[HN Gopher] The 'Atlanta Magnet Man' is saving our car tires, on...
___________________________________________________________________
The 'Atlanta Magnet Man' is saving our car tires, one bike ride at
a time
Author : neocritter
Score : 263 points
Date : 2024-03-01 13:01 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wabe.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wabe.org)
| alanbernstein wrote:
| This makes me want to get a battery powered shop vac, so I can
| carry it on my bike and spot-clean gravel and glass messes...
| itronitron wrote:
| I imagine you could pull a child carrier behind your bike and
| your passenger could maneuver the vacuum nozzle while trailing
| behind you.
|
| Related >> https://bikeportland.org/2022/01/07/a-california-
| inventor-is...
| duxup wrote:
| When my kids were younger I used to bring things to clean up /
| fix local playgrounds that I was at every day. Later I saw
| another parent doing the same.
|
| As much as I or someone might feel I "shouldn't" have to, it's
| pretty efficient to just have someone do the job right then and
| there.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| If everyone pitched in just a tiny bit, picking up a single
| piece of "someone else's" trash... we'd live in a
| significantly nicer world. There's a very stubborn "I didn't
| do it, not my problem" mindset in the US specifically.
| duxup wrote:
| Yeah the "someone else should do it" kinda thing is a weird
| self re-enforcing kinda thing too. Seems to just stoke
| anger and inaction.
|
| Like I show up at a playground at say 8 am, maybe the trash
| left there was from 8 hours ago ... now someone gets upset
| that the city didn't do a thing that is probably a
| rebellious expectation (can't patrol all the parks
| overnight every 8 hours) and they shove their hands in
| their pockets and pout.
|
| I'd rather folks just pick some stuff up and toss it in the
| bin nearby and we're all good.
| easyas124 wrote:
| I'd rather the litterbugs just not litter in the first
| place. (Sure, accidents happen, but I've seen ten times
| more outright antisocial trash dumping than forgetting a
| candy wrapper by mistake.) People get upset because it is
| entirely possible to live in a world where you don't have
| to clean up after people who don't take responsibility
| for themselves, and I think a lot of people are tired of
| it.
| duxup wrote:
| I've never really found "those people shouldn't do that"
| does much to change things or make the world a better
| place.
| kgermino wrote:
| There's loads of littering by me but I don't think people
| realize how much of the trash blowing around isn't left
| out by individuals (intentionally or accidentally) but an
| artifact of our trash collection process.
|
| A lot of the litter by me either falls out of the
| bin/truck during collection, is dug out of trash cans by
| squirrels, or spills out when the wind opens the can lid
| or even blows it over completely. There's things we can
| do to mitigate that but it'll never be perfect so you'll
| always see "someone else's trash" blowing in the wind.
| duxup wrote:
| My trash pickup day is Wednesday, and it is always the
| windiest day.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| There's the whole other aspect of people who don't care
| to properly bag trash (which attracts more vermin that
| also spread litter). It's a very frustrating situation.
| kgermino wrote:
| Oh I hate that! It's far from a perfect solution - bags
| tear, you can't bag recyclables, sidewalk and park trash
| cans will always have loose trash - but it's huge and too
| many people don't know or care to do it.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| What tends to irritate me, is that sometimes people will
| make a reddit post where they took a photo of trash to
| post "what's wrong with people"... and they just walked
| away from it.
|
| If you can stop for a moment to take a picture, you could
| pick a piece of it up too... but there's also the "ah I
| don't have time to do it all so I won't do anything"
| drivers99 wrote:
| There was a video advocating for picking up other
| people's litter (that I can't seem to find) I really
| liked that said (paraphrased) "in order for a piece of
| litter to exist, it takes 1 person to litter and 1000
| people to not pick it up. And in order for it not to
| exist, it takes just 1 person to pick it up."
| dpkirchner wrote:
| Sometimes "someone else should do it" can be translated
| to "someone that is being paid to do it should do it." I
| don't want to affect someone's livelihood, however it's a
| different story if they're ignoring the task.
| dotnet00 wrote:
| The "I didn't do it, not my problem" mindset arises because
| of people with a "I did do it, but it still isn't my
| problem" mindset. The person who cares enough to clean up a
| mess in a local park is eventually going to give up when
| they notice that it's always the same people leaving the
| mess in the first place and that cleaning up for them is
| only emboldening them further.
|
| Ideally what would happen is that people would be self-
| conscious enough to figure out after one or two slip ups
| that someone else is having to clean up for them, and feel
| bad enough to avoid doing it in the future.
|
| This has become one of my bigger hard learned lessons. I
| used to go out of my way to be as considerate as possible
| to everyone I interacted with, trying to predict issues and
| mentioning them early to make things easier for others even
| if it might inconvenience myself. The idea was that people
| would reciprocate enough that it'd make things easier for
| myself too.
|
| But over the years I've had to stop accepting that, because
| as it turns out, most people really don't care. Being
| extremely accommodating and planning ahead to fit someone's
| constraints won't mean that I get the courtesy returned.
| They'll just continue to push me around at their own
| convenience.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| > after one or two slip ups that someone else is having
| to clean up for them, and feel bad enough to avoid doing
| it in the future.
|
| I've lived long enough to know that this won't happen in
| my lifetime, it requires an entirely different societal
| mindset... something closer to shame/collectivism a
| country like Japan has (they still have litterers of
| course, but a much smaller number)
|
| Chronic litterbugs don't care, they're often low enough
| on the hierarchy of needs that this kind of morality
| isn't on their radar at all.
|
| If everyone pitched in, you might pick up a single piece
| of trash occasionally... so you'd avoid the "I just
| cleaned up this whole park yesterday" problem, because in
| theory you'd have a larger number or people doing a
| little work rather than a smaller number doing most of
| it.
|
| I regularly pick up trash in my neighborhood, so I get it
| though... it's impossible for one person to keep up with.
| dotnet00 wrote:
| Yep, although there's also just an issue of people not
| seeing their surroundings as something they own. I've
| seen this in collectivist societies too.
|
| For example, in India, there's a pretty jarring contrast
| in big cities, between pristine modern buildings with
| immaculate interiors situated on a street literred with
| garbage. While Indian society loves to label littering as
| shameful, because no one sees the street as something
| they also partly own, their idea of cleaning only extends
| to keeping their own building immaculate.
