[HN Gopher] The Good Soldier Svejk (2018)
___________________________________________________________________
The Good Soldier Svejk (2018)
Author : palmfacehn
Score : 263 points
Date : 2024-03-14 11:23 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blogs.loc.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (blogs.loc.gov)
| hilbert42 wrote:
| Hasek's _The Good Soldier Svejk_ is an absolutely essential read,
| it has to be in the list of the top 100 books to read before one
| departs this planet!
|
| Not only is it hilariously funny it's also full of the
| tribulations of life and how the system--bureaucracies--here the
| army--lands one in absurd and unexpected situations.
|
| It's a great shame Hasek died so young (he was a great observer
| of human nature).
|
| Do yourself a real favor, read it or get an audio book.
| mooreds wrote:
| How does it compare to Catch-22?
| Lariscus wrote:
| Joseph Heller claimed he would have never written it had he
| never read The Good Soldier Svejk.
| mooreds wrote:
| Hmm. A quick Google didn't find that.
|
| From https://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/17/theater/newsandfeat
| ures/t...
|
| "Heller, who died in 1999, told various interviewers that
| Celine and Kafka were his most powerful influences and that
| "Svejk" was "just a funny book.""
| Zircom wrote:
| Found a quote, had to use the anglicized spelling though.
|
| https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2011/08/heller-201108
|
| "The Czech writer Arnost Lustig claimed that Heller had
| told him at a New York party for Milos Forman in the late
| 1960s that he couldn't have written Catch-22 without
| first reading Jaroslav Hasek's unfinished World War I
| satire, The Good Soldier Schweik. "
| malermeister wrote:
| Germanized, really.
| _visgean wrote:
| there are some references in catch-22 and its follow up
| Closing time.
| bee_rider wrote:
| I was really surprised by Closing Time. I forget all the
| details of it, but I remember finding it just
| relentlessly depressing. The only degree to which I
| thought it worked was, it really emphasized the extent to
| which we really don't need to know what happens to
| characters after the story is done, it is better if we
| just imagine they go on to have their lives.
| rightbyte wrote:
| I think if you like one, you like the other. I think the
| Svejk book have a more innocent tone and is less cynical. But
| I was way to young when I read them to have a "deep"
| understanding of the contexts.
| imjonse wrote:
| I found Catch-22 much more hilarious than Svejk.
| ufocia wrote:
| I thought Svejk was more available to a younger reader.
| However, like someone already mentioned, it has enough
| layers for a reader of almost any age to enjoy. I'd read
| them both.
| watwut wrote:
| It makes sense unlike Catch-22 that does not make sense.
| soperj wrote:
| it only makes sense once you've already read it once.
| sireat wrote:
| I thought Svejk to be much funnier.
|
| Rather I thought Catch-22 to be a so-so imitation of Svejk.
|
| Then again I've been re-reading Svejk since childhood.
|
| Similarly, how you can tell when Hasek dies before finishing
| Svejk and his friend takes over with the ending, the jokes
| just fall off a bit.
| red-iron-pine wrote:
| Catch-22 is funny during the read but after the end, and in
| reflection, is pretty dark.
|
| Svejk is generally funnier, IMO
| mcepl wrote:
| Svejk is too much slanted by the expectations of "just
| funny" and by (absolutely awesome, but too nice)
| illustrations by Josef Lada. When listening to the audio
| version of the book, I was shocked how actually horrific
| story it is. I have mentioned elsewhere in this thread a
| Czech literary historian (M. C. Putna) who called "The Good
| Solider Svejk" as "Kafka's 'Trial' by other means". I think
| he is quite correct.
| poloniculmov wrote:
| His short stories are also hilarious and in the same vein as
| Svejk's adventures.
| weinzierl wrote:
| I've enjoyed Svejk's adventures, but never read any Hasek's
| short stories. Can you recommend a particular one you like?
| mcepl wrote:
| Yes, they are only hilarious. Svejk on the other hand is in
| my opinion much more serious. One Czech literary critic call
| it even "Kafka by other means". Yes, Hasek was a satiric
| writer, so that's how he wrote, but Svejk is IMHO actually a
| serious book about the horror of a human being liquidated by
| the impersonal power of modern society.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| Svejk is what I call a "scalable" book. It works for readers of
| almost any level. The first time I read it I was maybe 8 years
| old and had a lot of fun, even though I completely missed most
| of the nuance.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| Very true, I wouldn't have recognized many of the nuances had
| I not had military training and having worked in government
| bureaucracies.
| lukan wrote:
| More examples of "scalable" books please?
| gumby wrote:
| The lord of the rings is a good one, especially if you skip
| the songs. Then it's simply an adventure story.
