[HN Gopher] The Miss Julie
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The Miss Julie
Author : Brajeshwar
Score : 42 points
Date : 2024-03-15 13:54 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (aeon.co)
(TXT) w3m dump (aeon.co)
| gerikson wrote:
| Title should be "The real Miss Julie".
| gjm11 wrote:
| Does anyone have anything resembling statistics on how often
| the HN auto-de-clickbaiter actually improves article titles? I
| only _notice_ it when it wrecks them, which it seems like it
| does really often, but maybe there are dozens of cases where it
| 's just quietly making things a little bit better. Or not.
|
| [EDITED to add:] Of course I'm not suggesting an automated
| system that assesses which changes are improvements, or
| anything like that. But maybe there's something somewhere that
| logs every title change that gets made, and every now and then
| someone could look at the most recent 50 and see whether it's
| making things better or worse on net.
| Brajeshwar wrote:
| I could not find on https://hackernewstitles.netlify.app yet
|
| I'm sure I didn't edit it from the original, so that would be
| the HN's auto edit doing its job. Let the mods come in and
| make the title better.
| pvg wrote:
| You can just check after posting and fix the title
| yourself, if the autoedit messes something up.
| Brajeshwar wrote:
| I can't edit after a while. I think, I can edit within
| 60-min. I missed the window.
| pvg wrote:
| Right, I meant worth checking after posting, now it's up
| to the title deities.
| CyberDildonics wrote:
| The pipeline of a title is:
|
| 1. A blogger writes a short clickbait title with no
| information about what the article is about. (The real Miss
| Julie)
|
| 2. The hacker news de-clickbait filter takes it from a
| generic, no context title to something grammatically
| incorrect and nonsensical. (The Miss Julie)
|
| 3. Someone changes the title but still doesn't give any
| context.
|
| "Fish swim in the ocean" becomes "Fish the ocean" becomes
| "Scientist observe fish".
| prerok wrote:
| Genuine interest: why is the title considered clickbaity?
|
| I understand that the automated system transformed it and
| in this case would consider the automation to be wrong,
| however I don't really see the article itself as
| clickbaity.
| CyberDildonics wrote:
| _why is the title considered clickbaity?_
|
| Because it has no information and there is no way to know
| what the article is about.
| MarcelOlsz wrote:
| In other words, it's baiting me to click.
| pvg wrote:
| The automatic edit is obviously wrong but the title is
| not clickbait, the GP is just mistaken about that.
| gjm11 wrote:
| I don't think "The real Miss Julie" is a clickbaity title.
|
| It's a perplexing title if you haven't heard of
| Strindberg's play, for sure, but that's no different from a
| title like "Improving Kubernetes" or "Riemann Hypothesis
| proved", which will make sense only if you know about
| Kubernetes or the Riemann Hypothesis.
|
| If you _have_ heard of Strindberg's play and make the
| connection with the title, then the obvious interpretation
| is something like "it turns out that there was an actual
| person Strindberg's character was based on, and this
| article is about her". Which, as it happens, is exactly
| correct.
|
| I think it's worth distinguishing between "I can't tell
| what this is about from the title, because it's clickbait"
| and "I can't tell what this is about from the title,
| because I happen not to be familiar with the subject
| matter". This is the second of those, not the first.
|
| (For the avoidance of doubt, I am _not in the least_
| suggesting that there 's anything wrong with happening not
| to be familiar with the subject matter.)
| CyberDildonics wrote:
| _hat 's no different from a title like "Improving
| Kubernetes" or "Riemann Hypothesis proved"_
|
| It's completely different because there is no context, so
| it could be about anything, especially on a general
| technology 'news' site.
|
| "Riemann Hypothesis" is going not ambiguous and neither
| is anything with "Kubernetes" in the name. A generic
| sentence with a generic first name is. I think this is
| obvious to most people.
| quesera wrote:
| HN is not a technology site. Not exclusively, anyway.
| Some days not even primarily! HN is an aggregator, so we
| pluck articles from varied contexts all the time.
