[HN Gopher] Rogue editors started a competing Wikipedia that's o...
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       Rogue editors started a competing Wikipedia that's only about roads
        
       Author : cainxinth
       Score  : 94 points
       Date   : 2024-03-02 13:39 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (gizmodo.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (gizmodo.com)
        
       | ghaff wrote:
       | I mean, it makes sense. There's an incredible rabbit's hole of
       | detail on certain topics that probably doesn't belong on what
       | purports to be a general purpose encyclopedia. Honestly a lot of
       | mathematics etc. that is more or less worthless to people who
       | aren't already experts in the area could probably use their own
       | space too.
        
         | whatshisface wrote:
         | I don't understand why something being worthless to you makes
         | it inappropriate to have on an encyclopedia we both read.
        
           | lavajava wrote:
           | I think the difficulty arises from finding a balance between
           | a baseline that appeals to a general audience and an
           | extensive repository for expert reference. Sifting through
           | large Wikis can be daunting and discourage viewership. There
           | is even an acronym for this: TL;DR
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Too_long%3B_didn%2.
           | ..
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | At some point, a general purpose reference can get
           | overwhelmed by specialized minutiae. I'm generally in the
           | inclusionist camp with respect to Wikipedia, but I also don't
           | think it's really an appropriate vessel for all of possible
           | human knowledge. Which implies there is some line. So an
           | article on the Big Dig is probably appropriate but not the
           | blow by blow history of some country road.
        
             | im3w1l wrote:
             | Hiding irrelevant details from people that don't care about
             | them is just a UI-puzzle that should be possible to solve
             | imho.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Just a simple matter of programming. And now you're
               | asking for an algorithm to decide what you can see and
               | not see.
        
               | whatshisface wrote:
               | How about the people who click on "homeomorphism" see an
               | article on homeomorphisms and the people who click on
               | "Route 48" see an article on Route 48?
        
               | thfuran wrote:
               | Is the article on route 48 meant to be a 500,000 word
               | treatise on its history including every work order
               | involved in its construction and maintenance as well as
               | discussion of the procurement process for the paints used
               | for its lines, or can some of that maybe be elided? Would
               | you expect the article on homeomorphisms to include a
               | list of every homeomorphism every described, suggested,
               | defined, or posited?
        
               | whatshisface wrote:
               | Wikipedia has a couple of devices to solve this
               | organizational problem: "full article" links that appear
               | at the top of sections, and "list of X" pages. So in your
               | examples, you'd have a three-sentence "History" section
               | on the Route 48 page, with a link to the full article on
               | the history of Route 48 at the top. For your second
               | example, there would be a "see also" section at the
               | bottom of the article, including a hyperlink to "List of
               | Homeomorphisms."
        
           | advisedwang wrote:
           | Risks of too much low interest data in wikipedia include:
           | 
           | * Not enough interest to update wiki when the subject
           | changes; then wiki becomes out of date and unreliable.
           | 
           | * Too few eyeballs allows false information to be added
           | (accidentally or intentionally)
           | 
           | * Becomes harder to do wiki-wide changes (of course it's
           | inevitably too large for manual wiki-wide changes, but you
           | can imagine more articles means more corner cases will be hit
           | that will get automation mistakes or require more complex
           | automation. Think info-boxes used in novel ways etc)
        
             | whatshisface wrote:
             | The first two are arguments against letting an individual
             | write a single article about a unique topic, not against
             | allowing a vibrant community of people with special
             | interests document them in a public reference.
             | 
             | The third could be solved by only deleting pages that use
             | the wiki language in unmaintainable ways.
        
           | bawolff wrote:
           | A lot of making a high quality resource comes down to
           | editing. Making sure you don't just include what you need but
           | also remove what you don't. It is impossible to satisfy
           | everyone, which is why i think it is a good thing to separate
           | out to different resources when different groups want
           | different things.
        
             | whatshisface wrote:
             | Deleting text from a page I can understand, but the context
             | of this discussion is the deletion of thousands of pages.
        
           | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
           | It's more the Wikipedia leadership that would have to be
           | convinced. And looking at it that way, is it safe for all
           | human knowledge to be gatekept by a single group?
        
           | vvillena wrote:
           | A lot of that content that is deemed "not Wikipedia worthy"
           | ends up in Fandom, a for-profit wiki host also started by
           | Jimmy Wales.
        
         | flomo wrote:
         | Yeah, I'm a 'roadgeek' and I thought many of the highway pages
         | were overly verbose trivia. Long route descriptions clearly
         | just taken from a map, random citations about ditch work in
         | 2014 etc. Very little history or substance.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | If anyone wants to produce digital work about anything, there
       | should be a home for that. Perhaps it doesn't belong in
       | Wikipedia, but maybe there's like a "Wikipedia Open" sibling
       | website that clearly communicates a lower standard of quality,
       | relevance, curation, but generally ignores those requirements.
       | Where I can write up my grandma's cookie recipe without having to
       | manage my own website.
       | 
       | "I think this is relevant. Here you go, world. Do with it what
       | you may."
        
         | tomjakubowski wrote:
         | You're free to add grandma's recipe to Wikibook's Cookbook.
         | https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Table_of_Contents
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | Oooh this is exactly what's on my mind. Awesome.
        
             | tomjakubowski wrote:
             | Wikibooks is a looser environment than Wikipedia for sure.
             | I think you could probably start a book about anything
             | there.
        
         | bawolff wrote:
         | That sounds like everything2 https://everything2.com/
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | You can create your own website.
        
       | nemomarx wrote:
       | We already see this with niche things like gaming fandom details
       | (every pokemon used to have a wiki page for a bit, but now that's
       | all properly handled by Bulbapedia) so I wonder why we haven't
       | seen it for more serious topics before? Math, Engineering, CS
       | could all benefit from a good wiki, I'd think.
        
         | dosshell wrote:
         | One problem I encounter with math wiki is that I almost need to
         | know what it is before reading to understand the wiki page.
         | 
         | I think wikibooks is a good initiativ to solve this, and could
         | be powerful when combined with a normal wiki.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | I'm sure it is totally impossible because figuring out where
           | to start (what's "obvious" to the reader), but a wiki that
           | also has some sort of graph and could work out the
           | dependencies for a given theorem, what you need to know to
           | understand it, and then a couple applications (for examples)
           | could be really useful. Automatic custom textbook on one
           | specific topic.
        
             | jjmarr wrote:
             | Look up Abstract Wikipedia.
             | 
             | https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia
             | 
             | It's more or less Wikipedia but the articles are created
             | using natural language generation on a functional
             | programming base. The main goal is to generate content in
             | any language from a common underlying structure, but one
             | could also try recursive explanations of a given topic in
             | that framework as well.
        
           | armchairhacker wrote:
           | > One problem I encounter with math wiki is that I almost
           | need to know what it is before reading to understand the wiki
           | page.
           | 
           | Case in point, nLab: https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/HomePage
           | 
           | For instance,
           | https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/homotopy+type+theory
           | 
           | Although this is partly inevitable because the content is
           | really abstract, I _know_ there are more approachable ways to
           | define "monad" than https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/monad
        
