[HN Gopher] A 'double brood' of periodical cicadas will emerge i...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A 'double brood' of periodical cicadas will emerge in 2024
        
       Author : Brajeshwar
       Score  : 94 points
       Date   : 2024-03-11 16:32 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.scientificamerican.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.scientificamerican.com)
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | https://archive.md/49C5h
        
       | rblatz wrote:
       | I went through one of these in Ohio in the early 2000s. It was
       | intense, there were huge dense clouds of cicadas flying around.
       | It was extremely loud, and my windshield was a complete mess.
       | 
       | It really did feel like a biblical plague of locusts.
        
         | the_sleaze9 wrote:
         | I was just a kid just outside of the DC metro area in the
         | country. I remember my dad and I had to stop the car on the
         | side of the highway because the air was so dense with cicadas
         | and the wipers weren't up to the task.
         | 
         | The noise when getting out and standing in that cloud was
         | difficult to describe. It was so loud, all blended together and
         | harmonized into this weird tone that you felt almost like a
         | colored liquid. Completely surreal.
         | 
         | One of my favorite memories with my dad, looking back.
        
           | plasma_beam wrote:
           | The massive DC/MD/VA ones are the 17 year Brood X and came
           | out in 2021.
        
             | ahi wrote:
             | I was in DC in 2004 and it was incredible. The sidewalks
             | were like a crunchy carpet. At times they drowned out rush
             | hour traffic.
        
               | hedgehog wrote:
               | I remember the telephone poles being covered and the
               | crunching sound while driving slowly on a residential
               | street.
        
               | CatWChainsaw wrote:
               | The 2004 brood was far more memorable than the 2021
               | brood. 2004 was like you said. In 2021 there was only one
               | place in my neighborhood where that level of noise
               | happened.
        
           | chankstein38 wrote:
           | While I don't know that I've ever experienced a double brood,
           | I've experienced plenty of cicada hatches in my life and this
           | is probably the best way to describe the auditory experience
           | that I've seen! I never know how to describe it to people who
           | haven't been in it but that's a great way. It feels like
           | you're almost swimming in the sound it's so intense. I once
           | was driving along a highway during a brood and thought
           | something was wrong with my car because of this awful sound
           | that had just started, stopped at a rest stop, and was
           | instantly immersed in cicada sound. It was wild!
        
         | JonathonW wrote:
         | I was in Nashville for the last Brood XIX emergence (2011)--
         | where they actually emerge is pretty patchy, but they were
         | pretty dense around my office building, to the point where you
         | couldn't walk down the sidewalk without stepping on cicadas or
         | cicada shells with almost every step. Went to an area
         | renaissance fair that same month, and they were just about
         | deafening in the forest around the site (thankfully weren't
         | swarming too badly where people were, at least).
         | 
         | I'm not looking forward to this May. Not sure what to expect at
         | home this time around (still in Nashville, but a different part
         | of town)-- hopefully they're not too bad, but I suspect my
         | noise-cancelling headphones will be getting a workout while
         | they're out.
        
           | tithe wrote:
           | Was there a clean-up effort afterwards around town?
           | 
           | At least snow melts and evaporates, but dead bugs all over
           | the streets?
        
       | jdblair wrote:
       | 13 and 17 year cycles would mean these broods emerge at the same
       | time only every 221 years! Thomas Jefferson was president the
       | last time this happened.
        
         | pkulak wrote:
         | I wonder if two prime numbers evolved as a way to make this as
         | rare as possible.
        
           | d--b wrote:
           | There is a ton of literature about cicadas and prime numbers.
           | Experts definitely lean towards the primes emerging from
           | natural selection indeed.
        
           | chowells wrote:
           | Yes. Prime numbers come up in nature in a lot of cases when
           | cyclic things evolve to minimize coincidence.
        
       | airstrike wrote:
       | Sounds like a great time to buy sesame seed futures
        
         | xyst wrote:
         | Okay, Peter Gregory. Now can I get the bridge loan to keep my
         | company running
        
           | arsenykostenko wrote:
           | I came here looking for this comment)
        
         | Workaccount2 wrote:
         | Stuff like this is always priced in. Often it's over priced in
         | and there is a counter move to correct for the over correction.
         | 
         | To put it another way, event specific trading is just gambling.
         | 
         | I know this is a tongue in cheek comment you are making, but my
         | frustrations can't help but explode when I am reminded of the
         | fact that I have lost sizeable amounts of money despite having
         | the correct hypothesizes in the past.
        
