[HN Gopher] Earliest forest discovered, scientists say
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Earliest forest discovered, scientists say
Author : The-Old-Hacker
Score : 39 points
Date : 2024-03-07 13:09 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.co.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.co.uk)
| jmclnx wrote:
| Interesting it was in the UK, I was expecting Australia or Quebec
| where I think geological finds tend to be much older.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Terrestrial life is _young_ relative to the Earth.
|
| The Earth is 4.5 billion years old. The forest described here
| is between 358 and 419 _million_ years old, or rather less than
| one-tenth of Earth 's total age.
|
| Australian and Canadian shield formations date back as far as
| 4.4 billion years. That far exceeds _any_ dry-land life, let
| alone fully-developed forests.
|
| <https://opengeology.org/historicalgeology/case-
| studies/earth...>
|
| At best you might find stromatolite beds, remnants of ancient
| cyanobacteria growing in mats in shallow seas:
|
| <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromatolite>
|
| The formations in which the UK fossils are found were at the
| time of their formation linked with the ancient Appalachian
| range, parts of which remain now in north Africa, the eastern
| US, Spain, France, Britain, Germany, Poland, and Czechia. The
| Appalachians themselves are older than terrestrial life, which
| is to say, older than dirt (which is itself comprised of
| organic matter). There's a river which flows through the
| Appalachians which is older than the mountains themselves. It
| is of course named the New River:
|
| <https://eos.org/features/the-new-river-gorge-ancient-
| river-o...>
| sandspar wrote:
| Apropos of nothing but flowers evolved at about the same time
| as Tyrannosaurus Rex, so you can imagine a T-Rex walking
| through a field of wildflowers at sunrise, its legs wet with
| flowers' dew.
| vundercind wrote:
| No evidence of grass before the very tail end of the
| Cretaceous, either.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| And, as the response to your comment notes, grass evolved
| only very late in the age of the dinosaurs.
|
| When you think of the most prevalent varieties of
| terrestrial plant life on Earth today, _particularly_
| agricultural crops (wheat, rice, maize, all grasses), much
| of it is _very_ recent evolutionary developments, and of
| that, vastly further developed by artificial selection and
| hybridisation by humans.
|
| Legumes are also flowering plants, and seem to date back
| roughly 79--74 mya:
|
| <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabaceae#Evolution,_phylogen
| y_...>
| sriacha wrote:
| Do you recommend any books on this theme? IE evolution of
| terrestrial life, geology, etc. Would like to learn more.
|
| I've greatly enjoyed 'The Vital Question' by Nick Lane a few
| years ago.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Not offhand, though Nick Lane's books come highly
| recommended and are on my own rather expansive reading
| pile....
|
| David Christian's "Big History" looks at the past through
| large frame, and includes the concepts of which I'm
| discussing.
|
| Otherwise, I've pieced together my understanding from many
| sourcesl
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| Interesting, but on the wobbly side of science.
|
| Trees are usually defined to be something very different from
| cycads and palms. Today if these were growing, they wouldn't be
| called trees, and their cluster not called forests.
|
| And second, similarly to how 'there's no such thing as a fish',
| it's been postulated that there's no such thing as a tree. Many
| different life-forms that we call trees, have no known common
| ancestor.
|
| Make of that what you will.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| The "there's no such thing as tree" concept is expanded here:
|
| <https://eukaryotewritesblog.com/2021/05/02/>
|
| This was discussed on HN a few years ago:
|
| <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29621646>
|
| I think it's fair to argue that the palm forests noted in TFA
| _filled a similar niche_ to that of current tree-like forests.
| All taxonomical groupings are ultimately grounded in practical
| organisational utility for humans.
| tejtm wrote:
| As a non-biologist, long term I see tree-ness more as a
| vocation that plants sometimes take up for a while, more like a
| hobby than a biological imperative.
| akira2501 wrote:
| The title editing on this site is ridiculous. Of all the
| "social" sites to game I've never understood the instinct as
| applied to "Hacker News."
|
| "World's earliest fossilised forest discovered."
|
| Which is the actual title, more accurately describes the claim,
| and is far less sensationalized.
| INTPenis wrote:
| .., scientists say. has to be my favorite suffix to any headline.
| 8A51C wrote:
| Coincidently, they also discovered 'living fossils' amongst the
| entertainment acts at Butlins Minehead. Some were said to rival
| the tree fossils in age.
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