[HN Gopher] Minimal phone gets back to basics with E Ink display...
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Minimal phone gets back to basics with E Ink display and real
keyboard
Author : airhangerf15
Score : 84 points
Date : 2024-03-02 18:06 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (newatlas.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (newatlas.com)
| browningstreet wrote:
| > The handset will feature Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, with 5G currently
| being explored
|
| If this could be a wireless access point, I think that could be a
| differentiator. I would love a more minimal phone for daily carry
| -- but when travelling, it'd be nice to connect my iPad/laptop to
| an AP for those things that need modern apps.
| dangus wrote:
| Lack of 5G is a major oversight. The iPhone had that 4 years
| ago. Good condition iPhone 12 models go for under $300, and
| they want to sell this thing for $400.
|
| Seems like it's better to grab an iPhone 12, set the screen to
| greysfale in the accessibility settings, and then turn on
| screen time to block social media apps and other distractions.
|
| An OS settings preference selection isn't a product.
| AlecSchueler wrote:
| > Seems like it's better to grab an iPhone 12, set the screen
| to greysfale in the accessibility settings, and then turn on
| screen time to block social media apps and other
| distractions.
|
| Better to use rsync than bother with Dropbox?
| dangus wrote:
| I've got major doubts on a lot of these claims. Shimmying modern
| Android into an e-Ink display and physical keyboard is going to
| be a strange experience even if you truly want a zero-distraction
| phone.
|
| Supposedly it's going to protect your privcy but they also claim
| you can just download apps from the Play store. Seems like a bit
| of an unnecessary promise.
|
| Navigation with map apps in particular is going to be awful on
| the e-ink display. Really, a lot of "basic" non-social media non-
| addicting apps involve a lot of motion that plain and simple
| isn't designed for e-ink. Uber is highlighted as one of these
| apps that you might want to use without a distracting smartphone,
| but think about how much motion is involved with the Uber user
| interface when you use it. The whole interface plus the map is
| doing a bunch of smooth motions that do not take low refresh
| rates into account.
|
| The physical keyboard basically has to be there due to the
| shortcomings of the display, but I think when you go back to
| physical keyboards on phones you'll quickly realize that they are
| awful to type on compared to modern predictive autocorrect. They
| also can't adapt at all to the specific apps on the system. Say
| goodbye to emojis, stickers, and GIFs when you talk to your
| friends! Imagine what Slack will look like on this thing, and
| that's an app I _have_ to use for work!
|
| Another odd claim is that the device will be $400 but be
| available with early bird discounts below that! That's an
| impossible price for an incredibly niche phone with heavily
| customized software.
|
| One last comment on this concept: when you think about the most
| mainstream smartphones in the world, what is the most physically
| distinguishing physical feature on them - the one cosmetic
| feature that identifies the phone with a brand? That's right, the
| cameras. That's no coincidence: it's the most important feature
| of the smartphone. It isn't mentioned at all with this phone, and
| questions about it on the AMA were ignored.
|
| At face value it seems like video calls and perhaps even sending
| simple photographs will be a major challenge on this phone. I
| think most people who want to curb smartphone addiction aren't
| looking to compromise healthy things like sending photos and
| videos to their family and friends.
|
| I just get a feeling from the AMA [1] that this company is biting
| off more than they can chew.
|
| Finally, it's plainly obvious that you can get all of the
| "unique" features of this phone by setting up simple OS settings,
| like setting your screen to greyscale and setting up screen
| time/disallowing social media app installs. Essentially, this
| company is trying to sell an OS preference pane as a standalone
| product. It will fail.
|
| [1]
| https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMinimalCompany/comments/19a6xr5/...
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| At least for me, any phone which can't access either the Google
| Play Store or Apple App Store is simply a non-starter.
|
| I use apps to:
|
| * Operate and pay for the laundry machine in the basement of my
| apartment building.
|
| * Confirm all of my students (I'm an elementary school teacher)
| made it outside during a fire drill.
|
| * See the real-time location of a private bus which picks me up
| in the morning.
|
| * Change the times when my ice maker should automatically turn
| on and off.
|
| None of these apps have equivalents on PC. And, I didn't decide
| to use them, someone else chose for me.
|
| I don't use these apps all the time, and using them doesn't
| really need to be a good experience, but they _must_ be
| accessible somehow!
| dangus wrote:
| I totally agree with you, I'm not saying there shouldn't be
| the Play Store on this device. What I mean here is that in
| the context of the questions about privacy, I think it's odd
| that the company is making broad privacy promises while still
| claiming to give you the full Play Store.