| "Intellectual curiosity".
|
| But "Miss Julie" has exactly as much inherent context as
| "Riemann Hypothesis", or "Kubernetes". In all cases, a
| web search will return, as the first result, the correct
| reference.
|
| If we took a random sampling of people off the street,
| I'd be curious to see how many would recognize Miss Julie
| vs the other two. I lean toward more for Miss Julie!
|
| Anyway, what's a better title? "The Real Miss Julie
| (being a character in an eponymous 1888 play by Swedish
| playwright August Strindberg)"?
| CyberDildonics wrote:
| _" Miss Julie" has exactly as much inherent context as
| "Riemann Hypothesis", or "Kubernetes"_
|
| No it doesn't. Let's think super hard. "Miss Julie" could
| be anyone named Julie. What else would "Riemann
| Hypothesis" or "Kubernetes" mean?
|
| _If we took a random sampling of people off the street,_
|
| This isn't 'the street', it's a tech website.
|
| _Anyway, what 's a better title? "The Real Miss Julie
| (being a character in an eponymous 1888 play by Swedish
| playwright August Strindberg)"?_
|
| Yeah, that's much better, there is actual information and
| context.
| pvg wrote:
| Your interpretation of HN's title conventions is
| inaccurate, titles are not required to have 'context' and
| that alone does not make them clickbait. That's never
| been a thing - it might not be to your taste but your
| 'pipeline' is just plum wrong, e.g. https://hn.algolia.co
| m/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
| quesera wrote:
| Bad examples. Anyone named Riemann might hypothesize on
| any subject. And Kubernetes is a word in Ancient Greek.
|
| I had a Natural History professor in college named
| Riemann. He was a Darwinist, the irony! And I've met
| Greek scholars in the same venue.
|
| At some point, you just have to say "My liberal arts
| education was cut short before we got to 19th C
| Scandinavian playwrights". It's fine. You're in excellent
| company.
|
| (At the risk of offending the canon, I have to say that I
| really did not enjoy Strindberg, and although I
| acknowledge the cultural significance, I would happily
| exchange those hours for one jelly doughnut.)
| begueradj wrote:
| Amazing personage. Sad she killed herself.
|
| > Her parents were well educated but lacked money.
|
| I do not understand this because because the more we go back in
| history, the more likely only rich people have access to
| education (well, with miraculous exceptions such as Michael
| Faraday)
| dalore wrote:
| You can be rich, get an education, and then lose the money but
| not the education.
| hinkley wrote:
| Or spend all your money on education and not profit by it.
| Still in fashion today.
| bombcar wrote:
| It depends on what you think "rich" is - it changes over time
| and can mean anything from "middle class" to "filthy rich".
|
| It was very common in the 1800s for children of well-off
| parents to get educated, but then not be well-off themselves
| (for any number of reasons, including moving to "New World").
| zchwyng wrote:
| Is there anything like Hacker News for literature?
| jyunwai wrote:
| For finding interesting articles, you can try Arts & Letters
| Daily: https://www.aldaily.com. Literary Hub also publishes a
| daily newsletter that includes some external links to articles
| by other publications: https://lithub.com/
|
| Another way to find readings is by subscribing to various
| literary magazines and journals. Examples include Granta, The
| Paris Review, n+1, Ploughshares, The Kenyon Review, The
| Hedgehog Review, The New Yorker, The London Review of Books,
| The Times Literary Supplement, and many others.
|
| For forum discussions, there unfortunately aren't too many
| options. You can try the following forums on Reddit:
| r/literature, r/TrueLit, and r/AskLiteraryStudies. GoodReads
| also has online discussion groups. An alternative approach is
| to find or create an in-person or online book club.
| pvg wrote:
| HN is a reasonably decent site for literature related stuff so
| if you find anything good in a more specialized place, you can
| also post it to HN.
| emmelaich wrote:
| "stole" it or gave her immortality?
|
| The play has been performed every year somewhere in the world
| since.
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