[HN Gopher] My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK
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My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK
Author : codedeep
Score : 50 points
Date : 2024-03-10 21:02 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (codedeepdives.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (codedeepdives.com)
| codedeep wrote:
| My experience and tips for being a software developer contractor,
| in the UK
| Dayshine wrote:
| You mention you get to learn new skills and technologies; but
| if they only want to hire people who can immediately do what
| they need, how does that happen?
|
| Does it involve a bit of stretching your experience?
| OnlyMortal wrote:
| Freelancer here. Yes, you have to sell yourself.
|
| If you're smart, you'll pick it up on the job or read a
| little about it before the interview.
| petepete wrote:
| I'm a UK contractor and I'd say I've learnt lots of new
| skills and tech in my periphery while on Ruby on Rails and
| database contracts.
|
| In the last few years I've been exposed to enough Kubernetes,
| Terraform, Docker, Azure, Google Cloud, Dataform and BigQuery
| to feel comfortable putting them on CV.
|
| Microsoft Dynamics and SharePoint too but I don't think I
| could face any more.
| mp05 wrote:
| > When hiring contractors it is a little like hiring a plumber.
|
| This comparison is more true than a lot of devs want to admit.
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| It is true at some level. If that's how you want to present
| yourself.
|
| You can be a plumber or a safe cracker. A person who does, or a
| person that knows.
|
| The latter pays better day rates.
| T-zex wrote:
| > Contractors can get a new role almost immediately...
|
| Perhaps inside IR35 and perhaps for a low rate. Big corps mostly
| do umbrellas these days.
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| Don't touch umbrella setups. Don't go inside IR35.
|
| Businesses either hire contractors for a liquid and expendable
| workforce...
|
| Or they hire high skill people who take on more liability and
| charge for it accordingly.
|
| Be in the second group. They don't use umbrella setups.
| jacobp100 wrote:
| I found inside IR35 can be much more lucrative. It's big
| companies that have more money, can't hire enough perms, and
| just need stuff done
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| You have to ask why they feel the need to spend on
| contractors.
|
| Also if you're inside IR35 then you're an employee for all
| intents and purposes but without the perks of a perm
| position.
|
| Be a business, not an employee. If you look like an
| employee, regardless of the legal layout, you'll be
| remunerated like one.
|
| Be a business. They make more money.
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| This is good entry level stuff. As a contractor in the UK
| exclusively for the past 20 years tho, it doesn't paint a very
| full picture.
|
| The most inaccurate bit is day rates. They're underestimated by
| quite some way in my experience.
|
| What I would say is contracting in the UK is a game with
| different layers. This is the basic "coder for hire" layer.
| There's levels above that, with contracts spanning 10 years+ and
| higher day rates, but it is much more like dark magic.
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| Also your number one skill is communication. If you're not
| liked, your services are less valuable.
|
| Number two skill is negotiating.
|
| The technical stuff starts much further down the list.
| aussieguy1234 wrote:
| Remember, with GPT-4 around its alot easier to work with a
| language or technology you only have minimal exposure to. It's
| like having a Principal Engineer around 24/7 that you can ask
| questions to unblock you. So dive right in. You can also use it
| to practice the interview before the actual interview.
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| If your principal is like GPT-4, I'd consider this a red flag.
|
| Your comment is an advanced version of "fake it till you make
| it". That's another red flag when I'm hiring disgustingly
| highly paid consultants.
| aussieguy1234 wrote:
| If the person writing the questions is a Senior Engineer
| already and knows how to evaluate the answers properly for
| correctness, you probably would not be able to tell, even if
| they've only had minimal exposure to let's say, Ruby or
| Python as opposed to JavaScript/TypeScript. Or writing
| advanced SQL queries when they don't do this very often.
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| You're assuming the red flag relates to technical
| correctness. It doesn't. It's a red flag about mindset and
| diligence.
|
| Using genAI is fine, using it to bolster a lack of
| underlying knowledge as I read it, is a red flag.
| aussieguy1234 wrote:
| Most engineers will come across something they haven't
| used before in most roles. Perhaps some legacy system in
| some dying language, for example. Previously, they might
| have spent hours on Google. Now, GPT-4 can unblock them
| in seconds.
| te_chris wrote:
| I can't work out if your responses are being written by
| GPT or not.
| madeofpalk wrote:
| I believe only not-so-strong developers actually believe this,
| after actual experience with this tech. That's just like saying
| that "Stackoverflow is like having a Principal Engineer around
| 24/7" which could be true to a degree, but it still doesn't
| make up for not knowing stuff.
| dukeyukey wrote:
| It's more like having an overeager intern around 24/7. Good at
| spitting back documentation at me or finding something from
| Stack Overflow, but really struggles with much else.
|
| Ise use ChatGPT and Copilot all day, they're incredible useful!
| But let's not overstate their power.
| NicoJuicy wrote:
| Gpt-4 isn't an engineer. It's a stack overflow summarizer.
|
| If you would do new things, it won't be able to help you.
| jacobp100 wrote:
| I found the yearly take home for outside IR35 contracts is around
| 220 * day rate, inside is 200. I did find recently that the
| contract rates have gone down a lot, and the full time salaries
| increased - so I'm back perm after about 8 years, and am better
| off having done so. I found jobserve.co.uk good for contract
| roles though
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| Edit: I can't read. If only my client knew!
|
| PS220/day?!
|
| I've not paid a developer less than 600/day since like 2015 and
| that is outside London too.
|
| Some people are being taken for mugs.
| jacobp100 wrote:
| No - take your day rate, multiply by 220. That's what you'd
| expect to make a year
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| Ah yes that sounds about right.
| lbreakjai wrote:
| It's depressing to see that the average day rate in London is
| still at around 500 pounds. I made as much in my first contract 7
| years ago. Sky was offering 650 pounds a day for your average
| frontend react role.
|
| I thought the times were good, but even then the old timers were
| talking about the good old days with some nostalgia.
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| 650 a day is still common. It just isn't as visible because the
| government injected fear in to the market.
| lbreakjai wrote:
| I'm out of the game (Even out of the UK) but I work for a
| British company, with about 30 contractors on board. We're
| starting to wind the project down, and I think there's a
| genuine sense of fear that the market has considerably dried
| up.
| danw1979 wrote:
| It has. Unless you are willing to take a reduced rate,
| there's not a lot out there. I'm just about to go perm
| again after 6 years contracting because I'll be better off
| !
| ksahin wrote:
| With a limited company generating PS100k/year in revenue, I'm
| curious how much a contractor would earn after salary tax?
| (assuming no admin/accounting costs)
| PaulRobinson wrote:
| Put it through a limited company and you'll pay a lot less than
| as salary (and PAYE). It's a weird quirk, but it's about half
| the tax roughly. Means you'll net about PS80k minus some small
| costs. It's been some years since I did this but an accountant
| can advise you and help you deal with any national insurance
| payments need to be dealt with.
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| Also the typical setup is to PAYE a small wage and take the
| rest as dividends and other tax saving mechanisms.
| vidarh wrote:
| The current dividend rates + IR35 means the gap is much
| smaller than it used to be.
| madeofpalk wrote:
| I did this a bunch in another country for a few years, then moved
| to the UK and did contracting through a limited company for a few
| years.
|
| But now, I've switched to a perm role and I'm enjoying it a lot
| more. There's a lot less admin and tax stuff I need to deal with
| - I can focus fully on being a developer - plus I'm working on
| more fulfilling projects over longer periods, and making longer-
| term plans.
|
| Technically I guess I could be earning more _cash_ , but that
| came at the cost of time and stress that I just don't worry about
| any more. I'd much rather be happy.
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