|
| The Sword in the Stone is pretty good in this regard. Apart
| from that first book (which is published as a standalone
| book) the entire Once and Future King is too complex for a
| child, I think (instead it would come off as boring and
| obscure).
|
| But in general almost any book a kid wants to try to read
| will be fine.
|
| Also: back in the day when small towns had a single cinema
| screen, movies would travel around as physical media and
| play for a week or two. So they had to be appropriate for
| anyone in town else the cinema owner wouldn't take them.
|
| My kid loved those Fred Astaire musicals. I do too. For him
| they were just fun. To me, many of them were quite racy and
| quite explicit! But all that just went over his head.
| tsc wrote:
| The Little Prince
| j_french wrote:
| My older brother gave me Animal Farm to read as a child, I
| enjoyed it as a (somewhat depressing) story about animals
| taking over a farm.
| HanClinto wrote:
| I was probably 7 or 8 my first time through Animal Farm.
| I cried so hard when Boxer died.
| willismichael wrote:
| My neighbor gave me a great tip: check out anything by
| Terry Pratchett that I can find in the youth fiction
| section of the library. My wife and I are reading them to
| children ages 9 - 16, and all of them are liking the books.
| jamonserrano wrote:
| I remember enjoying these as a child without understanding
| any of the subtext or satire:
|
| Jonathan Swift: Gulliver's Travels
|
| Umberto Eco: The Name of the Rose
|
| Bohumil Hrabal: Cutting it Short
|
| Antal Szerb: The Pendragon Legend
| HanClinto wrote:
| Young Adult fiction is my "go-to" place for this. Nearly
| anything that has won the Newberry Award is great for the
| whole family. Some standouts in my mind:
|
| * Island of the Blue Dolphins
|
| * Chronicles of Prydain (Book of Three, The Black Cauldron,
| etc)
|
| Chronicles of Narnia aren't Newberry winners, but are good
| regardless (if you don't mind the religious subtext).
|
| +1 for other people mentioning The Hobbit and Lord of the
| Rings.
|
| Our whole family has enjoyed classics like Pride and
| Prejudice and Dracula -- such books are called "classics"
| for a reason.
|
| Modern YA fiction has some very good books as well -- we
| all enjoyed Hole by Louis Sachar.
|
| Some good modern sci-fi too -- Project Hail Mary by Andy
| Weir was well received, as was Ender's Game.
|
| Brandon Sanderson's stuff is very good. Whole family
| enjoyed The Way of Kings and the books that follow.
|
| (For context, "whole family" is mix of genders, ages 10-15)
| lelanthran wrote:
| > More examples of "scalable" books please?
|
| In addition to what the other replies recommended, I read
| Tom Sharpe at a young age and enjoyed all of them with
| sometimes uncontrollable giggles.
|
| Start with Wilt, I think. Then maybe The Throwback.
| mrob wrote:
| The Wind in the Willows. As a child, I read it purely as an
| adventure story. Re-reading it as an adult, I realized it's
| actually two stories: one a eulogy to the British
| countryside, and the other a comedy about the self-
| inflicted troubles of Mr. Toad. The humor was lost on me as
| a child.
| gumby wrote:
| As a kid, I was terrified by Mr Toad and stopped reading
| the book because of him.
| croisillon wrote:
| the little Prince, i'd say
| smoldesu wrote:
| Every Gary Larson collection you can find.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| "The Little Prince"
| thesz wrote:
| Karel Capek: R.U.R.
|
| His short stories are beyond fascinating and adorable, BTW.
| One, for example, equates accounting to hunting and
| detective work.
|
| The Stars My Destination by Alfred Bester.
|
| Works of James Herriot.
| UncleSlacky wrote:
| Capek's "War With The Newts" is good too.
| Nition wrote:
| The Earthsea trilogy by Ursula Le Guin is another one
| (there are also books beyond the first three now, but
| they're more targeted at older readers).
| flipthefrog wrote:
| The Moomin books by Tove Jansson
| mcepl wrote:
| "The Little Prince" by Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Whatever
| age I read it, I am always surprised how much it deals with
| the actual problems I have.
| sigma5 wrote:
| what's the other books that are on your 100 books list to read
| before one departs this planet ?
| niccl wrote:
| Not the original commenter but I'd include:
|
| Vanity Fair by Thackeray
|
| Mr Johnson by Joyce Cary
|
| Lavengro and Romany Rye by George Borrow
|
| The Descent of Woman by Elaine Morgan
|
| Fluid Concepts and Creative Analogies by Douglas Hofstadter
| et al.
|
| Identity Crisis by Ben Elton
| scandox wrote:
| The audio version read by David Horovitch is incredible.