| ryandrake wrote:
| > Chronic litterbugs don't care, they're often low enough
| on the hierarchy of needs that this kind of morality
| isn't on their radar at all.
|
| Don't forget the deliberate litterbugs. There are plenty
| of people out there with a "for every bottle you pick up,
| I'll litter three" attitude. Belligerence against
| anything seen as a public good is on the rise. I know
| someone who believes having a clean, trash-free
| neighborhood is a "liberal" thing. Blows my mind.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| I've seen "this graffiti makes rent cheaper" too, good
| point
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| Assholes abound. Don't let them control your life, is my
| philosophy.
| HEmanZ wrote:
| I see you've met some of my relatives.
| creato wrote:
| > Chronic litterbugs don't care, they're often low enough
| on the hierarchy of needs that this kind of morality
| isn't on their radar at all.
|
| I used to think trash around my neighborhood was from
| just a general mass of people not caring about littering.
| It sounds like that's what you think too.
|
| Then, one day, I saw a homeless guy dumping every single
| trash can on the street out completely, tearing open the
| bags, looking for maybe 2 seconds, and then moving on to
| the next trash can.
|
| Call me harsh, but that behavior should merit a serious
| prison sentence. I think people overestimate the damage
| something like this causes to the environment, but
| underestimate the damage it does to society and the way
| people think about each other.
| bombcar wrote:
| This is the kind of societal harm that _does_ warrant
| (apparently) harsh punishment, because _if_ it gets out
| of control there is just no way to resolve it.
|
| It doesn't have to be prison-prison; but something like
| that does call for maybe a Nordic-style prison that
| isolates society from the low-level but consistent harm.
|
| It's all very tragedy of the commons.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| > The person who cares enough to clean up a mess in a
| local park is eventually going to give up
|
| Maybe some, but certainly not all!
|
| > The idea was that people would reciprocate enough that
| it'd make things easier for myself too.
|
| Here is the flaw in your plan; it was a flaw in my plan
| too. In more naive days, I thought that too. Then at some
| point we realize what you did: people don't do good
| things, and you aren't going to change most of them.
|
| That's when we can take a big step forward, and learn
| what true altruism, generosity, and most of all, what
| love is: It's caring for and doing good for people who
| don't 'deserve' it; who act like jerks and idiots, who
| even do bad things. Anyone who has done good in their
| life learns this lesson. That is love, the only love in
| any meaningful sense.
|
| That truth is well known, but not always widely
| discussed. Look at the Gospels in Christianity, and
| everything that says we are all sinners. Look at stories
| of prophets in every culture: ignored, attacked, lynched.
| More contemporaneously, do you think people who do great
| good, like Washington or Gandhi or MLK, did not realize
| what you did about human nature? All those people, those
| religions, those philosophers - they all know. When
| Jefferson wrote 'All men are created equal, and are
| endowed with inalienable rights', he knew who he was
| writing about. When the framers of the Constitution wrote
| about forming 'a more perfect union', they knew that
| would be done would be 'of the people, by the people, and
| for the people' (as Lincoln said later) - and they knew
| about people.
|
| And it's about you too. You're a sinner, and an asshole,
| and ignorant too, just like me. If that's not love, if
| love excludes those people, who loves you and me?
| Remember that ancient prayer: 'Forgive us our trespasses
| ...'.
| dotnet00 wrote:
| I appreciate your intent, but as much as I might try, I
| don't have endless energy or patience.
|
| Last year I was forced to drag my belongings between 3
| apartments, each time with zero forewarning, in the
| summer heat, to rooms with no AC (despite my initial room
| having been AC, and my still having to pay the higher
| rent for it), while I had to prepare for my first ever
| research conference and later was recovering from the
| worst flu I've ever had, they even dragged me to a
| roommate conduct meeting which had nothing to do with me,
| right in the middle of moving. The person the meeting was
| actually about didn't even attend.
|
| Each time, I had to go to the dorm office and talk to the
| head administrator in person to get any useful
| information on what was going on, and was only offered to
| be compensated after the third time when I came in to the
| administrator's office, looking half dead from the flu.
|
| I refuse to 'love' people who would put complete
| strangers through all that suffering without seeming to
| put in even the smallest effort to empathize and try to
| make things easier (eg by explaining the things in the
| email, which they told me in person). I'm not a prophet
| or saint, nor do I aspire to be one. The only people
| entitled to my completely unconditional love, generosity,
| tolerance etc are my immediate family, and friends to a
| slightly lesser extent. With most other people I'm happy
| to be polite and help them in small ways by default, but
| going out of my way to be helpful stops as soon as it
| becomes obvious that they don't even think about
| reciprocating in even the smallest of ways. It simply
| isn't worth the stress I put myself through, and besides
| not being fair to me, it isn't fair to everyone who does
| try to reciprocate.
|
| I've had many other similar experiences of my kindness
| being shamelessly exploited by people who haven't earned
| it, to the point that they became a bonding moment with
| my father as he too has had lots of experience with that
| and had come to a similar approach to treating human
| interaction. He often got accused of being insincere
| because of how much effort he put into keeping things
| smooth for people who reciprocated compared to those who
| didn't.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| Hey - none of us have endless energy or patience. We just
| do our best.
|
| I don't mean to be dismissive about your experience; we
| all have a hard road, and some much harder than others.
| Still, if we're talking about it honestly: Why should the
| admnistrator and other people have compassion for you if
| you don't have it for others? I'll bet that, not being
| saint and under all that stress, you weren't perfect in
| what you were doing. I'll bet the administrator and
| others were also under many different stressors like you
| were; who was understanding them?
|
| The only way there is compassion in the world is when
| it's between stressed people acting less than their best,
| often much less. If it's restricted to near-perfection,
| it wouldn't exist; the word 'compassion' wouldn't have
| any usage or meaning.
|
| But that doesn't mean I do it well all the time. And I'm
| a jerk too and I hope people have compassion for me.
| neocritter wrote:
| It's hard to strike a balance between taking responsibility
| when no one else will and not being a doormat, but it's one
| worth finding.
| Empact wrote:
| As someone who likes to pick up incidental litter along my
| way, my practices on this front are:
|
| * I make a point of not picking up everything I see, rather
| just do an incremental bit at each opportunity
|
| * I set a basic standard for when I should: if I literally
| see litter and a trashcan along the path I'm traveling -
| the goal being to minimize the cost / maximize the value of
| the effort.
