[HN Gopher] Kagi and Wolfram
___________________________________________________________________
Kagi and Wolfram
Author : cwmartin
Score : 424 points
Date : 2024-03-05 16:50 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.kagi.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.kagi.com)
| elektor wrote:
| This is a wonderful and fitting collab!
| mannycalavera42 wrote:
| kagi is the new apple: shut up and take my money
| alchemist1e9 wrote:
| Yeah I'm very seriously regretting passing on the private
| investment opportunity that early adopters were given.
|
| I love the idea of Wolfram throwing his brainpower and
| associated ego behind this problem.
| syntaxing wrote:
| This is pretty damn cool. It might finally push me over the edge
| to give the subscription a go.
| paipa wrote:
| Just do it. Kagi has been my favorite $10/mo spent before this
| collab already.
| drcongo wrote:
| I pay for it for my entire company. Life's too short to make
| people click through to page 9 of Google to get past the ads,
| the spam, the malware, the made up AI bullshit etc.
| Toutouxc wrote:
| Just the other day I was searching for something on iOS and
| the results were really suspicious, they mostly didn't
| match the query or didn't make sense at all. My brain was
| going on autopilot and it took me a few tries to realize my
| Kagi extension was disabled and I was using Google.
| Tarq0n wrote:
| The cheaper 300 searches/month subscription is a great way to
| try it out.
| loehnsberg wrote:
| I've been using it for two years as my primary search engine,
| and they've been nailing it. Kagi's worth every cent. No ads,
| no need for DDG g-bang, because Kagi search results are above
| par, excellent support via email/feedback, ,,quick answer"
| feature gives gpt reply, and now Wolfram.
| digging wrote:
| I'm excited for this. I've found Kagi to be very useful having
| widgets like this, in addition to the search results being good.
| I still have DDG as my search engine for ephemeral searches[1] on
| my phone and I'm getting sick of it. I don't know if I'd say the
| result quality has been getting _worse_ , it's just not good and
| hasn't been for years.
|
| Kagi on the other hand feels like an ideal subscription service.
| It feels like what Google search wanted to become.
|
| [1] To force me not to leave open tabs I don't really care about,
| my default browser is FireFox Focus, which is strictly
| "incognito" mode, which means I'd have to manually log in to Kagi
| every time I did a search.
| bauruine wrote:
| You can use the session link [0] in incognito so you don't have
| to login each time.
|
| [0] https://kagi.com/settings?p=user_details
| aesh2Xa1 wrote:
| On mobile incognito you'd need to access that session link
| and go from there. You cannot just use the address/search
| bar, as mobile browsers like Chrome do not include a config
| to put the link.
| fs111 wrote:
| Mobile Firefox allows it.
| dingnuts wrote:
| you have to love that the GP says "browsers like Chrome
| don't allow" and the two responses under it are "Safari
| does" and "mobile Firefox does" -- literally the only
| other browsers in the mobile ecosystem
|
| maybe this limitation isn't "browsers like Chrome". Maybe
| it's JUST CHROME with the limitation, because Chrome
| sucks, and has for awhile now.
|
| It's almost like the developer of Chrome doesn't want you
| to use a different search engine. Funny, that
| aesh2Xa1 wrote:
| It's true on Brave, too. When I said "like Chrome" that's
| what I meant.
| drcongo wrote:
| On iOS Safari it works with the Kagi extension.
| justusthane wrote:
| Woah, what an awesome feature!
| eco wrote:
| You can get something somewhat similar to Firefox Focus in
| regular Firefox for Android by enabling the option to open in
| Private tabs by default and turning on tab auto-closing. That's
| what I did for a while when there were indications that Firefox
| Focus was about to be abandoned (which never actually
| happened).
|
| Even better though, now that Add Ons are opened up on Firefox
| for Android you can install Cookie AutoDelete. Then you just
| use regular tabs and can keep your Kagi cookies (and any other
| sites you regularly log into) but have it nuke every other
| site.
|
| There is also a Kagi Add On. It didn't do pretty much anything
| when I first installed it last year but it might work these
| days.
|
| Oh, and finally, there is the Kagi Session Link you can use
| that embeds a token in the URL so that you can more easily use
| it for something like a search provider in Incognito/Private
| tabs.
| BeetleB wrote:
| > [1] To force me not to leave open tabs I don't really care
| about, my default browser is FireFox Focus, which is strictly
| "incognito" mode, which means I'd have to manually log in to
| Kagi every time I did a search.
|
| I strongly recommend the Tab Wrangler extension. I set it to
| close any tabs that have not been visited in the last 6 hours.