           | seuraughty wrote:
           | Could you talk more about correct hypotheses resulting in
           | loss in trading? I feel like I've called a couple things
           | correctly and sometimes think of getting into trading to
           | capitalize on such predictions. But I don't want to cause you
           | any frustration, so no worries if you'd rather not get into
           | it :-)
        
             | filoleg wrote:
             | > Could you talk more about correct hypotheses resulting in
             | loss in trading?
             | 
             | Not the person you are asking, but I can answer this.
             | 
             | You can have a correct hypothesis, but still fail if enough
             | market participants had the exact same hypothesis that they
             | acted on. Because it would lead to the effects of that
             | hypothesis being priced-in.
             | 
             | Made up example: you have a hypothesis that a seemingly
             | unrelated event A will lead to a price increase in sesame
             | seed futures, so you decided to purchase them (expecting
             | them to go in price due to event A, so that you can sell it
             | later at a profit).
             | 
             | The issue you might encounter is that many other market
             | participants recognized the potential effects of event A,
             | so when you buy those sesame seed futures, that potential
             | profit from event A is already priced-in (due to others
             | recognizing it and trading accordingly, thus increasing the
             | price of the futures by the time you buy it, which means
             | that the future gain you expect on those futures has
             | already happened), so you won't make any gains from that.
             | 
             | As a bonus, if that event A doesn't manage to factually
             | affect sesame futures once it happens, or it won't happen
             | at all, you can expect the priced-in portion of the
             | futures' value pretty much vaporize. Which makes it really
             | lucrative to trade against priced-in events, but it is also
             | risky.
             | 
             | You might ask "but wouldn't that mean that almost
             | everything is priced-in", and the answer is "kinda yes",
             | which is where the origin of the "everything is priced-in"
             | meme comes from (note: it isn't really true, but it is also
             | really kinda is true).
        
               | em-bee wrote:
               | so you when many people have the same idea you only win
               | if you are the first. couldn't you check that by looking
               | at the price development up to now?
        
               | filoleg wrote:
               | > so you when many people have the same idea you only win
               | if you are the first
               | 
               | Not necessarily. Being "priced-in" is not a binary event,
               | it can be more or less priced-in. You can still make good
               | profit even if you weren't one of the first people, you
               | will just make less than the first people, and that's ok.
               | 
               | > couldn't you check that by looking at the price
               | development up to now?
               | 
               | This ties into my statement above. You can look at the
               | price development, but it won't tell you "how much it is
               | priced-in" at the moment. It could be fully priced-in
               | with no more left to go. It could also become less priced
               | in (aka more room for you to make profits), as new
               | developments outside of the market occur (e.g., the
               | certainty around event A occurring and affecting sesame
               | seed futures gets increased due to some recently
               | published study).
               | 
               | Price developments also don't tell you much, as it is a
               | blackbox. Movements could be occurring due to it being
               | relevant to your hypothesis, they could be occurring due
               | to some meta moves (e.g., fed interest rates changing or
               | fed unemployment rates being published), or due to
               | something entirely unrelated whatsoever. It could be just
               | some noise, or it could be something relevant to your
               | hypothesis. In case it is relevant to your hypothesis, it
               | could be that the market reacts fine, but it could also
               | be the case that the market ignores it for a while or
               | overreacts to it.
               | 
               | Markets aren't a solved problem, and there are no hard
               | and fast rulesets on how to trade successfully. Just make
               | sure you are constantly reassessing your risk profile
               | while utilizing as many relevant variables (which could
               | affect it), and you will be less likely to make terribly
               | naive trades.
               | 
               | That also means, sometimes, not listening to what the
               | prevailing majority (or vocal minority, depends on how
               | you look at it) says. A lot of mainstream reporting on
               | finance these days is not much better than mainstream
               | reporting/"journalism" in general, with the stories based
               | off a few cherry-picked numbers or a couple of tweets.
               | That isn't to say there is some conspiracy or intentional
               | malicious play happening, there isn't (on any meaningful
               | scale that would actually matter). It's just the usual
               | quick-and-fast profit-chasing reporting with the lowest
               | common denominator writing quality. Luckily, when it
               | comes to finance, all the factual happenings have to be
               | disclosed in quarterly earnings reports, so following the
               | source material is very easily doable and helpful (which
               | isn't the case for a lot of contexts outside of finance,
               | sadly).
               | 
               | Case in point: when Meta stock died heavily a couple of
               | years ago during the whole metaverse hype, I remember
               | thinking that the metaverse bet by Zuck was a bit too
               | optimistic and forward-thinking (i legitimately think it
               | was just too early for its time, given the current state
               | of tech and internet coupled with Zuck's optimism). I was
               | certain that the market overreacted massively, and I also
               | remembered that every time Zuck was clowned for his
               | controversial strategic decisions before, he would always
               | have the last laugh (just check all the news articles
               | related to Instagram and WhatsApp acquisitions, or
               | articles about IG copying Snap Stories feature). Coupled
               | with strong earnings reports and forward-looking guidance
               | presented during those, I was certain that betting on
               | Meta would be a big payoff. The market had priced-in
               | failure for Meta already, and the possibility of the Meta
               | doomer hypothesis being wrong seemed very likely to me.
               | So I bet big on Meta around that time.
               | 
               | Sure, for the first year of that, I was losing money (I
               | bought-in after Meta went down to slightly below
               | $200/share) as the meta tanked down to $100. But I held,
               | as I was certain of this just being an overreaction, and
               | it paid off. Would it have been much better if I waited
               | until Meta went down to $100/share before I bought in?
               | Sure, but I can't time the markets perfectly, and I am
               | more than ok with the outcomes I got. Remember that
               | perfect is the enemy of good.
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | > Stuff like this is always priced in.
           | 
           | But sometimes you truly are the first to know or think about
           | something. Maybe not in this instance, but probably others.
           | Especially if you read a lot of diverse information on many
           | topics.
           | 
           | Sometimes you just have to be ahead of the mean, too.
           | 
           | I made good money on WFH, GPUs, shipping, oil, and energy by
           | being just a little bit ahead of everyone else.
        
