[HN Gopher] 4D Knit Dress
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4D Knit Dress
Author : geox
Score : 157 points
Date : 2024-03-09 14:19 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (selfassemblylab.mit.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (selfassemblylab.mit.edu)
| gilbetron wrote:
| The "4d" refers to the knit, which finishes knitting itself after
| a bit of time. I thought it was like some klein bottle dress or
| something at first. Still cool.
| esquivalience wrote:
| My reading of this was that the fourth dimension was time.
| First, a loose dress is 3D-knit; then, when the owner buys it,
| it's possible to apply heat to cause parts of the fabric to
| tighten up, overall making a bespoke fit without significant
| manual labour.
| SiempreViernes wrote:
| I'm not entirely sure how much labour is saved vs making it
| custom cut from the start, having to stand in the reach of an
| industrial robot and get blasted with a heat gun doesn't seem
| like a great customer experience... presumably all the
| relevant measurements had been taken ahead of time so a tool-
| path for the robot could be created
| hammock wrote:
| Seems less about saving labor and more about proving
| technology.
|
| You could take this concept a step further and 3d-scan the
| subject body with a laser, then 3d print a model, and the
| clothing draped on the model and heat-shrunk (rather than
| using a software to decide where to heat shrink and how
| much)
| hammock wrote:
| It's shrink-to-fit denim, with a 3d pattern. Instead of
| wearing your dress in the bathtub, you hang it up and a
| robotic arm blow dries it
| fsmv wrote:
| I feel like adding heat shrink fabric doesn't add a dimension and
| make it go from 3D to 4D. I was expecting a klein bottle or
| hypercube projection or something.
| kahunalu wrote:
| Both of those items are 3D - while the dress transforms over a
| 4th time dimension.
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| Don't all dresses transform over time?
|
| Eventually 100% of all possible dresses will transform into
| dust.
| dambi0 wrote:
| What about dresses repurposed into non-dresses prior to
| their dusty demise.
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| Eventually those will too.
| Razengan wrote:
| I mean everything transforms over time.
| omoikane wrote:
| Reminds me of https://xkcd.com/209/
|
| "So the kayak travels through time?"
|
| "Sure! Just like everything else!"
| master-lincoln wrote:
| No, a Klein bottle is an object that can not exist in 3d. The
| one you probably know is an "immersion" into 3d (making the
| object intersect itself, which it wouldn't do in it's
| original shape in 4d)
| dullcrisp wrote:
| I don't suppose it'll help at all if I say that a Klein
| bottle is a two-dimensional surface and four is the
| smallest dimensional Cartesian space into which it can be
| embedded.
| a012 wrote:
| So you _must_ wash it with cold water, I guess
| tmitchel2 wrote:
| Along with your 4D woolly jumpers
| samstave wrote:
| The haptic sleeve is more interesting!!!
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| it needs to be crossed with:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39649184
| samstave wrote:
| NOT A FAN.
|
| Its both terrifying and amazing.
|
| Im going with terrifying.
|
| But, also, this is how Mecha works... but in anime the pilot
| is inside the robot.
|
| Teleportation is Avatar... but yeah, now its a reality is
| super FN scary
|
| ---
|
| WAIT: what was that movie with Dexter where they controlled
| prisoners though such as a game... its a brilliant movie...
| icegreentea2 wrote:
| Finding more detailed information has been annoying.
|
| From https://www.dezeen.com/2024/02/09/4d-knit-dress-mit-
| ministry... it says that the heat shrinking material is nylon,
| while the rest of the yarn is a viscose + polyester blend.
| smeej wrote:
| Does that mean the transformation is permanent? Because if they
| created a dress that could be shaped, unshaped, and reshaped in
| different ways using, say, a hair dryer, they'd really be on to
| something!
| icegreentea2 wrote:
| I think it means that it's basically permanent - it cannot be
| unshaped. You can of course keep "tucking it in".
| tbrownaw wrote:
| Need to include a few strands of something like
| https://www.asme.org/topics-resources/content/metal-that-
| rem... .