| Of all the methods I've tried to deal with too many tabs, this
| has been the most effective.
| gyrovagueGeist wrote:
| The steve jobs example has a typo, "place of dearth"
|
| (https://kagifeedback.org/assets/files/2024-03-05/1709652268-...)
| digging wrote:
| Morbidly, it's still true.
| JZL003 wrote:
| I'm just happy if I can do some basic W|A without it being so
| slow. Things like dates or solving simple equations with unit
| conversion work great but is so slow on W|A. The actual wolfram
| language is fast, I just find their website feels slow (it's
| probably only 30 seconds)
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| I tried Kagi and it was meh. I may try it again if they actually
| integrated unit conversions in search results.
| tucnak wrote:
| Kagi does unit and currency conversion.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| It doesn't work that way in the actual search results:
|
| https://kagi.com/search?q=iphone+case+%2450..%2460
|
| All my results are in dollars. And they're not in range.
| Toutouxc wrote:
| Huh? How do you expect it to work? Do other search engines
| support this?
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| How do you expect "iphone case $50..$60" to be interpreted
| as not in dollars?
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Show in USD, CAD, EUR, GBP, BTC.. etc.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| I'm just confused why that would be expected behaviour
| unprompted, and particularly after you specified "$."
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| I don't _expect_ it to do any of these conversions,
| however it would be a noticeable improvement in terms of
| search.
|
| There was an old article explaining how Google
| interpreted "Polish" from "polish" in its search results.
| Of course, kagi, Bing, Google, etc. can no longer find
| this article..
| oidar wrote:
| Did you try quick answers? It works fine for your query.
| You just need to specify the currency.
| https://imgbly.com/ib/SfcLVHFMmV
| wielebny wrote:
| Pity it can't subtract time.
|
| > 16:28 - 14:50 = 22 hours and 22 minutes
|
| although, Google never could not too.
| menthe wrote:
| In WolframAlpha (no Kago subscription, but I assume it works
| just the same), to achieve your desired result, you merely have
| to use:
|
| > 14:50 - 16:28
|
| Or
|
| > 14:50 to 16:28
|
| It makes sense when you think of it.
|
| I've been using this for years, and it works wonders for
| datetimes too.
| mongol wrote:
| To me it seems to compute number of hours in the interval
| between those times.
| 0cVlTeIATBs wrote:
| I don't use kagi. On WA, this search results in the answer with
| a prompt with the engine's assumptions, and includes a link to
| change the assumption to "math" from "word."
|
| These prompts don't show on kagi? Seems like including them
| would be an avenue for improvement.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Yes, one vexing thing is the inability of search engines to
| convert time. 5209s to hours and minutes? Oh, _I still_ need to
| tell you how to do in steps. Why is this so?
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _inability of search engines to convert time. 5209s to
| hours and minutes?_
|
| Kagi just resolved "5209 s in h" quite perfectly.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Yes that's the news here, it now does all the math for you.
| Other search engines don't know how to do it -or- they only
| do the first step. Your example doesn't do what I asked. I
| want input to be converted to hours, minutes, and it should
| ideally give me both outputs: additional remaining seconds
| and the decimal. Wolfram Alpha's output has what I want,
| but it also adds what I don't:
|
| Input interpretation
|
| convert 5209 seconds to hours, minutes
| Results 1 hour 26.82 minutes <==OK
| 1.447 hours <==Not asked for Additional
| conversions 1 hour 26 minutes 49 seconds
| <==Acceptable interpretation
| Toutouxc wrote:
| I'm getting the correct result: "= 1 hour and 38 minutes"
| viraptor wrote:
| This is the amount of time between 16:28 today and 14:50
| tomorrow. You got a correct answer. Just not the answer you
| were thinking of.
| ec109685 wrote:
| How do new search engines like Perplexity and Kagi avoid getting
| rate limited or hitting captchas as they build and maintain their
| indexes?
|
| Sites have to make exceptions for Google, but likely wouldn't
| care enough to allow other search engines in.
| geoelectric wrote:
| I'm fairly sure Kagi reuses Google and Bing search results,
| then de-craps and applies your customized preferences to them.
| I'm not sure it even runs its own spider.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| Kagi sends "anonymized API calls to traditional search
| indexes like Google, Yandex, Mojeek and Brave, specialized
| search engines like Marginalia, and sources of vertical
| information like Wolfram Alpha, Apple, Wikipedia, Open Meteo,
| Yelp, TripAdvisor and other APIs," and also maintains its own
| "web index (internal name - Teclis) and news index (internal
| name - TinyGem)" [1].