| KingOfCoders wrote:
| Loved watching Svejk films as a kid.
| weinzierl wrote:
| _" When the war is over, let's see each other_", said Svejk. _"
| You will find me every day after six o'clock in the 'U Kalicha'"_
|
| _" Then, see you after the war, at six o'clock in the evening."_
| Vodicka said.
|
| _" Better come at six-thirty to be safe if I'm late,"_ Svejk
| replied.
|
| https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:U_Kalicha_(Pra...
| chalst wrote:
| You've linked to a Wikimedia category of pictures. I assume
| this is not intended.
| romanhn wrote:
| It takes me, on mobile, to a picture of what looks to be the
| real-world "U Kalicha" establishment.
| projektfu wrote:
| From Mobile Wikipedia, always use the browser's share
| button to get the canonical URL.
|
| https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:U_Kalicha_(Prag
| u...
| bitsinthesky wrote:
| Wenn die Leute auseinandergehen, da sagen sie "Auf Wiedersehen"
| isolli wrote:
| Glad to see this book promoted here!
|
| However, having compared the French translation to the original
| in Czech, I have to warn French-language readers that the
| translation was atrocious. As in, completely making up words and
| sentences that were not in the original. (Unfortunately, I know
| nothing about translations into English, and cannot recommend a
| good one.)
|
| Interestingly, Milan Kundera wrote a book (in French) that I
| highly recommend [0]. He draws examples from many different
| artistic works to weave a fascinating story discussing to what
| extent we can or should stay faithful to the original intention
| of an artist or creator.
|
| [0]
| https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44382.Testaments_Betraye...
| isolli wrote:
| This prompted me to check, and the first translation in French
| was in fact the translation of a translation of a translation
| [1]. No wonder it strayed from the original!
|
| The English translation went through similar ordeals [2]. The
| more recent ones are presumably more faithful:
|
| > The first translation by Paul Selver was heavily abridged,
| reducing the novel to about two thirds of its original length.
| Selver's translation also bowdlerized the original text,
| omitting paragraphs and occasionally pages that may have seemed
| offensive; despite this he has been praised for preserving some
| of the tension in the work between Literary and Common Czech.
|
| [1]
| https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Aventures_du_brave_soldat_...
|
| [2]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Soldier_%C5%A0vejk#Tr...
| dmurray wrote:
| The second comment on the article - worth reading in itself -
| is signed by Svejk himself, with a detailed criticism of the
| Parrott translation, recommending instead a 2000 translation
| by Sadlon. Anyone else have insight on which translation I
| should read?
| bitsinthesky wrote:
| Sadlon sells books in parts, i read the first book of his
| translation. Thought it was good, but given the needing to
| buy multiple books and the ugly cover art, I'm happy with
| Penguin. If it is true Penguin is an inferior translation
| or too flowery, it still reads as a very entertaining book.
| lioeters wrote:
| From all the books I've read, the good soldier Svejk stands out
| as one of the most memorable characters. I love the style of the
| writing, how it shows the absurdity of bureaucracy, war, and
| society through the person of Svejk, perpetually drinking and
| getting into trouble, innocent like a dove and wise as a serpent,
| he always finds his way out of any predicament, while having his
| fun. He represents an aspect of the indomitable spirit of
| humanity and humor.
|
| The illustrations by Josef Lada are wonderful too, they are
| essential to the reading experience and imaginary world of the
| book.
| isolli wrote:
| Did you read it in Czech? Apparently, finding a good
| translation is a bit of a minefield.
| lioeters wrote:
| I read it in English, but some knowledge of Czech culture and
| geography (towns and Prague neighborhoods) added to the
| enjoyment of the book.
|
| The one I read was translated by Cecil Parrott (in 1973), but
| I learned there's a new translation (1997~) by a native Czech
| speaker: The Fateful Adventures of the Good Soldier Svejk
| During the World War, translated by Zdenek "Zenny" Sadlon, in
| three volumes.
| jiripospisil wrote:
| A classic. The movie versions are available on YouTube with
| English subtitles but it's not the same. A part of the charm of
| Svejk played by Rudolf Hrusinsky is the way he talks and that
| gets lost if you don't speak Czech.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI9OKaz6yQ0
| yread wrote:
| The czech audiobook read by Jan Werich
| https://youtu.be/JaNO4ZG3zn8?si=oc2YRdNurUNcX9LQ is also great!
| flipthefrog wrote:
| Removed for copyright reasons, it says. Theres also a 1950s
| puppet film version directed by Jiri Trnka
| jiripospisil wrote:
| Hah, some ahole must have reported it. It was working fine a
| few hours ago. Can you even claim copyright of a 70 years old
| movie? Oh well.
