[HN Gopher] CEO of data privacy company Onerep.com founded dozen...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       CEO of data privacy company Onerep.com founded dozens of people-
       search firms
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 563 points
       Date   : 2024-03-14 21:17 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (krebsonsecurity.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (krebsonsecurity.com)
        
       | actualwitch wrote:
       | Apparently it is also the same service that Mozilla Monitor uses,
       | as per ToS. Big yikes.
       | 
       | https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/legal/terms/subscription...
        
         | Dalewyn wrote:
         | Considering how much Firefox phones home, I daresay Microsoft
         | and Google are more private than Mozilla because they're at
         | least god damn honest about their practices.
        
           | lagrange77 wrote:
           | God damn honest is maybe slightly exaggerated.
        
           | actualwitch wrote:
           | > Microsoft and Google are more private than Mozilla
           | 
           | Having used an app firewall, I have determined this to be
           | false.
        
           | LegibleCrimson wrote:
           | I don't understand the logic. They're more private for
           | admitting that they don't respect your privacy?
        
             | Dalewyn wrote:
             | Microsoft and Google don't even try to hide the fact they
             | will siphon your data, whether you like it or not. You can
             | turn off some of the egregious siphoning, but that's about
             | it.
             | 
             | Mozilla meanwhile claims to be the champion of digital
             | privacy, marketing Firefox as _the_ private browser of
             | choice along with a host of ostensibly privacy products
             | such as VPN, all the while also siphoning data. Turning it
             | _all_ off requires digging deep into about:config.
             | 
             | One group is honest (or at least relatively more so) about
             | what they do. The other entity is a pathological liar led
             | by a queen on Google's leash for controlled opposition
             | purposes. As such, I daresay Microsoft and Google are more
             | private than Mozilla because you know what you sign up for.
        
               | rrix2 wrote:
               | > The other entity is a pathological liar led by a queen
               | on Google's leash for controlled opposition purposes
               | 
               | Oh come on, Baker was around since the Netscape days. You
               | just don't like her cause she was a Suit, and that's
               | fine. But except for a bunch of engineers Netscape had a
               | bunch of Suits. It's not some conspiracy that a Suit is
               | still running things.
        
               | LegibleCrimson wrote:
               | I don't think that's what the word "private" means. It's
               | not the same thing as "honest".
               | 
               | Compare the data. Mozilla may be less honest than Google
               | and Microsoft (a premise I also disagree with), but they
               | are demonstrably harvesting much less data.
        
               | st3fan wrote:
               | "siphoning data" is a pretty bold claim. you can't just
               | type those words without being very specific.
        
               | JonChesterfield wrote:
               | For Google and Microsoft? That's literally their business
               | model.
        
               | reciprocity wrote:
               | This is ridiculous. Firefox doesn't beat around the bush
               | with telemetry and makes this clear when you install a
               | new copy of it to your machine. It also does not require
               | "messing around in about:config", this option is
               | presented to the user in Settings, in plainly stated
               | language and in a central location (unlike other
               | browsers, particularly Edge, and Chrome, with privacy
               | related settings in 40 different drop down menus).
        
           | charcircuit wrote:
           | The amount of "phoning home" is not correlated to how bad an
           | app is for the user's privacy.
        
         | WhatsName wrote:
         | That is probably the bigger story right here. Not trusting
         | scammy businesses is easy. Getting fooled by big name like
         | Mozilla a different story.
        
           | actualwitch wrote:
           | They should have definitely done a more thorough due
           | diligence before partnering with them.
        
           | LoganDark wrote:
           | Mozilla has never been trustworthy. The Mozilla Foundation is
           | probably what most people are confusing it for, the nonprofit
           | that actually cares, but Mozilla the corporation just wants
           | money.
        
             | mozempthrowaway wrote:
             | You're partly right. MoCo only cares about money. MoFo
             | though is/was Mitchell's political slush fund. TBD how
             | things will shake out once there is a permanent CEO but
             | Mitchell is remaining chair of the foundation. She's also
             | got really deep ties to how MoCo is funded (google) so it's
             | likely the new CEO will be her puppet.
        
         | apimade wrote:
         | In my opinion, this is a failure of due diligence on behalf of
         | the Mozilla Corporation. I'm sure their legal team is jumping
         | into incident response mode right now.
         | 
         | I think this is one of the problems of organisations not doing
         | anything themselves, and offloading responsibility and
         | liability to both external partners.
         | 
         | If you trusted Mozilla Monitor with your personal data, their
         | legal contact information is listed on their terms page:
         | https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/legal/terms/subscription...
         | 
         | The same terms page you agreed to which both limited their
         | liability to $500, and granted them indemnification from
         | liability.
        