|
| [1] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/search-details/search-
| sources.htm...
| snewman wrote:
| This does not seem to be correct. I asked Kagi "does kagi
| build its own index". From the first result (on
| help.kagi.com):
|
| > Kagi Search includes anonymized requests to traditional
| search indexes including Brave, as well our own non-
| commercial index (Teclis), news index (TinyGem), and an AI
| for instant answers. Teclis and TinyGem are a result of our
| crawl through millions of domains, focusing primarily on non-
| commercial, high-quality content.
|
| [Edit] I guess it is possible that Google or Bing are hiding
| under "traditional search indexes including Brave".
| mminer237 wrote:
| I believe Kagi just pays to use Google's and Microsoft's
| indexes.
| bigyikes wrote:
| Google sells their index??
|
| (Microsoft famously sells theirs to DuckDuckGo, right?)
| manquer wrote:
| Bing index has always been licensable , Yahoo was using it
| too, and they have other customers .
|
| I don't think Google has a publicly known licensing deal ,
| ilaksh wrote:
| They sell API access to Google searching.
| mrweasel wrote:
| Microsoft sells Bing to a ton of search engines, it has
| been the go to for everyone who wanted to run a search
| engine.
|
| Ecosia have also been relying on Bing, but recently
| announced that they've now added Google as well.
| neocritter wrote:
| Kagi's internal index seems to focus on sites that wouldn't
| necessarily block spiders.
|
| https://help.kagi.com/kagi/search-details/search-sources.htm...
|
| I've crawled small web sites (even hosted on major providers)
| to archive them and never hit a wall.
| flkiwi wrote:
| I've spent money on things because I had to, I've spent money
| because I wanted to. I have rarely spent money on something
| because the idea just sounded good and been so consistently
| pleased with what I received for my investment. It's not free,
| but Kagi is a small investment for a vastly improved (and
| customizable) search experience.
| TradingPlaces wrote:
| Best $10 I spend every month.
| x0x0 wrote:
| But how will you live with yourself when every search for
| library documentation or a programming language doesn't flood
| the first page with expertsexchange, w3schools, geeksforgeeks,
| favtutor, freecodecamp, and a pile of other tissue-thin content
| covered with popups?
| hnrodey wrote:
| medium is the 2024 expertsexchange
| pandemic_region wrote:
| You haven't lived until you searched and found something
| useful on expertsexhange. The euphoria is unparalleled.
| flkiwi wrote:
| It's like spotting a beautiful unicorn!
|
| I should boost expertsexchange.com in my kagi search
| results just for the joy.
| smsm42 wrote:
| I'm so old I remember the times when it was useful...
| darkwater wrote:
| TBH with a uBlock Origin + PiHome and some ctrl+f you can
| even find useful information in those SEO/spam sites ;)
| throwup238 wrote:
| Sex changes aren't just for experts anymore!
| andrelaszlo wrote:
| I love using WA as a calculator since it's so good at handling
| units.
|
| Silly example: I just tried "average distance to moon/Eiffel
| Tower height" in Kagi and got "= about 1.167 million" (powered by
| WA).
| rqtwteye wrote:
| Good to know! This will help in figuring out when reading the
| news and they describe everything in tennis courts , school
| buses and football fields. How do you convert from tennis court
| to school bus?
| ziddoap wrote:
| You forgot Olympic swimming pool as both a length unit and a
| volume unit.
| rgovostes wrote:
| It can't handle non-numeric quantities like "average distance
| to moon" but Google's calculator has handled calculations with
| units very well for 15 years at least. It definitely puts
| Apple's Spotlight calculations to shame.
|
| I find that W|A works fine until it fails to parse my query and
| then I have no idea how to fix it, because the syntax is
| unclear.
| 7thaccount wrote:
| There should be some doc on the English syntax. I wonder if
| WA lets you fall back to the proper Mathematica
| representation. Something like the below but in reverse as WA
| typically does the free form by default I think.
|
| https://wolfram.com/mathematica/new-in-8/free-form-
| linguisti...
| rgovostes wrote:
| You can input Mathematica (ahem, Wolfram Language). I
| suppose yet another use for LLMs: better translation of
| natural language input into structured Wolfram
| calculations. Unsurprisingly, they're already advertising
| "Wolfram GPT" and have added LLMSynthesize[] etc. to
| Mathematica.
| 7thaccount wrote:
| I assume the translation is a bit more rigorous than
| running through an LLM.