| arethuza wrote:
| I learned of The Good Soldier Svejk from Alexei Sayle's
| autobiography "Stalin ate my homework" - which I can _strongly_
| recommend, particularly the audiobook narrated by the author.
| pdimitar wrote:
| One of the very few books that literally had me rolling on the
| floor laughing -- not exaggerating for effect here, I have in
| fact fell from the sofa on the floor and started laughing until I
| wheezed and couldn't breathe. Especially the segment with the
| military preacher whom Svejk was an assistant of -- and when he
| had to get him home after he got dead-drunk. My gods, I can
| almost remember how much my tummy hurt back then!
|
| That being said, all the stuff about censorship and getting
| arrested for "treason" (basically for a political joke at the
| bar) hit too close to home for me, and I am from a former Soviet
| block country, and I found those pieces very depressing. Still, I
| went through all books -- several times -- and enjoyed them a
| lot. The author really captured a lot of absurdities very well.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| _"...had me rolling on the floor laughing... "_
|
| Same here, I was in tears I was laughing that much. I found it
| funny because I recognized those silly maddening situations
| from my own life. We all experience them but it takes a master
| like Hasek to remind us about how absurd they really are.
| avodonosov wrote:
| > all the stuff about censorship and getting arrested for
| "treason" (basically for a political joke at the bar) hit too
| close to home for me, and I am from a former Soviet block
| country, and I found those pieces very depressing.
|
| You may probably find it curious that Hashek ended up being a
| bolshevik and a red army commissar.
| pdimitar wrote:
| I would never endorse this but I also kind of understand:
| it's very easy to switch sides when you're seeing your own
| government face-plant all the time and never get anything
| meaningful done. That's one of the ways the ruling class
| wins: a new "promising" system gets promoted, it points at
| the mistakes of the current system and the people, tired of
| all the crap, end up voting for the new stuff, only to
| discover it's even worse... :(
|
| That has happened quite a lot in history, sadly (also I am
| aware that in the case of the USSR there was no voting
| involved, it was just a figure of speech).
| avodonosov wrote:
| In case of USSR the people were choosing sides of the civil
| war and fighting voluntarily - a more serious commitment
| than simply casting a ballot.
| FpUser wrote:
| Most of the people were not involved in fight. They were
| busy growing food for example. But sure the ones that
| actually fought did choose their sides voluntarily.
| Sometimes they flipped.
| dragandj wrote:
| In vast many cases they were either forcefully
| conscripted by whomever was holding power in the
| particular area, or were simply choosing to enter armies
| because they were very young people who lost everything
| and did not have many options. Do not also discount that
| during the post-revolution civil war, food shortages were
| the norm, and the place to eat is army.
| ihaveajob wrote:
| If it was anything like the Spanish Civil War, lots of
| people just happened to live in an area that was
| controlled by one or another side. Those who were
| committed to their cause probably did their best to
| escape or take arms. Most were simply recruited and
| complied to avoid further trouble. Both my grandfathers
| happened to live on the side they disagreed with when
| hostilities started, so they had no choice.
| duxup wrote:
| It's unfortunate but it's often the case when someone talks
| about a given ideal such as being critical of censorship,
| authoritarianism, etc. They often mean:
|
| "I don't like THAT censorship. Mine is fine."
| Anotheroneagain wrote:
| _That being said, all the stuff about censorship and getting
| arrested for "treason" (basically for a political joke at the
| bar)_
|
| I think you didn't get it right. The joke is that they _go out
| of their way_ to not say anything offensive, knowing that the
| situation is tense, but they get arrested anyway.
| pdimitar wrote:
| Strange that you're saying this because that's exactly how I
| understood it: people were extremely mindful of what they're
| saying but even with that you had "agents" in disguise who
| really stretched the definition of "treason", many times
| over, just to be able to do a few arrests daily. In the books
| it was also shown that the mere fact of singing along a song
| that praised their emperor was also grounds for being
| arrested (which was quite absurd because praising that guy
| was a requirement anyway).
| talkingtab wrote:
| One must wonder about the Czechs. There is the language for one
| thing. There is the resilience - Nazis, Communists and the Velvet
| Revolution. Then Closely Watched Trains, Zelary, Divided We Fall,
| The Unbearable Lightness of Being. And this. Maybe having an
| singular language does something?
| Toutouxc wrote:
| > There is the language for one thing.
|
| > having an singular language
|
| What's that?
| ufocia wrote:
| Czecho-Slovakia was a multicultural country with more than
| one language in common use. This was arguably one of the
| shortcomings that led to its WWII era capitulation.
