[HN Gopher] New EVs Still Can't Beat the Efficiency of a Plug-In...
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New EVs Still Can't Beat the Efficiency of a Plug-In Hybrid
Author : rntn
Score : 10 points
Date : 2024-03-04 21:18 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (jalopnik.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (jalopnik.com)
| duped wrote:
| New hybrids can't beat the efficiency of old gas powered sedans,
| because they're too heavy. The arms race that is car sizes in the
| US is insane.
|
| I drive a 2021 Lexus hybrid that gets about 35 mpg (in practice,
| not what the EPA rating says). My buddy drives a 2001 Civic and
| gets about 42 mpg. I'm pretty sure that Civic is going to outlive
| both of us, while I doubt that the Lexus is going to last a
| decade.
|
| And for reasons, I'm in the market for a car but don't want to
| pay EV prices. The PHEVs and hybrids are pretty compelling in
| terms of price, but their fuel economy leaves something to be
| desired. They're just too heavy.
| idontwantthis wrote:
| They are also so expensive. Niro hybrid: $27 k, phev: $34k
|
| With the hybrid getting 53mpg you would need to drive a crazy
| number of miles to make back the difference, but that crazy
| number of miles would all be in short trips so I don't see how
| it could happen.
| duffyjp wrote:
| Your Lexus is presumably an SUV? A bone stock 2024 Prius gets
| 57 mpg and has almost 200HP. I'm in a 2013 Prius C that gets
| nearly 50.
|
| My previous car was a 2000 Lexus ES that got 17 mpg. I
| basically paid for the Prius' loan with gas savings.
|
| I'm also in the market as 10 years is about the max in
| Wisconsin before everything goes to hell, and I'll probably get
| another hybrid. My wife had a PHEV for a while but we didn't
| save any money on fuel as electricity is expensive here.
| harkinian wrote:
| The hybrids use less gasoline for sure, when comparing apples
| to apples new car vs new car. Cost-effectiveness is more
| complicated.
|
| However, if you take all the compromises of a tiny
| late-80s/early-90s Honda Civic, it'll do 50-60 MPG.
| Gibbon1 wrote:
| When I was living an working in San Francisco I drove a full
| sized passenger van that got 15mpg. Was okay since I was
| putting 4000 miles a year on it. Then my company moved.
| Running the numbers buying a used Prius was a small win based
| on gas savings. But then a trip to Marin and back in the van
| was probably $100 vs $40 for the Prius.
| duped wrote:
| It's not an SUV.
| nimos wrote:
| Wish they would make an electric vehicle with a generator. Pure
| electric drivetrain with 50-100 mile range battery then stick a
| ~50hp generator in the "frunk".
|
| Seems like being able to pin the generator at optimal revs should
| make up for the inefficiency of the electrical losses? But not
| sure.
| lm28469 wrote:
| The BMW i3 has that
| harkinian wrote:
| Apparently also got discontinued. I didn't know that until
| now.
| postalrat wrote:
| You are close to describing the chevy volt
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt
| mouth wrote:
| You're describing the now cancelled Chevy Volt. The second
| generation (2016-2019) was advertised to get you 54 miles on a
| full charge before the generator kicked on.
| tom_ wrote:
| https://www.mazda.co.uk/cars/mazda-mx-30-all-electric/mazda-...
| might be one example - series hybrid with Wankel engine.
|
| The fuel economy does not actually sound very good, but
| presumably it's intended for use mainly as a plug-in EV that is
| suitable for longer journeys too.
| djao wrote:
| Wow, so I went and downloaded their "methodology" document. Some
| highlights:
|
| In prior years, they made an attempt to estimate the true fuel
| consumption and emissions rate of gasoline cars (which is
| invariably higher than the EPA figures), but in this year's
| edition they reverted back to the EPA numbers because "To what
| extent [the prior year practice] is appropriate for new vehicles
| today is unclear". This makes gasoline cars and hybrids look
| better than they really are.
|
| They assume that PHEVs drive 50% of their miles on mains
| electricity. This is, needless to say, a completely bogus
| assumption.
|
| They randomly add 11 cents per kWh to the cost of nuclear power
| to account for possible future nuclear accidents. Okay, whatever.
|
| Their "green score" function is heavily skewed to mask the damage
| inflicted by gasoline cars. The difference between a score of 71
| (Toyota Prius) and 57 (Tesla Model Y) is about 0.5 cents of
| environmental cost per mile. The difference between a score of 30
| (GMC Sierra) and 20 (Mercedes AMG) is 1 cent of environmental
| cost per mile. In reality there is a larger difference between
| the (bad) GMC Sierra and the (even worse) Mercedes AMG than there
| is between the Prius and the Tesla, but their "green score" makes
| it seem like the difference between a Prius and a Tesla is
| larger.
| pornel wrote:
| This has Toyota's fingerprints all over it. It's all of Toyota's
| talking points. It's especially suspicious that the top list
| includes Toyota's Lexus RZ and bZ4X which are _the worst by far_
| among BEVs [1] in terms of efficiency.
|
| [1]: https://youtu.be/c10Ck84QgEI?t=1289
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(page generated 2024-03-04 23:01 UTC)