       | DANmode wrote:
       | Now do DuckDuckGo!
        
         | rexreed wrote:
         | Tell me more
        
           | DANmode wrote:
           | Gabriel Weinberg, DDG's solo-founder, previously co-founded
           | NamesDatabase, acquired in 2006.
        
       | alexnewman wrote:
       | sigh, i never trusted these sites and it never achieved anything
       | for me.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | One redeeming thing about the monetization of the Internet is
         | that these deep web people search sites are generally not free
         | any longer. There was a time when, for free, you could
         | basically search a person who didn't have an especially common
         | name with maybe a couple for tidbits about them and could you
         | find a huge part of their life history and, of course, info
         | like birthdays.
        
       | carimura wrote:
       | in the same category of "Best of the Internet", my favorite are
       | the sites that claim every person on the planet has an "arrest
       | record found" and you can see those records for $49. Or if you're
       | that person, pay us $99 to remove it.
        
         | fnordpiglet wrote:
         | Well in the US we are on track for that to be true.
         | 
         | But seriously - trading both sides (or, selling protection, as
         | the case may be) is quite a profitable business model.
        
       | wly_cdgr wrote:
       | Takes one to know one!
        
       | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
       | Sell the disease, and then sell the cure. Capitalism at its
       | finest!
        
         | jval43 wrote:
         | _rent_ the cure. FTFY.
        
           | geraldhh wrote:
           | big pharma entered the chat
        
       | samstave wrote:
       | So on a serious note, we were discussing this in another thread
       | about:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39698546
       | 
       | and using that to automate the unsub from trackers:
       | 
       | -->
       | 
       | This really needs to be used to make a tool to automate all the
       | "delete my data" requests and have users map out deleting their
       | data/PII etc from data brokers to a git something and people can
       | submit the recipes to delete your personal data.
       | 
       | I just did so on one of the more terrible ones yesterday - and
       | the dark pattern was it would put you in captcha-loops... and
       | youd have to reload/retry several times before stopped asking you
       | firehydrant bus traffic motorcycle crosswalk over and over.
       | 
       | but to save unsub/delete me scripts with this would be nifty.
       | 
       | A recipe bounty would be neat - for example - Optery found me in
       | more PII dbs than I expected - and it would be cool for people to
       | see which brokers they are found in and there is a bounty list
       | for all the brokers people are finding for someone to create a
       | Delete-Me for each thing, so that one hopefully has the help of
       | many to navigate the minefield of dark patterns in such.
        
         | akira2501 wrote:
         | Your data is sitting in an unencrypted excel spreadsheet
         | somewhere as it moves between entities. Good luck.
         | 
         | Your best bet is what the government minister mentioned
         | elsewhere in this thread did. Generate noise. So much noise
         | that none of your "PII" is even remotely accurate.
         | 
         | You can't hide, but you can paint an incredibly inaccurate
         | picture.
        
           | imiric wrote:
           | > You can't hide, but you can paint an incredibly inaccurate
           | picture.
           | 
           | How do you reasonably do this? You would have to spend an
           | incredible amount of effort creating fake data everywhere,
           | without having any clue if what you're doing is even working.
           | With new AI tools and technologies it's likely that someone
           | with enough resources and motivation would be able to filter
           | out the signal from the noise anyway.
           | 
           | I currently lean towards just minimizing my digital
           | footprint, and carefully choosing the hardware and software I
           | use. It still takes a lot of effort and sacrifice, and I
           | don't expect this method to be foolproof, but at least it's
           | reasonably manageable. At some point you do have to accept
           | that absolute privacy is impossible in the modern world, even
           | if you shun all technology.
        
             | NSMutableSet wrote:
             | >How do you reasonably do this? You would have to spend an
             | incredible amount of effort creating fake data everywhere,
             | without having any clue if what you're doing is even
             | working. With new AI tools and technologies
             | 
             | You answered your own question.
        
               | imiric wrote:
               | Not really. AI wasn't an option until very recently. How
               | was this managed before?
               | 
               | And even with AI, it would take a considerable amount of
               | effort to flood all public channels with fake data. Do
               | you do this via APIs for every service? Do you generate
               | image and video as well? You would still have no idea
               | whether your efforts are actually working.
               | 
               | Not to mention that using this approach contributes noise
               | to an already noisy medium. Your fight with an imaginary
               | enemy worsens the online experience for everyone else. We
               | have enough junk on the internet as it is.
        