| imp0cat wrote:
| First, he OP specifically mentions "the Czechs", as in the
| Czech part of Czechoslovakia.
|
| Second, languages had nothing to do with it. There was an
| idea that sacrificing a part of Czechoslovakia will be
| enough to keep Hitler at bay
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement).
| ufocia wrote:
| Which Czech part, Bohemia, Moravia, Czech Silesia, or
| ...? Was it the "regions with German-speaking majority"?
|
| Languages had everything to do with it. "Bohemia became a
| part of Czechoslovakia, defying claims of the German-
| speaking inhabitants that regions with German-speaking
| majority should be included in the Republic of German-
| Austria."
| imp0cat wrote:
| But German, the language, was spoken pretty much
| everywhere (thanks to the Austro-Hungarian legacy).
|
| The German-speaking inhabitants, that is a whole
| different story.
| rightbyte wrote:
| Shortcomings? What is up with these military strategic
| analysis that imply that Chechoslovakia could do anything
| but getting different degrees of crushed between Germany,
| Hungary and Poland?
| asveikau wrote:
| I've noticed an uptick in recent years of people who
| believe the multiculturalism is harmful to a society's
| survival. This is extremely popular with American right
| wingers who would like to limit immigration or segregate
| people by races.
|
| One of my favorite examples of a multi-ethnic state in
| Europe (kind of biased since I have some ancestry from
| there) is the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth. That lasted
| a good long while with a mix of Balts, West Slavs, and
| East Slavs.
| NeoTar wrote:
| Yeah - If singular means distinct, and even setting aside
| Slovak, then Czech is part of the West Slavic language family
| and my Polish-speaking partner says there is a degree of
| mutual intelligibility.
| imp0cat wrote:
| Yes, they sound very similar, but (because of historical
| reasons) the spelling is quite different (multiple letters
| in Polish vs accents/diacritics in Czech).
| ufocia wrote:
| You're whitewashing at least the WWII era. The Czecho-Slovak
| government capitulated pretty quickly after Germany's demands,
| ..., and the country was used to support Germany's was efforts.
| TBH, they did not receive a whole lot of support from their
| prior allies, to say the least, ahead of the capitulation.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Czechoslovak_Republic
|
| As an aside, hopefully the relative lack of support for Ukraine
| does not have similar outcomes. There are some significant
| similarities between the two.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| > TBH, they did not receive a whole lot of support from their
| prior allies, to say the least, ahead of the capitulation.
|
| The "support" Czechoslovakia received from the western allies
| was an order to capitulate to German demands.
|
| As a reminder, this was the situation in 1938: https://hostin
| g.photobucket.com/images/u314/erding/Cz_map_15...
|
| The situation was much more hopeless than e.g. Ukraine was/is
| in. The Czech part was almost completely surrounded by
| Germany (controlling Austria and Silesia). Slovak part had a
| long border with Nazi-allied Hungary. Poland was not friendly
| at the time (taking part in the partition). The only kinda
| friendly neighbor was the tiny sliver of border in the east
| with Romania.
|
| If the Czechoslovakia decided to fight, it would be accused
| of aggression by the western powers (who basically declared
| Germany is in the right in Munich).
| ufocia wrote:
| The claim of "participation" in the so called partition is
| inflammatory. You make it sound like Poland was a party to
| some kind of an agreement to dissolve Czechoslovakia, when
| there is no evidence of that, especially in retrospect.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_b
| o...
|
| I agree that the Czechoslovakian situation was less hopeful
| than that of Ukraine, at least for the moment.
| confidantlake wrote:
| This does not seem like a fair criticism or framing of the
| situation. Every country Germany occupied was used to support
| Germany's war efforts. The country had little choice but to
| surrender, they were hung out to dry by their allies.
|
| Despite this, they still resisted at great personal cost.
| Heydrich was assassinated in Prague by Czech resistance
| fighters. The reprisals were brutal, with thousands killed in
| response. My grandmother who is still alive lived through
| this time. Every day at school they announced the names of
| those executed by the Natzis in order to intimidate the
| populace.
| ufocia wrote:
| In my criticism I made a conscious effort to single out the
| Czechoslovak government (I should've probably narrowed it
| down to Benes and Hacha in particular), as opposed to the
| citizenry. Perhaps surprisingly, after the outbreak of
| WWII, Benes went on to be a leader of the resistance,
| though from exile.
| aba_cz wrote:
| That's no whitewashing. Not sure where you got this idea from
| but if you read the link to
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement you'd
| realize that what you wrote is completely incorrect and
| almost a lie. Czechia was not invited to that meeting and
| European superpowers decided that it should cede to Germany.
