[HN Gopher] The Rising Price of Power in Chips
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       The Rising Price of Power in Chips
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2024-03-16 11:35 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (semiengineering.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (semiengineering.com)
        
       | datameta wrote:
       | In Figure 2 depicting 2.5D warping, why is 246C a relevant
       | temperature? In my experience with IBM Power and Z systems, north
       | of 85C is considered the high end already. What am I missing?
       | 
       | Interesting article overall.
        
         | mikewarot wrote:
         | The picture shows temperatures up to 316K, which is 42 C.... so
         | likely it's a typo for 46 (or 45?) centigrade.
         | 
         | It's the repeating of an earlier mistake.[1] Which apparently
         | partially arises from [2] which is behind a paywall.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ansys-
         | receives-2021...
         | 
         | [2] https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Heterogeneous-
         | Integrat...
        
           | datameta wrote:
           | Ah yes, that's it right there. Excellent sleuthing, thanks.
        
       | godzillabrennus wrote:
       | Great breakdown of current challenges.
        
       | RetroTechie wrote:
       | What hardware advances giveth, today's beyond-ridiculous-
       | overweight software stacks taketh away.
        
         | sliken wrote:
         | I think of that as a win. Heavy software stacks create a demand
         | for faster hardware and the market provides. Those of us with
         | use cases that represent a tiny marketshare, but actually need
         | the performance can do so with light software stacks.
         | 
         | So the question is, how can we make the overweight software
         | stacks even slower?
        
           | Out_of_Characte wrote:
           | By going back to using interpreted languages. No more
           | precompiled binaries where changing/adding patches and flags
           | require full builds, just stream compiled/compressed source
           | code directly to the target.
           | 
           | You could also extern the software to a webserver and only
           | cache small parts of the software on the client. Instead of
           | gigabytes of install sizes you'll be required to have a 1 or
           | 10 gbit network link to run and stream features as you're
           | acessing them.
        
             | mmoskal wrote:
             | Oh come on! No one would ever do that!... Oh wait
        
         | VelesDude wrote:
         | Pffft!!! No it doesn't. By the way, here is my new 'Hello
         | World' app, it is only 380MB + dependencies.
        
       | bevekspldnw wrote:
       | I'll replace my i9 workstations with an ARM equivalent as soon as
       | I can. The power draw on i9 sucks, more so with the A6000
       | running.
        
         | error_logic wrote:
         | The idea that ARM solves power issues seems a bit overblown and
         | driven by Apple purchasing the most advanced nodes sooner than
         | competitors, causing people to associate the efficiency gain
         | with the architecture even though a lot of it is the silicon
         | process.
         | 
         | Edit: Also Apple can and does do away with legacy support which
         | is less about the architecture and more about expectations of
         | what is included vs. deprecated. The push to ARM seems like it
         | will result in a loss of support and control in the users'
         | hands (converting expectations of PCs into those of
         | smartphones) but now I'm really into speculative territory...
        
           | lend000 wrote:
           | This is probably largely accurate -- not to mention the fact
           | that Apple has been using efficiency cores longer than x86
           | competitors.
        
       | moffkalast wrote:
       | > "The base leakage is lower than the previous technology, but
       | the overall total power is higher," said Melika Roshandell,
       | product management director at Cadence. "So at the end of the
       | day, your thermal is going to be worse because you're packing a
       | lot more transistors into one IC and you're pushing the
       | performance.
       | 
       | So why not match the previous gen's TDP and just use whatever
       | gains you get from more efficiency?
       | 
       | Back in the 90s 300W was considered extreme for an entire system,
       | today just a single 4090 can pull a full kilowatt. This constant
       | increase manufacturers have been pushing to compensate for
       | diminishing returns is unsustainable and completely absurd.
        
       | milesvp wrote:
       | I'm curious about what is happening in the field of reversable
       | computing. I haven't heard much about it at all in the last 20
       | years. Basic information theory tells us that it takes energy to
       | destroy information, so building ALUs that limit destroying
       | information seems like a bit of a no brainer for attempting to
       | create lower power (and heat) computing. The basic premise is
       | that for any operation that loses info you store enough bits to
       | allow the operation to run backwards. If you were clever about
       | it, you could design your chips to only destroy bits in places
       | that can be effectively as well. I'm sure reality gets in the way
       | of pure theory, but I was sure that people were spending enough
       | effort on the concept to have heard more about it.
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | Reversible computing doesn't help wrt. static or leakage power,
         | which is an increasing fraction of power draw in recent device
         | nodes. It does help wrt. dynamic power, and can be implemented
         | via charge-recovery logic - but this comes at a cost in area
         | which increases static power.
        
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       (page generated 2024-03-16 23:00 UTC)