               | mrguyorama wrote:
               | >How was this managed before?
               | 
               | By being rich enough to hire dedicated companies who
               | provide this service. Reputation management it is
               | sometimes called.
        
             | mdiesel wrote:
             | Use a different birthday for every service you sign up to,
             | especially the ones like "restaurant wants you to enter
             | details to use their wifi", same for other details that
             | they don't need in order to offer you a service.
        
       | anigbrowl wrote:
       | You see this a lot these days (though I suppose it's just more
       | visible now). Another example is people selling political
       | t-shirts (many offensive or obnoxious) to both sides of a
       | partisan divide.
        
         | ummonk wrote:
         | I don't think that's bad unless the seller claims to be
         | representing the causes they're selling for.
        
           | anigbrowl wrote:
           | They do via their advertising copy, which strongly implies
           | it. The productization of opinion is a Bad Thing in my view,
           | for the simple reason that it becomes profitable to stoke
           | conflict and commercial entities are therefore incentivized
           | to do so.
        
             | hermitdev wrote:
             | You think this is bad? Wait until you see what the "news"
             | media does!
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | In the US, I feel like I only see one side buying merchandise.
         | Especially offensive and obnoxious merchandise.
        
           | akira2501 wrote:
           | A few seconds worth of work reveals how false this is.
           | Perhaps it's just that you find one type of merchandise
           | offensive but find the other type pleasant. Perhaps this open
           | bias is coloring your perceptions?
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | I'm mid 30s, and I don't recall anytime other than the last
             | 7 years in which I saw people wearing stuff that came
             | anywhere close to "Fuck <president>". Or chanting it at
             | random non political sporting events with families with
             | children in attendance.
             | 
             | And I don't see the other party doing anything equivalent,
             | from giant flags on pickup trucks, to roadside merchandise
             | stalls, to pick up truck convoys that harass and bully
             | other candidates on the road...
        
               | vkou wrote:
               | Don't forget people modding their trucks to roll coal.
               | 
               | I guess the liberal equivalent is driving a Prius or
               | something. Both sides, right..?
        
           | rig666 wrote:
           | I'm pretty certain that the other side of your political
           | leaning would say the same thing about your party.
           | 
           | Ask anyone about there political merchandise and they will
           | never see it as just "merch" but as a fundamental truth that
           | is pivotal to there way of life they they feel is being
           | threatened. It's much like calling someone's religious
           | garments or iconography just merchandise and is a very closed
           | minded point of view.
        
           | EdwardDiego wrote:
           | Yeah nah, that's some sweet Dark Brandon merch out there.
           | 
           | Guarantee someone's already selling some Jacked Up Joe merch
           | already.
           | 
           | There's always someone selling merch though, a few years back
           | a rather famous/infamous politician in NZ, Winston Peters,
           | came out of left field to win a by-election in the electorate
           | of Northland that the ruling National party government
           | expected to win easy, the same party that had snubbed his
           | offers to work together.
           | 
           | So people started selling "King in the North" t-shirts with
           | ol Winnie photoshopped onto Jon Snow. I, being honest, nearly
           | bought one, because you had to admire his schtick.
           | 
           | So yeah, there's always merch.
           | 
           | But, AFAIK, at least no-one is selling Joe Biden fan art NFTs
           | yet. It's like a double grift.
           | 
           | And obviously Trump loves the merch far more because he gets
           | a cut.
        
             | mr_toad wrote:
             | Winnie didn't show up a few years ago, he was around in the
             | 90's. He's like a comic book villain that the writers keep
             | reincarnating.
        
         | greggsy wrote:
         | Elvis' manager did this with 'I hate elvis badges'.
         | 
         | It's not quite comparable though - this is deliberately
         | deceiving a market into acquiring a service they didn't need,
         | which is basically racketeering.
        
         | DoodahMan wrote:
         | that merch spam is so damn prevalent on Twitter right now! with
         | hyperpartisanship and emotions so high i often wonder what the
         | profits are like..
        
       | j-bos wrote:
       | This kind of thing feels better left to trusted 1st parties,
       | oneself. Link to a list of data broker opt out
       | methods:https://github.com/yaelwrites/Big-Ass-Data-Broker-Opt-
       | Out-Li...
        
         | ugh123 wrote:
         | Great list!
         | 
         | My first thought was: "why stick all this info in a readme and
         | not some nice json list I could scrape".
         | 
         | I then thought: "maybe I can just have my AI friend scan the
         | readme and do all the opt-out work for me"
        
         | emmanueloga_ wrote:
         | has anyone tried the service advertised by the author of the
         | list? Looks interesting / useful. [1]
         | 
         | --
         | 
         | 1: https://securityplanner.consumerreports.org/
        
         | dheera wrote:
         | I used Onerep until I was told it was shady. I now use Optery
         | (https://www.optery.com/) which is a YC company. I'd love to
         | hear if there are any issues with it.
         | 
         | The problem is there are 200+ data brokers out there and I
         | don't have time to deal with that many.
        