|
| Even with such minimal practices I probably pick up more
| litter than 90+% of people. :P
| wil421 wrote:
| When I kayak I pick up bottles and cans when I see them.
| I'm not digging in the mud to get stuff but if I'm close
| I'll make an effort to collect trash. Same on the beach and
| camp sites.
| Tade0 wrote:
| There's a loose mount on a swing at a nearby playground
| that's been driving me crazy, because it goes klak-klak as
| the swing swings, but I can't reach it from where I stand.
|
| The swing did undergo some maintenance in the meantime, but
| somehow that one part is still loose.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| I'd be careful repairing swings and similar equipment: If
| you make a mistake, if you simply misunderstand some
| mechanic of it (e.g., part X needs to be loose because of
| tolerances for part Y), someone could get seriously
| injured.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| When I lived in Atlanta, there was a large line item on my
| annual property tax for street sweeping, which didn't seem to
| make much of a difference at keeping the roads clear of debris.
| There were many streets near me that obviously had not been
| swept in years, and while I did see them come up my street a
| few times, given the traffic volume, it has hardly frequent
| enough. They also didn't seem to have any kind of communication
| process between the police, who respond to traffic accidents,
| and the street sweepers, who never came by after an accident
| spread debris all over the road. Sometimes the police would
| have a stiff push broom in their trunk to do a quick sweep of
| the large stuff into the gutter but for the most part accident
| sites would remain a hazard until it had rained enough to carry
| the debris down to the storm drains to be clogged up by it.
|
| People complain all the time about underfunded cities but if
| every property in the city was getting charged as much as I was
| per year, the street sweeping service should have been
| worldclass. It's things like this that make people distrust
| city government and not inclined to give them more money for
| little return.
| datadrivenangel wrote:
| Atlanta, in addition to the traffic, is also known for their
| corruption.
| easyas124 wrote:
| Every single American city has this to one degree or
| another, even if it's just "hey, my brother owns a
| landscaping business and can mow city hall...". But a
| Byzantine government structure and a "fuck you, got mine"
| attitude baked into the national ethos will do that.
| datadrivenangel wrote:
| Oh yeah. Atlanta is not unique in that regard. Great
| city.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| Is it?
|
| The Kasim Reed years produced a few federal prosecutions
| [e.g. 0], but generally it's been pretty quiet?
|
| And it's not like the US Attorney isn't looking. So either
| Atlanta politicians are better at hiding their crimes, or
| they aren't committing them at the average rate [1].
|
| Subjectively, I'd say that Atlanta has a fair amount of
| low-level corruption (see the Park amounts), but generally
| avoids the major-level corruption that other cities get
| caught in.
|
| [0] https://www.ajc.com/news/local/torpy-large-when-the-
| cost-you...
|
| [1] https://pols.uic.edu/wp-
| content/uploads/sites/273/2023/11/Co...
| bigbillheck wrote:
| The whole "Cop City" stuff seems pretty corrupt.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| Which part?
|
| The city wants to use some land for a public purpose.
| They steamrolled local opposition to do so.
|
| It'd arguably be more corrupt if they turned around and
| sold it to developers. (I haven't looked at the details
| of how City Hall East was sold into Ponce City Market)
|
| To me, corruption is individual enrichment at injury to
| the public or subverting legal processes in place.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| Looked up the City Hall East sale, because I was curious.
|
| Sold through the Atlanta Development Authority, in 2011,
| for $27M, with a portion of the paid as the development
| achieves milestones.
|
| And gets a $600,000/yr expense off the city's books.
|
| I walked through the entire empty building during the
| sale... and could definitely say there needed to be a LOT
| of renovation (including structural) before it was
| usable.
|
| Also, apparently holes between 12' ceiling floors were
| acceptable safety practices when it was built. No OSHA!
|
| https://roughdraftatlanta.com/2011/08/01/city-hall-east-
| to-b...
| vkou wrote:
| Local politics is at the perfect junction where it's rarely
| held under an inquisitor's microscope, and a few
| developers/small businesses stand to benefit massively from
| any corruption.
|
| For bonus points, their elections are often staggered
| separately from state and federal elections, which suppresses
| voter interest and turnout.
|
| You get what the system is designed to produce.
| bombcar wrote:
| I've noticed that things are lot better when it's actual city
| officials who are not overworked vs contractors; our little
| city owns the street sweepers and the road repair equipment
| and the tree equipment and the snowplows, and it's basically
| the same group of guys doing all that at different times, and
| it works pretty well.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| This makes me complain to the local county and tell them they
| should allocate more of my tax money to maintaining public
| spaces.
| xyst wrote:
| Sounds great until your vac get clogged with used hypodermic
| needles. Good luck cleaning that without getting pricked
| doublerabbit wrote:
| Already exist, I looked at one to pick up cig butts when I go
| on my nightly litter picker walks.
|
| Sadly they're unpractical and only last around 30mins ~
| duxup wrote:
| I really like stories of individual folks out there making the
| world a better place. A motivated individual with some level of
| exposure to the problem / solution often seems so much more
| efficient than other solutions.
|
| There's a local group that helps folks find stolen bikes:
|
| https://www.wsj.com/us-news/your-bike-just-got-stolen-these-...
| mtmail wrote:
| Online I saw a guy with a power washer cleaning hate-speech
| graffiti for free (e.g. swastikas in the US). I don't think he
| does it for fame or clicks but even if it's a net positive.
| chrisBob wrote:
| I don't understand the "even if" comment. This is the one
| benefit of these social platforms. If the attention really
| motivates people to do something good, then have at it!
| neocritter wrote:
| One of my favorite YouTube channels uses the fame and
| funding to take on dog grooming jobs no one else is able
| to, or is able to devote enough time and detail to.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OkGk2YRSnw
|
| There's also an explosion of channels where professional
| landscapers and pressure washers do the occasional free job
| on a house in desperate need while recording it for
| YouTube. It's great background TV and likely more effective
| than any kind of paid advertising.
| onemoresoop wrote:
| Be careful with the attention seeking as an incentive.
| People could stage all kind of things just to get the
| attention they crave or monetize.
| thefaux wrote:
| yes, see the cobra effect.
