[HN Gopher] A mechanical keyboard with programmable knobs and fu...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A mechanical keyboard with programmable knobs and full color screen
       panel
        
       Author : _justinfunk
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2024-02-29 19:38 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (knob.design)
 (TXT) w3m dump (knob.design)
        
       | interstice wrote:
       | I like that one but I'm holding on for this one
       | https://worklouder.cc/nomad-e/
       | 
       | I also love my Nuphy 96, but it's knobless
        
         | jgalt212 wrote:
         | why do most / all of these artisanal keyboards lack numeric
         | keypad?
        
           | someotherperson wrote:
           | Because the numeric keypads are largely unused and not
           | ergonomic (wrist travel distance from letters to mouse). They
           | are the "tenkeyless" variety, which many prefer. You can find
           | full 104-key mechanical keyboards if you want as well, or get
           | an external numeric keypad.
        
           | Cyberdog wrote:
           | Cynical answer: These things are expensive enough without
           | adding another two dozen switches, and besides, Kids These
           | Days grew up using laptops and don't get the point of having
           | numpads when the numbers are all already there above the
           | letters.
        
             | airstrike wrote:
             | FWIW I grew up on the desktop and also _don 't_ get the
             | point of having numpads when the numbers are all already
             | there above the letters
        
               | baal80spam wrote:
               | It's infinitely faster to enter numbers using a numpad,
               | and some people do that a lot.
        
           | cassianoleal wrote:
           | You can configure a layer to act as one, without adding more
           | hardware and making the keyboard larger and less ergonomic.
        
         | fht wrote:
         | would order this immediately if it had a function row
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | Why does anything fun end up as a compact keyboard with no
       | numeric pad and cramped navigation keys?
       | 
       | How am I supposed to write code or even play a game on this?
       | 
       | And tbh... people who would be interested in this have multiple
       | monitors, or one very large monitor. There should be plenty of
       | space in front of it for a full size keyboard.
        
         | relyks wrote:
         | I personally like preserving as much desk space as possible and
         | I find that a numeric pad isn't essential. I don't input
         | numbers a lot. Navigation keys are very useful for coding
         | though...
        
           | garciasn wrote:
           | Look at this psychopath not using vi/m.
           | 
           | I'm kidding. I use VSCodium on the desktop and heavily modded
           | vim on VMs.
        
             | nottorp wrote:
             | Well i use pgup/down and home/end extensively. Grew up with
             | Borland IDEs.
             | 
             | The numpad... maybe i could live without it, but I do use
             | it.
        
               | sonicanatidae wrote:
               | I keyed in games from magazines into things like a
               | Vic-20, or C-64 or Ti99-4a, as a kid. To me, the lack of
               | a tenkey means it's not really a kbd, just a toy.
        
         | flylikeabanana wrote:
         | Tenkeyless (TKL) keyboards are popular because you can keep
         | your mouse hand closer to your keyboard. The tenkey is a easy
         | thing to lose if you don't do much data entry.
         | 
         | As for writing code and playing games, I use vim keybinds
         | everywhere and play games with WASD controls. So nav keys
         | aren't particularly critical either.
        
           | LegitShady wrote:
           | most people spend too long all day hunching their shoulders
           | because they're typing. They would be better off if they
           | didn't bring their hands closer together. That's the whole
           | advantage of split keyboards too.
        
             | jwells89 wrote:
             | Split keyboards are a much better way to accomplish that,
             | though. Standard keyboards end up pushing the home row way
             | off-center no matter what, which for me at least is
             | uncomfortable for anything but short bursts of typing.
        
           | derekp7 wrote:
           | If it doesn't have the 10-key, then at least put the top
           | number keys in the standard typewriter position. This
           | keyboard has the number keys shifted to the left a bit by
           | about a quarter key width, which will cause errors for touch
           | typists that also touch-type the number keys.
        
         | gigaflop wrote:
         | When people are already chopping out numpads, etc, in their
         | custom designs, they can afford an extra horizontal inch of
         | space on their keebs for fancy features, without getting too
         | big.
         | 
         | For a large segment of people, a keyboard like this has
         | everything they need on it: WASD, numrow, arrows.
        
           | slily wrote:
           | You could easily fit extra controls on a full-size keyboard
           | as long as the keyboard and mouse are not wider than your
           | shoulders. TKL has no ergonomic benefit, it's just an
           | opinionated design decision which is common today because
           | people don't learn to use a numeric pad. Cramped designs are
           | good for portability, but bad for ergonomics.
           | 
           | Personally, I will never buy a TKL keyboard. I may rarely use
           | the numeric pad, but rarely is not never, and I can think of
           | a few specific use cases aside from typing in numbers quickly
           | that require one. I wouldn't mind a keyboard with even more
           | keys to provide better coverage of legacy layouts.
        