             | Workaccount2 wrote:
             | Right, there is a meta-game at work where you also need to
             | know how many other people are betting on your hypothesis.
             | Sometimes this is somewhat clear, but generally it's
             | impossible to know because of the countless variables that
             | would need to be accounted for.
        
             | kulahan wrote:
             | Biggest loss for me was reading about Nikola's "HTML
             | SUPERCOMPUTER" driving their trucks. The easiest short I
             | ever could've taken part in. So obvious. So painful. I
             | discovered it as the story broke, but MAN, if I'd read that
             | just a few weeks earlier...
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | i believe all stock and futures trading, and any investment
           | done on speculation is essentially gambling. even real estate
           | investment can be considered gambling.
        
           | hehhehaha wrote:
           | This reminds me of the legendary wall street bets guy who bet
           | on gourd futures
           | 
           | https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/kzoh1c/i_am.
           | ..
        
             | bagels wrote:
             | Do you think it was a true story?
        
               | pkulak wrote:
               | Has to be a creative retelling of a Simpsons episode.
        
         | lukeinator42 wrote:
         | and then feast on some BK
        
       | dghughes wrote:
       | The cicadas use prime numbers as their emergence period time I
       | thought they mention it in the article. I think that fact is the
       | most fascinating part.
       | 
       | >2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, ... and so on
        
         | knowaveragejoe wrote:
         | I recall that this has something to do with the ebb and flow of
         | their predator's populations, over the eons it has aligned with
         | periods of declining predator population.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | There are youtube videos that talk about this. Using 2,5,7
         | while being prime, just didn't offer enough separation to offer
         | the best protection from predators. A smaller prime number
         | allows the possibility that a predator could be around for more
         | than one emergence. Evolutionary pressures found a balance at
         | the 13/17 year gaps to mimimize that from occurring.
        
           | madcaptenor wrote:
           | I've also heard - but don't remember why - that there's some
           | reason why primes of form 4n+1 would be preferred to primes
           | of form 4n-1, which is why you don't see 11-year or 19-year
           | cicadas.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | After further thinking back on this, it wasn't just
             | survival from predators. It also had to do with the sharing
             | of resources with different broods. At 13/17 combos, the
             | overlap seems to balance out that each brood has the
             | resources to continue with low risk of sharing. Every
             | couple hundred years seems to be far enough that the
             | species is not at risk of competition ending one of the
             | broods.
        
         | LgWoodenBadger wrote:
         | What does it matter whether their cycles are primes when their
         | predators all have cycles of 1?
        
           | weberer wrote:
           | It becomes a problem if broods emerge two years in a row.
           | Then the predator population would not have enough time to
           | die down before the second emergence.
        