| Plus Germany invaded Czechia in 1939. Czechs would go to war
| and lost it in days (just look at the size and position) and
| would be a pariah in Europe if they didn't listen.
| ufocia wrote:
| "The Czechoslovak capitulation precipitated an outburst of
| national indignation. In demonstrations and rallies, Czechs
| and Slovaks called for a strong military government to
| defend the integrity of the state. A new cabinet, under
| General Jan Syrovy, was installed, and on 23 September
| 1938, a decree of general mobilization was issued. The
| Czechoslovak Army was modern, had an excellent system of
| frontier fortifications and was prepared to fight. The
| Soviet Union announced its willingness to come to
| Czechoslovakia's assistance. Benes, however, refused to go
| to war without the support of the Western powers."
| aba_cz wrote:
| There's no citation for this in Wiki and Soviet Union and
| Germany signed Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact not that long
| after. So this quote (and Soviet Union/Russia in general
| as it's obvious why they would "help") is really not
| trustworthy and not based on evidence.
| mikrl wrote:
| A large part of Svejk's humor comes from the multilingual
| nature of the Austro-Hungarian empire at that time.
|
| The common soldiers speak Czech amongst themselves, German to
| the commanding officers, and a drunken old Polish colonel
| butchers both languages while giving them a pep talk.
|
| There are also miscommunications with Hungarians and Tatars.
|
| Central Europe is heavily multicultural and multilingual, even
| in 1914, but there are still strong national identities;
| because of, not despite.
| yreg wrote:
| Some parts of it used to be more multicultural and
| multilingual than they are now.
|
| Bratislava was 36% German, 33% Slovak and 29% Hungarian in
| the 1919 census. Now it's ~90% Slovak.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| I think you're onto something. I don't speak Czech but I've
| been there a number of times and I know people who live there.
|
| When Hasek wrote Svejk the Czechs were surrounded and
| influenced by vastly different nations--the crumbling remnants
| of the Austro-Hungarian Empire--which they were part of--the
| Russian Empire and Germany--both of which were in chaos after
| WWI. Even today they're still surrounded but at least now
| they're an independent nation with their own language so
| perhaps it's not surprising what comes out of them is quite
| unique.
|
| It's quite some years since I saw _Closely Watched Trains_ with
| English subtitles and it had a huge impact on me. It 's one of
| those films that one cannot get out of one's mind for days. In
| its own understated way it's a great film and it's not
| surprising that it was a Czech production. Its ending upset me
| greatly because whilst its story was fiction, it reminded me of
| similar tragic scenarios that were played out for real many
| times during WWII (it seems to me one of the purposes of the
| film was to remind us of the fact).
|
| _BTW, when I first went to Czechoslovakia it was still under
| communist rule and the only practical (easiest) way to get from
| Vienna to Prague was by train from Franz-Josefs-Bahnhof and
| Emperor Franz Joseph Railway line. For some reason seeming
| known to the communists we had to use this single track line
| instead of the more modern dual track line via Bruno. I mention
| it because the Franz Joseph Railway was a once-in-a-lifetime
| experience to travel on, the track was in such terrible
| condition that one thought the train would derail any moment
| and the train only did about 30km /h max. After Communism fell
| the track via Bruno was opened up and although a much longer
| route the trip only took half as long._
| foobarian wrote:
| When I went there first it was also still under communist
| rule, and the thing I still remember the most is that bread
| loaves commonly sold in the grocery stores had the price
| embossed into the crust (IIRC "5 Kcs"). Centrally controlled
| economies eh? So stable that it was practical to make price
| stamps distributed to bakeries. I wish I could get my hands
| on one of these brands...
| inglor_cz wrote:
| You reminded me of my own childhood. Yes, 5 Kcs was a
| standard price.
|
| I was not yet 13 when the no-longer-Communist Czechoslovak
| government liberalized the prices. Back then, I was
| profoundly unsettled by the idea that the same loaf of
| bread could cost a different amount of money in two
| different stores.
|
| It felt as unnatural as having multiple birthdays.
| rareitem wrote:
| > Hasek ran for office as a member of his own newly founded Party
| of Moderate and Peaceful Progress Within the Limits of the Law
|
| From wikipedia > The platform of the candidate for the Vinorhady
| election district, Jaroslav Hasek, consisted of seven points:[16]
| The reintroduction of slavery. The nationalization of
| janitors ("similar to how it is in Russia [...], where every
| janitor is simultaneously a police informer"). The
| rehabilitation of animals. The institutionalization of
| feeble-minded MPs. The reintroduction of the Inquisition.
| Judicial immunity for priests and the Church ("In cases where a
| schoolgirl is deflowered by a priest"). The mandatory
| introduction of alcoholism.
| ufocia wrote:
| Yes, humor.
