[HN Gopher] Microsoft is ending support for the Windows Subsyste...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Microsoft is ending support for the Windows Subsystem for Android
       (WSA)
        
       Author : lemoine0461
       Score  : 197 points
       Date   : 2024-03-05 17:22 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (learn.microsoft.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (learn.microsoft.com)
        
       | mattl wrote:
       | Looks like support ended today, when did they announce this?
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | Announced today, support ends same day in 2025.
        
       | ComputerGuru wrote:
       | This is kind of weird since much of the tech is shared with WSL.
       | It also makes me question the future of WSL, though that would be
       | insane to deprecate given it has worked miracles for
       | rehabilitating Microsoft's image and Windows' usability.
        
         | throwaway2990 wrote:
         | WSL is used heavily inside MS. It's not going anywhere.
        
         | Kwpolska wrote:
         | WSL is an important developer tool, with a lot of (paying
         | corporate) users. WSA was a limited toy.
        
           | alkonaut wrote:
           | WSA is apparently also a godsend for android app developers
           | on windows.
        
             | Kwpolska wrote:
             | Eh, you can still use the SDK emulator, which is an x86_64
             | VM, and it has OK performance on reasonable hardware.
        
         | codeflo wrote:
         | At this point, Linux is so integral to Microsoft's strategy
         | that if anything, it's more likely that Microsoft would abandon
         | the Windows kernel and rebuild the Windows UI on top of Linux.
         | 
         | (To be clear, that's not going to happen, but it's also no
         | longer at the "hell would freeze over" level of absurdity for
         | Nadella's Microsoft.)
        
           | Twirrim wrote:
           | They're even already producing their own Linux distribution,
           | CBL-Mariner, https://github.com/microsoft/azurelinux
        
         | baq wrote:
         | WSL is what makes Windows viable in ML/AI at all. They've made
         | a correct (in hindsight it was genius, actually) decision to
         | expose GPUs in WSL using Windows drivers and a shim in a vm. It
         | works surprisingly well.
        
       | theusus wrote:
       | I feel like this was released just yesterday and now they are
       | ending the support. Why?
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | Really good q I'm shocked too. Riffing:
         | 
         | Without Play Store it's not viable/interesting. Also, it's so.
         | much. work. keeping up with Android releases, even inside
         | Google. Wear and ChromeOS are always a version or two behind,
         | and vast majority of the time, it is two versions.
         | 
         | If Google internally wasn't helpful enough to each other, I
         | can't imagine they played nice with Microsoft on this.
         | 
         | The broad business war means there's no incentive for VPs to
         | drive it.
         | 
         | Technical challenges via CTS* mean there's no incentive for 1-3
         | steps up the org chart to enable it.
         | 
         | The narrow-er business challenge of not having the Play Store
         | is the final nail for any cooperation. I don't think Google is
         | interested in proactively collaborating unless you do CTS.
         | 
         | * Android's CTS, compatibility test suite, has to be passed to
         | get the Play Store, and broadly, it is organized around
         | individual device launches, rather than a subsystem than can
         | run on any hardware.
         | 
         | (n.b. I worked on Wear then Android at Google, 6 years total)
        
           | asmor wrote:
           | Weirdly enough I had to do the compatibility hoops for
           | Waydroid, but not the commonly used WSA+MindTheGapps distro.
        
         | zoeysmithe wrote:
         | I imagine not only is this a technical challenge in general,
         | but the "best" apps require google integration and google is
         | giving devs and big companies incentives to require the google
         | play libraries, which this can't use. This has been google's
         | main dirty trick since the beginning, which is why you don't
         | see much competition in the android space. Its a few big
         | licensed players. Niche, homebrew, emulated, etc players aren't
         | going to get google certified. Android has just become MS from
         | the 90s. Google is a crony capitalist tough guy as much as MS
         | or Oracle or Apple, it just has better PR as being "friendly"
         | and "open."
         | 
         | MS also is clearly bribing/paying for big apps to come to its
         | Windows platform via the Windows store, so why bother with this
         | Android middle-man that is all trouble? Eventually the big apps
         | got to Windows Store and that's really all that matters to 90%
         | of customers.
         | 
         | Everything about this project was doomed from the start. I
         | think MS just has given up on apps and mobile and leaves that
         | to Apple or Samsung, who are now just caretakers for ios and
         | android at this point and mobile becoming a low/no profit
         | commodity in the long run, outside of payment processing.
        
