[HN Gopher] Ultra Librarian joins Flux to take the hard out of h...
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       Ultra Librarian joins Flux to take the hard out of hardware
        
       Author : rock_hard
       Score  : 47 points
       Date   : 2024-03-06 18:27 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.flux.ai)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.flux.ai)
        
       | engineer_22 wrote:
       | I have not found Flux to be particularly useful. For schematic
       | design and PCB layout KiCAD is my go-to. Flux was difficult to
       | use and the purported AI assistance was non-existent.
        
         | polalavik wrote:
         | same I've tried to use flux multiple times and there's just not
         | an intuitive thing about it. I could barely draw a schematic.
         | 
         | I should add that I'm somewhat experienced as well. I've
         | successfully designed 6 layer boards with blind via, BGAs,
         | Bluetooth trace antennas before trying flux. Still have no clue
         | how to use flux.
        
       | swamp40 wrote:
       | Digikey has made Ultra Librarian famous. I wouldn't be surprised
       | if they were connected somehow. About 80% of Digikey components
       | have models. About 80% of those are Ultra Librarian models. About
       | 95% of the models are correct, which is a lot better than a few
       | years ago.
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | All of it is better than a few years ago.
         | 
         | I needed something with really complex footprint that no one
         | had, I contacted SnapEDA, and for $50 they did a model and
         | footprint in less than a day. Extremely worth the money in that
         | case.
        
       | peteforde wrote:
       | I spent several months working with Flux, and while I actually
       | generally enjoyed the UI and web-based approach, I had to switch
       | back to KiCAD because there were so many dealbreaking bugs in
       | fundamental features.
       | 
       | The realtime collaboration was just straight up broken; as in, my
       | collaborator would make changes that would not manifest until I
       | refreshed. This is unacceptable.
       | 
       | The PCB tracing was unusable because you could not control the
       | wires and things would appear in strange places. Forget auto-
       | routing... I had trouble just getting it to connect wires.
       | 
       | I could go on at (great) length, but while I genuinely am rooting
       | for the team behind this product, I can't recommend it until they
       | prioritize getting the fundamentals working properly over adding
       | new AI features.
       | 
       | That said, in attempting to work through these issues, I gained a
       | healthy amount of respect for how hard it is to create a viable
       | new entry in this domain. For whatever reason, it often seems
       | culturally normalized to shit on Flux and I think this is toxic
       | and unproductive.
        
         | bsder wrote:
         | Partnering with Ultra Librarian is simply going to make me more
         | inclined to shit on Flux, though. And I don't even know
         | anything about Flux.
         | 
         | These "library managers" like Ultra Librarian and SnapEDA are a
         | pox upon the ecosystem. The symbols and footprints have non-
         | open source licenses, so you nominally can't share them. They
         | simply want to get in the middle of your design so that they
         | can monetize you.
        
           | peteforde wrote:
           | Damn, I am apparently woefully ignorant of this. As someone
           | who is somehow both intimidated and fatigued of having to
           | track down multiple assets for every item in my BOM,
           | DigiKey's downloadables have been huge win... or so I
           | thought?
           | 
           | How does the licensing issue actually manifest in a practical
           | sense? By what mechanism(s) could this monetization occur? Is
           | this sabre rattling or are small hardware designers actually
           | getting bills for using premade footprints and models?
        
           | by_Seeing wrote:
           | In Flux, this closed source aspect doesn't exist. Any user
           | can fork and alter any part.
        
         | swamp40 wrote:
         | I don't see how it's possible to beat companies like Altium
         | that have been continually improving the sch and pcb design
         | experience for the last 30 years.
         | 
         | The AI is a cool idea. Maybe as an add-on? An import? A
         | library? Collaboration? IDK, but details like via tenting
         | properties on layer 3 are best left to the experts.
        
           | peteforde wrote:
           | I think it's a huge mistake for any ecosystem to be
           | impenetrable to new players with fresh ideas.
           | 
           | We see this in the web browser engine space with Chromium.
           | 
           | That's why I find the glee with which prominent EE community
           | types appear to condemn Flux really frustrating. Yes, Flux
           | has big problems and a huge mountain to climb. To me, that's
           | why we should encourage them. There are a million easier
           | things those folks could be attempting, so shitting on them
           | for trying to bring a new perspective is self-defeating.
           | 
           | As for Altium, I haven't used it because it's very expensive
           | and tied up in a larger enterprise ecosystem. It doesn't make
           | a ton of sense for solo or small-team designers to use a tool
           | heavily influenced and full of tooling for use by the world's
           | largest companies.
           | 
           | That's why I found Flux so compelling; my partner and I
           | actually want to use the "Figma for electronics", if such a
           | thing can be provided without critical bugs.
        
             | swamp40 wrote:
             | It's funny, Altium was the underdog for years. Only as they
             | continually improved did they slowly gain market share.
             | 
             | The tools need to work consistently, just like the tools of
             | a carpenter. If his hammer head keeps falling off, it's not
             | very helpful even if it was free.
             | 
             | My point was that it is really difficult to make sch and
             | pcb design _easy_ for the end user. There are already
             | companies that have climbed that mountain. AI is a nice
             | differentiator, but in my opinion a startup would be better
             | focused by working _with_ existing tools instead of
             | reinventing them (poorly).
             | 
             | Obviously startups are free to do as they wish.
        
         | by_Seeing wrote:
         | This is one of the more measured takes I've read about our
         | tool. I'm a product designer building Flux and I'd love to hear
         | more about your issues. If you're interested in helping us
         | climb that mountain faster, hit me up at brooks at flux.ai
         | 
         | Also, we're working fast to solve some of the issues you
         | describe. Have you tried us recently?
        
           | peteforde wrote:
           | Kerry was really amazing to work through issues with. He took
           | my feedback like a champ and was able to get a number of
           | issues addressed. I made it clear to him that I wasn't giving
           | up on Flux, but that I had to do the responsible thing for my
           | project and would check back in.
           | 
           | I transitioned my product to KiCAD in late December. I'll
           | definitely check out how things are going when I start my
           | next product later this year.
        
             | by_Seeing wrote:
             | Kerry is the best. Take us for a spin again and let us know
             | if you're still encountering issues!
        
       | cyberax wrote:
       | Now it needs to be integrated with atopile.
       | 
       | It'd be nice to be able to describe the circuit as simple code,
       | compile it, and then get it in the mail a couple of days later.
        
         | swamp40 wrote:
         | That looks cool.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Q0XVpfW3Y
        
         | Bluebirt wrote:
         | WOW. These two projects must be the most esoteric hardware
         | projects out there. Why should anyone use code for hardware?
         | This flux thing seems only to be useful for simple hobby
         | projects.
        
           | cyberax wrote:
           | Because designing hardware is a mess. Especially if you want
           | to tweak designs a bit.
           | 
           | I'd love to be able to design circuits the way I can do with
           | 3D printing.
        
       | dpcx wrote:
       | Having never heard of Ultra Librarian, I thought this was somehow
       | related to https://justgetflux.com/ and that they'd made a switch
       | from doing color changing to hardware.
        
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