           | zem wrote:
           | if predators breed annually, that means that one year is the
           | clock-tick, not the cycle. as a very simplified example,
           | let's say there is some fixed availability of prey. so if
           | there are a ton of predators born and/or come to maturity in
           | one year, they will exhaust the food supply, spend their time
           | and energy fighting for food or starving, and have a
           | population crash next year. the reduced population that year
           | will have a glut of food and a surplus of time and energy for
           | breeding, leading to a boom the year after that, for a two-
           | year cycle with a one-year tick.
        
         | data-ottawa wrote:
         | Stuff like this is so cool.
         | 
         | The golden ratio is really neat too, it works out to the
         | longest period between overlaps for leaves and petals, which
         | maximizes energy per cost.
         | 
         | An interesting aspect of that is that phi =1+1/phi, which if
         | you expand that fraction it becomes 1+1/(1+1/(1+1/(...))), so
         | it's actually the irrational number least approximatable by
         | rationals. All repeating rotations are rational ratios, and so
         | phi, being the least appriximable gives the angle with the
         | least overlap for leaves over any number of leaves.
        
       | lupire wrote:
       | I hadn't realized that there were different broods with different
       | phases of the same period. I wonder if thats convergent
       | evolution, or if it's due to "errors" when a few individuals
       | randomly over/undersleep and then breed in the "wrong" year,
       | growing a new brood.
        
         | mithras wrote:
         | They need a critical mass to satiate their predators, otherwise
         | all will get eaten before they can mate.
        
         | saalweachter wrote:
         | Could it also maybe be related to interactions between 13 & 17
         | year cicadas?
         | 
         | https://cicadas.uconn.edu/#Hybrids says that hybrid 13/17
         | cicadas would either have a 13- or 17-year-cycle, but hints
         | that the subsequent generation may be interesting.
         | 
         | The obvious outcome would be that the grand-children of a 13/17
         | year hybrid might re-hybridize back from 17 -> 13, or 13 -> 17.
         | 
         | If enough of the grandchildren stabilize on their new cycle,
         | you'd end up with a 13 year brood 4 years later than the
         | original 13 year brood, and a 17 year brood 4 years earlier
         | than the original 17 year brood.
        
       | jihadjihad wrote:
       | > And female cicadas also damage trees directly by slicing into
       | twigs to lay their eggs. Although these two types of damage
       | rarely kill trees, the effect is enough to reset the clocks of
       | trees such as oaks, which typically undergo "mast years" in which
       | they produce large batches of acorns every few years in
       | synchrony. After accumulating damage during a cicada emergence,
       | these trees produce lean harvests for two autumns in a row and
       | then a feastlike burst of nuts two-and-a-half years after a
       | cicada emergence, Lill says.
       | 
       | That's wild.
        
         | kulahan wrote:
         | Those mast years, as I understand it, are tied to passenger
         | pigeons - another species that existed in the billions. When
         | sleeping in trees, they'd stack up 3-4 high just to have enough
         | room. Pretty funny bird.
        
           | jaybna wrote:
           | Also, African and European swallows...
        
           | CatWChainsaw wrote:
           | This was an engaging read about a researcher trying to breed
           | passenger pigeons back into existence.
           | 
           | https://sammatey.substack.com/p/repost-the-weekly-
           | anthropoce...
        
         | dugmartin wrote:
         | You can tell the mast vs non-mast years here in Western
         | Massachusetts (USA) by the appearances of bears in town. In
         | good mast years you don't see any. In bad ones you can wake up
         | with your compost bin destroyed as the bears get hungry and
         | come down out of the hills.
        
         | mrguyorama wrote:
         | My understanding was that the main theory behind "Mast years"
         | of trees was that it is an evolutionary adaptation to overwhelm
         | squirrels and such so that some acorns are not eaten, and
         | survive to grow into trees.
         | 
         | Are they claiming that female cicadas are the direct cause of
         | mast years? Different cicada broods have different patterns, do
         | we see different mast year patterns in trees that correlate to
         | the local cicada patterns?
        
           | jihadjihad wrote:
           | > My understanding was that the main theory behind "Mast
           | years" of trees was that it is an evolutionary adaptation to
           | overwhelm squirrels and such so that some acorns are not
           | eaten, and survive to grow into trees.
           | 
           | That was my understanding as well.
           | 
           | > Are they claiming that female cicadas are the direct cause
           | of mast years?
           | 
           | I don't think so--at least, I took it to mean that the
           | typical 2-5 year period between mast years could be thrown
           | off due to an active cicada year, which itself is interesting
           | and not something I'd ever heard before.
           | 
           | > do we see different mast year patterns in trees that
           | correlate to the local cicada patterns?
           | 
           | It would be a great area of research! I've got a big bur oak
           | in my back yard, I might start a log...haha.
        
