[HN Gopher] My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK
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       My Guide to Software Engineering Contracting in UK
        
       Author : codedeep
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2024-03-10 21:02 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (codedeepdives.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (codedeepdives.com)
        
       | codedeep wrote:
       | My experience and tips for being a software developer contractor,
       | in the UK
        
         | Dayshine wrote:
         | You mention you get to learn new skills and technologies; but
         | if they only want to hire people who can immediately do what
         | they need, how does that happen?
         | 
         | Does it involve a bit of stretching your experience?
        
           | OnlyMortal wrote:
           | Freelancer here. Yes, you have to sell yourself.
           | 
           | If you're smart, you'll pick it up on the job or read a
           | little about it before the interview.
        
           | petepete wrote:
           | I'm a UK contractor and I'd say I've learnt lots of new
           | skills and tech in my periphery while on Ruby on Rails and
           | database contracts.
           | 
           | In the last few years I've been exposed to enough Kubernetes,
           | Terraform, Docker, Azure, Google Cloud, Dataform and BigQuery
           | to feel comfortable putting them on CV.
           | 
           | Microsoft Dynamics and SharePoint too but I don't think I
           | could face any more.
        
       | mp05 wrote:
       | > When hiring contractors it is a little like hiring a plumber.
       | 
       | This comparison is more true than a lot of devs want to admit.
        
         | sirsinsalot wrote:
         | It is true at some level. If that's how you want to present
         | yourself.
         | 
         | You can be a plumber or a safe cracker. A person who does, or a
         | person that knows.
         | 
         | The latter pays better day rates.
        
       | T-zex wrote:
       | > Contractors can get a new role almost immediately...
       | 
       | Perhaps inside IR35 and perhaps for a low rate. Big corps mostly
       | do umbrellas these days.
        
         | sirsinsalot wrote:
         | Don't touch umbrella setups. Don't go inside IR35.
         | 
         | Businesses either hire contractors for a liquid and expendable
         | workforce...
         | 
         | Or they hire high skill people who take on more liability and
         | charge for it accordingly.
         | 
         | Be in the second group. They don't use umbrella setups.
        
           | jacobp100 wrote:
           | I found inside IR35 can be much more lucrative. It's big
           | companies that have more money, can't hire enough perms, and
           | just need stuff done
        
             | sirsinsalot wrote:
             | You have to ask why they feel the need to spend on
             | contractors.
             | 
             | Also if you're inside IR35 then you're an employee for all
             | intents and purposes but without the perks of a perm
             | position.
             | 
             | Be a business, not an employee. If you look like an
             | employee, regardless of the legal layout, you'll be
             | remunerated like one.
             | 
             | Be a business. They make more money.
        
       | sirsinsalot wrote:
       | This is good entry level stuff. As a contractor in the UK
       | exclusively for the past 20 years tho, it doesn't paint a very
       | full picture.
       | 
       | The most inaccurate bit is day rates. They're underestimated by
       | quite some way in my experience.
       | 
       | What I would say is contracting in the UK is a game with
       | different layers. This is the basic "coder for hire" layer.
       | There's levels above that, with contracts spanning 10 years+ and
       | higher day rates, but it is much more like dark magic.
        
         | sirsinsalot wrote:
         | Also your number one skill is communication. If you're not
         | liked, your services are less valuable.
         | 
         | Number two skill is negotiating.
         | 
         | The technical stuff starts much further down the list.
        
       | aussieguy1234 wrote:
       | Remember, with GPT-4 around its alot easier to work with a
       | language or technology you only have minimal exposure to. It's
       | like having a Principal Engineer around 24/7 that you can ask
       | questions to unblock you. So dive right in. You can also use it
       | to practice the interview before the actual interview.
        
         | sirsinsalot wrote:
         | If your principal is like GPT-4, I'd consider this a red flag.
         | 
         | Your comment is an advanced version of "fake it till you make
         | it". That's another red flag when I'm hiring disgustingly
         | highly paid consultants.
        
           | aussieguy1234 wrote:
           | If the person writing the questions is a Senior Engineer
           | already and knows how to evaluate the answers properly for
           | correctness, you probably would not be able to tell, even if
           | they've only had minimal exposure to let's say, Ruby or
           | Python as opposed to JavaScript/TypeScript. Or writing
           | advanced SQL queries when they don't do this very often.
        