           | jacobolus wrote:
           | > _almost need to know what it is before reading to
           | understand the wiki page_
           | 
           | There is a project page advocating more accessible technical
           | articles, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Make_techni
           | cal_artic...
           | 
           | In some cases technical subjects just require some pretty
           | steep prerequisite knowledge, but where possible it's nice to
           | try to make them as accessible as can be done practically
           | within the space constraint of a few introductory paragraphs.
           | Usually that means trying to aim at least part of any article
           | at approximately "1 level below" the level where students are
           | expected to first encounter the topic in their formal study.
           | (This isn't always accomplished, and feel free to complain on
           | specific pages that fall far short.)
           | 
           | Writing for a extremely diverse audience with diverse needs
           | is a hard problem. And more generally, writing well as a
           | pseudonymous volunteer collective is really hard, and a lot
           | of the volunteers just aren't very good writers. Then some
           | topics are politicized, ...
           | 
           | How much time have you personally spent trying to make
           | technical articles whose subjects you do know about more
           | accessible to newcomers? If anyone reading this discussion
           | has the chance, please try to chip away at this problem, even
           | if it's just contributing to articles about e.g. high school
           | or early undergraduate level topics - many of these are not
           | accessible at the appropriate level. But if you are an expert
           | about some tricky technical topic in e.g. computing or
           | biology or mechanical engineering, go get involved in fixing
           | it up.
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | A benefit of knowing a non-english language is that my native
           | language wiki entry usually is a good tldr of the english
           | one.
           | 
           | Many of the english math entries seem to be written for math
           | students (as in math program students, not students studying
           | math).
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | Yes Wikipedia is really bad for maths articles. They're all
           | written by people who just learnt about the topic and are
           | showing off their pedantically detailed knowledge of it.
           | 
           | I recommend Mathworld. Much much better.
        
         | ryukoposting wrote:
         | It seems to me that the line has been drawn at perceived
         | academic interest. "Notability" is highly context-dependent,
         | but I find that it's easier to identify Wikipedia's line of
         | notability when you consider the potential academic usefulness
         | of a particular article. Minutae of science, history,
         | mathematics, etc seem more likely to be "academically
         | significant" than a county road in Michigan, or a Pokemon.
         | 
         | When I was a kid, I was taught to reject Wikipedia as an
         | academic source. I know I'm not the only one. Part of me
         | wonders if their present moderation is influenced by that.
        
           | jacobolus wrote:
           | > _taught to reject Wikipedia as an academic source_
           | 
           | What ends up happening is people (including academics in
           | published work) still use Wikipedia as a source, but just
           | don't mention it. This is much worse than just citing
           | Wikipedia, because it can lead to "citogenesis", whereby a
           | claim that originated (without evidence) in Wikipedia is then
           | given credibility by being republished elsewhere. Sorting out
           | what happened later is a huge pain, and many examples slip
           | through the cracks.
           | 
           | Overall, Wikipedia should be taken for what it is: a
           | moderately inconsistent tertiary source written by
           | pseudonymous volunteers some of whom are dispassionate world-
           | class experts and others of whom are incompetent amateurs,
           | ideologues, or trolls.
           | 
           | However, what I've found tracking down lots of Wikipedia
           | claims over the years is that Wikipedia is on average no less
           | reliable than many other kinds of sources that are taken more
           | seriously, including paper encyclopedias and peer-reviewed
           | journal articles (and don't get me started on newspaper
           | articles). Every source and author should be carefully
           | evaluated for credibility and read with at least some
           | skepticism.
        
         | bawolff wrote:
         | > Math, Engineering, CS could all benefit from a good wiki, I'd
         | think.
         | 
         | There are some specialized ones like
         | https://complexityzoo.net/Complexity_Zoo
        
         | jjmarr wrote:
         | Because ultimately, Wikipedia's criteria for allowing articles
         | is whether or not the subject of such has sufficient content in
         | reliable secondary sources (like newspapers or academic
         | articles) to base an article on. Otherwise, most of the article
         | is going to be someone's personal opinions or their own
         | research. Most minor American roads and Pokemon don't have that
         | coverage beyond showing they exist and their route. Allowing
         | those articles to be created is a signal that "there's reliable
         | newspapers or academics covering the history of this highway"
         | when in truth if a history section is ever added, it's not
         | going to be based on anything beyond what the editor came up
         | with.
         | 
         | That is what distinguishes Wikipedia from large language models
         | or Google which'll say they have information on a given topic
         | even if their sources are questionable. The value-add of
         | Wikipedia is curation, and when the quality of one's outputs is
         | a function of one's inputs, it's sometimes better to just _not
         | give an output_ when the input doesn 't exist.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | >has sufficient content in reliable secondary sources (like
           | newspapers or academic articles) to base an article on
           | 
           | Which is, of course, completely ironic. Wikipedia's
           | notability criterion depends heavily on books in some library
           | stack that essentially no one will ever actually check or
           | appearances in other print form that no one will check
           | either.
           | 
           | I've found a couple of minor "folk histories" of things that
           | appear to not have been true after looking at actual books
           | (which may have not been actually accurate either though they
           | seemed plausible).
        