|
| They make it sound like it's a more privacy-concious device
| than a standard Android phone with Google Play Services, but
| in reality it's _just an Android phone_.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| I see where you're coming from, but I think it's
| meaningfully more privacy-conscious if you're unlikely to
| actually spend much time in Play Store apps.
|
| I realize it's a bit weird to say "we're more privacy
| conscious because we made the UX worse", but such is the
| inherent contradiction in all of these "a phone to make you
| less addicted to your phone" products. And although no one
| has cracked it so far, I do think there's a place in the
| market for a device like this.
| dpedu wrote:
| E-ink has really come a long way, applications that involve
| lots of motion won't be that awful. I bought a Hisense A5C
| smartphone a couple years ago, which is an android smartphone
| with a (color!) e-ink display. I bought it as more of a
| toy/experiment, knowing it wouldn't support US carriers, to see
| what an e-ink smartphone would be like. I really ended up
| liking the concept.
|
| https://youtu.be/9vvhbPHFoio?t=20
| jerlam wrote:
| Here's the crowdfunding page with more pictures (renders?) and
| details:
|
| https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-minimal-phone-first-e...
|
| Their estimated shipping date is August 2024, which seems wildly
| optimistic.
| garyfirestorm wrote:
| lol more like August 2026
| bookstore-romeo wrote:
| I'm the owner of a Light Phone II [0] and (other than battery
| life), the biggest downside to the Light Phone I can envision for
| most people is the absence of apps like Uber, Apple Pay and
| Spotify. I think 5G isn't that necessary on a phone like that,
| except maybe for future-proofing. This phone seems to have a
| camera, though, and access to Play Store (although it will likely
| be messy) really sets it apart from most "minimal" phones out
| there. Plus, a real keyboard might attract the people who despise
| the on-screen one on the Light Phone. They're really devices of
| different classes at this point, though. The price does seem
| awkwardly low, however.
|
| [0]: https://www.thelightphone.com/
| toast0 wrote:
| > I think 5G isn't that necessary on a phone like that, except
| maybe for future-proofing.
|
| 5G is more than future proofing, at least where I am, 5G is
| deployed at new lower frequencies (taken from broadcast TV)
| that provide for more full coverage. With my new 5g phone, I
| have less dead zones than my old 4g phone.
| fragmede wrote:
| That is to say, you live in the future. I have the same
| experience with my phone. 5G is already here.
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| A minimal phone, with an e-ink display and an alphabetic
| keyboard, that costs $400? Umm, that is confused.
|
| Here is what I would call a minimal phone:
| https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_3310-192.php
|
| Unfortunately those are all now bricked by the 2G/3G shutdown and
| nobody makes a phone with a similar feature set (i.e. absence of
| everything but voice calls) any more. The Jitterbug Flip 2 comes
| sort of close but it still has Alexa and other confusing stuff,
| and you can't buy it without an overpriced subscription.
|
| I've been looking for a phone simple enough to not confuse some
| of my elderly family members and those phones no longer exist. So
| I'm constantly the involuntary tech support for whatever phone
| they use. I think of buying a cheap Android phone and writing a
| kiosk mode app that has no access to anything except dialing the
| phone. Maybe someday.
| missedthecue wrote:
| Look at the Raz Memory phone. $349 and it comes network
| unlocked.
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| $349 minimal phone, um no, a minimal phone should be more
| like $20 ;).
|
| https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_1661-pictures-2572.php
|
| Not really minimal but the above is the type of thing I have
| in mind.
| butz wrote:
| I wonder how it went for Mudita with their "Mudita Pure" minimal
| phone? It is out of stock on their website and main focus is on
| alarm clocks.
| nonethewiser wrote:
| I appreciate these basic phones but what I need is something
| different. I would prefer 2 phones: a regular smartphone and a
| basic feature phone. Then I'd take the one I need when I leave
| the house.
|
| The problem is you either need two lines with your carrier or
| swap physical sims. Swapping physical sims is inconvenient and
| means you cant use an esim.
| mrbombastic wrote:
| Not exactly what you want but how about this setup: keep your
| minimal phone as your default phone with cell service. Whenever
| you head out use that. Your second distracting regular
| smartphone has no cell service. If you want to use that one
| either use wifi or bring both along and tether to your minimal
| phone.
| johnchristopher wrote:
| I was under the impression most minimal phones don't have
| wifi hotspot feature/capability ?
| SoftTalker wrote:
| The reality is that most people do not want to carry multiple
| devices around. Carrying some kind of minimalist phone for
| text and voice, and a tablet or other device for "apps" isn't
| really a great experience.
| fragmede wrote:
| Use a service like Google voice to multiplex across phone
| numbers. Configure it so hitting the Google voice number hits
| both of your devices, so it rings whichever you have with you
| at the time.