           | bonton89 wrote:
           | Is the Windows store popular now? Aside from Microsoft dog
           | fooding I didn't get the impression it was very much used
           | even after all these years.
        
             | rightbyte wrote:
             | Last time I checked the MS store it was mainly bikini
             | wallpapers. Not kidding ...
        
               | bikson wrote:
               | Good enough.
        
               | FirmwareBurner wrote:
               | Bikini wallpapers?! Oh my god, that's disgusting! Where?
        
             | kyriakos wrote:
             | Not popular but usable now they allow any kind of
             | application and not just "modern apps". Main benefit that
             | applications update automatically but even though I do
             | install apps via the store I don't ever remember finding
             | apps through it. Maybe discoverability is just bad.
        
         | causi wrote:
         | It was useful as a way to pry people away from Windows 10.
        
         | stillold wrote:
         | They created a huge buzz around it, took over a year to release
         | and when they did so, released it to the wrong Insider ring, so
         | everyone who was on the fast ring specifically for and waiting
         | for it had to re-install.
         | 
         | I believe, without any proof, that this is why they had to redo
         | their rings and what they meant shortly after.
         | 
         | Then there is everything else people have mentioned, with them
         | being completely reliant on Amazon's store but requiring
         | "something" where most of the apps that are on Amazon's mobile
         | store weren't available.
        
         | creshal wrote:
         | I get a feeling whatever deal they had with Amazon over their
         | app store fell through. Nothing else I can think of really
         | makes sense to end support so suddenly.
        
       | stephc_int13 wrote:
       | I think that WSL is useful and used by many.
       | 
       | WSA, not so sure. Who is using it? They very likely have
       | telemetry and thus usage.
        
         | moolcool wrote:
         | > enables your Windows 11 device to run Android applications
         | that are available in the Amazon Appstore
         | 
         | This might be the crux of it. Google probably will never port
         | the Play store to Windows, MS doesn't want to maintain their
         | own Android app store, and Amazon is a competitor with a pretty
         | uncompelling app store to boot.
        
           | izacus wrote:
           | Google actually has ported Play Store to Windows, just for
           | games though: https://play.google.com/googleplaygames
        
         | andix wrote:
         | I'm using it from time to time. A lot of consumer equipment
         | nowadays can only be operated with Android and iOS apps. For
         | all those things I need WSA the Apps are off course not
         | available in the official Amazon App Store, so i had to
         | manually download them from f-droid and side load them with
         | ADB.
         | 
         | I can see why WSA is not such an often used subsystem.
        
         | alkonaut wrote:
         | > Who is using it?
         | 
         | Android app developers on Windows is a disappointed group on
         | Twitter at least
        
         | Spunkie wrote:
         | My laptop has a 4g module so I use WSA to run my mobile
         | providers app. So I can monitor usage and buy more packages
         | when I run out of data.
        
       | hiatus wrote:
       | > Windows Subsystem for Android(tm) enables your Windows 11
       | device to run Android applications that are available in the
       | Amazon Appstore.
       | 
       | This seems so niche it is not a huge surprise they are ending
       | support. Though at the same time, the initial article is from
       | August of last year so it had a very short life.
        
         | naikrovek wrote:
         | WSA was around a lot longer than that, at least in beta. But I
         | never saw any excitement about it at all.
        
         | oldnetguy wrote:
         | Agree without Google Play store it's rather useless
        
       | babypuncher wrote:
       | They killed any possible interest in this by going with the
       | Amazon app store instead of Google Play.
       | 
       | They also did a horrible job of advertising it. This is the first
       | I've heard about it from Microsoft since the feature first rolled
       | out in Windows 11 2.5 years ago.
        
         | bonton89 wrote:
         | IIRC it didn't even ship with the original Windows 11 release
         | and was a year behind or so. Did it ever even get out of beta?
         | 
         | This was the only feature of Windows 11 that was remotely
         | interesting to me. I guess I don't have to worry about missing
         | out on anything avoiding 11 now.
        
         | delfinom wrote:
         | The problem here is Google would have to agree to it and
         | license the play store for it, which they might have wanted to.
        
