[HN Gopher] Lemonade Stand
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       Lemonade Stand
        
       Author : elvis70
       Score  : 71 points
       Date   : 2024-03-13 17:17 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (possiblywrong.wordpress.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (possiblywrong.wordpress.com)
        
       | brightball wrote:
       | I loved that game when we got to play it at school as a kid. It
       | was the first thing that made me think about supply and demand.
        
         | anonymoose33282 wrote:
         | Yeah, I remember in 5th grade we had a day where each kid got a
         | turn on the classroom computer to see how far they could go.
        
         | mrbombastic wrote:
         | I think we played a later version in school and it really
         | imprinted the concept in my brain. Also think the RNG didn't
         | let probability go below a certain point in that version,
         | remember charging $1000 for a glass of lemonade and making a
         | sale.
        
       | gweinberg wrote:
       | The version I played on the ][+ was clearly not the one shown
       | here, it didn't use a rng. The weather/event sequence was the
       | same every time.
        
         | rgmerk wrote:
         | It may have been that they used a PRNG and gave it the same
         | initial seed each time.
         | 
         | There were all sorts of odd bits of programming in a lot of
         | these early BASIC games; they were often done by self-taught
         | programmers.
        
           | gweinberg wrote:
           | Now that I think of it, the computer didn't have a clock,
           | didn't really have any source of entropy. So yeah, that's
           | probably right.
        
             | pvg wrote:
             | There were memory mapped devices from which you could
             | almost certainly squeeze some out so 'any' is maybe
             | slightly overstated.
        
           | cortesoft wrote:
           | Yeah, my first game I ever wrote was a dog racing game in
           | BASIC when I was 9. I didn't understand PRNG at all or
           | anything about seeds, but I did notice that the same dog won
           | the same race in order.
           | 
           | My solution? At game launch, the game would print "hit space
           | to start the game and then run a right loop over a 'rand'
           | call until the user hit space. The entropy was in how long it
           | took you to hit the spacebar!
        
             | dmurray wrote:
             | I remember this being the recommended way to get random
             | numbers in some programming magazine or textbook, in a
             | BASIC without built-in RAND(). Amazing work to discover
             | this yourself at age 9!
             | 
             | And if you squint, using mouse movements as a source of
             | entropy is still used by some program. Some SSH key
             | generators use it, and I'm sure I've had a Linux installer
             | ask me for it too in recent years. I'm not sure whether
             | this is theatre or whether the OS really can't be relied on
             | to provide suitable entropy itself.
        
               | TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
               | I think old console games (e.g. for the NES) were like
               | this. You can record the inputs for a speedrun dependant
               | on RNG and replay them on a real console, and so long as
               | the timing is maintained exactly, the RNG outputs will be
               | the same. This has been demonstrated with a tool called
               | TASbot.
        
       | panozzaj wrote:
       | I enjoyed this game! I have the ][ and played it on the "The
       | Apple At Play" [1] disk (both are in the closet right behind me.)
       | I think it actually might have been a different version than the
       | one you have.
       | 
       | I made a handful of GPT "games" a couple of months ago, one of
       | which was a Lemonade Stand clone. Can try it out at [2].
       | 
       | It does some interesting things around rolling random numbers in
       | Python for the weather and it's nice that you can put in free-
       | form text to say what you want to do for your actions. It's
       | definitely more hackable than the original (good prompt security
       | test.)
       | 
       | [1]: https://archive.org/details/3d0g_059b_Apple_at_Play [2]:
       | https://chat.openai.com/g/g-e7DwANYTS-lemonade-stand
        
       | karmakaze wrote:
       | How times have changed. At the time, I would also have been into
       | reverse engineering it.
       | 
       | Today I think I should make an RNN to solve it, and how fast I
       | can get Applesoft BASIC to run for training.
        
       | jetrink wrote:
       | The first software I made that had users other than myself was a
       | Lemonade Stand clone for the TI-83 Plus. I shared it with people
       | at my school using a link cable and, as there wasn't much
       | competition in the calculator game market, it was a big hit. The
       | next school year, I attended a drivers ed class at our crosstown
       | rival high school and found that my game had somehow spread to
       | that school as well! I have no idea how it happened, but it was
       | very satisfying seeing something I made have a life of its own.
       | Ben Brode was on the Search Engine podcast recently and shared a
       | very similar story.[1] I wonder how many other programmers of our
       | generation had this experience.
       | 
       | One thing that my game had that the original did not (and I don't
       | know if I invented this or copied it from the version I played)
       | was a hidden demand parameter that persisted between days.
       | Advertising and word of mouth from satisfied customers would
       | cause it increase, while customers going away empty-handed would
       | cause it to decrease. That turned the game into a kind of clicker
       | where the numbers could continue to go up and up. I also added
       | the ability to save your game by serializing the game state to an
       | image file, since that was the only way to save data on the TI-83
       | Plus that wasn't likely to be clobbered by another program.
       | 
       | 1. https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/how-do-you-make-an-
       | addictive-v...
        
         | joshstrange wrote:
         | I didn't see my games/programs get spread like that exactly but
         | I got my start on the TI-84+ SE and spent a ton of time on
         | ticalc (can't remember if it was .com or .org) forums and
         | uploaded programs and games to their archives.
         | 
         | I wore the buttons off my calculator and did 90%+ of my
         | programming on it (only used the desktop app to write and push
         | code to the calculator near the end of my time using it). Then
         | I took a HS class on Java, taught myself PHP, and never really
         | looked back to my calculator. TI-BASIC was a great start but so
         | limiting once I discovered other languages.
        
       | joezydeco wrote:
       | There were two cassette-tape programs that shipped with the Apple
       | ][ that arrived in our school. _Lemonade Stand_ and _The Great
       | American Probability Machine_.
       | 
       | https://whatifmath.org/the-great-american-probability-machin...
       | 
       | This was the old fun, quirky 1970s Apple Computer, Inc. I still
       | fondly remember.
        
         | fnordpiglet wrote:
         | I've been trying to find info on the actual game, but all I can
         | find are biographical stories like this one. It _sounds_
         | interesting by the name! I just wish I could find more info
         | about the game itself
        
           | emmelaich wrote:
           | Seems like it's some simulation of Pascal's Triangle with a
           | Pachinko feel?
           | 
           | I'd like to know more too!
           | 
           | https://www.digibarn.com/collections/software/apple2/apple2e.
           | ..
        
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       (page generated 2024-03-13 23:00 UTC)