| rgovostes wrote:
| Which is the problem: It is using natural language
| processing techniques that were state of the art in 2009,
| but have been completely eclipsed in the past couple of
| years. The "rigor" tends to be at odds with the fluidity
| of user input: typos, search query-ese, ambiguity, etc.
|
| The challenging problem that Wolfram|Alpha tries to solve
| is conversion of natural language queries to structured
| ones. Although I doubt Wolfram's parser has been
| completely static for a decade, the most recent
| generation of language models are vastly better at
| translating natural language queries to structured ones.
| See also: how terrible Siri is at everything.
| dawnerd wrote:
| I just tried some time math and it got it wrong
|
| 3:38 - 0:10 = 8 hours and 32 minutes
|
| I'm guessing it was trying to convert it to times of day
| instead of 3 minutes 38 seconds.
|
| Interestingly if I click the quick answer button it gives 3:48
| as a result.
|
| Google - doesn't even try.
|
| WA directly also had to nudge it to use it as a unit instead of
| a time of day.
|
| Still some work to do here it seems!
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| > got it wrong
|
| But your query was ambiguous as written.
|
| 8 hours and 32 minutes is how long it takes to go from 3:38
| pm to 10 after midnight? Perhaps the am/pm thing is also
| underspecified, so it chooses the shorter time delta?
| dawnerd wrote:
| That makes sense, ideally it should come back saying it's
| unsure but here's the best guess. I like the way WA
| explains it directly. The problem with these quick answers
| is you still can't blindly trust them unless they show
| their work.
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| Exactly!
| daft_pink wrote:
| I'm really curious if they still maintain their privacy promises
| with wolfram results
| martinky24 wrote:
| Wolfram isn't really in the ad business, as far as I know. They
| probably retain queries blindly for metric tracking, but my
| (informed) guess would be that it's very separate from and PII.
| dewbrite wrote:
| > To ensure result quality, we automatically downrank pages with
| advertising and tracking, which are often associated with low-
| quality or machine-generated content.
|
| That is one of the most compelling things I've ever heard about a
| search engine.
|
| How well does kagi work for niche "reddit queries" like "best
| waterproof midi synthesizers reddit"?
| cngn wrote:
| There are built-in bangs for reddit, and users can prioritize
| reddit.com as a domain if they'd like.
| paradox460 wrote:
| Not only that, but you can make it rewrite _all_ reddit links
| to use old.reddit.com
| lolinder wrote:
| Yes! Instructions here (old.reddit.com is one of the main
| examples):
| https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/redirects.html
| tiltowait wrote:
| I do the same for Youtube links to Invidious.
| nerpderp82 wrote:
| Interesting https://invidious.io/
| kevincox wrote:
| You can also change your Reddit settings to use the old UI
| for www.reddit.com.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _How well does kagi work for niche "reddit queries" like
| "best waterproof midi synthesizers reddit"?_
|
| I've started using their quick answers to sort through the
| crud. In most cases, it catches and filters out the obviously-
| bought Reddit recommendations, surfacing bloggers and niche
| industry publications that did their own lab work.
| Terretta wrote:
| It has "lenses" that you can tailor yourself. Just pay and try
| it. Cancel if it's not your goto in a month.
| andrewstuart2 wrote:
| They have a free trial as well. I didn't even finish half my
| 100 free search queries before I decided to pay.
| freedomben wrote:
| In my case 100 was not enough. I almost didn't sign up for
| Kagi because I hadn't yet felt the value and configuring a
| browser to use Kagi as the default search engine isn't a
| zero effort task.
|
| It probably took me about 200 to 300 searches before I was
| firmly decided that paying for Kagi is worth it. If I
| hadn't been freshly mad about Google's declining search
| quality, and displeased with DDG for something they had
| recently done (can't remember at this point), after the
| trial I probably wouldn't have paid and just would have
| gone back to DDG.
| nerpderp82 wrote:
| The latency of Kagi is so much better than Google or DDG.
| Just for the responsiveness and ball of "stuff" that
| Google tacks onto the front of search is an abomination.
| Worth if for the latency and the kruft ball removal
| alone.
| xaro wrote:
| I configured Reddit as a "Lense" (similar to what Kagi uses for
| things like searching across Forums, or news). With that, now I
| have a simple toggle at the top of Kagi which allows me to
| immediately turn a search into a Reddit search.
| dvngnt_ wrote:
| i just pinned reddit, wikipedia to top so my searches will
| usually display them first.
| paradox460 wrote:
| Thats the best way, because then what you're looking for
| gets surfaced rather organically, and its right there, so
| you don't have to go out of your way to find it.