           | crispyambulance wrote:
           | Yeah, I saw when they announced on here, I think.
           | 
           | One question: Do you know if they pay the data brokers a
           | percentage?
        
             | dheera wrote:
             | I have no idea. I hope not.
             | 
             | They submit opt-out removals though, so one would think
             | that if they paid the data broker they would not have to go
             | through that trouble?
        
           | berniedurfee wrote:
           | Why is it monthly? What happens if you don't renew?
        
             | dheera wrote:
             | Yeah I have the same concern. Are there any better options,
             | short of hiring a human secretary, which I don't have the
             | money for?
             | 
             | My first priority is not having my personal info listed on
             | the internet; ethics of where my money is going is second.
        
         | crispyambulance wrote:
         | Yeah, I did this, following one of the guides (possibly the one
         | linked in the parent). It definitely worked with the worst of
         | these bottom-feeders: mylife.com
         | 
         | It involved phone call to an Indian call-center. While
         | remaining polite (not easy) but persistent, I had to listen to
         | multiple dumb pitches about their "services". I stuck with it
         | and in the end they removed my name but indicated it "may" come
         | back.
         | 
         | That was in 2018. My name no longer appears when searching
         | their website. I do, however, get MULTIPLE garbage emails per
         | day from mylife indicating "changes" about my profile and that
         | of my family and neighbors.
         | 
         | I have avoided dealing with 3rd parties for this stuff. In
         | addition to the fact that they may, as Krebs indicated,
         | racketeer with the scummy brokers there's ALSO another concern:
         | Some of them PAY the data brokers a percentage of the fees they
         | collect to remove names. The last thing I want is for these
         | bastards to get any money for their activities.
         | 
         | BTW, the founder and CEO of Mylife.com is Jeffrey Tinsley. He
         | appears to have made quite a fortune doing this data-broker
         | shit.
        
       | j-bos wrote:
       | Indusrty connections aside, it's not a good look that thaf the
       | CEO of a privacy company did not register domains with some form
       | of Whois privacy.
        
         | SkyPuncher wrote:
         | Why? I don't understand this at all?
         | 
         | It's largely unnecessary for corporate owned domains. You know
         | who owns it from the website they publish.
        
         | altairprime wrote:
         | Some TLDs prohibit Whois privacy altogether; this stance isn't
         | maintainable globally.
        
       | omnimike wrote:
       | I can't give specifics, I know someone who had to deal with
       | "delete me" requests from these "privacy" companies. The privacy
       | company would literally take your personal info (name, email),
       | and _email it to every company they could think of_ asking the
       | company to delete your account _even if you didn't have one_.
        
         | imiric wrote:
         | I had a suspicion these services actually do more harm than
         | good, even if they're well intentioned and not actively running
         | a data collection scheme.
         | 
         | But this is really a chicken-egg situation. How do you tell
         | companies to delete your information without telling them what
         | identifies your information? It's in these companies' interest
         | to make this as difficult as possible, so a solution based on
         | data hashes is highly unlikely to appear out of their good will
         | alone. This requires strict regulation and high fines.
         | 
         | There's also the issue of proving ownership of the data
         | requested for deletion. Even in the EU with the GDPR, which is
         | arguably the most progressive data privacy regulation we have,
         | companies routinely violate this by requesting even more
         | personal information from the requester.
        
           | letitbeirie wrote:
           | > actually do more harm than good
           | 
           | I've wondered about this too.
           | 
           | I have a common enough name that about 2/3 of the info data
           | brokers have on me is garbage.
           | 
           | If every data broker could be relied on to faithfully delete
           | my info I would sign up for Optery or Incogni today. I don't,
           | because if even one of those 2/3 is a bad actor I'm just
           | expending effort to clean up _their_ data.
           | 
           | Specifically, the data I don't want them to have.
        
           | dpkirchner wrote:
           | Ideally a regulator would intervene, demanding that the data
           | provider prove that each person in their database has
           | explicitly opted in. That should be really easy for these
           | companies -- it's just another record to include in our
           | files. If they can't prove it, they must delete all related
           | data.
        
             | notclive wrote:
             | What does proof look like?
             | 
             | On past projects we've recorded the time the user submitted
             | a from (with a checked consent checkbox), but this doens't
             | feel like rigorous proof.
        