             | Angostura wrote:
             | Not really ironic, because they _can_ be checked.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | As a practical matter however... Almost no one's going to
               | visit the $SMALLTOWN historical society and do so.
               | They're going to do a web search.
        
               | tux3 wrote:
               | That's part of why digital libraries are important!
               | 
               | Wikipedia has its own "Wikipedia Library", which is a
               | system to allow active editors access to high-quality
               | sources. But if it has to be resorting to Sci-Hub or
               | libgen to check sources for Wikipedia, that's also a form
               | of public service.
        
             | snowfield wrote:
             | Someone has probably checked them at some point. And that's
             | good enough for me
        
               | toyg wrote:
               | Not if that someone was a neofascist with an agenda to
               | rewrite relatively minor history.
               | 
               | Sadly that happens, and it happens a lot more than most
               | people realize. It's way too easy to fake a reputation on
               | Wikipedia.
        
             | andrewaylett wrote:
             | There's an opposite irony, too: Wikipedia doesn't want to
             | be a location for original research, but moving the pages
             | _out_ of Wikipedia means they _could_ now be a suitable
             | citation source for articles on Wikipedia.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | For a lot of these fields researchers already feel like they
         | are contributing to the community by writing manuscripts.
         | Making a wiki of that written for lay people is a fruitless
         | waste of time, wikipedia entries are good enough for lay people
         | and people in the field would probably rather read a legitimate
         | review article with 150 sources.
        
         | CM30 wrote:
         | Hmm a quick check of Google brought up at least a few wikis
         | about maths:
         | 
         | https://math.fandom.com/wiki/Math_Wiki
         | https://encyclopediaofmath.org/wiki/Main_Page
         | 
         | And a few about engineering:
         | 
         | https://engineering.fandom.com/wiki/Engineering_Wiki
         | 
         | Plus a few about computer related topics:
         | 
         | https://dataengineering.wiki/Index
         | 
         | And various languages and frameworks have wikis too, like
         | Python, PHP, WordPress, etc.
         | 
         | So there's definitely some interest in wikis outside of fandom
         | topics. The Wiki listing pages on Wikipedia has at least 30% of
         | the page listing wikis that don't involve a piece of
         | media/fiction:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis
         | 
         | I suspect the disparity is probably because hobbies and fandoms
         | could mostly only communicate via the internet, and naturally
         | went from fansites and hobby sites to wikis. Meanwhile more
         | academic subjects have an audience who seem to be unsure of the
         | value of these sorts of free resources.
        
           | alexb_ wrote:
           | Fandom is complete and utter SEO garbage - every single
           | fandom with enough nerds to have sense has moved off of it
           | into an actual independent wiki. IndieWikiBuddy is an
           | extension that actually takes fandom websites, and redirects
           | google searches to the actual community run page.
           | https://getindie.wiki/
        
           | movpasd wrote:
           | For maths, there is also ncatlab.
        
         | ajkjk wrote:
         | I think about trying to start a math and physics wiki all the
         | time. Basically it needs to keep track of as many major results
         | and link them all to each other and map between their
         | terminologies. It is so exhausting that so many results are
         | hiding in papers from other subfields that use slightly
         | different notations and terminology so you can't find easily
         | find them.
        
         | StevenXC wrote:
         | https://Topology.pi-base.org (a database of certain
         | mathematical objects) started as a wiki, but transitioned to
         | using GitHub pull requests and custom software to support
         | automated deduction.
         | 
         | Folks interested in open collaborative math content may find
         | these interesting:
         | 
         | - https://code4math.org/ - https://mathbases.org/
        
       | arjie wrote:
       | This is a great idea, I think. Mediawiki is very good about
       | allowing multiple sites and since interwiki links are bundled in
       | you can just link Wikipedia pages like they're local to the wiki.
       | 
       | I actually use Mediawiki for my blog.
        