| jcul wrote:
| This is what I do.
|
| I have a agm m8 flip that I have at all times for calls and
| text. And I have a pixel running grapheneos that I use more
| like a laptop / when needed.
|
| Living without a smartphone isn't possible. But not using one
| for two or three days is.
|
| Most banking apps require a smartphone.
|
| If I'm out an about I will generally not have a smart phone
| unless I'm making an unfamiliar journey or something like that.
|
| I've got through quite a few dumbphones, including the nokie
| 8110 (banana phone, but rooted with app store removed), Nokia
| 2660, cat s22 flip, agm m6 But all were sub par in some way.
| The m8 is the first that has ticked all the boxes for me. I
| love it.
| volemo wrote:
| I suggest taking a look at https://palm.com/pages/product.
| prmoustache wrote:
| you can have 2 sims with same carrier afaik (but you have to
| pay for it).
| qgin wrote:
| These types of phones keep getting made and people keep not
| buying them in any significant numbers. I think people want to
| want this kind of phone. But it ends up being a kind of
| performance art thing / statement about modern society thing more
| than filling an actual demand in the market.
| ummonk wrote:
| This seems more practical though, providing access to the full
| play store rather than crippling user functionality.
| btbuildem wrote:
| Maybe price is a factor? If this thing cost $100 you'd see mass
| adoption.
| steelframe wrote:
| We need to reverse the trend of most people having a phone that's
| wired in with Google or Apple. I don't, and I can't tell you how
| often I try to do something only to be told, "Okay, now download
| our app and..."
|
| It happened just last week when I was buying a car. The sales rep
| kept insisting that I install the car company's app while I was
| trying to just write a check, grab the keys, and drive off the
| lot. "You can use your Google or Facebook identity to make signup
| quicker!" Not only can I not actually install the app, I don't
| even have a Google or Facebook account. Eventually he relented
| and showed me "his wife's" car -- which happens to be the most
| expensive car on the lot -- on his own phone so I could see how
| the app worked. (His wife's car had an odometer reading of 6
| miles per what I saw in the app running on his phone, but I'm
| sure she just hasn't had a chance to drive it yet anywhere except
| home from the dealership yet.)
|
| For situations like that I usually have to tell them, "I don't
| have a phone with me that can do that." Then they get really
| confused, convinced that I have no idea what I'm talking about
| that that all I have to do is open the App Store and search for
| the app. The problem is my "App Store" is F-Droid. Why on earth I
| wouldn't be cool with just handing over my privacy to Google or
| Apple is completely lost to them, and most of the time I have
| neither the time nor desire to try to explain it to them. So I
| just end up coming across as some weirdo asshole by refusing to
| "just install the app."
|
| We need more people using phones that respect their privacy and
| that don't have an umbilical cord to Google, Apple, Facebook,
| Twitter, etc.
| vitalurk wrote:
| It's bewildering to me that you're the weird, odd one for doing
| this.
| hyperthesis wrote:
| It's in the sales rep's interest.
| Syonyk wrote:
| This is a big part of the reason I carry a flip phone. Instead
| of explaining that your "otherwise smartphone looking thing"
| can't run Apple or Android apps, I just have to whip out the
| flip phone, flip it open, flip it closed, and say "Sorry, my
| phone doesn't have apps."
|
| ... even though it's running Android 11 Go and I can sideload
| stuff, it doesn't matter because the number of apps that work
| on a 320x240 screen with keyboard input only are "roughly
| zero." Even if there's no good reason it _shouldn 't_ work,
| nobody tests or designs for that case, so there I am.
| electroly wrote:
| I think car salesmen are particularly pushy about it because
| car manufacturers are starting to sell monthly subscriptions
| for things in the app. They can't sell it to you if you won't
| install the app. For instance, my Toyota came with some kind of
| trial subscription for a remote unlock/lock and GPS location
| service. Served, of course, through the Toyota app. They have
| an incentive to get you to install the app that goes beyond
| just not thinking it's a big deal.
|
| Email I got today:
|
| > Your access to Safety Connect and Remote Connect services
| will expire unless you access your Toyota app or call
| 1-833-914-0992 to extend your subscription. For as low as $8.00
| per month, you can enjoy the convenience of Safety Connect or
| Remote Connect. For further savings, you can choose an annual
| plan.
|
| I won't be doing that, but it makes the reason for the push to
| install their app starkly clear.
| Muromec wrote:
| Well, I'm just using a flip phone and keep the iPhone in a
| cupboard at home without a sim, so I can use that one app once
| in a blue moon instead of dancing around the problem for half a
| day.