               | dpkirchner wrote:
               | A scanned signature would work, I think, on a form mailed
               | in by the user. The form would need to be clearly
               | identified as coming from the data broker but could be
               | provided by the company ultimately seeking your data.
        
             | hirsin wrote:
             | And when they autofill that value with 1, because they
             | obviously got all of that data legitimately? Will consumers
             | be asked to prove a negative?
             | 
             | Even test cases will run into data sharing issues.
        
               | bryanrasmussen wrote:
               | >And when they autofill that value with 1,
               | 
               | amazingly enough the law is more clever than programmers
               | assume it is, and the clever dodges programmers come up
               | with tend to be seen through and just lead to jail time.
               | 
               | Prime Exhibit - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser
        
               | 20after4 wrote:
               | I don't understand how Hans Reiser is an example of this.
               | He was convicted of murder and nothing about his case
               | (that I could find) seems to indicate that he used
               | "clever dodges" to skirt the law.
        
               | bryanrasmussen wrote:
               | if one followed the case at the time Reiser seemed very
               | much the stereotype of the really superclever person who
               | figured they were smarter than all those dumb folks who
               | were never going to catch him and it all fell apart real
               | quick.
               | 
               | Then when it fell apart he dropped back to arguing he
               | just looked guilty because he was too smart to look
               | innocent or something
               | https://yro.slashdot.org/story/08/02/23/2218256/hans-
               | reiser-...
               | 
               | https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2010/08/02/review-from-a-
               | report... >He thought he was smarter than everyone else,
               | but ultimately he was not
        
               | 20after4 wrote:
               | I see what you mean. There is some nuance to that which
               | wasn't captured in the Wikipedia article or my general
               | awareness of the details about the case.
        
             | databroken wrote:
             | Why not just outlaw data brokers entirely?
        
               | mk89 wrote:
               | Because they need them for their stupid election
               | campaigns, surveys and crap like that.
        
             | planede wrote:
             | Ah, the evil bit.
        
           | godelski wrote:
           | My impression is that it depends what company you use. I
           | don't really trust them but at the same time, there are a lot
           | of other companies. All I can really say is that Optery will
           | give you a free report with very minimal information and on a
           | test they dug up far more information that I provided (the
           | minimum).
           | 
           | Given that these companies, like Incogni and DeleteMe, are
           | now sponsoring big time YouTubers I'd imagine they are soon
           | going to get a much closer look. At minimum, they are making
           | far more people aware of the situation and data out there.
           | Even though many of the VPNs fall far short of the promises,
           | it is setting a strong signal that people care about privacy
           | and entering the public lexicon is the first step. I hope
           | these can be a catalyst towards more state or federal privacy
           | protection.
        
         | tlogan wrote:
         | When you use these 'delete me' services to remove your
         | information from a platform like Dropbox, there's a hidden
         | catch. These services are often linked to companies that trade
         | in email addresses. By submitting your email for deletion, you
         | might unwittingly end up having it sold to marketers or data
         | brokers, potentially leading to even more spam and unwanted
         | contacts. Or maybe nice target ads ... depending who bought
         | your email address
        
         | EasyMark wrote:
         | Devil's advocate here, n=1 is just a data point is rarely the
         | whole story. I would assume, but obviously I could be wrong,
         | that the legit ones actually can check if your info exists in a
         | company before they send a take down request. I have no proof
         | of that but it's probably nearly as good as n=1.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | It's like the old days of Ironport. Ironport built a rack-mount
       | spam filtering appliance for business. They also built a rack-
       | mount spam-sending appliance for business. That blew their
       | reputation.
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure Ironport getting bought by Cisco and then Cisco
         | letting their product rot while simultaneously jacking up
         | prices blew Ironport's reputation. They were excellent
         | appliances before the acquisition.
        
       | SteveGerencser wrote:
       | A not-so-secret dirty little secret is that many of the
       | reputation management agencies also own many of the public
       | records websites that publish mug shots, court records, and so
       | on. When you hire them to remove that information from the
       | internet it puts you into a cycle of being removed from one or
       | two of their website and added to something else.
       | 
       | You end up in a never-ending game of whack-a-mole. Complete with
       | monthly fees.
        
