[HN Gopher] Earliest forest discovered, scientists say
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       Earliest forest discovered, scientists say
        
       Author : The-Old-Hacker
       Score  : 39 points
       Date   : 2024-03-07 13:09 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.co.uk)
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | Interesting it was in the UK, I was expecting Australia or Quebec
       | where I think geological finds tend to be much older.
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | Terrestrial life is _young_ relative to the Earth.
         | 
         | The Earth is 4.5 billion years old. The forest described here
         | is between 358 and 419 _million_ years old, or rather less than
         | one-tenth of Earth 's total age.
         | 
         | Australian and Canadian shield formations date back as far as
         | 4.4 billion years. That far exceeds _any_ dry-land life, let
         | alone fully-developed forests.
         | 
         | <https://opengeology.org/historicalgeology/case-
         | studies/earth...>
         | 
         | At best you might find stromatolite beds, remnants of ancient
         | cyanobacteria growing in mats in shallow seas:
         | 
         | <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromatolite>
         | 
         | The formations in which the UK fossils are found were at the
         | time of their formation linked with the ancient Appalachian
         | range, parts of which remain now in north Africa, the eastern
         | US, Spain, France, Britain, Germany, Poland, and Czechia. The
         | Appalachians themselves are older than terrestrial life, which
         | is to say, older than dirt (which is itself comprised of
         | organic matter). There's a river which flows through the
         | Appalachians which is older than the mountains themselves. It
         | is of course named the New River:
         | 
         | <https://eos.org/features/the-new-river-gorge-ancient-
         | river-o...>
        
           | sandspar wrote:
           | Apropos of nothing but flowers evolved at about the same time
           | as Tyrannosaurus Rex, so you can imagine a T-Rex walking
           | through a field of wildflowers at sunrise, its legs wet with
           | flowers' dew.
        
             | vundercind wrote:
             | No evidence of grass before the very tail end of the
             | Cretaceous, either.
        
             | dredmorbius wrote:
             | And, as the response to your comment notes, grass evolved
             | only very late in the age of the dinosaurs.
             | 
             | When you think of the most prevalent varieties of
             | terrestrial plant life on Earth today, _particularly_
             | agricultural crops (wheat, rice, maize, all grasses), much
             | of it is _very_ recent evolutionary developments, and of
             | that, vastly further developed by artificial selection and
             | hybridisation by humans.
             | 
             | Legumes are also flowering plants, and seem to date back
             | roughly 79--74 mya:
             | 
             | <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabaceae#Evolution,_phylogen
             | y_...>
        
           | sriacha wrote:
           | Do you recommend any books on this theme? IE evolution of
           | terrestrial life, geology, etc. Would like to learn more.
           | 
           | I've greatly enjoyed 'The Vital Question' by Nick Lane a few
           | years ago.
        
             | dredmorbius wrote:
             | Not offhand, though Nick Lane's books come highly
             | recommended and are on my own rather expansive reading
             | pile....
             | 
             | David Christian's "Big History" looks at the past through
             | large frame, and includes the concepts of which I'm
             | discussing.
             | 
             | Otherwise, I've pieced together my understanding from many
             | sourcesl
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | Interesting, but on the wobbly side of science.
       | 
       | Trees are usually defined to be something very different from
       | cycads and palms. Today if these were growing, they wouldn't be
       | called trees, and their cluster not called forests.
       | 
       | And second, similarly to how 'there's no such thing as a fish',
       | it's been postulated that there's no such thing as a tree. Many
       | different life-forms that we call trees, have no known common
       | ancestor.
       | 
       | Make of that what you will.
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | The "there's no such thing as tree" concept is expanded here:
         | 
         | <https://eukaryotewritesblog.com/2021/05/02/>
         | 
         | This was discussed on HN a few years ago:
         | 
         | <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29621646>
         | 
         | I think it's fair to argue that the palm forests noted in TFA
         | _filled a similar niche_ to that of current tree-like forests.
         | All taxonomical groupings are ultimately grounded in practical
         | organisational utility for humans.
        
         | tejtm wrote:
         | As a non-biologist, long term I see tree-ness more as a
         | vocation that plants sometimes take up for a while, more like a
         | hobby than a biological imperative.
        
         | akira2501 wrote:
         | The title editing on this site is ridiculous. Of all the
         | "social" sites to game I've never understood the instinct as
         | applied to "Hacker News."
         | 
         | "World's earliest fossilised forest discovered."
         | 
         | Which is the actual title, more accurately describes the claim,
         | and is far less sensationalized.
        
       | INTPenis wrote:
       | .., scientists say. has to be my favorite suffix to any headline.
        
       | 8A51C wrote:
       | Coincidently, they also discovered 'living fossils' amongst the
       | entertainment acts at Butlins Minehead. Some were said to rival
       | the tree fossils in age.
        
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