|
| Works like a charm.
| ipv6ipv4 wrote:
| The best minimal phone is a cellular smart watch.
| ddrmaxgt37 wrote:
| Exactly
| dorchadas wrote:
| I'm leaning more and more towards this myself, except for the
| fact I hate the look of most of them, and love my traditional
| watches. Maybe I could just keep it in my pocket. But it's
| ideal for what I want - GPS, WhatsApp, telegram, Spotify.
| mckn1ght wrote:
| I'm waiting for the day I can have an Apple Watch without
| ever needing an iPhone to manage it, and an iPad to do real
| dev work (ie, Xcode for iPad) without ever having to fall
| back on a Mac/Book. I've been waiting for years already so
| now I'm not sure those days will ever actually arrive.
| fragmede wrote:
| Depends on your particular flavor of 'real' dev.
| https://vscode.dev/ and an SSH app and a web browser.
| mckn1ght wrote:
| My bar is being able to execute a compiled binary
| produced with clang/gcc.
| fragmede wrote:
| Yeah. Something like https://a.co/d/a7wV4U7 instead of
| wearing it on your wrist.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Now if these could operate in stand-alone mode... but both Wear
| OS and watchOS require a companion phone.
| ummonk wrote:
| The mentioned price ($400) seems rather low for a new entry
| phone. I'd rather they charge a little more to give themselves
| financial to enable faster manufacturing and snag free
| deliveries.
| seam_carver wrote:
| I recorded a video of another e ink phone running many common
| Android apps really well (in direct sunlight)!
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvO9ScTdwz8
|
| It's the Hisense A9 with a beautiful and fast Carta 1200 e ink
| display. It's very capable, I would have preferred a phone more
| like that instead. It's biggest drawback is terrible USA cell
| reception. This company was initially going to make a phone like
| this but apparently keyboards were much more popular in polls.
| MBCook wrote:
| Unfortunately this confirms my fear. I think I'd want to throw
| an e-ink phone against a wall after a while from frustration
| with the lag.
|
| E-ink screen refreshes are just far too slow for something
| interactive. That's one of the reasons they work great on
| e-readers.
|
| I wondered if they were doing something special or had a
| different kind of e-ink screen that was faster in trade for
| some other property but at least the one in your video doesn't.
| UberFly wrote:
| These phones remind me (a bit) of the Windows vs Linux arguments.
| There are a lot of appealing aspects to these phones but
| switching to them is really impractical for most of the
| population.
| Y_Y wrote:
| "The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation" -Thoreau
|
| I understand caring about the huddled masses if you're trying
| to mass-market something. Here, as with so many other threads
| on hn, I feel like it's fine to acknowledge that most people
| won't be interested.n and then move on to discussing the
| subject at hand which invariably is going to be interesting to
| more significant portion of hackers.
|
| I love this product idea, but the device itself isn't the hard
| part. Already pine64 or random Shenzhen supplier could do this,
| getting a UI (android or otherwise) is going to be the
| challenge.
| Difwif wrote:
| Ugh another minimal phone that tries to sell me new hardware.
|
| I don't think there's anything wrong with current smartphone
| hardware. What I want is someone to reimagine the OS. My phone
| should be like a Startrek Tricorder - a very advanced tool that
| can assist me with anything. The key metric should be how much
| time it saves me... not how much time I waste using it.
|
| What I don't want is spyware, ads, and interactions designed to
| maximize my engagement. I need to be able to use feature rich
| apps sometimes, but I also want very hard limits that I set on my
| social media usage and other time wasting activities. Every
| single blocker app completely sucks and needs to be implemented
| as an OS feature. Screen time on iOS isn't enough and Digital
| Wellbeing on Android is a joke. Sometimes I don't have the
| willpower to overcome the digital crack at my finger tips.
|
| So bad I want a new OS to enter the market that reimagines my
| phone as just a tool and not the center of my life. Apple could
| do it and has the right incentives (kinda) but I don't understand
| why they don't make screen time more feature rich with an API.
| I've never owned an iPhone but I would finally switch if they did
| this.
|
| Edit: I'm being too harsh to the creators of this phone. Clearly
| I am not the customer. I just want a solution that doesn't
| involve giving up useful tools like Maps.
| nullderef wrote:
| I actually really like that the hardware includes an E-ink
| screen instead. It makes it really interesting for reading on
| the go without needing an additional device.
| jen729w wrote:
| > What I don't want is spyware, ads, and interactions designed
| to maximize my engagement.
|
| Turn off notifications.
|
| > Every single blocker app completely sucks
|
| Install 1Blocker (indie dev) and turn on the on-device
| firewall. Works like magic.