| bluGill wrote:
| Is it? I know of one case where someone cleaned some graffiti
| - but they didn't realize that there was priceless art under
| that graffiti and their cleaning also destroyed the priceless
| art. If experts had been called in they could found and used
| the proper solvent and saved the art. (often this means work
| a couple square cm at a time)
| ssklash wrote:
| I don't think we need to call in experts to decide if we
| need to save swastika graffiti and other hate speech.
| JohnMakin wrote:
| They were saying there could be art under the hate
| speech.. not that the hate speech was art..
| dmd wrote:
| That's going to be my kids' new excuse whenever I ask them
| to do any cleaning whatsoever. WHAT IF THERE'S PRICELESS
| ART UNDER THIS PILE OF LAUNDRY!? BETTER CALL IN THE
| EXPERTS!
| FireBeyond wrote:
| "WIIFM".
|
| I volunteered at an animal shelter that was not no-kill,
| because of sheer demand, sadly.
|
| Of new volunteers, they ask "What's in it for you?"
|
| Inevitably, "I get to help animals find new homes, etc."
|
| However they'd say "No - that's what you'll do here. But what
| do you get out of it?"
|
| And they wanted selfish answers. "I feel better about
| myself", whatever.
|
| Because what they'd found is when things were a struggle, it
| was the "what's in it for me" that often pushed people to
| keep helping and volunteering, rather than (solely) "the
| mission".
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| > "I like to randomly do things to help when nobody's looking,"
| Benigno said. "I'll do just random stuff to help improve things
| that will benefit random people that I've never met before ...
| it's just so that I can do a little thing to fix something so
| somebody doesn't suffer down the road."
|
| We need all of this we can get.
| munificent wrote:
| We also need all of this we can _give_.
|
| So many people are unhappy these days because they feel they
| aren't doing anything that meaningfully helps their
| community. We're a social species. We thrive when we feel we
| are helping our tribe thrive.
| jajko wrote:
| Any parent knows darn well that giving is so much better
| for the giver than just receiving
| dfxm12 wrote:
| It frustrates me to see people in my neighborhood complain
| about minor things on local social media, but do nothing
| about it or even go out of their way to make things worse
| (like complaining about trash on the sidewalk on an
| especially windy day, or walking their dog on the high school
| football field instead of the dog park, which is two blocks
| (!!) further, for example). It feels like it is hard to get
| people to to extend common courtesy towards their neighbors,
| let alone do something good for someone they think they'll
| never run into.
| smm11 wrote:
| I spent a summer 'rescuing' stolen bikes from (mostly homeless)
| chopshops and under-bridge/in desert settlements, and only
| found one or two of more than 50 former bike owners who wanted
| their property back. The risk to me was too great, and I had
| dozens of high-dollar, spraypainted, butchered former nice
| bikes stuffed into my garage.
|
| Never again.
| duxup wrote:
| The more vigilante side of things, gotta be careful too.
|
| I have no problem telling / hoping someone would pickup the
| trash they saw and helped out even if a little. But not so
| much retrieving stolen bikes, those folks, their call.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| >> The risk to me was too great, and I had dozens of high-
| dollar, spraypainted, butchered former nice bikes stuffed
| into my garage.
|
| Possession of stolen property is still a serious crime. There
| is generally no exemption for vigilante people returning
| stolen goods. I honestly would not advise amassing stolen
| property in your garage no matter your good intentions.
| Batman wears a mask for a reason.
| crooked-v wrote:
| I feel like that giant penny has to be over the line of
| felony possession of stolen goods just by itself, right?
| wolverine876 wrote:
| > only found one or two of more than 50 former bike owners
| who wanted their property back
|
| Why didn't they want their bicycles?
| smm11 wrote:
| Insurance settlements and the hassle of fixing what were
| basically trashed bikes. Yes, I realized I was in
| possession of stolen property after a time. I also went
| through a few baseball bats.
| ericmcer wrote:
| How much do you think it would cost the city to implement
| something like this themselves? It would probably involve
| hiring 2-3 bike riders, a manager, some people to
| oversee/analyze the efficacy of the program, an approved supply
| chain using approved vendors. They could probably get a couple
| bikes with magnets on them riding around the city for < 3m
| year.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| If your point is that it costs less to have someone do
| something for free than to hire and supervise workers to do
| the same task, I don't think that's particularly insightful!
| munificent wrote:
| Well, the better approach at city scale is to use actual
| street sweepers.
|
| Magnets don't pick up broken glass.
| scrose wrote:
| The city would extend a no-bid contract to run a 6-month
| pilot in a 3 block radius.
|
| It'd go to a random company that never did anything related
| to trash pick up, but one of the board members would be
| loosely related to the mayor.
|
| The mayor will then do a victory lap in front of journalists
| talking about this revolutionary project.
|
| The winner would then sub-contract a series of shell
| companies to handle 'planning the design and implementation'
| of the vehicle used to pick up the debris.
|
| 3 months will pass and the first community board meeting
| about the pilot in the neighborhood will happen, where the
| project will hit vicious opposition from people citing
| gentrification, how this pilot will rip apart the fabric of
| the neighborhood, cause gridlock, be dangerous for kids (What
| if a kid runs infront of the magnet bike??), etc...
|
| 6 months and $5M later, the pilot gets extended and another
| $50M worth of funding having never picked up an ounce of
| trash.
|
| Hello from NYC
| ThisIsMyAltAcct wrote:
| This guy on youtube goes around cleaning blocked drains and has
| inspired some copycats
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV9dOHRDb3c
| NotSammyHagar wrote:
| thanks for posting, that was strangely a great and positive
| example of what we can all do.
| bsder wrote:
| It's nice that individuals can do things like clean the streets
| ...
|
| But how about we actually fund street sweeping at a level that
| this isn't necessary?
| bluGill wrote:
| I normally figure scrap iron goes for about $.35/lb. So he has
| collected about $150 worth of scrap so far. Not a bad pay off for
| getting your daily exercise. Too bad magnets cannot collect
| aluminum or copper - both are more valuable.
|
| He donated his collection to a scrap artist (probably a worthy
| cause though that depends on your subjective opinion on the art
| produced), so he doesn't get the money, but it is still fun to
| figure out the value of his work.
