[HN Gopher] 4D Knit Dress
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       4D Knit Dress
        
       Author : geox
       Score  : 157 points
       Date   : 2024-03-09 14:19 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (selfassemblylab.mit.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (selfassemblylab.mit.edu)
        
       | gilbetron wrote:
       | The "4d" refers to the knit, which finishes knitting itself after
       | a bit of time. I thought it was like some klein bottle dress or
       | something at first. Still cool.
        
         | esquivalience wrote:
         | My reading of this was that the fourth dimension was time.
         | First, a loose dress is 3D-knit; then, when the owner buys it,
         | it's possible to apply heat to cause parts of the fabric to
         | tighten up, overall making a bespoke fit without significant
         | manual labour.
        
           | SiempreViernes wrote:
           | I'm not entirely sure how much labour is saved vs making it
           | custom cut from the start, having to stand in the reach of an
           | industrial robot and get blasted with a heat gun doesn't seem
           | like a great customer experience... presumably all the
           | relevant measurements had been taken ahead of time so a tool-
           | path for the robot could be created
        
             | hammock wrote:
             | Seems less about saving labor and more about proving
             | technology.
             | 
             | You could take this concept a step further and 3d-scan the
             | subject body with a laser, then 3d print a model, and the
             | clothing draped on the model and heat-shrunk (rather than
             | using a software to decide where to heat shrink and how
             | much)
        
           | hammock wrote:
           | It's shrink-to-fit denim, with a 3d pattern. Instead of
           | wearing your dress in the bathtub, you hang it up and a
           | robotic arm blow dries it
        
       | fsmv wrote:
       | I feel like adding heat shrink fabric doesn't add a dimension and
       | make it go from 3D to 4D. I was expecting a klein bottle or
       | hypercube projection or something.
        
         | kahunalu wrote:
         | Both of those items are 3D - while the dress transforms over a
         | 4th time dimension.
        
           | MichaelZuo wrote:
           | Don't all dresses transform over time?
           | 
           | Eventually 100% of all possible dresses will transform into
           | dust.
        
             | dambi0 wrote:
             | What about dresses repurposed into non-dresses prior to
             | their dusty demise.
        
               | MichaelZuo wrote:
               | Eventually those will too.
        
             | Razengan wrote:
             | I mean everything transforms over time.
        
               | omoikane wrote:
               | Reminds me of https://xkcd.com/209/
               | 
               | "So the kayak travels through time?"
               | 
               | "Sure! Just like everything else!"
        
           | master-lincoln wrote:
           | No, a Klein bottle is an object that can not exist in 3d. The
           | one you probably know is an "immersion" into 3d (making the
           | object intersect itself, which it wouldn't do in it's
           | original shape in 4d)
        
             | dullcrisp wrote:
             | I don't suppose it'll help at all if I say that a Klein
             | bottle is a two-dimensional surface and four is the
             | smallest dimensional Cartesian space into which it can be
             | embedded.
        
       | a012 wrote:
       | So you _must_ wash it with cold water, I guess
        
         | tmitchel2 wrote:
         | Along with your 4D woolly jumpers
        
       | samstave wrote:
       | The haptic sleeve is more interesting!!!
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | it needs to be crossed with:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39649184
        
           | samstave wrote:
           | NOT A FAN.
           | 
           | Its both terrifying and amazing.
           | 
           | Im going with terrifying.
           | 
           | But, also, this is how Mecha works... but in anime the pilot
           | is inside the robot.
           | 
           | Teleportation is Avatar... but yeah, now its a reality is
           | super FN scary
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | WAIT: what was that movie with Dexter where they controlled
           | prisoners though such as a game... its a brilliant movie...
        
       | icegreentea2 wrote:
       | Finding more detailed information has been annoying.
       | 
       | From https://www.dezeen.com/2024/02/09/4d-knit-dress-mit-
       | ministry... it says that the heat shrinking material is nylon,
       | while the rest of the yarn is a viscose + polyester blend.
        
         | smeej wrote:
         | Does that mean the transformation is permanent? Because if they
         | created a dress that could be shaped, unshaped, and reshaped in
         | different ways using, say, a hair dryer, they'd really be on to
         | something!
        
           | icegreentea2 wrote:
           | I think it means that it's basically permanent - it cannot be
           | unshaped. You can of course keep "tucking it in".
        