|
| Generally I've started using bangs and lenses for changing
| searches in a wholly categorical manner. I.e. the !i bang
| for image search.
|
| I did change the !p bang from podcasts to activating the
| programming lens, because programming tends to have a lot
| of terms that overlap with more general language, and so
| sometimes its nice to swap in and out of that mode.
| throwup238 wrote:
| I did the same and added a custom bang so I can use it from
| the address bar directly (!r pointing at
| https://kagi.com/search?q=%s&l=8 where 8 is the lens id).
|
| Probably least a third of my queries are preceded by an !r
| now. A third of the rest are now question mark queries that
| activates their AI fast answer. It's like the google info box
| on steroids since it can answer any query and it works with
| lenses to restrict the fast answer to specific domains.
| MostlyStable wrote:
| oooh, I didn't know I could do this. Doing it now. Thanks!
| EasyMark wrote:
| I've been using site:reddit.com for ages now on ddg.
| mmcclure wrote:
| It took me way too long to start using Lenses. I've been a
| Kagi user for a while now, but lenses never really seemed
| that useful. The unlock for me is that I'm often looking for
| 3D models, so I added one for all the usual 3D model suspects
| (Thangs, Printables, etc).
| x0x0 wrote:
| I think quite well. I've been using kagi for a couple months
| and I'm super happy with it, esp for programming-adjacent
| searches. You should give it a try! (not an investor, just a
| happy user).
| ericd wrote:
| Really well, I just have Reddit pinned so it's (almost?) always
| one of the top results, without having to add "Reddit". HN is
| another. Similarly, I have lots of domains that I've always
| hated seeing in results, nuked, so I never see them anymore.
| Kagi is amazing.
| smsm42 wrote:
| Just entered this query as is, without configuring any lenses,
| and got a bunch of results from /r/synthdyi. I suppose it's
| good? I imagine if you use reddit a lot, you should bump its
| relevancy and add a lens for it, as other folks here described.
| But from that I see, it does decently even without that - even
| for topics where there's a lot of garbage contents, like
| reviews, it returns mostly the legit review sites, even though
| choosing which one do you trust would be a challenge. If you
| have your preferences, then bumping the relevance for these
| sites is easy.
| pants2 wrote:
| Kagi has a built in 'Forums' search that limits results to
| Reddit, HN, and other high-quality user discussions. It's
| probably my favorite feature.
| thomassmith65 wrote:
| Does Kagi use Google to host their blog or am I misinterpreting
| the log entry of my pihole?
|
| blog.kagi.com (blocked ghs.googlehosted.com)
| freediver wrote:
| Yes, Kagi is using GCP (+ AWS + some baremetal)
| sdo72 wrote:
| Why am I starting to see a lot of promotional statements within
| HN? Are there any bot or some army of manual labor around?
| andai wrote:
| I think mostly a lot of cool stuff is being launched lately.
| But if I were a tech company, I'd definitely have a HN Plan ;)
| dotnet00 wrote:
| Kagi just happens to be pretty popular here, it's how I found
| out about it.
| sdo72 wrote:
| I have tried Kagi and I don't find anything magical. And I
| see a lot of testaments saying how good Kagi is, and most of
| them aren't in any specific comparison.
| dotnet00 wrote:
| For me just the ability to filter/downrank certain domains
| and the ability to rewrite urls (universally, without
| having a separate plugin setup on mobile devices) is a very
| specific example of what I like.
|
| Makes it easy to ensure that I'm always on old reddit and
| wikipedia with the better (older :p) layout. Also allowed
| me to clean up a lot of the results that I knew were from
| low quality domains, such as getting rid of pinterest since
| results from it almost never led to anything useful.
|
| I also enjoy the lenses, I hated how the Google results for
| recipes tended to only make already frustrating recipe
| sites even more frustrating to dig through. The small web
| lens is also very nice for when I'm already searching for a
| niche topic.
|
| Besides that, I also reflect the vague description of the
| search results seeming to be better.
|
| And of course on top of that, there's the lack of tracking
| and putting my money where my mouth is regarding preferring
| to pay for a good privacy preserving service.
| lolinder wrote:
| What exactly are you looking for in a testimonial? Do you
| want a side-by-side comparison of results or something?
|
| My experience has been that Kagi's customizations are the
| key selling point, allowing you to block and bump domains
| to meet your needs:
|
| * I have Wikipedia pinned, so if there's a Wikipedia
| article it's always the top result, whereas Google has
| lately started downweighting Wikipedia much of the time (as
| a simple example see COVID-19).
