the whole life and can re-activated by
| antibiotics or other kinds of immune stress.
|
| Our trips to the woods looked like a visit to a BSL-4 lab.
| Tightly buttoned shirts, long sleeves, checking each other after
| a visit, etc.
|
| Fuck ticks.
| nntwozz wrote:
| I'm still waiting for nootkatone products to take off after
| reading about it in The Ultimate Hang back around 2011.
|
| "The active ingredient, nootkatone, is found in Alaska yellow
| cedar trees (also known as the Nootka cypress), some herbs, and
| citrus fruits. Biologists in CDC's Division of Vector-Borne
| Diseases have found nootkatone to be an effective repellent and
| insecticide for use against ticks and mosquitoes."
|
| It's super effective and completely natural without any
| drawbacks, but apparently hard to synthesize on a commercial
| scale.
| coderenegade wrote:
| I grew up in an area with pervasive cattle ticks. I've pulled
| them off of myself, and pulled thousands from our dogs. My father
| claims to have once seen a lizard with a tick on its eyeball.
|
| Our solution was a bit of sulfur powder in the dog's food, and
| around the edges of the verandah, which was a home remedy
| suggested by the grey beards in the area. We never had any
| problems after that.
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