         | greggsy wrote:
         | It's racketeering
        
           | Arrath wrote:
           | Watch these vultures frame it as clever vertical integration.
           | 
           | They control the supply (the sites with your info) and the
           | demand (the sites you can go through to request it get taken
           | down)
           | 
           | /s, obviously
        
           | maximinus_thrax wrote:
           | It's been going on for years https://www.theguardian.com/tech
           | nology/2018/jun/12/mugshot-e...
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | this seems to fit the definition.
           | 
           |  _In many cases, the potential problem may be caused by the
           | same party that offers to solve it, but that fact may be
           | concealed, with the intent to engender continual patronage._
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeering
        
             | throwaway2474 wrote:
             | See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldcoin
        
               | andirk wrote:
               | Lol those orbs! Oddly, Worldcoin's main exchange is
               | Binance which stopped doing business in USA so I couldn't
               | get a bag. Up almost 10x. Not bad for a sphere that
               | proves "personhood". With AI making actual people vs
               | machine created more difficult to discern, it may have
               | evermore applications.
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | From _" The Sopranos"_, Patsy and Burt failed extortion
           | attempt at "Starbucks",
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gsz7Gu6agA
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | I always loved that scene. The times, they are a-changin
        
         | _factor wrote:
         | Related, proofpoint is notorious for this as well. They will
         | block your mail server without cause, forcing you through their
         | process of delisting.
         | 
         | Pay and your problems magically go away. Proofpoint was
         | consistently the only block hit.
        
           | calvinmorrison wrote:
           | Tbf putting up cash is a great signal for 'not a spammer'.
        
             | _factor wrote:
             | True, but not the only method. You'd be surprised how many
             | spammers drop with greylisting enabled.
        
             | tedajax wrote:
             | Not really it's just a cost of doing business and if paying
             | that cost "legitimizes" you then the ROI is probably
             | significant.
        
               | _factor wrote:
               | Similar to a mafia coming to your small business and
               | telling you you need to pay to stay open, otherwise
               | they'll make sure you. Still just the cost of business?
               | Seems more like a power imbalance.
        
         | api wrote:
         | Prostitution is not the oldest profession. Racketeering
         | probably is. Probably started with the most basic form: giving
         | your food to Ugg to pay him to stop his brother Grug from
         | punching you.
        
           | friendlyHornet wrote:
           | Professional bullying
        
           | cellis wrote:
           | Aka taxation!
        
             | vkou wrote:
             | I'm pretty sure you can tell the difference between the
             | two.
        
               | 9991 wrote:
               | Banditry is when the baddies drop by periodically to
               | demand a portion of your labor on threat of violence.
               | Government is when they don't leave.
        
               | EasyMark wrote:
               | the last guy who stole an Amazon box off my porch didn't
               | put up a school for my kids, the road in front of my
               | house, help the homeless guy I gave my second burger to
               | the other day get out of the cold, make sure the water
               | out of my tap didn't kill me, etc
        
               | yMEyUyNE1 wrote:
               | Yeah, there is a huge difference between opportunist
               | petty thiefs and organized crime bosses.
        
               | Dudhbbh3343 wrote:
               | Many large drug cartels pay for schools, give out food to
               | the poor, and control some forms of crime to increase
               | public support or at least prevent their protest.
               | 
               | Once organized crime gets big enough, it's really
               | difficult to distinguish from a weak government.
        
               | bryanrasmussen wrote:
               | Sure and many feudal warlords grew the same way but at
               | some point the Castle decayed away and became a tourist
               | destination and what was left behind was the community
               | and governance.
               | 
               | Once organized crime gets really big, it stops being
               | crime and persists on organization alone.
        
               | Dudhbbh3343 wrote:
               | I agree, but I would argue that the label of "crime" is
               | mostly semantics. The violence (or at least the threat of
               | violence) of the crimes still persists, but whoever is
               | the most powerful group gets to change the label of their
               | violence from "crime" to "law enforcement".
        
               | marcosdumay wrote:
               | We call those "paragovernamental organizations", for
               | obvious reasons.
               | 
               | If they get too powerful, we just drop the "para" on that
               | name.
        
               | 9991 wrote:
               | Of course, he left.
        
               | mr_toad wrote:
               | > I'm pretty sure you can tell the difference between the
               | two.
               | 
               | Paying money so you don't get roughed up looks pretty
               | much the same whether it's a bandit or a king doing it.
        
               | vkou wrote:
               | Here in the US there aren't a lot of kings, but if you
               | have the fortune of living in a commonwealth nation,
               | you're free to get rid of yours.
               | 
               | Unless you're in the UK, though, King Charles is not
               | exactly asking for anything from you.
        
         | patcon wrote:
         | Isn't this just a white-hat/black-hat hacker dynamic, except in
         | this case the latter is legal?
        
           | ironmagma wrote:
           | Well, both hats ostensibly are at least doing real work
           | (finding vulnerabilities).
        