|
| * I have Pinterest blocked entirely, so I never see results
| from them. As an example, try "living room refurbishment
| ideas".
|
| * I have MDN upweighted, so it tends to rank higher than
| random people's blog posts for web dev queries.
| sdo72 wrote:
| If you need specific domains, you can always search
| within that domain. With Chrome, you can even setup
| shortcut to search certain places like Wiki. Most
| features I can do within Google or Chrome, and many
| things are still better within Google search and
| sometimes being paired with Chrome browser.
| ziddoap wrote:
| > _Kagi just happens to be pretty popular here_
|
| _Pretty_ popular?
|
| Outside of Rust, Kagi might have the most fanatic following
| of any topic on HN. Which, while I'm sure Kagi is very happy
| with, is really rather annoying as a someone who doesn't care
| for it. Every conversation search-adjacent is just comments
| of "I pay for Kagi and it was the best dollars I've ever
| spent".
| dotnet00 wrote:
| Yeah that's fair, I can see how the gushing might be
| annoying to someone who isn't interested.
|
| I tend to just ignore or hide the posts I find very
| annoying, but I understand that isn't necessarily how
| everyone is.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| I pay for Kagi's duo plan, $14/month or $151.20/year [1], a
| discount which implies a 10% cost of capital.
|
| At that discount rate, a lifetime membership at $1,680 would be
| rational for Kagi ($600 individual). And at that price, I'd pay!
| Hell, do $3k flat (5% cost of capital; ~$1k individual) and throw
| in an annual in-person event and I'd call it a great deal. For
| Kagi, moreover, it would be permanent capital.
|
| (I would also love for Kagi to launch a K-12 education product,
| possibly marketed at first to PTAs.)
|
| [1]
| https://kagi.com/settings?p=billing_plan&plan=family&period=...
| freedomben wrote:
| I don't think this would ultimately be healthy for Kagi. The
| continuing pressure to maintain the value of the subscription
| since people can cancel at anytime IMHO drives their success.
| andai wrote:
| Did kagi recently (past 12 months) add the unlimited plan? Last
| time I checked even my human search usage was way beyond their
| limits (Google regularly accuses me of being a bot!), and my
| primary interest was in 100Xing that volume with autonomous
| agents.
|
| Now it says unlimited, but I'm not sure "you and a swarm of a
| thousand digital clones" counts as fair use...
| golf_mike wrote:
| yes https://kagi.com/settings?p=billing_plan
| andai wrote:
| To rephrase my question, was the unlimited plan _not_
| available about a year ago? Otherwise I don 't think I would
| have disqualified kagi at the time. I recall the volume being
| too low for my needs, even _without_ hooking it up to any
| automated systems (which for me at least, was the whole point
| of looking into paid search engines).
| throwup238 wrote:
| Iirc it was available but more expensive as part of the
| Ultimate $25/mo plan.
|
| They made the $10/mo plan unlimited in September 2023
| golf_mike wrote:
| was it not available about a year ago? I'm not sure. Maybe
| the wayback machine can tell you. But I have a gut feeling
| that there is a slight misalignment between your use case
| and their intended use of their service :)
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _I 'm not sure "you and a swarm of a thousand digital clones"
| counts as fair use_
|
| It obviously does not. You're a commercial client.
| andai wrote:
| > You're a commercial client
|
| No, I'm broke and have no income. But about a year ago I
| wrote some 20 line Python programs that use GPT (feed it text
| from web searches) and was surprised to find they worked
| significantly better than Bing's AI search...
|
| I used it at a small scale with Python's (unofficial?)
| DuckDuckGo API, but I was looking for a way to scale up
| (ideally for free or very cheap). At the time, Bing's API was
| the best option I found, and it was pretty expensive.
|
| I think it would be really cool if I could have an autonomous
| agent doing research on my current interests in the
| background 24/7, but it seems my best option is a very low
| volume of (free) web searches to seed a small web scraper,
| plus possibly a custom-built search engine (see also
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38703943 )
| dotnet00 wrote:
| There was actually an outage due to this (their first major
| outage!) a few weeks ago. Someone was scraping via their API a
| little too hard, which had unexpected effects on upstream
| systems. So 100x human search volume is likely to be an issue
| unless you discuss it with the devs first.
| jamessb wrote:
| The page with the post-mortem for that outage now gives a 404
| error, but was archived by the Wayback Machine: https://web.a
| rchive.org/web/20240121000935/https://status.ka...
|
| (It was discussed on HN at the time:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39019119)
| MostlyStable wrote:
| >regularly accuses me of being a bot!