| frantathefranta wrote:
| Well his Soviet escapades seem to suggest that not all of
| them were wholly humorous.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| Can you be more specific? Which ones do you believe were
| serious?
| thriftwy wrote:
| I believe these refer to the pre-Soviet state of affairs
| when the yard keeper (dvornik) of an apartment block was
| basically subordinate to the city police - at least in the
| capital of St. Petersburg.
| ufocia wrote:
| That was probably the case also during the Soviet era. It
| may well be the case even today.
| thriftwy wrote:
| I believe that during the Soviet era, almost every
| position will be "on the guard" not just the yard keeper
| (as depicted in "The Diamond Arm" of 1968). After the
| Soviet era, yard-keeping services are way understaffed to
| be useful for that, and also mostly rely on immigrant
| labor lately. Still, you can never be sure.
| ufocia wrote:
| I wasn't aware that Russia has immigrant labor, though I
| shouldn't have been surprised given their relative
| economic strength.
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| Some music video commentary on russian immigrant labour:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fix7P6aGXQ (Uzbek
| artist)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7pSztJFomE (Circassian
| artist)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ugivNRYfjc (Russian
| artist -- for the taxi driving character introduced at
| 3:30)
|
| these are all from about a decade back; there's no doubt
| been much more since...
| thriftwy wrote:
| Notes from the Underground Internets.
| some_random wrote:
| Reading this article and expecting him to be a prototypical
| anti-war writer only to see that he was at one point a
| COMMISSAR IN THE RED ARMY caused quite a bit of whiplash
| ufocia wrote:
| Central Europe was the place of a lot of complex
| belligerence at the time. Given his penchant for humor,
| I'm not surprised that he was a commissar. 'The Bolshevik
| Party established political commissars in 1918 to control
| and improve morale in the military forces." For all I
| know it could've been for self-preservation.
|
| I'm not trying to be an apologist for him. Rather, I'd
| like to encourage people to learn a bit more about him
| and his environment before jumping to conclusions based
| on a single point in his life.
| ufocia wrote:
| "In 1911, he founded The Party of Moderate Progress Within
| the Bounds of the Law. He founded it with his friends in
| the Vinohrady pub called U zlateho litru (The Golden Liter)
| to parody the political life of that time."
|
| He didn't become a Communist until about 1918.
|
| The most you can say is that he had a complex life.
| maciekpaprocki wrote:
| For those that loved the book. Hasek also wrote an autobiography,
| which is even funnier than the life of Svejk. It's definitely
| made up quite a bit, but the stories in it are great. I cannot
| find english title ( it might have been not printed ), but
| transleting from polish it's called "3.5 beer".
|
| Spoilers!!! Stories include:
|
| - One time he wrote to paper called animals and unfortunately run
| out of animals to write, so he just started inventing them. It
| ended up in year long trip to Australia paid by some wealthy
| women who really wanted to get her own "Tasmanian Vampire"
|
| - Russian general invades city. Hasek knows the best way to stay
| alive is to have a drink with him. They get very drunk and
| general ask Hasek what's his biggest problem. Hasek says that the
| fact that people cannot read. Next day he wakes up to bunch of
| posters around the city saying that whoever will not be able to
| read by noon tomorrow will be executed.
| wly_cdgr wrote:
| Wow, what? How is my favorite novel the top result on HN right
| now.
| chalst wrote:
| Is the sense of humour comparable to the Flashman series?
| mikrl wrote:
| It's like catch 22 but more crude, and more brutal.
|
| Lots of drinking, stealing, fist fighting, long winded
| anecdotes (with plenty of embellishments) telling lies to get
| into / out of trouble, and ethnic humour reflecting the
| attitudes which were typical of the imperial period:
| Germans/Austrians look down on Czechs, Czechs resent the
| Germans and are unfriendly with Hungarians, the imperial
| soldiers harass Jews (who get them back in various ways) and
| there is a scene where the Czechs in military jail are
| practicing their Russian: for an assumed surrender at the
| front.
| MichaelRo wrote:
| I tried to read the book as a kid when I was maybe 6h or 7th
| grade, along with Jules Verne and what else. Didn't finish it,
| heck, I abandoned it quickly.
|
| Maybe it's one of those things that you need to be an adult to
| appreciate. Unfortunately there's no lack of content nowadays, so
| I'm not sure I'll give the book another try.
| coredog64 wrote:
| There's an American version of this called "No Time For
| Sergeants" [0]. One of my favorites bits is when he takes color-
| blindness to the extreme.
|
| [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Time_for_Sergeants
| limaoscarjuliet wrote:
| I was raised in Eastern Bloc in 70 and 80s. Svejk was the classic
| we all read as teenagers. We have seen that as parody of
| communism and always wondered how is that book not censored or
| forbidden?
|
| Now I realize it describes any sufficient evolved (i.e. broken)
| system, which might have been good enough excuse for the soviets
| not to make it verbotten.