           | Scarblac wrote:
           | No, we here in the Netherlands have mast years too and we
           | don't have any cicadas.
           | 
           | The claim is that they change the mast year pattern for a few
           | years after they emerge.
           | 
           | Interestingly, I think the theory behind the periodical life
           | cycle of the cicadas is the same as the one behind mast years
           | -- there are no predators who have evolved to only be around
           | every 13th year, so the number of predators around will be
           | the same as in non-cicada years. Giving the huge amounts of
           | cicadas in this year a good chance of survival.
        
       | imzadi wrote:
       | I moved to Oklahoma for a few years in the early aughts, after
       | growing up on the west coast. The first time heard cicadas I
       | thought there was a rattlesnake about to get me. The first time I
       | saw a cicada it freaked me out completely. I thought it was some
       | kind of weird giant bee.
        
         | wellthisisgreat wrote:
         | Hey what's a recommendation for someone who wants to witness
         | the emergence in its full glory?
         | 
         | Just drive through those states would be enough? Or should I go
         | off route somewhat and aim from some idk lake or river bank or
        
         | jodacola wrote:
         | I had a similar experience moving from the Bay Area to Kansas
         | in the 2010s. I landed in the KC metro just in time for the
         | most recent local emergence.
         | 
         | I was amazed at what was such a foreign experience. There were
         | so many cicadas flying about that I had them landing on me and
         | hanging on while I mowed my half-acre lawn. Free loaders!
         | 
         | Joking aside, the sound was deafening but strangely comforting
         | after I got used to it. My dogs also think cicadas are fun-to-
         | chase snacks, as we still have some emerge every year, just
         | nowhere near the volume during of a brood emergence.
         | 
         | To the sibling poster wondering about how to experience them:
         | my experience is they're impossible to miss during a brood
         | emergence, even in a metro area like Kansas City. Driving
         | through... you'll definitely hit them with your car! But just
         | stopping at a local park to see them all hanging and flying
         | around trees will net a pretty solid experience, too.
        
       | dekhn wrote:
       | Nothing says summer on the east coast to me like the drone of
       | cicadas on a really hot day. The numbers for Brood II which seems
       | to dominate the area doesn't quite match up with my memories of
       | the loudest cicadas. It's a weird sound, sort of a collective
       | between many different cicadas which aren't quite all in the same
       | phase.
        
       | golergka wrote:
       | Is that the one from the Silicon Valley episode with Burger King?
        
       | barbatoast wrote:
       | I wonder if cicadas will react to the total solar eclipse in
       | April
        
         | saalweachter wrote:
         | It's _probably_ too early -- looks like cicadas need 64 degree
         | soil to emerge, which the internet says is more of a late April
         | /May thing. It's been a warm year, but it's probably too much
         | to hope to see cicadas if you travel to the appropriate area
         | for the eclipse.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | https://www.boringcompany.com/not-a-flamethrower
        
       | sophacles wrote:
       | Fun fact - cicadas are edible and reportedly delicious. Whenever
       | big broods emerge you see restaurants serving various dishes -
       | popcorn cicadas (deep fried), chocalate covered, etc etc.
       | 
       | I'm trying to work up the courage to give it a try this time
       | around.
        
         | coldpie wrote:
         | Do it! I've eaten lightly fried crickets a few times. Tasted
         | somewhere between slightly stale popcorn and walnuts. Not
         | unpleasant at all, and I feel like they could be quite good if
         | cooked fresh instead of pre-packaged. I'd definitely try
         | cicada.
        
         | h2odragon wrote:
         | My hounds and other critters always enjoy cicada years. Cat
         | find them amusing toys.
        
         | kibwen wrote:
         | Weird, but, honestly, no more weird than eating lobster, crab,
         | and shrimp.
        
       | bilsbie wrote:
       | It seems like every year there's some breathless report on
       | cicadas.
        
       | luckydata wrote:
       | Rip Peter Gregory
        
       | 6c696e7578 wrote:
       | https://archive.is/49C5h
        
       | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
       | Text-only, works where archive.md and archive.is are blocked:
       | x=https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-double-brood-of-
       | periodical-cicadas-will-emerge-in-2024/           wget -U ""
       | -qO/dev/stdout $x \          grep -Eo "<p class=\"article__block-
       | KZIY9.+</p>" \          |sed 's/Follow Us:.*//'  > 1.htm
       | firefox ./1.htm
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-03-12 23:01 UTC)