| jijijijij wrote:
| There are also memory alloys which can remember two states.
|
| A similar concept is supertwisted nylon fishing line
| "muscles" which contract upon heating.
|
| I think starfish muscles are contracted in the
| default/energy-off mode, so maybe we could make smart
| fibers which are actively elastic/"plastic".
| hammock wrote:
| Nylon is thermoplastic so in theory it could be reshaped but
| the filament would lose a lot of strength and durability in
| the process
| demondemidi wrote:
| I'm curious how the flexibility of the reformed fabric lasts
| over dressing/undressing cycles, garment care, and long term
| storage in a closet. If I'm not careful I can easily stretch
| out a well made alpaca wool sweater if I remove it too
| carelessly (from experience!). I wonder how fussy this is.
|
| Also would like to know more about the machine. Many garments
| are knitted as tube-like structures just look at circular
| knitting needles, where does this differ and how?
| anon84873628 wrote:
| It doesn't seem like this is intended to be reusable or even
| useful.
|
| It's just a college design project that gets the attention of
| MIT branding.
| jijijijij wrote:
| How disappointing. Today it's all polyester, polyester and more
| stinky polyester. Tomorrow the washing machine has it ground to
| dust already, forever. Lucky us, this single-use dress is of
| bespoke fit!
| VoodooJuJu wrote:
| Subtly paying homage to the classic Silicon Valley dress psyop
| [1] with the different lit photos. Cute.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress
| noman-land wrote:
| How was this a psyop?
| brvsft wrote:
| No one sees anything other than blue/black. So there are paid
| crisis actors out there lying about seeing other colors.
| peterpost2 wrote:
| why would someone be paid to lie about the colors?
| brvsft wrote:
| I'm being facetious in speculating how it would be a
| "psyop."
| YetAnotherNick wrote:
| Did they talk about cost anywhere? Depending on it, it could
| transform the industry or it could be totally irrelevant.
| shrx wrote:
| Spoiler: it will be the latter
| empiricus wrote:
| We are still making clothes like savages, with the only
| improvement being the economy of scale. We should enter a store,
| take a instant 3d scan, then get clothes that are custom made to
| size, seamless knitted, of our choice materials, properties,
| colors.
| monkeydust wrote:
| 3D scanning is getting there, e.g. https://www.aistetic.com/ in
| UK which is being by a few online retailers. At least helps
| with fit and reduces returns burden. Getting from that to
| custom printed clothing is certainly and interesting idea if
| the economics ever work out.
| yeutterg wrote:
| Bonobos has physical "Guideshops" [0] that do not carry all
| inventory, but should carry a majority of the fits and sizes
| offered by the brand. The idea is that you go in to find the
| right fit, then you order your preferred color online. This
| reduces physical inventory in stores.
|
| Made-to-Measure is also becoming increasingly popular. While
| costly compared to brands like Gap and Uniqlo, often you can
| get well-fitted made-to-measure garments for similar prices to
| mid-tier brands. For example, SuitSupply [1] offers made-to-
| measure dress shirts, trousers, and suits for only slightly
| more than their off-the-rack offerings, and FITTED Underground
| [2] offers made-to-measure jeans that are still in the price
| ballpark of premium selvedge jeans. Usually, these brands also
| let you customize things like button colors, cuffs, collars,
| monograms, etc. at little-to-no extra charge.
|
| Even some shoe brands like Beckett Simonon [3] and BLKBRD [4]
| operate on made-to-order models, reducing inventory, and
| sometimes allowing customization.
|
| All these options still rely on traditional manufacturing, but
| just the fact that you can get the fit right allows people to
| consume less.
|
| [0] https://bonobos.com/guideshop
|
| [1] https://suitsupply.com/en-us/
|
| [2] https://fittedunderground.com/
|
| [3] https://www.beckettsimonon.com/
|
| [4] https://www.blkbrdshoemaker.com/
| namibj wrote:
| I am still searching for reasonably priced T-Shirts that only
| have seams from the armpits to the hips (one such seam per
| side), and optionally at the 4 holes for edge reinforcement.