|
| >swarm of autonomous agents.
|
| So....Google is right?
| andai wrote:
| I haven't launched the swarm yet. Google is reacting to (as I
| said), my "human" search usage.
|
| (Also possibly Brave browser's anti-tracking, which their
| captcha system hates and actively punishes.)
|
| Apparently the average person does 3-4 Googles per day.. I
| checked my search history and I'm somewhere in the 100-200
| range.
| pmzy wrote:
| I've been a paying Kagi customer for a few months now. It has
| reconciled me with search. Result quality is great, and the tools
| like fastgpt and the summarizer are precious.
|
| I was a bit reluctant but I don't regret doing it.
|
| Really happy to see Wolfram added to it!
| paradox460 wrote:
| It feels like a glass of water on a hot day, when you didn't
| even realize you were thirsty. Suddenly you can find things
| again.
|
| Recently I've been adding ? to a number of queries, to play
| with its knowledge graph and answering capabilities. It's been
| remarkably useful at surfacing information.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| I think it was Scott Galloway who said that advertisement is a
| tax on the stupid and poor. It's been true for news for a long
| time. It's becoming, with Kagi, true for search.
| martinky24 wrote:
| This is probably similar to the Wolfram|Alpha + Siri integration
| (which AFAIK no longer exists):
|
| - Kagi will rely on Wolfram's okay-ish stack to immediately add
| features to their engine
|
| - Kagi will, over time, 1-by-1 remove the reliance on the
| (generally slow and expensive) Wolfram API with built-in features
|
| - Once the meat of the features have been rewritten internally by
| Kagi in more performant and self-controlled ways, remove the
| dependence on the slow and expensive Wolfram API
|
| Not saying that's a bad thing, but it's quite likely this is how
| it plays out. We've seen it before.
| 7thaccount wrote:
| I can see them doing that for some things, but kind of doubt it
| for the more mathy things.
| martinky24 wrote:
| There are things that move the needle (unit conversions) and
| things that don't matter as much ("how many tea cups of water
| would fit inside the moon"). It's the "things that matter"
| that get implemented and make the rest of it not worth it.
| zero0529 wrote:
| I bought it as I needed it for an exam that needed me to do a lot
| of research and it combined with bing gpt really was a big help.
| I probably won't use at as a main driver as I only have the 300
| search a month plan and I get a feeling like I wasted a search
| when I searcg something stupid like x documentation.
| jxy wrote:
| > welcome Stephen Wolfram to Kagi's board of advisors
|
| This is interesting. I guess we will soon read a longwinded post
| about it from the first person perspective.
| jerpint wrote:
| A new kind of search engine
| throwup238 wrote:
| Kagi-Wolfram derangement syndrome here we go!
|
| The Kagi goes first to get under his skin just a little bit.
| BeetleB wrote:
| Complete with how he played a major role in the early history
| of search engines.
| qwertox wrote:
| Wolfram Alpha still has the same old bug:
|
| https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=2016-04-04+to+2019-01-3... =
| 2 years 9 months 27 days
|
| https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=2019-01-31+to+2016-04-0... =
| 2 years 9 months 26 days
|
| The duration should be identical but is off by one day.
|
| One day a space mission will fail due to this bug.
|
| Reported several times, they never cared.
| nuancebydefault wrote:
| Both show 1032 days. Do space missions depend on such fuzzy
| defined time stamps as (calendar?) months? I think time
| dilation would be a much more serious factor.
| timthelion wrote:
| Is that a bug? I interpret it as from midnight 2016-04-04 to
| the first time which has the date 2019-01-31. That includes the
| full day of 2016-04-04 but nothing from 2019-01-31. This is
| contrasted with the opposite direction which is midnight
| 2019-01-31 going backwards, thus not including 2019-01-31 and
| all the way up till the first time which is 2016-04-04 non-
| inclusive.
|
| Date time arithmetic is weird ;)
| timthelion wrote:
| OK, I see, but it shows a different value for the absolute
| number of days, that's weird.
| qwertox wrote:
| If that were true, then this would be false:
|
| https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=2019-01-31+to+2015-10-2.
| .. = 3 years 3 months 10 days
|
| https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=2015-10-21+to+2019-01-3.
| .. = 3 years 3 months 10 days
| EntropicBrew wrote:
| This is fascinating. Even sillier example,
| https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=2019-01-31+to+2016-04-0...
| and
| https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=2019-01-30+to+2016-04-0...
|
| both show an identical duration of 2 years 9 months 26 days
| (edit: despite reporting 1032 and 1031 days respectively).