           | tbrownaw wrote:
           | Need to include a few strands of something like
           | https://www.asme.org/topics-resources/content/metal-that-
           | rem... .
        
             | jijijijij wrote:
             | There are also memory alloys which can remember two states.
             | 
             | A similar concept is supertwisted nylon fishing line
             | "muscles" which contract upon heating.
             | 
             | I think starfish muscles are contracted in the
             | default/energy-off mode, so maybe we could make smart
             | fibers which are actively elastic/"plastic".
        
           | hammock wrote:
           | Nylon is thermoplastic so in theory it could be reshaped but
           | the filament would lose a lot of strength and durability in
           | the process
        
         | demondemidi wrote:
         | I'm curious how the flexibility of the reformed fabric lasts
         | over dressing/undressing cycles, garment care, and long term
         | storage in a closet. If I'm not careful I can easily stretch
         | out a well made alpaca wool sweater if I remove it too
         | carelessly (from experience!). I wonder how fussy this is.
         | 
         | Also would like to know more about the machine. Many garments
         | are knitted as tube-like structures just look at circular
         | knitting needles, where does this differ and how?
        
           | anon84873628 wrote:
           | It doesn't seem like this is intended to be reusable or even
           | useful.
           | 
           | It's just a college design project that gets the attention of
           | MIT branding.
        
         | jijijijij wrote:
         | How disappointing. Today it's all polyester, polyester and more
         | stinky polyester. Tomorrow the washing machine has it ground to
         | dust already, forever. Lucky us, this single-use dress is of
         | bespoke fit!
        
       | VoodooJuJu wrote:
       | Subtly paying homage to the classic Silicon Valley dress psyop
       | [1] with the different lit photos. Cute.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress
        
         | noman-land wrote:
         | How was this a psyop?
        
           | brvsft wrote:
           | No one sees anything other than blue/black. So there are paid
           | crisis actors out there lying about seeing other colors.
        
             | peterpost2 wrote:
             | why would someone be paid to lie about the colors?
        
               | brvsft wrote:
               | I'm being facetious in speculating how it would be a
               | "psyop."
        
       | YetAnotherNick wrote:
       | Did they talk about cost anywhere? Depending on it, it could
       | transform the industry or it could be totally irrelevant.
        
         | shrx wrote:
         | Spoiler: it will be the latter
        
       | empiricus wrote:
       | We are still making clothes like savages, with the only
       | improvement being the economy of scale. We should enter a store,
       | take a instant 3d scan, then get clothes that are custom made to
       | size, seamless knitted, of our choice materials, properties,
       | colors.
        
         | monkeydust wrote:
         | 3D scanning is getting there, e.g. https://www.aistetic.com/ in
         | UK which is being by a few online retailers. At least helps
         | with fit and reduces returns burden. Getting from that to
         | custom printed clothing is certainly and interesting idea if
         | the economics ever work out.
        
         | yeutterg wrote:
         | Bonobos has physical "Guideshops" [0] that do not carry all
         | inventory, but should carry a majority of the fits and sizes
         | offered by the brand. The idea is that you go in to find the
         | right fit, then you order your preferred color online. This
         | reduces physical inventory in stores.
         | 
         | Made-to-Measure is also becoming increasingly popular. While
         | costly compared to brands like Gap and Uniqlo, often you can
         | get well-fitted made-to-measure garments for similar prices to
         | mid-tier brands. For example, SuitSupply [1] offers made-to-
         | measure dress shirts, trousers, and suits for only slightly
         | more than their off-the-rack offerings, and FITTED Underground
         | [2] offers made-to-measure jeans that are still in the price
         | ballpark of premium selvedge jeans. Usually, these brands also
         | let you customize things like button colors, cuffs, collars,
         | monograms, etc. at little-to-no extra charge.
         | 
         | Even some shoe brands like Beckett Simonon [3] and BLKBRD [4]
         | operate on made-to-order models, reducing inventory, and
         | sometimes allowing customization.
         | 
         | All these options still rely on traditional manufacturing, but
         | just the fact that you can get the fit right allows people to
         | consume less.
         | 
         | [0] https://bonobos.com/guideshop
         | 
         | [1] https://suitsupply.com/en-us/
         | 
         | [2] https://fittedunderground.com/
         | 
         | [3] https://www.beckettsimonon.com/
         | 
         | [4] https://www.blkbrdshoemaker.com/
        