| Critically, this means no seams on top of shoulders by any
| reasonable definition of what "on top of shoulder" means.
|
| You could knit it on a tube knitting machine capable of
| adjusting loop count/circumference freely.
|
| But for a T-Shirt you have very fine knitting, so regular
| knitting machines can at best do newborn-sized T-Shirts.
|
| If anyone happens to know where I could order a dozen shirts
| knitted to spec based on knit design rules and published-by-
| them loop-pitch-after-first-wash from cotton, I'd love to hear.
| yeutterg wrote:
| What is the reason for not wanting the seams on the top of
| the shoulders? Aesthetics? Weightlifting?
|
| Not seamless, but:
|
| There are a lot of brands that offer t-shirts with "raglan"
| sleeves where the seam runs from the collar to the bottom of
| the armpit, instead of along the top of the shoulder.
|
| Or: I personally have a number of the Durable Shirt from Ten
| Thousand [0], which has 2 seams on the front and back of the
| shoulder instead of 1 directly on top. This is so you can put
| a barbell on your shoulders comfortably, but I also like the
| aesthetic. It also looks like they are currently out of stock
| on these, but maybe they'll have more in the future.
|
| [0] https://www.tenthousand.cc/products/durable-
| shirt?variant=39...
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| The ultimate in fast fashion. The result might be a massive
| pile of discarded clothes that fit no one unlike now when
| discarded clothing is bought and sold sometimes several times
| over.
|
| Plus you have to bear in mind that for many people having to
| make decisions about style, fit, material, colour, pattern is a
| burden not a pleasure. People just want a new pair of jeans to
| replace the ones that got damaged so next time they are in
| Tesco's or Sainsbury's they just grab one off the rail and
| throw it in the trolley.
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| The amazing part is that you're so close, but you're still
| thinking like a savage: why would you go into "a clothing
| store" for this? You take a 3d scan at home, and send that over
| to the print-on-demand store that does spin-on-demand, for
| pickup whenever you're out next, or delivery at a surcharge.
| empiricus wrote:
| A civilized person sometimes leaves the home.
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| Which was already baked into the last sentence, yes. The
| point is that "going to a clothing store" makes no sense if
| we're scanning for print-on-demand anyway. The scanning and
| fabrication don't need to happen in the same place, and
| once we're in a future where products are made on demand,
| it _definitely_ doesn 't make sense to still have "a
| clothing store". That's just something that any print-on-
| demand store that also does fabrics can handle.
| balls187 wrote:
| Who is going to pay $500 for a t-shirt?
| James_K wrote:
| The text contrast on this website is awful.
| m47724 wrote:
| Andate a fare in culo
| graiz wrote:
| Ministry of Supply has always had great products, more people
| need to know about them.
| Yusefmosiah wrote:
| synthetic fabrics in clothing are a major source of microplastics
| exposure. In the future we will look back in horror at this whole
| industry.
| smegger001 wrote:
| I wonder if the plastic we deposit into the environment will
| form oil/coal deposit layers in a few million years? Or will
| microbes develop means to digest all those energy rich hydrogen
| carbon bonds those polymers are composed of. Much like our
| coal/oil deposits date back to before evolution a means to
| metabolize cellulose.
| Animats wrote:
| "heat-activated yarns"
|
| That's how much tight-fitting clothing is made. Raw spandex has
| about a 10x stretch. But hot air will re-set the neutral point of
| the stretch. So stocking, etc. are made by weaving a partially-
| shaped garment. That's then slipped over a metal form that's the
| size of the garment when un-worn. The form and garment are hit
| with hot air for about a minute, and that re-sets the zero point
| of the spandex.
|
| Here's a pantyhose production line.[1] Forms and heat transform
| it from a crumpled mess to a formed garment.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlzj9dy5PhA
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