[HN Gopher] IBM 360's are searching for a new home
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IBM 360's are searching for a new home
Author : ngcc_hk
Score : 187 points
Date : 2024-03-16 20:00 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ibm360.co.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ibm360.co.uk)
| spzb wrote:
| https://archive.is/5Uqf8
| chasil wrote:
| Does the Hercules emulator have all the firmware from these
| systems (and peripherals) in their collection already?
|
| http://www.hercules-390.eu/
|
| I know there was specific microcode here:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30073973
| pinewurst wrote:
| Hercules doesn't emulate at the microcode level. It implements
| the appropriate instruction set(s).
| chasil wrote:
| Reading a little deeper into the previous HN post, this one
| does:
|
| https://static.righto.com/360/
| kens wrote:
| To clarify, that is an emulator specific for the IBM 360/50
| that runs the microcode. It is a demo, not a useful system.
| It has nothing to do with Hercules.
| chasil wrote:
| And thank you for writing it.
| monocasa wrote:
| The 360 model 20 isn't actually a 360 compatible system. It's a
| 16 bit subset 'inspired by' the 360.
| ngcc_hk wrote:
| You are right it is a subset. Not sure it is totally true it
| is incompatible though, but do have some incompatible
| instruction.
|
| It is the most numerous 360 computer installed, more than
| 7000. See
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System/360_Model_20 .
|
| It is sad to let these go as part of computer history.
| monocasa wrote:
| It is incompatible. For one example, it doesn't have
| registers R0-R7, using those as encodings as additional
| address bits. It also doesn't have the top half of
| registers R8-R15.
| KerrAvon wrote:
| The original intent IIRC was the programs for the model 20
| would be upwards compatible with the rest of the series,
| but that the higher level models would not be downward
| compatible with the 20. No idea if that ended up being
| achieved.
| _V_ wrote:
| I would love to take atleast one of these & try to restore it...
| Such a beatiful piece of engineering (and history)!
| neom wrote:
| Looks like they ran a Puma factory/office of some descriptions,
| would be very interesting to see what the software they made
| for them does.
|
| https://www.ibm360.co.uk/?page_id=22
| FLT8 wrote:
| I wonder if Sam of "look mum no computer" fame from YouTube might
| be interested for his museum ("this museum is not obsolete").
| He's shown a fascination with and aptitude for all kinds of old
| tech, although he does tend to focus a bit more on equipment that
| he can make music with.
| timthorn wrote:
| His museum doesn't have enough floor space for even one of the
| mainframes without evicting lots of other interesting stuff.
| It's actually just a few yards from a computer museum though.
| tivert wrote:
| > 1x 2152 System Console (possibly the last remaining example of
| this in the world, though in poor condition)
|
| > 2x 2415 II Tape Drives (One master, one slave) (Possibly only
| remaining examples of this model globally)
|
| Any pictures/info on those things? "Last example in the world" is
| pretty interesting and I guess urgent to see.
|
| I hope the Computer History Museum buys it, and fixes it up for
| live demos. The IBM 1401 they have is cool, but I kind of think
| an IBM 360 would be cooler, given its historical importance.
| darreninthenet wrote:
| In case they hadn't seen the article, I sent it to the senior
| curator... fingers crossed
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| I wonder what if someone could reproduce this kind of ancient
| high-tech using modern precision production technologies and
| durable materials. Could we build those huge size low density
| hard drives and other components with orders of magnitude higher
| quality so they would last forever and never need anything
| replaced?
| nottorp wrote:
| Define forever. Especially because you mentioned hard drives -
| moving parts. Which will definitely wear out in time.
| accrual wrote:
| I suppose the modern equivalent of what GP is asking for
| would be SLC flash. Each bit has its own dedicated cell,
| compared to the denser and more common MLC/TLC/QLC flash
| where cells are shared. I would trust data stored in SLC to
| last unpowered for a lot longer than your average QLC disk.
|
| Or maybe core memory would be more stable over time?
|
| If we're going for ultimate durability, maybe the laser
| inscribed glass would be the way to go, but not sure it's
| practical as typical computer memory. [0]
|
| [0] https://www.sciencealert.com/this-new-5d-data-storage-
| disc-c...
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| As far as I know hard drives are more and more prone to
| have bad blocks as you travel back in time. An old man who
| had access to computers before I have even been born told
| me every HDD in production had some. However, nowadays as
| HDDs density went insane and each block is so tiny, a
| single bad block usually means a red alert suggesting more
| are coming and the whole drive is dying, nevertheless this
| is a rare thing to happen as we now can produce all the
| parts with extreme precision making it a "swiss clockwork"
| sort of reliable. This way, can't we produce a flawlessly
| perfect HDD of the old kind so its huge blocks would never
| turn bad?
| nottorp wrote:
| I don't think modern hdd bad blocks work this way.
|
| Look at the SMART property "reallocated sector count",
| which was there before SSDs.
|
| They have firmware and spare capacity just like SSDs.
| When you do get a bad block it means they ran out of
| spare space.
| Borg3 wrote:
| I have HDDs (spining rust) in my desktop that are 10+ years
| and still running fine. I had older SCSI UW-320 disks that
| were running 20+ years until well, started to give I/O
| errors. Workloads are low here (mostly read). So I imagine it
| is doable to do HDD with low density and high grade
| components that would last 100 years. Interesting challenge
| imo.
| vitiral wrote:
| http://civboot.org is basically trying to answer exactly this
| question
| daetnyr wrote:
| I remember donating to help them transport the 360 out of
| Germany. Hope some obtainsit who will document its restoration.
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