       | _aleph2c_ wrote:
       | If you think this is interesting, see what happens when you try
       | and edit the page of Susan Gerbic; the leader of the Guerilla
       | Skeptics. She runs a gang of over 150 Wikipedia members who have
       | taken over 1500+ articles. They are like the deletionist
       | described in the article, but operate as an open conspiracy
       | advancing an atheist-materialist point of view. They actively
       | recruit new members, run them through extensive training about
       | the Wikipedia ecosystem and how to dominate it as a team.
        
         | jumelles wrote:
         | https://www.wired.com/story/guerrilla-wikipedia-editors-who-...
         | 
         | They seem to defend against conspiracy theories and falsehoods.
         | Why are you calling them a "gang"? What are the "dominating"?
         | Why is this bad?
        
       | bloopernova wrote:
       | Reminds me of Everything2. It started as a freeform text linking
       | site, where nodes (pages) could be linked just like a wiki these
       | days. It was written by some of the slashdot crew, back around
       | 2000. The site grew and attracted a fun crowd who really liked
       | the freeform wiki-like interface. Unfortunately some of the
       | admins wanted to compete with Wikipedia, so the fun, frivolous
       | stuff was discouraged over purely factual nodes. This meant that
       | some people stopped contributing. I left around that time.
       | 
       | https://everything2.com/
       | 
       | Huh it's still going! It must be 25 years old now, not a bad
       | achievement.
        
         | unwind wrote:
         | Founded (as "Everything1") in 1998 according to the other site.
        
           | bloopernova wrote:
           | Oh right! Yeah I completely forgot about its initial
           | incarnation being named that.
           | 
           | It was definitely a new frontier where we thought anything
           | was possible. Just being able to easily link between
           | nodes/pages was a very cool feature back then.
        
         | thoughtFrame wrote:
         | That's interesting, because I checked out everything2 last year
         | to see what I had missed out on, and found it a nice place with
         | poetry and personal essays. Maybe at some point their culture
         | changed again?
        
           | bloopernova wrote:
           | It's entirely possible! I left sometime in the mid 2000s, so
           | there's certainly a lot of time for cultures to have changed
           | significantly even multiple times.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | Just to be pedantic: They started a separate wiki (that isn't
       | really in competition with Wikipedia), not a "competing
       | Wikipedia" (which is the name of a specific wiki).
        
         | john-radio wrote:
         | And while we're being pedantic:
         | 
         | > The dispute came down to some of Wikipedia's most sacred
         | tenants. Anyone can edit Wikipedia...
         | 
         | Tenets!
        
           | dtgriscom wrote:
           | Perhaps it was quickly fixed, but it says "tenets" now.
        
         | aqme28 wrote:
         | Right. If it's a field that Wikipedia refuses to engage in,
         | then by definition it can't be a competitor.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | AARoads is not a competitor to Wikipedia because it doesn't
           | try to be a general-purpose encyclopedia. Similar to how HN
           | is not a Reddit competitor. They have different goals and
           | thus complement each other.
        
       | RheingoldRiver wrote:
       | I mean...this is precisely what's supposed to happen when you
       | have a niche interest? And this is a better situation for them
       | anyway because now they can use some structured data extension
       | (SMW, Cargo,* WikiBase, DPL) specifically tailored to their needs
       | and create a lot more advanced querying/filtering features that
       | are super usable by the average person rather than requiring you
       | to know SPARQL. Wikipedia doesn't support SMW or Cargo (for good
       | reason) but on specific-subject wikis that aren't literally the
       | scale of Wikipedia one of these is pretty much a must-have if the
       | admins are tech-savvy enough to make good use of them. (My
       | recommendation is Cargo but either can work)
       | 
       | *no relationship to the Rust package manager, it's a SQL wrapper
       | for MediaWiki
       | 
       | I would say the headline here if anything is, "WikiMedia doesn't
       | support niche-interest wikis that run alongside Wikipedia" and
       | instead make you either self-host or use a farm (Fandom,
       | Miraheze, Wiki.gg, etc).
        