         | vmfunction wrote:
         | The lesson for the modern ago. Don't put stuff into digital
         | form if you want privacy!
         | 
         | Some places don't allow use of smart phone. They actually ask
         | you check your phone into a coat check type thing at door! One
         | journalist friend often leaves the smart phone at home.
        
           | philjohn wrote:
           | More theatre performances are doing this now.
           | 
           | Cabaret at the Kit Kat club in London places a sticker over
           | any camera lens. The Burnt City, an immersive theatrical
           | experience, makes you place your phone in a pouch that is
           | then sealed with a tamper evident fastening before you enter
           | the venue.
        
           | jojobas wrote:
           | This lesson can't be bashed into children enough.
        
           | noir_lord wrote:
           | Never did.
           | 
           | It wasn't paranoia it was a healthy dose of "if this is
           | possible, someone is doing it"
           | 
           | Turned out they in fact were doing it.
        
             | mrguyorama wrote:
             | More like : If it is not explicitly illegal and
             | _aggressively enforced by someone_ , a business will
             | attempt it, regardless of whether it makes money or not.
             | 
             | Everything else is fair game apparently.
        
           | sunnybeetroot wrote:
           | This sets a terrible precedent. For most, a phone is all or a
           | combination of; house keys, car keys, bank cards, medical
           | records, photo albums, etc. Giving all that up to a stranger
           | (albeit behind a passcode) is a step backwards in security
           | and privacy. An alternative that I have witnessed is places
           | place your phone in a lockable bag that you then carry with
           | you. They unlock the bag when you exit.
        
         | weedfire wrote:
         | Beyond about 150 people (and sometimes well below that number)
         | reputation ceases to be an even loose correlate of character
         | and becomes, instead, a platform through which the influential
         | extort the rest in order to stay on top.
        
         | sonicanatidae wrote:
         | That sounds like credit bureaus.
         | 
         | You know, those entities that hoover up any and all info on
         | you, that you cannot opt out of, maintain information whether
         | its accurate or not and refuse to delete obviously erroneous
         | data, then release it *all* to the world by being extremely
         | poor stewards of said data, then charging you for credit
         | monitoring for the rest of your life, since your _immutable_
         | info just got shared with assholes.
         | 
         | Guess who owns most/all of the credit monitoring entities?
         | 
         | Edit: typo...words are hard.
        
           | ragestorm wrote:
           | Luckily you can mail them a permanent opt out for most of
           | that stuff. IIRC, it removes your name from the searchable
           | list of info 3rd parties use for marketing.
           | 
           | Additionally, if you haven't, freeze your credit at all
           | bureaus including LexisNexis.
        
             | sonicanatidae wrote:
             | I've frozen all of mine, because thanks to Equifax, I don't
             | have a choice.
             | 
             | I wish you good luck opting out. I'm not talking about what
             | the law says, I'm talking about how they act.
             | 
             | Technically, you can dispute incorrect info. What that
             | dispute amounts to is the bureau asking the entity if it's
             | accurate. No proof needed. If they say it's accurate, then
             | you're stuck with it, until you jump through many, many
             | more hoops.
        
       | omoikane wrote:
       | I wonder if there are reputation protection companies that try a
       | different strategy: for every user that requests their service,
       | prop up thousands of fake identities with the user's name, but
       | each with some inconsistent profile that are almost, but not
       | quite, entirely unlike the original user. So if someone search
       | for a person, their search results would be flooded with garbage.
       | 
       | Since it seems very difficult to try to get a leaked identity
       | removed, maybe try to hide a tree in the forest?
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | Reputation management companies do this. It's normally referred
         | to as "disinformation".
        
         | sangnoir wrote:
         | The former British prime minister executed a similar technique
         | to hide his scandal by releasing search-engine chaff. He had a
         | press interview where he claimed one of his hobbies was
         | painting miniature red buses, and the scandal he was hiding was
         | false and distateful ads on a (real) red bus as part of a
         | campaign for Brexit.
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | TIL:
           | 
           | > For example, the disaster surrounding London's new
           | Routemaster city buses disappeared into the depths of the web
           | after Johnson made completely nonsensical statements in the
           | media about building model buses from wine crates. Coverage
           | of these statements triggered a flood of search queries on
           | Google that displaced negative search queries and Google
           | Suggest results related to Boris Johnson.
           | 
           | > Research showed that before the wine crate buses interview,
           | 100% of Google Suggest and search results on page one that
           | were displayed in connection with Boris Johnson had negative
           | connotations. After the interview, it was only 20%.
           | 
           | > Additionally, when news broke that British Government
           | members had flouted Covid guidelines to meet for wine and
           | cheese during a 'work meeting', it was seized upon by the
           | British press as "partygate." Soon after, Johnson was quoted
           | in interview saying, "I don't work from home. The cheese will
           | distract you." As a result, negative coverage of the British
           | Government's party-gate incidents were glossed over by search
           | suggestions and results, and keywords with negative
           | connotations no longer appeared in Google Suggest prompts.
           | 
           | Source: https://blog.searchmetrics.com/us/cheese-wine-and-
           | whistles-m...
        