         | Spunkie wrote:
         | The heavy handed tying of WSA to the Amazon appstore is so
         | stupid it almost feels malicious. I've used WSA on multiple
         | computers and every time it's a pain to get it to the point of
         | usability.
         | 
         | Gotta mess with MS store > find WSA > install WSA > get adb
         | working > install f-droid > install aurora appstore.
         | 
         | WSA should have just gone with f-droid or better yet been tied
         | to no appstore by default and just ask for you to provide your
         | own appstore apk on first startup.
        
       | wiseowise wrote:
       | Didn't take long.
        
       | syntheticnature wrote:
       | The fact they're ending this makes me wonder if the rumors of
       | Amazon fully abandoning AOSP as the basis for FireOS are true. If
       | so, it would be ending it because there won't be an appstore with
       | updated apps before long.
        
         | Postosuchus wrote:
         | Doesn't make much sense. Building an ecosystem is far, far more
         | difficult than throwing together a small embedded OS. Just ask
         | Samsung and LG (and Google for that matter). Maybe Amazon has
         | enough clout to force all streaming app developers (and game
         | developers, which is the new frontier, and ad platforms) to
         | suck it down and build support for the new platform but I doubt
         | it - plus the ROI is just not there. Why destroy an active well
         | working ecosystem - to accomplish what exactly?!
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | The rumors are there, because apparently Amazon wants it to
           | be a kind of media center only, and prime products, nothing
           | else.
           | 
           | I can understand them, my LG with WebOS is good enough for
           | similar purposes.
        
             | Postosuchus wrote:
             | > wants it to be a kind of media center only
             | 
             | Again, to accomplish this goal, one has to:
             | 
             | - Build a credible software stack - from UI kits to audio
             | and video codecs
             | 
             | - Convince the streaming companies to build one more flavor
             | of their apps (in addition to Android/FTV, AppleTV, Roku,
             | and a bunch of SmartTV platforms)
             | 
             | - Build ad stack and also convince major ad platforms to
             | build their respective ad SDKs for the new platform
             | (believe me, even for established platforms this takes
             | years)
             | 
             | And all of this - to accomplish precisely what??? To wean
             | away from Android? Why? There are no licensing issues,
             | Amazon has grown a tremendous expertise in Android, which
             | underlies most of its devices. Why throw all of this
             | away???
             | 
             | Unlike Amazon, Samsung is much more tethered to Google,
             | because they cannot afford to diverge in Android experience
             | for the phones. They tried to cut this Gordian Knot by
             | building Tizen and they learned their lesson the hard way.
             | But at least for them there was a strategic benefit of
             | moving away from Android. There is no such benefit for
             | Amazon.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | Who says they are throwing away their existing media
               | stack?
               | 
               | Who says they care about apps from third parties?
               | 
               | Amazon Prime already has its UI.
        
         | pquki4 wrote:
         | It's not possible before Amazon can build their own browser
         | that runs on their own OS. (Or, if they can somehow get the
         | Android/Linux version of Chrome run on the OS.) As simple as
         | that.
        
           | hughesjj wrote:
           | So, silk?
           | 
           | https://docs.aws.amazon.com/silk/latest/developerguide/what-.
           | ..
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | I found WSA kind of handy to run Pocket Casts on old Microsoft
       | Surface Tablet. Had to jump through some hoops to install Google
       | Play first.
       | 
       | What's the best alternative? Bluestacks seems very shady. Chrome
       | OS Flex in a VM? (Scratch that. It looks like Chrome OS Flex
       | doesn't allow Android apps)
       | 
       | P.S. Do we make "jokes" about Microsoft killing things off like
       | we do with Google?
        
         | KeplerBoy wrote:
         | What's wrong with the pocket casts webapp?
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | Only available to paid subscribers.
        
           | jccalhoun wrote:
           | I use the android version through WSA because it supports
           | chapters which the web version doesn't and it also does a
           | better job of remembering my location when I switch from it
           | to my actual phone than the web app does.
        
           | djfdat wrote:
           | Loses some of the audio features, such as Trim Silence and
           | per-podcast speed and skip settings.
        
         | IggleSniggle wrote:
         | We are more cynical with Microsoft, and joke about embrace
         | extend extinguish.
        
         | SlackingOff123 wrote:
         | I found the best alternative to be the Pocket Casts web player.
         | It's not as good as the mobile app, but I find it serviceable.
        