       | epivosism wrote:
       | I recently have been thinking about UGC site in general, and it
       | seems like they generally go two ways:
       | 
       | 1. Allow most legal content to be uploaded and control
       | distribution with algos
       | 
       | YouTube, Roblox, Twitter, Tinder, Flickr, Insta, FB, TikTok.
       | 
       | This lets users practice and test things without risk to their
       | work or account.
       | 
       | 2. Sites that try to "keep the db clean" by nuking stuff they
       | think is "bad" by some criteria.
       | 
       | Sites like this: Wikipedia, most big subreddits
       | 
       | Type 2 sites can be unsustainable because they tend to make new
       | users feel judged, and don't give them the chance to iterate and
       | improve their work until it's more ready to be shared and useful
       | to a broader audience. You just find your content nuked, or
       | removed from the subreddit, or downvoted a ton, often with a
       | dismissive or aggressive comment. This is NOT the way to grow and
       | survive as a company over a long period of time
       | 
       | Obviously, there is no necessity to keep the db full of only high
       | quality items. As the scope and number of niches a site covers,
       | it's not possible to maintain that. On the other hand, using
       | algos lets you do interactive tests with content, directly
       | testing against various audiences to see if they like it, without
       | having to do editorial work yourself.
       | 
       | Of course, there has to be some limit - articles for every
       | pokemon, or every version of every pokemon, etc at some point it
       | does get too far. The thing for me is coming in and seeing your
       | content completely deleted.
        
         | itishappy wrote:
         | I may be missing your point, but Wikipedia and most big
         | subreddits have proven quite effective at growing and
         | surviving.
         | 
         | I'd also suggest a major distinction between type 1 and type 2
         | sites are a focus on creation vs consumption. There's a lot
         | more consumers than producers and, depending on your goals, it
         | might improve the experience for more users by deleting the
         | content of some.
        
           | epivosism wrote:
           | I have heard the editor count at Wikipedia has been shrinking
           | for years. Might have been wrong though
        
           | devmor wrote:
           | >most big subreddits have proven quite effective at growing
           | and surviving.
           | 
           | That depends on your criteria. If popularity and user
           | engagement are the only important metrics, this is absolutely
           | true.
           | 
           | If however, clarity of purpose and effective moderation are
           | important, I would strongly disagree. From my experience,
           | most big subreddits that used to fulfill a certain niche have
           | devolved into primarily meta-posting and stealth (or not
           | stealth at all) advertisement.
           | 
           | Of the exceptions to the above, many now just fill the exact
           | same purpose. There are around 10 extremely large subreddits
           | that regularly make the front page that are essentially just
           | "look at this picture of something I have/something I saw"
           | with no real boundary between them.
        
         | kiba wrote:
         | Moderation is a must or else there will be rampant
         | misinformation and hate speech.
         | 
         | Reddit is fine but it's not really operable as a business
         | enterprise unless you are fine with making a small tiny profit
         | over long period of time.
         | 
         | Subreddits are a self solving problem over time. They grow big
         | and shrink on their own merits and damage is self contained.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | Using those definitions there are really no type 1 sites except
         | _maybe_ 4chan, which itself even lightly moderates. All the
         | other sites you mention heavily moderate and most of them
         | automate that moderation.
         | 
         | You really can't have a site that's a free-for-all because of
         | spammers, griefers, racists, and other various forms of jerks.
        
       | ginko wrote:
       | I still think Wikipedia's focus on significance was a historic
       | mistake. At the very least there should have been an "extended"
       | Wikipedia+ that strived to include all human knowledge no matter
       | how trivial.
       | 
       | Not having this meant for-profit companies like Wikia (now
       | fandom.com) could take over much of that space, pervasive
       | tracking and ads included.
        