             | zarzavat wrote:
             | He is a well known proponent of the technique:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy
             | 
             | > There is one thing that is absolutely certain about
             | throwing a dead cat on the dining room table - and I don't
             | mean that people will be outraged, alarmed, disgusted. That
             | is true, but irrelevant. The key point, says my Australian
             | friend, is that everyone will shout, 'Jeez, mate, there's a
             | dead cat on the table!' In other words, they will be
             | talking about the dead cat - the thing you want them to
             | talk about - and they will not be talking about the issue
             | that has been causing you so much grief.
             | 
             | - Boris Johnson
        
               | mr_toad wrote:
               | Seems like a variation of starting a war to distract from
               | domestic issues.
        
               | Terr_ wrote:
               | "Wag the Dead Cat?"
               | 
               | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wag_the_Dog)
        
           | geraldhh wrote:
           | almost as if the public appreciated the diversion
        
       | szundi wrote:
       | Genius. Makes the reason of the demand for his company!
        
       | siva7 wrote:
       | You're fine if a search machine returns zero results about you.
       | Never put your personal information out in the wild. This
       | includes a linkedin profile. I haven't found a solution if you're
       | a business owner but even then try to limit exposure as much as
       | possible.
        
       | mozempthrowaway wrote:
       | Gentle reminder that Mozilla Monitor is just OneRep, albeit
       | marked up for Mozilla Corporation's profits (yes Mozilla is a for
       | profit, its foundation is not).
        
         | ufocia wrote:
         | Non-profit doesn't mean no profit.
        
           | st3fan wrote:
           | It is nuanced and not really well explained with a hot-take.
           | 
           | How about https://crscpa.com/blog/how-much-profit-can-a-
           | nonprofit-make...
        
       | frankhhhhhhhhh wrote:
       | Dirtbag.
        
       | srvmshr wrote:
       | Asking as a complete amateur, how do these people databases &
       | privacy companies work? They claim to get personal details,
       | family connections, social media content and even court records
       | etc for not-so-exhorbitant price ($30 per report as ballpark?)
       | 
       | Do they just scam people by compiling whatever is available on
       | search engines? In one or two cases, I have seen them at least
       | giving the house address or family member details right. So there
       | seems to be more at play.
        
         | cj wrote:
         | Even without using a paid service, if you know what state
         | someone lives in and can narrow it down to a few potential
         | counties, it's typically not that hard to find someone's
         | address by searching online property tax assessment records
         | which usually expose the full address of the property, the
         | owner's name, and the assessed value.
         | 
         | Same for court/criminal records, marriage records (in some
         | states), etc.
        
       | dheera wrote:
       | Worth a mention here -- there's a YC company that submits opt-out
       | requests and seems much less shady than Onerep to me:
       | 
       | https://www.optery.com/
       | 
       | (I'm just a user, not associated with them.)
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | Good bussiness. He has a duty for profit to his shareholders
       | yadda yadda yadda. Why even complain?
        
       | Pokerface777 wrote:
       | What's the best way to feed them fake data?
        
       | htrp wrote:
       | https://xkcd.com/250/ (Snopes)
       | 
       | There really is an XKCD for everything
        
       | blitzar wrote:
       | Founder, CEO & Cereal Entrepreneur gunna do what they do best.
        
       | docmars wrote:
       | I find it funny when things like these happen, while conspiracy
       | theorists get lambasted for calling out much less nefarious
       | schemes (with evidence), only to be proven right weeks or months
       | later when a "more official" source confirms it after gaslighting
       | them for that period in between.
        
       | zkid18 wrote:
       | A bit off-topic, could someone explain how data brokers operate?
       | 
       | I've been involved in the development of B2B SaaS solutions, and
       | there are a few providers, such as ZoomInfo, Apollo, and
       | Clearbit, that greatly assist the sales team in gaining a deeper
       | understanding of customers. It seems that venture capitalists
       | love those businesses.
       | 
       | Has anyone attempted to create similar companies that offer Data
       | as a Service?
        
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