             | sirsinsalot wrote:
             | You're assuming the red flag relates to technical
             | correctness. It doesn't. It's a red flag about mindset and
             | diligence.
             | 
             | Using genAI is fine, using it to bolster a lack of
             | underlying knowledge as I read it, is a red flag.
        
               | aussieguy1234 wrote:
               | Most engineers will come across something they haven't
               | used before in most roles. Perhaps some legacy system in
               | some dying language, for example. Previously, they might
               | have spent hours on Google. Now, GPT-4 can unblock them
               | in seconds.
        
               | te_chris wrote:
               | I can't work out if your responses are being written by
               | GPT or not.
        
         | madeofpalk wrote:
         | I believe only not-so-strong developers actually believe this,
         | after actual experience with this tech. That's just like saying
         | that "Stackoverflow is like having a Principal Engineer around
         | 24/7" which could be true to a degree, but it still doesn't
         | make up for not knowing stuff.
        
         | dukeyukey wrote:
         | It's more like having an overeager intern around 24/7. Good at
         | spitting back documentation at me or finding something from
         | Stack Overflow, but really struggles with much else.
         | 
         | Ise use ChatGPT and Copilot all day, they're incredible useful!
         | But let's not overstate their power.
        
         | NicoJuicy wrote:
         | Gpt-4 isn't an engineer. It's a stack overflow summarizer.
         | 
         | If you would do new things, it won't be able to help you.
        
       | jacobp100 wrote:
       | I found the yearly take home for outside IR35 contracts is around
       | 220 * day rate, inside is 200. I did find recently that the
       | contract rates have gone down a lot, and the full time salaries
       | increased - so I'm back perm after about 8 years, and am better
       | off having done so. I found jobserve.co.uk good for contract
       | roles though
        
         | sirsinsalot wrote:
         | Edit: I can't read. If only my client knew!
         | 
         | PS220/day?!
         | 
         | I've not paid a developer less than 600/day since like 2015 and
         | that is outside London too.
         | 
         | Some people are being taken for mugs.
        
           | jacobp100 wrote:
           | No - take your day rate, multiply by 220. That's what you'd
           | expect to make a year
        
             | sirsinsalot wrote:
             | Ah yes that sounds about right.
        
       | lbreakjai wrote:
       | It's depressing to see that the average day rate in London is
       | still at around 500 pounds. I made as much in my first contract 7
       | years ago. Sky was offering 650 pounds a day for your average
       | frontend react role.
       | 
       | I thought the times were good, but even then the old timers were
       | talking about the good old days with some nostalgia.
        
         | sirsinsalot wrote:
         | 650 a day is still common. It just isn't as visible because the
         | government injected fear in to the market.
        
           | lbreakjai wrote:
           | I'm out of the game (Even out of the UK) but I work for a
           | British company, with about 30 contractors on board. We're
           | starting to wind the project down, and I think there's a
           | genuine sense of fear that the market has considerably dried
           | up.
        
             | danw1979 wrote:
             | It has. Unless you are willing to take a reduced rate,
             | there's not a lot out there. I'm just about to go perm
             | again after 6 years contracting because I'll be better off
             | !
        
       | ksahin wrote:
       | With a limited company generating PS100k/year in revenue, I'm
       | curious how much a contractor would earn after salary tax?
       | (assuming no admin/accounting costs)
        
         | PaulRobinson wrote:
         | Put it through a limited company and you'll pay a lot less than
         | as salary (and PAYE). It's a weird quirk, but it's about half
         | the tax roughly. Means you'll net about PS80k minus some small
         | costs. It's been some years since I did this but an accountant
         | can advise you and help you deal with any national insurance
         | payments need to be dealt with.
        
           | sirsinsalot wrote:
           | Also the typical setup is to PAYE a small wage and take the
           | rest as dividends and other tax saving mechanisms.
        
           | vidarh wrote:
           | The current dividend rates + IR35 means the gap is much
           | smaller than it used to be.
        
       | madeofpalk wrote:
       | I did this a bunch in another country for a few years, then moved
       | to the UK and did contracting through a limited company for a few
       | years.
       | 
       | But now, I've switched to a perm role and I'm enjoying it a lot
       | more. There's a lot less admin and tax stuff I need to deal with
       | - I can focus fully on being a developer - plus I'm working on
       | more fulfilling projects over longer periods, and making longer-
       | term plans.
       | 
       | Technically I guess I could be earning more _cash_ , but that
       | came at the cost of time and stress that I just don't worry about
       | any more. I'd much rather be happy.
        
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       (page generated 2024-03-10 23:00 UTC)