[HN Gopher] Are We Wayland Yet?
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Are We Wayland Yet?
Author : skibz
Score : 35 points
Date : 2024-02-29 19:20 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (arewewaylandyet.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arewewaylandyet.com)
| declaredapple wrote:
| How is nvidia on wayland these days?
|
| Is running an nvidia gpu + gnome/kde + steam viable these days?
| Do most games work well?
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| gnome & kde have links in the Nvidia section at the bottom with
| good articles showing current status.
| bogwog wrote:
| I've been daily driving KDE/Wayland/Nvidia for about a year and
| it's perfectly usable. There are odd bugs every now and then,
| but nothing that's a show stopper.
| jtriangle wrote:
| KDE/Wayland/Nvidia->random bugs KDE/X11/Nvidia->No random
| bugs
|
| It is a show stopper when the alternative is more reliable.
| If I'm playing around, ie, not doing actual work, sure,
| wayland is cool, and fine. I get the draw. When I'm trying to
| get something done, I'd much rather use X11 for now.
| bogwog wrote:
| I said it was perfectly usable and I meant that. It's my
| full-time primary workstation, which I use for "actual
| work" every day.
|
| I could waste time elaborating on why that is, listing the
| odd bugs I mentioned, etc. But I suspect you're part of
| that crowd that froths at the mouth whenever the name
| "Wayland" is brought up no matter what. No other
| explanation explains why you'd leap from "odd bugs" to the
| inability to "get something done".
|
| Instead, I'll just leave my system build so anyone passing
| by can give it a go if they want to actually try it out:
|
| * Fedora Kinoite 39
|
| * Nvidia rtx 4090 (driver 545.29.06)
|
| * AMD Ryzen 9 7900
| saurik wrote:
| Why use something "perfectly usable" with "odd bugs" when you
| can use something that "actually works"?
| k8svet wrote:
| _You and everyone else in this thread know why_. The list
| of benefits from Wayland is touted repeatedly, in every
| single one of these threads, for years. We get it, you don
| 't care about mixed DPI, fractional scaling, HDR, non-
| tearing performance, VRR, a viable driver model for the
| 2020s, etc. You know, features that consumers expect.
|
| HN should ban these threads. They're g-d absolutely worse
| than the worst politics threads.
| fishpen0 wrote:
| For me its a jittery nightmare. I can't even play a video in
| vlc and still have firefox scroll smoothly on another monitor.
| I can turn my desktop experience into a slide show if I set the
| refresh rate on all three monitors to 144hz. Its silly I'm
| looking at choosing between having a good linux desktop
| experience _or_ being able to use CUDA for ML/AI stuff OR
| having to build a second computer so I can have a gaming
| computer on AMD _and_ a work node on NVIDIA
| Affric wrote:
| Below the performance you would like by a long way. Always
| improving.
| Spivak wrote:
| Really happy to see that WayPipe has moved from a cute demo to a
| real tool. It's an absolutely insane implementation and I love
| it. If X.org hadn't made it a first-class feature there's no way
| we would have invented it today.
| amelius wrote:
| Is anybody using it?
|
| There's this switch called WaylandEnable in my gdm3 config file,
| but I have to keep it false to stay out of trouble.
| kreck wrote:
| Can confirm that you may run into trouble e.g. when requiring
| screenshot capabilities (via scrot in our case) hence we had to
| set the WaylandEnable to false as well.
| Steltek wrote:
| Yes? All the time? "Stay out of trouble" is definitely not
| universal among Linux users. Not too long ago, the idea would
| have been kind of a fairy tale.
| skerit wrote:
| Been using it for 4 or 5 years now.
| creshal wrote:
| Can I use a no-bloat minimal window manager with Nvidia+AMD
| hybrid graphics yet? No? I'll stick to X11 then.
| bee_rider wrote:
| That sounds pretty uncommon.
| creshal wrote:
| If I wanted to win popularity contests I'd be using Windows.
| bee_rider wrote:
| Sure, but open source is made of people solving their
| problems and then sharing... it might be the case that
| yours is too unique.
| zh3 wrote:
| As a user of stripped-down XFCE and being a Wayland virgin,
| interested to know what problems there are with 'no-bloat' WMs
| on Wayland?
| creshal wrote:
| Apparently, Nvidia drivers? The page says the proprietary
| driver (which I need for reasonable performance and battery
| life) only works "with limitations" in Gnome and KDE, which
| are both too terrible to even consider using.
| jtriangle wrote:
| >are we wayland yet?