| pizzafeelsright wrote:
| Counting months and days are two very different metrics.
|
| Months are lunar. Days are solar.
| EntropicBrew wrote:
| Depends on the calendar system, as far as this discussion
| goes, the Greogorian calendar system is solar even for
| months.
| djha-skin wrote:
| > ...We are even thinking of providing a consumeable API for
| users to add their own widgets to Kagi search results triggered
| on demand (and shareable with others via an open-source
| repository[1]).
|
| Neat!
|
| 1: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/support-and-community/open-
| source...
| loehnsberg wrote:
| I'd love to see an IMDB widget.
| ckbishop wrote:
| Kagi is well worth the money. Just converted my monthly sub into
| an annual. It just flat out works better than any other search
| engine I've come across. Also, the ability to just filter/weight
| sites that it returns is incredible. I'm not sure how Google is
| this far behind at search, but here we are.
| sharkjacobs wrote:
| This is trite, but the simplest answer is that Kagi's product
| is search and its customers are users, and Google's product is
| ad impressions and its customers are advertisers.
| swyx wrote:
| TIL that Wolfram Research has 1000 employees. what do they... do?
| what is Wolfram's revenue? i'm completely out of the loop. This
| is the size of Automattic - which makes Wordpress. is Wolfram on
| that scale? idk.
| nullstyle wrote:
| Mathematica is a commercial product:
| https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/pricing/
| caycep wrote:
| Who uses Mathematica, in this age of python/Julia etc? The
| Grad student world seems to be captured by Matlab
| aheckler wrote:
| > This is the size of Automattic
|
| Automattic has almost 2000 employees.[0] I believe that number
| even automatically updates as folks come and go, but I could be
| wrong.
|
| [0] https://automattic.com/about/
| Thoreandan wrote:
| So.... this is about a pay-subscription search engine called
| 'Kagi' out of Palo Alto, founded 2018.
|
| Made me think and have to do some digging for the 'Kagi' out of
| Berkeley founded in the 90s where you could register your
| shareware purchases in the days before PayPal. Which seems to
| have been largely scrubbed from history outside of some WayBack
| snapshots.
|
| https://www.macrumors.com/2016/08/01/kagi-shuts-down/
|
| https://tidbits.com/2016/08/04/kagi-shuts-down-after-falling...
| dickfickling wrote:
| The two are unrelated, but they do reference the shareware
| platform in their FAQ.
|
| https://help.kagi.com/kagi/faq/faq.html#are-you-affiliated-w...
| the__alchemist wrote:
| Hey! This is off-topic, but I'm not sure where else to post it.
|
| Does Kagi hang indefinitely for text searches for y'all? I
| experience this behavior about 1/4 searches. No error; just no
| page load. I am about to cancel my sub and switch back to Google.
| freedomben wrote:
| This does happen to me sometimes! Not 1/4 though, more like a
| few times a day. At first I thought it was my internet
| connection but it happens often enough and is usually
| reproducible for about 15 to 20 seconds, so does seem to have
| something to do with the query.
| PcChip wrote:
| Works perfectly for me on various browsers and operating
| systems, and for my friends as well.
|
| Hopefully the kagi team will see this though and chime in, or
| you should report the bug
| freediver wrote:
| That sounds like a good bug report for https://kagifeedback.org
|
| Make sure to include example searches when this happens.
| bubu-bln wrote:
| Try getting on contact with them. They've been helpful when I
| had a problem. I've born tried kagifeedback.com and their
| e-mail support (two separate questions), and in both cases I
| received help promptly.
| Tarq0n wrote:
| I get sent to the login screen maybe once per day. Very
| annoying if you searched from the address bar because your
| query isn't preserved anywhere. Not actually logged out,
| resending the query works.
| anotherhue wrote:
| @the__alchemist emailed you
| stainablesteel wrote:
| i love kagi results, its a great search engine, and wolfram is
| quickly becoming the backend of the internet - which is fantastic
|
| fantastic news, really glad to hear about this
| omoikane wrote:
| I just tried all those demo queries in Google and it had similar
| output for all of them, except "MangoldtLambda[11]". Looks like
| that's a function specific to Wolfram.
|
| Bing couldn't answer "MangoldtLambda[11]" either, and it also
| couldn't answer "differentiate x^2 with respect to x", and didn't
| show a graph for "norway gdp".
| laserson wrote:
| One thing I miss from Google is relatively seamless integration
| with maps. Sometimes the address queries just fail for me on
| Kagi. And even when they don't, Google's maps are still far more
| useful IMO.
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