         | jwells89 wrote:
         | Haven't messed with either personally, but maybe Waydroid can
         | be coaxed into running through WSL?
        
         | commoner wrote:
         | > What's the best alternative?
         | 
         | Waydroid runs Android apps on Linux and some people claim to
         | have gotten it to work on WSL.
         | 
         | - Waydroid: https://waydro.id
         | 
         | Reddit threads:
         | 
         | -
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/bashonubuntuonwindows/comments/eofn...
         | 
         | -
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/waydroid/comments/10y813d/is_it_pos...
         | 
         | -
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/waydroid/comments/14e6t3g/does_maki...
        
           | olabyne wrote:
           | Waydroid was a bliss to install on fedora. It does run very
           | well now, a big improvement from the first releases
        
         | sphars wrote:
         | > P.S. Do we make "jokes" about Microsoft killing things off
         | like we do with Google?
         | 
         | Well someone went ahead and made
         | https://killedbymicrosoft.info/
        
           | ziddoap wrote:
           | Fun site! A few products were pretty nostalgic, others
           | were... interesting!
           | 
           | > _ILoo_
           | 
           | > _Killed almost 21 years ago, iLoo was a smart portable
           | toilet integrating the complete equipment to surf the
           | Internet from inside and outside the cabinet. It was 13 days
           | old._
        
           | djmips wrote:
           | The difference for me is that the Killed by Microsoft has
           | products I never used or cared about or I'm happy they killed
           | them (looking at you Visual Sourcesafe) - cool site though -
           | very interesting retrospective.
        
         | chasil wrote:
         | Can this be run in Hyper-V?
         | 
         | https://www.android-x86.org/
        
           | mdaniel wrote:
           | The trick to that is similar to the Intel/Apple split: just
           | having the OS doesn't help if the apps are for a different
           | architecture. (I'm aware of qemu/Rosetta/etc but that's not
           | something that Android has ever tried to solve (AFAIK) -
           | rather, they declare any native library packages at the .apk
           | level and one is expected to pick the right installer for the
           | right architecture)
        
             | chasil wrote:
             | I think that Android-x86 has an ARM emulator.
             | 
             | Doesn't Dalvik/ART compile Java Bytecode down to a native
             | layer anyway, so this wouldn't matter?
        
               | bitwize wrote:
               | It does matter because lots of Android apps (esp. games)
               | have native-code bits in them that are linked in with
               | JNI.
        
       | partiallypro wrote:
       | I think one thing that really killed it is that the Amazon store
       | is very scarce. I never used it, in part because none of the
       | "good" apps were in the store. I'm surprised Amazon still even
       | has an Android store.
        
         | DistractionRect wrote:
         | Amazon has their own Android tablets, tvs so they have a vested
         | interest in running their own store.
         | 
         | Unfortunately, shipping Google Apps (GApps) requires meeting
         | certain standards and conditions, which WSA was likely unable
         | to do. Since GApps gatekeep the majority of the average persons
         | Android experience, WSA was doomed for most everyone except the
         | techies that could shoe horn GApps onto WSA.
         | 
         | The real problem is the on going engineering effort required to
         | update and maintain WSA. Google can't even do it for Chrome OS,
         | we're on Android 14 but ChromeOS is still on 11 (at least as of
         | Dec 2023). It's just a different beast than a Linux subsystem.
        
       | PreInternet01 wrote:
       | So, this is the second time a "run your Android apps on Windows"
       | initiative fizzles out: before WSA (which was Amazon-centric),
       | there was a late-2020 "Your Phone" feature that (briefly) allowed
       | Samsung apps on Windows desktops.
       | 
       | Not sure if this means anything other than "phone apps run best
       | on, well, a phone", especially since I can't think of anything
       | from my phone that I would truly like on my desktop, other than
       | instant messages, which are already available in various ways?
        
         | bsimpson wrote:
         | If I ran Windows on my Legion Go, I'd probably be looking into
         | WSA.
         | 
         | Windows is famously crappy on touchscreens. It would be really
         | nice to have something like ChromeOS or Android be the UI for a
         | gaming handheld.
        