| RandomBacon wrote:
| > the value of his work
|
| That he could cash out on. The greater value is all the time in
| people's lives that would have been wasted from damaged tires:
| fixing or replacing the tire, time spent to earn money to fix
| or replace the tire, the time people would have spent in
| traffic trying to get around the disabled vehicles, etc.
| no_wizard wrote:
| The value is helping the community, first and foremost, isn't
| it?
|
| The computed dollar value is pale by comparison. We should talk
| more about this community value IMO
| bluGill wrote:
| There is more than one value. I talked about two of them, but
| that doesn't mean those are the only two. That just means
| that are the only two that I feel like I can contribute
| anything to the discussion of in one topic. Technically I
| probably should have written two posts so that discussion of
| the art created and the scrap value of his collection can be
| talked about separately.
| zerohm wrote:
| His IG is a pretty interesting follow (@atlantamagnetman) as he
| has briefly explained the various iterations and improvements to
| his magnet cart.
| btbuildem wrote:
| Not to sound like an armchair road-debris-cleaner but.. Wouldn't
| it be much better to have the magnet contraption in the front of
| the bike, so you can bravely delve into the most metal-shard-
| infested areas without fear of puncturing your own tires?
| PM_me_your_math wrote:
| Pushing a trailer doesn't really work. You'd need an apparatus
| big enough to hold magnets and FOD, and allow you to steer
| unobstructed. A purpose built vehicle with a cab-over design
| would be easier to control.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Dutch cargo bikes / bakfietsen want a word.
|
| That said, those are a lot higher off the ground; the video
| shows the sweepers are only an inch or so over the ground. If
| something catches, it's more likely to just make the cart
| buck instead of sending the driver.
|
| Source: am Dutch, rode into a rock once, that was pretty bad.
| loeg wrote:
| A dutch cargo bike still has the front wheel in front of
| the load, too -- vulnerable to any sharp objects that the
| magnets haven't picked up yet.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Breaking down the word "trailer" pretty implies that it will
| be something behind. Attempting to use the word trailer for
| something that is in front just seems like an extreme abuse
| of the word
| _iv wrote:
| The design is mostly limited by what can be built on a budget
| from off-the-shelf components. Additionally, the magnets plus
| accumulated scrap metal look pretty heavy- anything far enough
| in front of the wheel base would change the center of mass in a
| poor direction.
| duxup wrote:
| Pulling on something with a bike seems significantly easier
| than pushing.
|
| I think the rate of tire puncturing is low enough that you
| wouldn't bother changing the design.
| doubled112 wrote:
| Plus if something goes wrong on a bike, you want it to go
| wrong behind you.
|
| What happens when the rear wheel locks up? Not much
|
| What happens if the front wheel locks up? If it catches you
| off guard, you're launched face first into pavement.
| whycome wrote:
| And a front wheel failure would mean you launch into the
| 'metal contraption' ahead of you.
| doubled112 wrote:
| It's just helping break your fall.
| dylan604 wrote:
| this is one of those lessons from high school physics that
| has always stuck with me. taking the forces involved in
| pushing and pulling and breaking them down into vectors,
| pushing is always physically more expensive
| wolverine876 wrote:
| > I think the rate of tire puncturing is low enough that you
| wouldn't bother changing the design.
|
| Generally it's low, but in this case you are purposely
| steering toward the debris. Usually you avoid it if you see
| it.
| mrob wrote:
| You can get highly puncture-resistant bicycle tires, e.g.
| Schwalbe Marathon Plus, which can survive riding over thumb
| tacks. They're heavy, but if you're already pulling a heavy
| magnet you probably won't mind.
| IncreasePosts wrote:
| No, it would be much more difficult to control. You can buy
| kevlar tire liner to reduce the likelihood of punctures though.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| Just yesterday I used picking up screws as an example of how
| kindness is an underrated exercise in efficiency.
|
| A minuscule effort up front avoids disproportionately larger
| effort later.
| stuaxo wrote:
| "..Atlanta does quarterly street sweeping.." this stood out.
|
| Is that the normal amount. In the UK I see sweepers around, I
| guess maybe it takes that long to get around or do we just sweep
| more in other countries ?
|
| EDIT: I looked up my area in London
| https://www.southwark.gov.uk/street-care/litter-on-streets-a...
| Most residential roads in the borough receive a litter- picking
| service every other day and are manually swept once every 5
| weeks. Busy areas, such as retail areas, have a daily presence to
| make sure they're kept clean and litter free.
|
| I know US infrastructure is worse, but this is to quite a
| ridiculous level - the amount of damage everyone is paying for,
| for their cars is insane.
| aquaticsunset wrote:
| NYC street sweeping is once or twice a week, for the most part.
|
| My (my much smaller, car dependent city) is annually.
| duxup wrote:
| > US infrastructure
|
| The state of infrastructure greatly depends on where you are in
| the US.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| The City of Atlanta, like many (most?) urban governments, can't
| do simple tasks at a reasonable cost. It spent $27 million on a
| pedestrian bridge over a surface road and during the primary
| justification for it, the Super Bowl, wasn't even used.
|
| https://atlanta.curbed.com/2019/1/29/18201457/super-bowl-lii...
|
| Around the same time, a nearby suburban county only spent $10
| million for a pedestrian and road bridge over a heavily used
| Interstate highway to get fans from parking areas to their
| stadium.
| bombcar wrote:
| According to that article, it was used exactly for what it
| was intended for - to allow the privileged to stay away from
| the horrible urban masses.
| seneca wrote:
| > I know US infrastructure is worse, but this is to quite a
| ridiculous level - the amount of damage everyone is paying for,
| for their cars is insane.
|
| It's not this bad everywhere. Atlanta is a notoriously corrupt
| and poorly run city.
| sf_rob wrote:
| At a glance London has 4x the population density. Atlanta, like
| most US cities, is sprawling. I would think this would make
| street cleaning less economical (although not to the degree of
| quarterly sweepings).
|
| Dense US cities, such as SF and NYC, have more regular
| sweepings.
| rconti wrote:
| My silicon valley residential area is swept twice a month. But
| I'm not sure more major multi-lane arterials are ever swept. At
| least, not during daylight hours.