         | chriskanan wrote:
         | I 100% agree. They also apply rules inconsistently, where the
         | handful of times I've tried to make an article on well-known
         | scientists (h-index 70+) years ago, the editors rejected it
         | despite some secondary sources. On the other hand there are
         | many articles being created by some editor on scientists who
         | have almost no track record.
         | 
         | Wikipedia is already one of the best data sources for training
         | LLMs, and if they were less stringent, it could even be a
         | better resource.
        
       | yreg wrote:
       | This is the system working as intended. It's great that they are
       | putting their original research on AARoads. Wikipedia can quote
       | the noteworthy parts.
        
         | classichasclass wrote:
         | Would they? Wouldn't that be "original research"?
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Yeah, agree. Wikipedia's rules are being used as a club and
           | it's too bad.
           | 
           | We get it that people will abuse Wikipedia and it must suck
           | to cull all of the ephemera people submit (not the best word
           | for it but the only one that comes to my mind).
           | 
           | But I think rules should allow for nuance.
           | 
           | Perhaps Wikipedia should have allowed a kind of sub-
           | Wikipedia: a sort of parallel wikipedia that deals in topics
           | more akin to Urban Dictionary entries. Sort it's entries to
           | the bottom of the search results, serve up a light yellow
           | background for sub-pedia pages to make it clear these are not
           | conforming articles. But it seems to me like a generally bad
           | idea to be a ruthless gatekeeper for the enthusiastic and
           | motivated contributors out there.
        
             | joshuahutt wrote:
             | > Perhaps Wikipedia should have allowed a kind of sub-
             | Wikipedia: a sort of parallel wikipedia that deals in
             | topics more akin to Urban Dictionary entries.
             | 
             | It's an interesting idea. I imagine a sort of "Official"
             | and "Unofficial" modes. You could flip a switch and see the
             | articles and edits that didn't pass muster.
             | 
             | That way, the ideas and info wouldn't be lost/censored, but
             | wouldn't get to claim they're "formally accepted."
        
       | Macha wrote:
       | Their name might get them in trouble with the AA, a UK and
       | Ireland insurance company who has products such as AA Roadwatch.
       | 
       | Other than that potential future problem, this is pretty much the
       | system working as intended, and they're following the path led by
       | sites such as Wookiepedia.
        
         | jkaplowitz wrote:
         | The site these former Wikipedia editors are joining has existed
         | since 2000, is primarily US-focused, and is named after two
         | people in the US with first names beginning with A:
         | https://www.aaroads.com/about/ So this new migration shouldn't
         | affect that site's legal risk from the UK and Ireland company,
         | which seems pretty low anyway given that context.
        
       | KTibow wrote:
       | I find Wikipedia's frontend more enjoyable than AARoads. It's
       | understandable as the community of editors probably wasn't as
       | technical as some other communities, but it feels a bit slow,
       | there's no search, and there are a number of broken links.
        
         | notatoad wrote:
         | It makes sense that the consumption side of the site isn't as
         | good, since super-niche sites like this are more for the
         | benefit of the writers than the readers. The value and
         | enjoyment is in collecting the information, not retrieving it.
         | 
         | And that might sound like a criticism, but it's really not.
         | Niche interest sites where people spend their time collecting a
         | huge level of detail on a topic few care about are awesome, and
         | I love them. Just realistically, they're not there for the
         | readers.
        
       | Sharlin wrote:
       | Isn't "a competing Wikipedia that's only about X" just called...
       | a wiki?
        
       | ern wrote:
       | Wikipedia seems to have a growing contingent of editors from
       | countries like India, the Phillipines and Sri Lanka who edit
       | topics that seemingly have little to do with those countries.
       | 
       | To establish their credentials, they get involved in arcane areas
       | like Articles for Deletion or other areas that you'd expect would
       | be of more interest to experienced editors.
       | 
       | Now everyone has the right to edit anything on Wikipedia, but
       | it's starting to feel like paid editors have gained a foothold.
        
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