         | hiccuphippo wrote:
         | I remember sometime in the last decade Google had an extension
         | to run Android apps in Chrome. I tested it with a comics app,
         | which I wanted for the bigger screen, and it worked fine. When
         | I tried to search for the extension years later I couldn't find
         | it.
        
           | nedrylandJP wrote:
           | I remember ARChon Runtime: https://archon-runtime.github.io/
        
           | geku3 wrote:
           | It was called ARC Welder.
        
           | mdaniel wrote:
           | while not as fun as "in Chrome," I can this second run quite
           | a few Android apps in ChromeOS on my Pixelbook. They are a UI
           | abomination, but it does give me "local" access to 1Password
           | and a few other things which would be annoying as PWAs
        
         | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
         | There are plenty of applications I would like to run in a
         | completely sandboxed environment separate from the blast radius
         | of my phone. Anything by Facebook would be a given. Chat
         | applications which still do not have a serviceable web
         | interface. Whatever.
        
         | basch wrote:
         | I haven't tried it, but allegedly Outlook for Android runs
         | better on Windows than the new Outlook for Windows. Which makes
         | some sense, as one is a native app and one is a web app.
         | 
         | https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/i-ac...
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | Yeah I don't know how they plan to shaft business users with
           | that. It's so slow.
           | 
           | I noticed recently that Microsoft relented and soon starts
           | introducing CoPilot features into old outlook (or 'real' or
           | 'full' outlook as people are calling it at work). Previously
           | it was coupled to 'new' outlook only to promote adoption. But
           | it really sees a lot of pushback from users. I hope this will
           | continue into not canning the real outlook at all.
           | 
           | Microsoft are always pushing 'more change management' as a
           | 'solution' but some changes are simply not good and it's
           | normal for users to resist. If anything they push too much
           | (like turning on features by default, and sending reminders
           | that you have not used feature xyz enough last week through
           | Viva Insights)
           | 
           | And the skullduggery they're doing with the consumer windows
           | mail migration (pulling the user's email into their cloud
           | without making this very clear) is totally out of line IMO.
           | 
           | Personally I don't even hate the web version so much. I use
           | it daily because Microsoft never made a native outlook for my
           | platform anyway. But I'm not a heavy user of mail and I do
           | see its limitations.
        
             | basch wrote:
             | its sort of the business model at this point. you cant just
             | subscribe to security updates without new features. to
             | justify the cost they always have to cram new, and by new i
             | mean change.
             | 
             | google feels the same way. things that work need to be
             | rebuilt and rereleased to justify headcount.
             | 
             | the mail -> new outlook is just another in the long
             | tradition of microsoft pushing a new native gui framework,
             | only to abandon it in house. How can they ever expect
             | developers developers developers to commit to another
             | future abandonware.
             | 
             | https://irrlicht3d.org/index.php?t=1626
             | 
             | they really should be going in reverse and making all their
             | apps pure native and then getting them to also render as
             | html.
        
             | TeMPOraL wrote:
             | New Outlook still doesn't handle S/MIME. That means it's
             | between annoying to useless in large companies, depending
             | on the volume of such e-mails you're getting.
        
               | jamal-kumar wrote:
               | What email client is popular in large enterprises then?
               | Last time I worked in a company like that it was all
               | microsoft software, including outlook, by policy
        
               | w3ll_w3ll_w3ll wrote:
               | Old Outlook
        
             | chris_wot wrote:
             | Microsoft love to force things onto end users these days.
             | The latest thing is the "focussed inbox". Suddenly our
             | school had it enabled and a whole bunch of people didn't
             | see their emails as it hived them off to the Other tab.
        
           | leptons wrote:
           | >one is a web app.
           | 
           | Still using the Outlook application installed on Windows.
           | Recently purchased Office 2021 (for $40, they had a sale)
           | which came with the Outlook application. It does get updates
           | every now and then so I know they're still supporting it.
           | I've been using the Outlook application for a few decades, no
           | plan to stop, and I will never use their online version.
        
           | sonicanatidae wrote:
           | Outlook is hot garbage and has been for a lot time. Every
           | single version.
        
             | stronglikedan wrote:
             | I can't operate without it (the Windows native version).
             | Everything else pales in comparison from a productivity
             | standpoint.
        
             | shp0ngle wrote:
             | Bad take. The old native Outlook is actually great. The web
             | version is fine.
             | 
             | The new Electron monster is horrible and looks like a toy.
        