|
| No, No I am not, because things I care about are broken, and all
| of the supposed improvements wayland offers simply don't bother
| me. I've tried it, yes it feels a little snappier sometimes, but
| that's not a huge priority for me, personally.
|
| X11 is fine.
| irthomasthomas wrote:
| Wayland feels like a different operating system to Linux.
| Linuw?
|
| I can't do this in linuw:
| https://twitter.com/xundecidability/status/17632190171608678...
| SahAssar wrote:
| X11 was neither developed for or is a part of linux. Like I
| get the folks who consider the GNU userland tools to be a
| part of the "linux"-and-stuff-we-expect-to-be-bundled, but
| X11 is pretty separate.
|
| Either way screen recording is working in all major wayland
| WMs, so you can do that in "linuw" (or whatever you choose to
| call it)
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| Yeah, X11 really isn't a Linux thing at all; I think the
| association is just that Linux distros are the current
| hacker/poweruser OS of choice, for a lot of reasons
| including tools that let people do cool/powerful things
| with the system, and X11 is one of those tools (or the
| backing framework for them, at least).
|
| I don't know what screen recording has to do with anything?
| Like, yes Wayland also makes the computer vision half of
| that example harder (you can _do_ it in all major
| compositors, but details vary and GNOME is outright hostile
| to automating it) but Wayland doesn 't have an answer to
| xdotool which is arguably the bigger component. (I am aware
| of tools like ydotool and such, but AFAIK they're all
| significantly weaker; they can blindly inject emulated
| key/mouse events, but not, say, target specific windows)
| SahAssar wrote:
| Ah, I misunderstood which part was a problem on wayland.
| I haven't used either xdotool or ydotool much, and for
| automating stuff that is in a browser I have used the
| browser APIs instead.
| kelnos wrote:
| On the flip side, though, it does seem that Wayland has
| been developed with a sort of "Linux first" attitude. Not
| that it's impossible to run on other OSes, but there are
| bits and bobs here and there that show the Linux bias.
| stonogo wrote:
| X11 was not _initially_ developed for linux, but every
| major X11 platform -- Linux, OpenBSD, NetBSD, and FreeBSD
| -- uses Linux 's graphics stack to display X11 at this
| point. It's been that way since the KMS/DRM introduction. I
| would say that X11 is not separate at all, _today_ ,
| regardless of its origins.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| I don't really care about Wayland either, tbh I don't even
| know/care if I run it or X11 at the moment. But while X11 is
| still OK to use today, it will likely fall behind with it
| getting less maintenance and less testing by DEs.
| pygar wrote:
| Some point soon the major distros are going to make Wayland the
| default and the Linux desktop will be "mostly working if you
| stick to certain apps" for a little bit.
|
| There is no faster way to fix software problems then pushing it
| prod.
| JohnFen wrote:
| My situation is similar, except it's not Wayland bugs, it's
| functionality that X provides but Wayland doesn't.
| doener wrote:
| "Last updated: 31 October 2022"
| viraptor wrote:
| And the PRs are ignored unfortunately.
| sleepydog wrote:
| I switch to wayland to play steam games because there is less
| screen tearing than with X11. Otherwise, I'm still on xorg
| because I find little annoyances in the alternatives to my X11
| window manager of choice (dwm) and other little things that don't
| work well, like the Zoom desktop app being kind of wonky in sway.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| If you want to avoid having switch back and forth, you might
| try running things inside a wayland compositor under X11; for
| example, when I want to run waydroid I just run it in cage[0]
| in a window in my usual environment.
|
| [0] https://github.com/cage-kiosk/cage
| kelnos wrote:
| I don't think that will solve the problem; if the X server is
| tearing, apps running inside a Wayland compositor that's
| running in the X server will also tear.
| SomeoneFromCA wrote:
| Wayland is called Vyaleniy in Russian IT circles, which means
| "dried like beef jerky" and generally is disliked. 4chan calls it
| Gayland. Yeah, I know.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| To be fair, 4chan has derogatory names for everything.
| jcarrano wrote:
| I will sit down with XFCE and X11 until the sharp edges have been
| filed and I will switch when wayland is mature.
|
| I'm really thankful for the people sacrificing their time to test
| all this stuff and experiencing the bugs. I, as much as I like
| the GNU/Linux desktop, have already suffered through enough
| system changes and now I need my computer to get actual work
| done.
|
| I feel updates used to break thinks more often and now everything
| works mostly fine. I remember long ago the issues with
| Polkit/dbus policies, changes in xorg drivers, the introduction
| of pulseaudio and then pipewire, systemd, GRUB2, problems with
| removable drives (that are thankfully solved since long), etc.
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(page generated 2024-02-29 23:02 UTC)