| duffyjp wrote:
| Madison WI checking in. We get two passes in March then monthly
| until winter. I checked our city website and the volume of
| debris was pretty surprising to me:
|
| > In 2023, 6,633.46 tons of debris was swept from the roads and
| hauled to the Dane County Landfill.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > I know US infrastructure is worse
|
| You know what you hear online, you mean.
| ericmcer wrote:
| The amount of street sweeping is directly correlated with how
| much they can make ticketing cars that are parked in street
| sweeping zones. In San Francisco they sweep the streets daily
| and throw $70-80 tickets to any car caught during sweeping
| time. Does the street accumulate enough garbage in 24 hours to
| warrant another sweeping? Irrelevant.
| goda90 wrote:
| Why doesn't the city run street sweepers on these roads?
| TrueGeek wrote:
| The article mentions that Atlanta runs sweeps quarterly. This
| is only inside the city though. I live outside the city (25 to
| 90 minutes depending on traffic) and we don't get any sweeping.
| The intersection outside our neighborhood gets about an
| accident a week and it's just constantly filled with glass and,
| occasionally, bumpers. The tow truck drivers are normally kind
| enough to sweep it to the side but that isn't great for
| cyclists. Everyone drives SUVs here and their tires are big
| enough that glass doesn't matter so no one is going to agree to
| pay for sweepers.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| And that's just off to the side, it'll accumulate and / or
| spread from there.
|
| When I visited the US and its highways, I was surprised to
| see how much things like exploded truck tires were littering
| the sides of the road.
| sokoloff wrote:
| Drive in the south in the summertime and the "road gators"
| (truck tire remnants) are often in the middle of travel
| lanes.
| yborg wrote:
| Doesn't solve the problem, just pushes the stuff into the curbs
| where it then is a concentrated threat to bike tires. What they
| should do is mount a big electromagnet on the back of the
| sweeper to then pick any metal up.
| goda90 wrote:
| The sweepers I'm familiar with sweep the debris under the
| machine and then into a holding space. Does that not work
| with this kind of debris?
| BatFastard wrote:
| Street sweepers actually do pick up the debris, not just
| deposit it in the gutter. At least here in Atlanta they do.
| gadders wrote:
| What a good dude.
| xnx wrote:
| More heavily engineered version of a similar idea:
| https://bikelanesweeper.com/
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| The exact image and thing is mentioned in the article.
| LazyMans wrote:
| We don't read articles here! Just the comments!
| foolinaround wrote:
| Kudos to the Magnet man!!
|
| if that magnet cart design could be open-sourced, then it might
| be updated or made cheaper by others, and used in other places
| too!
| einpoklum wrote:
| Most important point in that story AFAIAC:
|
| > Atlanta's transportation department budget was cut by 12% last
| year. ... about $50 million is three times less than peer cities.
|
| sad.
| Jun8 wrote:
| Oh man, this _really_ strikes home for me:
|
| Last month we had to shell out close to $1k to replace all four
| tires when a large (>10cm) nail punctured one. Costco guy said
| you had to change all of them, I didn't't believe him but after
| research found out that if you have some mileage on your tires,
| you can't just change one (actually there was mentioned of
| reducing the grooves of the new tire to match the old ones but
| that sounded error prone).
|
| We need a magnet man for all big cities!
| kurthr wrote:
| Unless you have a lot of wear on your tires, or you're driving
| an AWD, it's unusual to need to replace more than 2 tires.
|
| The argument on AWD is that it might cause more expensive
| increased wear on the AWD system in off-road conditions. If
| you're only driving on roads this probably isn't such a big
| deal, and some sports cars don't even have the same size tires
| front/back.
|
| Most nails and screws (1/8" or 3mm) in the middle of the tire
| can be patched (if you're not driving >100mph), but that was
| one BIG nail! Side walls really can't be safely patched, and
| most places won't patch anything even close.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| I heard a loud clicking noise while driving to work one day
| and pulled over to check. Had an "eggbeater-type" mixer
| sticking out of my tire sidewall.
|
| Shop asked if they could have it for their countertop display
| of weird stuff they pulled out of tires.
|
| Anyway, they recommended replacing both front tires, but I
| only did the one and it was fine. I understand the reasoning,
| I just don't agree with it because tires simply don't wear at
| the same rate.
| whaleofatw2022 wrote:
| Above is semi dependent on the AWD system.
|
| If it is one of the 'typical' ones you see on something like
| a Ford Escape or Chevy Blazer where it activates on slippage,
| you are probably OK on normal roads as long as the wear isn't
| extreme.
|
| But if it's something with a 50/50 default split or other
| 'always on' fanciness, tires are cheaper than Diffs.
| xeromal wrote:
| You can avoid this by having a full-sized spare and rotating it
| in during your tire rotations. It's what I do so if one goes to
| shit, you still have 4 even ones left. If you never have a
| failure, you get much better mileage because one of your tires
| always gets to rest.
| bongodongobob wrote:
| That's only true for AWD. Otherwise it's 2. Also, consider
| buying used for a fraction of the price. Plenty of cars with
| good tires end up in junkyards. I've never bought new tires.
| bluGill wrote:
| If you do not have free labor and time used tires are not
| worth it. You don't save much money and you have to replace
| them sooner which means even more time of yours spent.
|
| Used tires make sense for used car dealers where they have
| the equipment and can tell a mechanic to do this "when you
| have otherwise free time". In that case you can replace worn
| out tires with only half used tires and since you won't see
| the car again you don't lose anything. (nobody would buy the
| car with worn out tires so you have to replace them, but
| saving money on the replacement is a good idea)
| legitster wrote:
| You have no idea what you are talking about. Look up used
| tire shops in your city.
|
| To OP's point, most of the used tires are nearly brand new
| tires that are getting tossed out because 1 of the set had
| a flat. So I am rolling on $300 Hanook tires with 95% of
| their tread life, and I only paid $50 a tire (including
| install).
|
| These are also mom & pop businesses that are actively
| preventing waste.
|
| I made the switch to used tires and have never looked back.
| bombcar wrote:
| Used tires are great, especially if you're in a city of
| almost any moderate size or larger.
|
| If you're in a small town, the hassle of finding the
| right size may be enough to make the new tires worth it.
|
| Either way, you can almost always find a "free install"
| somewhere.
| bongodongobob wrote:
| You're just wrong all around here.
| onemoresoop wrote:
| Does replacing only two tires on each side not work in this
| case?