|
| > Screen time on iOS isn't enough
|
| Have more self control. ;-)
|
| > Sometimes I don't have the willpower to overcome the digital
| crack
|
| But seriously, use Screen Time to disable Safari. Just remove
| the web browser from your device. Make the Screen Time password
| something like "i am weak". It works.
|
| > I've never owned an iPhone
|
| You can 100% get what you want with an iPhone. Just don't
| install all the garbage, and if an app is useful but spams you
| (hi, Uber), turn off its notifications. Use 1Blocker and you'll
| never see an ad, not even in-app.
|
| Or do what my partner does: she basically lives in DND mode.
| Her phone hygiene is exceptional. She scarcely uses it. I
| _never_ see her using it during the day.
| d--b wrote:
| Now that phones have turned into authentication devices for a lot
| of mainstream services, we're screwed.
| noah91734 wrote:
| > Can I use apps on Minimal?
|
| > Yes, Minimal runs on Android, allowing you to download and use
| essential apps. However, the e-ink display and device
| optimization are geared towards minimizing unnecessary
| distractions.
|
| That answers the only question I had about this. You still get
| full access to every app you need, it just increases the friction
| (via the low refresh rate and the lack of colors) so you can't
| doomscroll.
|
| Unfortunately, it does not list Bluetooth among its many wireless
| features, so I don't think I'd be able to use it. Not having
| music or podcasts in the car or on a run is a dealbreaker.
| xrd wrote:
| The article mentioned Android Auto. I assume it must have
| Bluetooth.
| bengale wrote:
| You can do a lot of this on an iPhone if you use focus modes and
| automations.
|
| I have a deep work mode that sets a blank Home Screen, turns off
| always on display, sets the phone to greyscale and only allows
| notifications from my wife.
|
| It feels like something like this gets you most of the way there
| and you can then have different focus levels that ramp up
| potential distractions. All without carrying two devices or
| giving up the modcons.
| pentaphobe wrote:
| This sounds pretty great, how do you achieve it?
| paulmd wrote:
| Shortcuts, presumably
| MBCook wrote:
| Nope. All features of focus modes alone, I think.
| bengale wrote:
| Just the greyscale needs a shortcut automation.
| btbuildem wrote:
| Could you share how you set that up? Sounds effective.
| bengale wrote:
| Most of it is just in focus modes settings: alerts,
| notifications and things like that.
|
| For greyscale you use shortcuts. There's an automation tab,
| you set up on a focus mode being enabled then "set color
| filters on" and then the opposite for that focus mode being
| disabled.
| WalterBright wrote:
| Looks a lot like my Kindle Keyboard. The KK also has a cell phone
| chip in it!
| Almondsetat wrote:
| These boutique pieces of tech are bound to fail because they
| don't stand upon the shoulders of giants.
|
| We see it everywhere in the phone world: phones aimed at the
| elderly have buggy horrible software and become quickly
| abandoned; modern feature phones are buggy, slow and incomplete
| because nobody in their right mind assigns their best engineers
| to the dumb phone division, not Nokia, not LG; plus small
| companies like Mudita, Punkt, Light and others don't have the
| know how to produce a complete device.
|
| The only real solution is the true "hacker path"of taking
| existing perfected and mass produced technology and achieve your
| goal with a few small modifications. If your goal is to have a
| basically "dumb" experience, why aren't you getting a bunch of
| 5yo Xiaomi phones, follow the extremely safe guides and flash
| LineageOS without Google Services on them? And maybe pair them
| with a SIM card with no data? This way you get a snappy phone
| with actually usable offline applications (and you can sideload
| the ones you truly need).
| btbuildem wrote:
| Isn't the form factor a little odd, or is that just me? How would
| you even hold that?
|
| Make something with a wide enough screen (say, 2.5" wide) and a
| height that maps to a common aspect ratio (maybe 4"?), let it
| have some bulk (like... 1" thick?) and suddenly you have a
| distinctive object that has enough space for all the electronics
| + a decent battery.
| squarefoot wrote:
| I've read positive comments about BaldPhone. It's aimed at
| elderly people, but I don't see reasons why it couldn't be used
| to make regular smartphones interfaces more usable for everyone.
| https://baldphone.com/
| stonogo wrote:
| Be careful with your money. I'm still not convinced this is real.
| Neither are others:
|
| https://old.reddit.com/r/dumbphones/comments/198y1xi/minimal...
|
| https://old.reddit.com/r/TheMinimalCompany/comments/1aoq90q/...
|
| https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/my-company-got-funded-mill...
|
| and
|
| https://old.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/1b35fuz/please_exerci...
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