           | dev1ycan wrote:
           | The prior mail app lacked many things/opening images and such
           | was broken, but it was incredibly lightweight and did its
           | job, then MS decided to kill it and add a gigabloated version
           | of web outlook that runs worse than outlook directly on the
           | web...
           | 
           | Never change Microsoft
        
           | wredue wrote:
           | I can say that New Outlook is slow as fuck, does
           | counterintuitive things (especially with actions on multiple
           | selections), and has hordes of other somewhat annoying bugs
           | (for example, deleting many emails will often count you as a
           | double click.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | If you're counting that, than this is the 3rd time.
         | 
         | The first one was Project Astoria, whose ashes gave birth to
         | WSL.
        
           | mook wrote:
           | That would have been WSL1, right? As in, the thing that tried
           | to implement Linux syscall interfaces on top of the Windows
           | kernel?
           | 
           | The current thing (WSL2) is "just" a VM (with lots of work to
           | make it work nicer)...
        
             | creshal wrote:
             | > As in, the thing that tried to implement Linux syscall
             | interfaces on top of the Windows kernel?
             | 
             | It's really funny, NT was supposed to be great at three
             | things:
             | 
             | - be easily ported to different hardware architectures,
             | which then never actually became relevant (and nowadays
             | macOS is the best example for actual architecture
             | migrations!)
             | 
             | - have a much more sophisticated and elaborate security
             | model than those filthy unices (and now we're getting sudo
             | on Windows, because 30 years later, it's still too
             | complicated for anyone to use as intended)
             | 
             | - allow fluid switching between different userlands, be it
             | win32, OS/2 (RIP), Unix (RIP), and anything else you could
             | want in the future! (except no, you're getting VMs now)
        
               | cherryteastain wrote:
               | >macOS is the best example for actual architecture
               | migrations
               | 
               | Eh, they did 2 migrations while supporting at most 2
               | architectures concurrently. Nothing compared to Linux
               | which is maintained for x86, POWER, ARM, s390x, MIPS etc
               | concurrently
        
               | ArchOversight wrote:
               | macOS did migrations. Linux is just supported on those
               | architectures at the same time without any real layer
               | that allows users to switch from for example x86 to ARM
               | without recompiling the entire world to match.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | > security
               | 
               | Who cares, everyone either misplaces ACL's or ran
               | everything as Administrator or close.
               | 
               | Under Linux/Unix, we had ACL's too, but nobody used them
               | unless you were in a networked environment.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | The issue with VMs for Linux, which Windows isn't the
               | first, rather the last from several attempts done by UNIX
               | vendors, and IBM/Unisys mainframes/micros is that Linux
               | kernel syscalls have become more relevant than POSIX.
               | 
               | Thus it is easier and cheaper to plug a Linux VM, than
               | implement POSIX, and then get the same kind of complaints
               | from Linux folks using macOS, or other UNIX proper
               | environments.
        
         | izacus wrote:
         | Well, you're a bit cherry picking here aren't you? Ignoring big
         | success of software like Bluestacks, which is spawning these
         | competitors?
        
         | novagameco wrote:
         | Your phone is still available and really cool. But it mirrors
         | your phone instead of running the apps on your PC
        
         | bonton89 wrote:
         | My user case could basically be summed as running apps that I
         | never wanted on my phone in the first place.
        
         | freitasm wrote:
         | > So, this is the second time a "run your Android apps on
         | Windows" initiative fizzles out: before WSA (which was Amazon-
         | centric), there was a late-2020 "Your Phone" feature that
         | (briefly) allowed Samsung apps on Windows desktops.
         | 
         | This feature still exists and it works. It's partly developed
         | by Samsung, so that's why it works.
        
         | mnahkies wrote:
         | Some of the challenger banking apps are mobile only which might
         | be a use-case. Ideally I'd like to see them offer a
         | desktop/responsive web app though
        
           | kevincox wrote:
           | Most of these use device attestation anyways so they are
           | unlikely to run on Windows. The bank wants to ensure that the
           | user doesn't have root access which isn't the case on
           | Windows.
        