| bluGill wrote:
| You want to replace fronts or rears at the same time, not
| sides.
| onemoresoop wrote:
| Could you please explain why is that?
| BoorishBears wrote:
| Front tires have matching functionality, back tires have
| matching functionality, regardless of drivetrain. You
| don't want differing capacity for the same function
| (steering, braking, or acceleration) on the left and
| right side or the car will pull to one side.
| legitster wrote:
| The suspension of the car is designed to distribute
| weight to make the car ride evenly. Even small diameter
| differences across your car might send the weight to one
| side. Best case you prematurely wear the tires. Worse
| case it creates unsafe handling characteristics when
| turning.
|
| In contrast the regularly tilts forwards and back, and
| little changes back and forth don't affect steering.
| wtracy wrote:
| The last time I had to replace four tires at once, the mechanic
| could no longer source the model of tire that my car had, and
| refused to mix tire models on my car.
| nradov wrote:
| You can just change one tire, but you need to shave the tread
| down to match the depth of the others or else it will damage
| the drive train (mismatched rotation speeds). This is
| particularly important for AWD vehicles due to wear on the
| differentials.
|
| Costco doesn't offer that service. But you can order a shaved
| replacement from Tire Rack and they'll ship it to a local shop
| for installation. This works fine but takes a few days so it's
| only practical if you can leave the vehicle parked.
|
| https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/can-tires-be-shaved-...
| sandworm101 wrote:
| >> After research found out that if you have some mileage on
| your tires, you can't just change one
|
| You go played by the mechanic. Even if the tread depth thing
| was an issue, you could have swapped out two rather than four.
| Unless you are racing, your car will be fine with slightly
| different treads rear and front. The reality is that most cars
| are like that anyway. Fronts often wear more than rears these
| days. So unless you are rotating your tires every month, tread
| depths will be different no matter what you do.
| legitster wrote:
| If OP has an AWD the mechanic has to swap out all four.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| The AWD argument is one of those things that sounds logical
| but really isn't. Lots of AWD vehicles, I would say most
| AWD vehicles, are driving around with slightly different
| sized tired front-to-rear. Fronts just wear faster than
| rears. So within a few miles even a brand new car will have
| slightly smaller fronts than rear. The diff will be fine.
|
| Think of this scenario. What happens when someone sits in
| the back seat of a car? That compresses the rear tires
| slightly, imparting a slightly a different radius. Many
| cars will ask you to increase rear PSI to compensate, but
| nobody ever does. Are diffs failing for this? Nope. AWD
| cars and trucks manage carrying a random number of rear
| passengers just fine without any adjustment to tire radii.
| legitster wrote:
| I am not an expert on the sorts of computer chicanery
| that goes into AWD systems. But there is quite a big
| difference between the normal discrepancies that happen
| while driving and throwing in one or two brand new tires.
| Especially given that AWDs are already supposed to
| account for things like wheel slippage and power
| distribution.
|
| Besides, regardless if it's a myth - doing it will void
| your warranty, it's a requirement in every AWD service
| manual, and any tire guy caught doing it will be held
| liable if your diff blows up later. No mechanic or tire
| shop will agree to swapping out just two.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| Everything voids warranties. If you are driving a new
| car, ie one still under warrantee, then you have to do
| whatever they want you to do. But there are lots of
| little myths about fixing cars, stuff leveraged by
| mechanics. Telling people that a diff will "blow" should
| the tires be 0.1% different in size is one of those
| myths. The entire purpose of a diff is to allow wheels to
| turn at different rates, hence the name _different_ ial.
| Only when you are getting towards differences enough to
| trigger anti-slip mechanisms during normal driving would
| it become an issue.
|
| The manual probably also says that aftermarket oil/air
| filters will void warrantees, or that changing your own
| brake pads is dangerous. Total bunk.
| legitster wrote:
| Most AWDs use a central diff for all four wheels. It's
| for distributing different amounts of torque front and
| back. It's not quite the same as a 2WD or 4WD
| differential(s) that only handle left/right. It's not at
| all the same as just a big open differential. A central
| diff compensating for front/back distribution while also
| handling a _constant_ mismatched load on one side is
| definitely going to mess it up.
|
| If it's your car feel free to try it and tell me if you
| get a bunch of dash lights from your AWD computer.
|
| > The manual probably also says that aftermarket oil/air
| filters will void warrantees, or that changing your own
| brake pads is dangerous.
|
| If your manual actually says this I will eat my hat. It's
| literally illegal in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wik
| i/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| If you have a true full-time AWD vehicle such as a Subaru
| or Audi with longitudinal engine, then mismatched tire
| wear will cause increased wear and tear on the center
| differential, which is expensive and difficult to get to.
| This is especially true if the differential is limited-
| slip.
|
| If you have a torsen or similar FWD car that only engages
| the rear wheels when slip is detected (most Audis with
| transverse mounted engines, VWs, etc), then you're fine.
|
| Tire diameter in passenger cars does not change with
| loading.
| creato wrote:
| Such cars also have rotating the tires as part of the
| maintenance schedule. If you rotate the tires, I don't
| think the difference in size will be significant.
|
| > Think of this scenario. What happens when someone sits
| in the back seat of a car? That compresses the rear tires
| slightly, imparting a slightly a different radius.
|
| The tire radius changes, but that doesn't matter. What
| matters is the rate at which the axle turns relative to
| distance covered, and I doubt that changes significantly
| with loading.
| Der_Einzige wrote:
| So, I straight up don't get how this works but there's a tire
| shop called "discount tire" which "insures" tires for such a
| nominal fee that I couldn't believe it. I've gone through three
| sets of tires now for a price of approximately ~40$ each set
| (the new sets keep insurance). This is for a Lexus. That tire
| shop has to have lost a whole lot of money on my car, but they
| have no issues with this policy at all.
|
| Did I just get extremely lucky? Is this the norm? Tires seem
| really expensive but somehow I'm not paying the fees and my
| tires are good quality goodyears too.
| bombcar wrote:
| Many places "insure" the tire to a certain amount depending
| on road wear.
|
| Most people forget about the "tire insurance" and never
| claim, even if they could, so it's basically free money.
|
| They give you new tires because it doesn't cost them
| anything, they get paid.