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| Like the joke about Stalin's underling muttering under his
| breath about "that bastard with the moustache", I wouldn't be
| surprised if either (a) the original censors had said "anti
| Austria-Hungary good" without giving a moment's thought as to
| how well the satire fit their own system, or (b) a particularly
| bright censor (or set of censors) realised they could always
| fall back on (a) for plausible deniability. Compare
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39697389 (or
| https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/b/ba/Sharik_Figvam...
| ?)
| analog31 wrote:
| In English, there is at least one Bowdlerized translation, which
| ruins it. I found the Penguin Books edition to be quite good.
|
| It was my grandfather's favorite novel. He fought on the other
| side.
| maximinus_thrax wrote:
| This is my comfort book. I've read it 6 or 7 times, first time
| when I was around 12 years old. It's a book which still has the
| ability to pull me out of whatever pit I am at certain times.
| bitsinthesky wrote:
| I think an entrepreneur should establish a tour in the Czech
| lands, to walk in the footsteps of svejk as of when he drank away
| the money for his train ticket sending his company to the front,
| thereby forcing him to zig zag across the land in the hope of
| rejoining them. It will be the Czech Camino de Santiago, and one
| must carry a pipe and a bottle of slivovic as they go.
| jug wrote:
| Related, popular Czech pub in Stockholm :D
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/GbNAjLTPCpNwkSwf9
| scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
| My underground Nazi-resistance fighter, Auschwitz survivor and
| later staunch-idealist socialist-communist grandfather loved this
| book and identified with it deeply.
|
| Edit: I might add that this book and author had a similar sort of
| status on this side of the iron curtain as Joseph Heller and his
| military Catch-22 humor.
| nutrie wrote:
| Interesting. I didn't know Svejk was popular at all outside
| Czechia. I must say, it's somewhat a bittersweet realization. The
| way I and many other Czechs see it, Hasek did us quite a
| disservice. Still, if you guys enjoy it, hats down.
| spacechild1 wrote:
| It is very popular in Austrian, in particular the TV series
| from the 70s with Fritz Muliar as the main actor 1972: https://
| de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Abenteuer_des_braven_Solda.... The
| theatre plays are also quite popular. I even read the novel as
| a kid because my father had it in his library :)
|
| Why do you think Hasek did you a disservice?
| nutrie wrote:
| In a nutshell, we did it to ourselves by excessively
| promoting the novel over the course of many decades.
|
| Starting with the avant-garde movements of the 20's, through
| the communism era (Hasek was a socialist and a communist) to
| this day, we've been essentially saying Svejk characterizes
| the true nature of what it means to be a Czech. You literally
| hear school teachers tell their students a drunk devious
| simpleton is considered a role model.
|
| The topic is quite complex, there's more history and politics
| involved, but I'm not going there.
|
| Disclaimer: By no means am I criticizing the book or people
| who like it.
| mcepl wrote:
| I am a Czech as well, and although I know exactly what you
| are talking about, I have found my own way towards Svejk
| lately. I am afraid (all of them awesome artists, but too
| much pushing the novel in the humour direction) Lada,
| Hrusinsky, and Trnka are guilty a lot for the feeling which
| is prevalent now. Contrary to that, I was fascinated a lot
| by listening to M.C.Putna's discussion of Svejk in
| https://www.mujrozhlas.cz/putnuv-jihocesky-literarni-
| mistopi... and by listening to the novel in audio, where he
| understands basically Svejk as "Kafka by other means", and
| there is a lot to it.
| projektfu wrote:
| I love this book and, having read it, it gave me a new was of
| looking at "Gomer Pyle, USMC". Probably not the intention of the
| series creator, but imagining Pyle as much smarter than he lets
| on and quite mischievous is a lot of fun.
| troad wrote:
| Funny story - last year I tried to buy a copy of Svejk in Prague
| and I had the following exchange in a bookshop (in Czech).
|
| Me: "Hello! Do you have a copy of Svejk?"
|
| Assistant: "No."
|
| M: "Uh, do you know of anyone that might?"
|
| A: "No, no one has any Svejk right now!"
|
| M: "I see. Is there any reason for that?"
|
| A: "Everyone has already read it." _walks off in a huff_
|
| It seemed somehow fitting. 'You can't read Svejk because everyone
| has already read it, and we're insulted you'd even ask.' There's
| a reason the Czech lands have given us both Kafka and Hasek.
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