         | namibj wrote:
         | I am still searching for reasonably priced T-Shirts that only
         | have seams from the armpits to the hips (one such seam per
         | side), and optionally at the 4 holes for edge reinforcement.
         | Critically, this means no seams on top of shoulders by any
         | reasonable definition of what "on top of shoulder" means.
         | 
         | You could knit it on a tube knitting machine capable of
         | adjusting loop count/circumference freely.
         | 
         | But for a T-Shirt you have very fine knitting, so regular
         | knitting machines can at best do newborn-sized T-Shirts.
         | 
         | If anyone happens to know where I could order a dozen shirts
         | knitted to spec based on knit design rules and published-by-
         | them loop-pitch-after-first-wash from cotton, I'd love to hear.
        
           | yeutterg wrote:
           | What is the reason for not wanting the seams on the top of
           | the shoulders? Aesthetics? Weightlifting?
           | 
           | Not seamless, but:
           | 
           | There are a lot of brands that offer t-shirts with "raglan"
           | sleeves where the seam runs from the collar to the bottom of
           | the armpit, instead of along the top of the shoulder.
           | 
           | Or: I personally have a number of the Durable Shirt from Ten
           | Thousand [0], which has 2 seams on the front and back of the
           | shoulder instead of 1 directly on top. This is so you can put
           | a barbell on your shoulders comfortably, but I also like the
           | aesthetic. It also looks like they are currently out of stock
           | on these, but maybe they'll have more in the future.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.tenthousand.cc/products/durable-
           | shirt?variant=39...
        
         | kwhitefoot wrote:
         | The ultimate in fast fashion. The result might be a massive
         | pile of discarded clothes that fit no one unlike now when
         | discarded clothing is bought and sold sometimes several times
         | over.
         | 
         | Plus you have to bear in mind that for many people having to
         | make decisions about style, fit, material, colour, pattern is a
         | burden not a pleasure. People just want a new pair of jeans to
         | replace the ones that got damaged so next time they are in
         | Tesco's or Sainsbury's they just grab one off the rail and
         | throw it in the trolley.
        
         | TheRealPomax wrote:
         | The amazing part is that you're so close, but you're still
         | thinking like a savage: why would you go into "a clothing
         | store" for this? You take a 3d scan at home, and send that over
         | to the print-on-demand store that does spin-on-demand, for
         | pickup whenever you're out next, or delivery at a surcharge.
        
           | empiricus wrote:
           | A civilized person sometimes leaves the home.
        
             | TheRealPomax wrote:
             | Which was already baked into the last sentence, yes. The
             | point is that "going to a clothing store" makes no sense if
             | we're scanning for print-on-demand anyway. The scanning and
             | fabrication don't need to happen in the same place, and
             | once we're in a future where products are made on demand,
             | it _definitely_ doesn 't make sense to still have "a
             | clothing store". That's just something that any print-on-
             | demand store that also does fabrics can handle.
        
         | balls187 wrote:
         | Who is going to pay $500 for a t-shirt?
        
       | James_K wrote:
       | The text contrast on this website is awful.
        
       | m47724 wrote:
       | Andate a fare in culo
        
       | graiz wrote:
       | Ministry of Supply has always had great products, more people
       | need to know about them.
        
       | Yusefmosiah wrote:
       | synthetic fabrics in clothing are a major source of microplastics
       | exposure. In the future we will look back in horror at this whole
       | industry.
        
         | smegger001 wrote:
         | I wonder if the plastic we deposit into the environment will
         | form oil/coal deposit layers in a few million years? Or will
         | microbes develop means to digest all those energy rich hydrogen
         | carbon bonds those polymers are composed of. Much like our
         | coal/oil deposits date back to before evolution a means to
         | metabolize cellulose.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | "heat-activated yarns"
       | 
       | That's how much tight-fitting clothing is made. Raw spandex has
       | about a 10x stretch. But hot air will re-set the neutral point of
       | the stretch. So stocking, etc. are made by weaving a partially-
       | shaped garment. That's then slipped over a metal form that's the
       | size of the garment when un-worn. The form and garment are hit
       | with hot air for about a minute, and that re-sets the zero point
       | of the spandex.
       | 
       | Here's a pantyhose production line.[1] Forms and heat transform
       | it from a crumpled mess to a formed garment.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlzj9dy5PhA
        
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