         | someotherperson wrote:
         | I've been writing code for many years and have never needed a
         | numeric pad. My keyboard since about 2015 doesn't even have
         | navigation keys: I use a combination of the caps lock
         | (reprogrammed as a function key) and IJKL. Works fine for me.
        
         | jwells89 wrote:
         | Integrated numpads and navkeys end up gathering dust most of
         | the time for my usage. I like the macOS global text nav
         | shortcuts[0][1] better than the typical dedicated keys, and I
         | rarely enter numbers in great enough quantity that speed
         | matters. For the odd occasion I do need to enter numbers, I
         | have a separate numpad I can pull out and set to the _left_ of
         | my keyboard, where it's not dislocating my keyboard's home row
         | or messing with mousing space.
         | 
         | [0]: https://jblevins.org/log/kbd [1]:
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20220217071143/https://www.hcs.h...
        
       | quatrefoil wrote:
       | My first thought: gosh, these knobs don't seem at all comfortable
       | to operate.
        
       | Rafuino wrote:
       | Not a fan of those low profile and also circular pad keycaps.
       | Gives you even less room to hit the right key! Not for me, but
       | maybe someone else likes that
        
       | k8svet wrote:
       | Looks neat. Seems entirely impractical from keycaps, to the
       | staggered layout, complete with non-existent ergonomics and the
       | odd choice of non-knurled knobs. But, neat.
        
       | airstrike wrote:
       | Looks great. There aren't enough low profile keyboards around and
       | my wrists really prefer them
       | 
       | But I'd trade the useless screen and slightly-less-useless knobs
       | for home/end/pgup/pgdn/del/ins any day of the week
       | 
       | And the keycaps _seem_ like bad ergonomics but I can 't really
       | bash them without trying
        
       | jwells89 wrote:
       | A couple of other similar low profile keyboard projects some may
       | be interested in:
       | 
       | https://monokei.co/systems https://electronicmaterialsoffice.com/
        
       | aethr wrote:
       | One thing that's keeping my hand on the mouse and stopping me
       | from going full keyboard, is the free scrolling mousewheel on
       | logitech mice. I find it such an ergonomic and natural way to get
       | to the right place in long documents (and code).
       | 
       | What I would really love is a keyboard with this sort of scroll
       | wheel embedded just on the edge of the keys. All the keyboards I
       | see with knobs / rotary encoders look cool but I can't see myself
       | using a vertical knob for scrolling a document. Do any custom
       | keyboard builds feature a mousewheel?
        
         | swader999 wrote:
         | Checkout Contour Design RollerMouse Red. I've always been
         | intrigued by it but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
        
         | ivanjermakov wrote:
         | I use Vimium browser extension and neovim with remapped C-u &
         | C-d. Navigating long pages and files is a breeze with HJKL.
        
         | CatchSwitch wrote:
         | There are horizontal rotary encoders with click functionality
         | (The component is called EVQWGD001). Unfortunately the pin
         | layout differs from the vertical rotary encoders so you need a
         | custom PCB or hack some custom wiring together. They're more
         | common on split keyboards from what I've found.
         | 
         | You can buy a preassembled split keyboard with this from
         | https://ergomech.store (I've been looking at purchasing one
         | from them). There's also a seller on etsy who offers split
         | keyboards with the horizontal encoder.
        
         | Cockbrand wrote:
         | Around the turn of the millennium, I had a Logitech keyboard
         | which featured a scroll wheel (and dedicated keys for media
         | control, search and other stuff). I don't recall the model, but
         | you might get lucky on eBay with a bit of searching.
         | 
         | [EDIT: After a bit of research, I found the model: Logitech
         | Internet Navigator Keyboard]
        
       | smrtinsert wrote:
       | Lower is achy for me. Even the premium magic keyboard for macs
       | hurts. I'd much rather have a nice comfortable bounce
        
       | jerlam wrote:
       | Too bad that Apple never made a standalone keyboard with Touch
       | Bar. It along with the Elgato Stream Decks do show there's a
       | demand for these things.
        
       | timkpaine wrote:
       | Looks like an OP-1 [1], as do those in [2].
       | 
       | [1] https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1 [2]
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39555544
        
         | jmgrosen wrote:
         | Especially the Field model!
        