         | bane wrote:
         | Not super well supported, but there's a Samsung Dex app for
         | Windows and MacOS (I think unsupported now) that let's you plug
         | your phone into your computer, and get Dex in a window. Runs
         | the phone apps on the phone, gets your android store etc. but
         | you get an "ok" minimal desktop that lets you do your phone
         | stuff with a mouse and keyboard.
         | 
         | After I figured that out I basically dropped all the run
         | Android on a desktop things.
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | There's also https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy which works
           | for any Android, not just Samsung
        
         | sockdolager wrote:
         | Your Phone / Phone Link still supports this. See:
         | https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/topic/setting-up-apps-
         | in....
        
         | 13of40 wrote:
         | I was using the Google Photos map search via BlueStacks on my
         | Windows machine briefly, but that's only because Google made
         | the perplexing decision to not put that on desktop.
        
         | skissane wrote:
         | > Not sure if this means anything other than "phone apps run
         | best on, well, a phone", especially since I can't think of
         | anything from my phone that I would truly like on my desktop,
         | other than instant messages, which are already available in
         | various ways?
         | 
         | Sometimes I go to this coworking space. They have an
         | iOS/Android app you need to use to book a desk, message the
         | admins, unlock the front door, pay, etc. No web app. Forces me
         | to get my phone out when I'd rather just stay on my laptop. If
         | I could run their app on my laptop (haven't looked into it
         | yet), I'd like that
        
           | uncletammy wrote:
           | It forces you to consent to whatever arbitrary EULA that the
           | people running the coworking space probably haven't read.
        
             | skissane wrote:
             | You can do that in a webapp too. At first login, you have
             | to click "Agree" to lengthy terms and conditions displayed.
             | Until you click "Agree", your login session is only good
             | for the terms screen, not the rest of the webapp.
        
         | kyriakos wrote:
         | "Your phone" feature still works. Apps don't run on your PC but
         | are displayed on the PC desktop from your phone. I have a
         | Samsung phone and use this feature dialy.
        
         | akira2501 wrote:
         | > especially since I can't think of anything from my phone that
         | I would truly like on my desktop
         | 
         | The SMS and Calls.
         | 
         | Seriously, at this point, my phone is the least useful device I
         | own for managing both of these functions. The only utility in
         | having them in some broken down hard to use form is for the
         | slight convenience of being able to use them outside of my home
         | if I wanted to. I rarely want to. I'd much prefer these
         | functions to be on my PC.
         | 
         | It'd also mean I could just ignore my phone much more
         | effectively and just pick up on everything at my desk when i
         | get home.
        
           | sudosysgen wrote:
           | I use KDE connect for that on Windows too, it does both SMS
           | and calling. Your phone only needs to be in the same network
           | which isn't an issue on your desk when you get home.
        
             | nullwarp wrote:
             | Yeah KDE connect fan here - works great absolutely amazing
             | piece of open source software.
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | I used it (Windows Subsystem for Android) to install Kindle on a
       | Windows ARM tablet.
       | 
       | I really liked it, but I found the native version of Kindle ran
       | better because there wasn't the "startup" hit.
        
       | PhyllisEngine wrote:
       | I work a lot with Android, but didn't really have much reason to
       | use it when I can just run an emulator. It's sad to see Microsoft
       | killing it so early.
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | What emulators do you reccomend?
        
       | watermelon0 wrote:
       | Worth mentioning, although this was launched 2 years ago, it's
       | still not available in many countries:
       | https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/countries-and-re...
        
       | jjordan wrote:
       | This is such a bummer. I've been waiting to use Android apps like
       | native apps on Windows for years since they first started teasing
       | this. What's the next best thing?
        
         | heresaPizza wrote:
         | I tried it and it was not worthy. The thing they showed the
         | most was tiktok, that has a decent web app and looks much
         | better on a big display. The same applies for basically all of
         | them.
        
       | Tiberium wrote:
       | Interesting to note that there's an alternative specifically for
       | running Android games on Windows - Google Play Games [1] which is
       | Google's official offering, and it does not rely on WSA tech so
       | that it works on Windows 10 as well.
       | 
       | [1] - https://play.google.com/googleplaygames
        
         | MenhirMike wrote:
         | Looks similar to BlueStacks or MSI App Player, especially since
         | it also requires hardware virtualization, so I assume it's like
         | the Android SDK (that I think used QEMU?). Definitely worth
         | looking at if there are Android apps that you want to run on a
         | Desktop. (I used it for the Ace Attorney games before we got
         | proper ports to modern systems.)
        