|
| Discount considers it part of their marketing, so they
| actually have a pretty decent one:
| https://www.discounttire.com/customer-service/certificates
|
| It IS limited to 3 years.
| rrauenza wrote:
| Whenever I see a screw or nail in the street or parking lot, I
| always pick it up and naively hope that karma will prevent my
| tire from picking up one in another location.
| bluGill wrote:
| I figure it costs $10 to repair a tire. So I saved someone $10
| every time I do this. Sometimes that someone is me.
| Symbiote wrote:
| I pick up empty bottles and put them in the nearest glass bin.
| There are glass bins on both corners approaching my apartment,
| so I don't even need to walk out of my way to do this.
|
| Most of them would probably stay for a few days until someone
| cleans the street, but it only takes one unhappy drunk to knock
| a bottle into the street.
|
| I probably look like a terminal alcoholic to my neighbours.
| limaoscarjuliet wrote:
| He is saving our bike tires rather, as he seems to ride the
| shoulder more than the car lanes (and rightly so).
|
| I live in Atlanta, ride both car and bicycle and do not have flat
| tire more often than average. Perhaps thanks to his help!
| bombcar wrote:
| Most roadside debris is on the shoulder as it gets knocked
| there pretty quickly out of traffic lanes - and it can still
| affect the cars if you have to cross them.
|
| Every time I've had a flat caused by a road item it has been on
| or very near the shoulder.
| bjornlouser wrote:
| "Nearly every day, Benigno bikes about 10 miles and picks up
| around six pounds of debris -- about the max the magnets can
| carry. Over the course of eight weeks, he collected over 410
| pounds of metal..."
| ajb wrote:
| Yeah that stood out to me too. What the heck is dropping all
| this stuff?
|
| Round here if you put any sizeable metal (like a radiator or
| something) out front of your house someone will collect it to
| take for scrap. So if there were that amount of metal on the
| roads they would be keen to attach magnets to their vans.
| Although if it needs a large number of high quality magnets to
| do the job, it might not be economic for them.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I've watched trash just blow off of trash trucks, bounce out
| of trailers.
|
| You'd think there would be better enforcement of having to
| have a tarp, etc. for open trailers that are carrying junk.
| newsclues wrote:
| I would love for local bike shops to build these and let people
| use them.
| StarlaAtNight wrote:
| Any tech folks here want to help people that do this collect
| data on how much they get and where from? Zero clue how useful
| that would be, but it would certainly be interesting
| verisimi wrote:
| His name is 'Beningo' - meaning "benevolent , kind" from
| https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/spanish-english/...
|
| also benign.
| ASalazarMX wrote:
| Benigno is a common name, and also has the same meaning, in
| Spanish. What a perfect aptonym.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > Nearly every day, Benigno bikes about 10 miles and picks up
| around six pounds of debris -- about the max the magnets can
| carry.
|
| As an European, this left me a bit shocked. Where is that debris
| even coming from? Shoddily "maintained" vehicles? Insecure loads?
| And why are there no sweeper trucks sweeping the streets and bike
| lanes?
| secstate wrote:
| The last line in the article jumped out at me: "A lot of folks
| ... they're kind of DIY-ing it until we can get the level of
| public service that we really need."
|
| I am through "A Paradise Built in Hell" right now, and that,
| combined with having spent 6 years in a (small) town leadership
| position makes me appreciate the unfortunate consequences of
| thought like that last line.
|
| It feels like leaning hard into capitalist democracy rather than
| socialist democracy. The idea that things don't get done unless
| someone gets off their butt, puts a line item in the budget and
| makes sure someone is getting paid to do it not because they want
| to but because their compensation is adequate is destined to fail
| in really unfortunate ways.
|
| Part of the book referenced above is all about the failure of the
| "organized" parts of government in times of crisis. It turns out,
| most people in community want things to be better, but learning
| that the "city" or "county" will do it for you if you just pay
| your taxes kind of neuters the impulse to be a part of your
| community. Instead of cleaning up the road side, people end up
| with book clubs or art committees, because someone's getting paid
| $12/hr to clean up the road for you. It's not a great look, and
| has disastrous consequences when things go really bad.
| jollyllama wrote:
| Yes and what's going on there is that the official is
| uncomfortable because the failure of government is being
| exposed by guys like Magnet Man. They're so petty and feckless
| that they can't cooperate with him, or deputize him in some
| way.
| secstate wrote:
| Having been a public official your adjectives for the public
| official in this case made my hackles go up for a moment, but
| you're also absolutely right. The hidden assumption in those
| sorts of statements is that it's all good for volunteers to
| try to help, but one day "authorized" people will be able to
| do that work, but only if we are allowed to raise your taxes.
| Sigh.
|
| The problem is, not all bureaucrats are evil, but all
| bureaucracy begins at neutral and tends towards evil, so
| there's a sad inevitability involved. And my hackles went up
| because even I, who consider myself pretty self-aware, ended
| up in some horrible conversations where I know I preferred
| the town having authority over something volunteers had
| historically done. We are all part-nazi, some of us just have
| more authority.
| beavis000 wrote:
| The author David Sedaris is apparently a compulsive trash picker-
| upper. He's said he has walked for up to 9 hours per days picking
| up garbage on the side of the road all the while. His town in the
| UK named a garbage truck after him, and he was invited to meet
| the Queen of England because of it (she used to meet with people
| who performed large amounts of community service).
| rockostrich wrote:
| His stories about some of the things he encountered on these
| walks are pretty funny. Can't wait for the next installment of
| his memoirs.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Loved the video. I was getting some Katamari Damacy vibes from
| all those bolts and such glomming onto his magnets.
| notatoad wrote:
| >And while Atlanta does quarterly street sweeping
|
| i don't really know what a normal street sweeping schedule is,
| but this seems kinda infrequent? i know my town does a big sweep
| in the spring after the snow melts, but it seems like most of the
| major routes and all of downtown is on more like a weekly to
| monthly basis.
| culopatin wrote:
| Weekly where I am.
| hammock wrote:
| Monthly in Chicago. Between apr-oct. Frequency needed probably
| depends on how many trees you have
| charlescearl wrote:
| The bitter irony of Georgia attorney general filing RICO charges
| against forest defenders for the act of "mutual aid". This is
| what mutual aid is - a community actively working together to
| address the neglect of the state.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2024-03-01 23:01 UTC)