           | Cockbrand wrote:
           | Keycap design was probably inspired by 1970s/80s Siemens
           | keyboards, e.g. https://preview.redd.it/6gqyzdshdfp01.jpg?wid
           | th=1080&crop=sm...
        
       | bqmjjx0kac wrote:
       | The name might need revising for the UK market.
        
         | spogbiper wrote:
         | My first thought.. they are really going to call this "the
         | knob"?
        
         | Xiol32 wrote:
         | "The year of the knob" did give me a chuckle. Almost as bad as
         | that crypto company that called themselves Nonce Finance.
        
       | tagyro wrote:
       | The keyboard is nice (ish) but the keys layout is wrong for macOS
       | (command-option/alt-control order).
       | 
       | Personally I also prefer to have a numpad.
        
         | nemomarx wrote:
         | Usually you can remap the layout in the firmware, and it should
         | be easy to move the caps around?
        
       | AdamH12113 wrote:
       | I've been thinking it would be fun to make a big console-like
       | keyboard with a whole other set of keys above the normal keyboard
       | for things like Greek letters, mathematical symbols, additional
       | punctuation marks, etc. If I used OLED keycaps, there could be a
       | big scroll wheel on one side that would select which character
       | set was used for the supplemental keyboard.
       | 
       | Simplicity and portability have their uses, but I've always had a
       | fondness for the aesthetics of those complicated-looking
       | industrial control consoles. (The ergonomics are much better,
       | too!)
        
         | Pet_Ant wrote:
         | Well you could use this PCB and add the Greek letters as extra
         | columns. These are 6 row 9 column.
         | 
         | https://keeb.io/products/bfo-9000-keyboard-customizable-full...
        
           | AdamH12113 wrote:
           | I would probably make my own PCB for this if I actually get
           | around to doing it. (I'm an EE, so making custom hardware
           | would be half the fun.) The tricky part for me would be
           | writing a driver. I suspect that's where it would fall apart;
           | to my understanding keyboards (as a standard device type) use
           | a limited number of scan codes and the mapping to characters
           | is done in the OS based on the locale settings. I'm not clear
           | on how hard it is to get e.g. Unicode code points through a
           | USB port -- [1] says there's no standard way, while [2] seems
           | to have hacked something up with alt codes. I suspect that
           | would introduce input lag, though.
           | 
           | [1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37203616/how-do-i-
           | direct...
           | 
           | [2] https://hackaday.io/project/192644-unicode-binary-input-
           | term...
        
       | natpalmer1776 wrote:
       | I wish there was an OEM or Cherry profile keyboard that offered
       | the same features. It seems that all the innovative features are
       | getting slapped exclusively onto low-profile keyboards.
        
       | PhyllisEngine wrote:
       | Compact is kinda frustrating, for years I used a full size board
       | and finally swapped to a 60%. Even though you can remap keys,
       | it's pretty annoying compared to my last setup.
        
       | bloopernova wrote:
       | I'm still using and enjoying my Keychron Alice-layout 75% Q10[1],
       | Q0 Plus[2], and the 3D printed fully open source Ploopy Mouse[3].
       | 
       | All are configured via QMK, although I only custom compile a
       | firmware for the mouse. For the keyboards I just use VIA, which
       | is plenty capable.
       | 
       | For the numberpad, I have the macro keys and the numlock key
       | assigned to A through F, so I have a hexadecimal keypad when I
       | want it. On the Q10 main keyboard, I have macro keys assigned to
       | ctrl-r and ctrl-t for fzf, plus alt-x, ctrl-g, and ctrl-x ctrl-s
       | for Emacs.
       | 
       | The ploopy mouse is a marvel, although I wish its wheel was
       | sticky/stepped and not freely-rotating. I wish I had the skills
       | to design a vertical version of the mouse and transfer the guts
       | to that, but I'm a complete idiot when it comes to 3D stuff.
       | Having QMK on a mouse is game-changer though; you can use one
       | button as a layer switcher, and expand the number of functions
       | each button performs. Being able to do a plain text paste in
       | macOS, or use the side buttons for page up/down _and_ home /end,
       | is really useful.
       | 
       | I highly recommend customizing your macro keys! Especially if you
       | use something like Emacs or work in the terminal a lot.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.keychron.com/pages/keychron-q10-customizable-
       | mec...
       | 
       | [2] https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q0-plus-qmk-
       | custo...
       | 
       | [3] https://ploopy.co/mouse/
        
       | sonicanatidae wrote:
       | Without Tenkey, they can keep it.
       | 
       | For those that don't need/use tenkey, it might be a cool toy.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-02-29 23:01 UTC)