         | rdudek wrote:
         | I just wish it had support for the full Google Play store and
         | not something super limited.
        
           | mdaniel wrote:
           | "Limited" is too limited of a word: as very best I can tell
           | from the several times I've tried it they seem to do
           | everything in their power to cherry-pick the most spammy ad-
           | ridden garbage one could possibly want to see from the Play
           | Store. So, OT1H, sure, I get it, ad-tech company wants the
           | biggest ad-vector they can get; OTOH, it still has to be
           | something folks _want_ to play and so their gamble did not
           | pay off when I instaclosed their spam-store offering and saw
           | _zero_ ads
        
         | nashashmi wrote:
         | Also, LD Player is an alternative. It is from a Chinese
         | company.
        
         | fifteen1506 wrote:
         | Doesn't run on some hardware where Bluestacks does.
        
       | asveikau wrote:
       | The idea made more sense when Windows Phone was something they
       | were still pursuing. In an alternate timeline, maybe it would
       | have been easy to run Android apps on Windows Phone. Of course,
       | you'd still wonder why not just use an Android phone. And I'm
       | sure it would have been botched by many caveats.
        
       | sonicanatidae wrote:
       | Of the 4 people affected by this, 2 are were just trying it on a
       | dare, 1 died, and the last one works directly for Microsoft.
        
       | dboreham wrote:
       | Hmm...MS has evolved into Google? I'm still waiting for WSA to be
       | released!
        
       | nor0x wrote:
       | WSA is a great feature for developers. not having to deal with
       | sluggish Android emulators was a big plus for me.
        
         | kllrnohj wrote:
         | Are you not using an x86 emulator or something? Forget to
         | install or enable your CPU virtualization extensions?
         | 
         | Because the emulator ain't sluggish, and if it is you'd get
         | that same sluggishness with WSA since it's largely the same
         | underlying tech. It's still using a virtual machine and
         | emulation, it's not like a simulator.
        
       | dakna wrote:
       | I had high hopes for WSA as an enterprise platform, not as a
       | consumer platform. Give enterprises an easy way to build one
       | custom workflow app for mobile incl. offline support and syncing,
       | then use the same app on your desktop. There is already great
       | tooling for work profiles and mobile device management. Too bad
       | this didn't get enough traction.
        
       | calibas wrote:
       | There needs to be more of a consequence for large companies who
       | create platforms like this, then get a bunch of developers &
       | users dependent on it, and then pull out the rug.
       | 
       | And not necessarily government regulations. Maybe a contract that
       | guarantees operation for X number of years should become the
       | standard, or even better, an explicit agreement to open-source
       | discontinued products so the community can continue running them.
        
         | elaus wrote:
         | Ideally people (devs) would remember companies like that and
         | avoid them in the future when they decide on which platforms to
         | build their next project or which APIs to trust.
         | 
         | But in reality people (me included) will be annoyed today and
         | forget it tomorrow, when a cool new platform is announced.
        
           | madsbuch wrote:
           | this is already the case. most devs I speak with stear away
           | from GCP for large integrated projects.
        
         | bsimpson wrote:
         | The usual excuse for not open-sourcing is that commercial
         | products aren't developed in a vacuum. Flash, for instance,
         | supposedly included a bunch of codecs that Adobe didn't have
         | the license to redistribute as source.
         | 
         | At a bigger company, there are presumably dependencies on in-
         | house build systems, standard libraries, etc. Maintaining open-
         | source versions of those is unfortunately a non-trivial task.
        
         | FiniteLooper wrote:
         | Ah yes, remember Silverlight?
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | Ah, the only feature that made me even remotely interested in
       | Windows 11... dead. Welp, I can tell my friends that Windows 11
       | is a _complete_ shitshow now, thanks Microsoft.
        
       | nwah1 wrote:
       | WSA was becoming an alternative to the Android Emulator for MAUI
       | development. This is the only reason that I'm sad.
       | 
       | They should just open source this and let the community maintain
       | it.
        
       | wly_cdgr wrote:
       | Prob just a way to hire good Android devs away from Google or
       | something. Can't believe anyone senior at MS ever really thought
       | this was anything but a technical/PR exercise
        
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       (page generated 2024-03-05 23:00 UTC)