[HN Gopher] Overwhelmed? Just Say 'No.'
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       Overwhelmed? Just Say 'No.'
        
       Author : fortran77
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2024-02-29 17:38 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
        
       | mahidhar wrote:
       | https://archive.is/X8ih6
        
       | t1c wrote:
       | Homeless? Just buy a house.
        
         | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
         | Indeed. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed right now with tasks
         | assigned to me by the government, but I don't think I can say
         | "no" to filing taxes and accounting paperwork, even when they
         | make it continuously more work to do so. So now I'm off to the
         | post office to have them verify my identity as part of a
         | mandatory process to access their online tax-payment system.
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | You can outsource this, you know.
        
             | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
             | I'm not convinced that doing so requires any less work, and
             | I especially don't think it would bypass identity
             | verification procedures. At least I hope that it cannot.
        
         | atum47 wrote:
         | I was thinking the same thing. How many times can I say no to a
         | difficult task before they let me go?
        
           | jjav wrote:
           | I used to never say no and I worked 18 hour days. Not great.
           | 
           | I started to say no but that does piss people off. Not so
           | great either.
           | 
           | Now, unless it's completely ridiculous request, I never say
           | no.
           | 
           | I say something like "Happy to help! Sounds like this might
           | take about an hour, I can pencil in that time for this
           | project next week Thursday afternoon, looking forward to it!"
           | 
           | If they insist it's for tomorrow I'll include in the
           | discussion whoever needed me today and let them know there is
           | a higher priority request. Let them fight it out. Turns out
           | people are quick to ask for my time ASAP, but if they learn
           | they have to confront someone else to negotiate for it, those
           | requests die down. Or if it truly was so urgent, no problem,
           | we'll rearrange.
        
             | throwway120385 wrote:
             | I get a lot of mileage out of "I'm happy to help but first
             | I need to let my manager know that you've asked me to do
             | this." Usually the request dies about 15 minutes after.
        
       | cchi_co wrote:
       | It's so hard to say 'no' for me. Fear of negative consequences
       | due to the way I was raised... And desire to please everyone
       | around me also because of the way I was raised
        
         | Loughla wrote:
         | Step 1 is identifying the problem, step 2 is trying to fix it.
         | 
         | I was an absolute door mat style of people pleaser. I just
         | started saying no to people about things that were low-risk,
         | and seeing what happened. I still get massive anxiety from it,
         | but I can say no like a champion now. Probably a little too
         | often, if I'm honest.
         | 
         | I did not seek out therapy, but probably should've.
         | 
         | If you're looking for advice - spend some time on this. My
         | experience is that people who have negative personality traits,
         | and try to blame the way they were raised, are not taken
         | serious as adults in the working world.
         | 
         | If you're not looking for advice - then just tell me to fuck
         | right off back to where I came from. No problem, either way.
        
         | McDyver wrote:
         | There's a book that addresses that, and might be helpful to
         | you: "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty" - Manuel J. Smith
        
       | philip1209 wrote:
       | Cal Newport talks about a similar concept - that work is assigned
       | through a _push_ system rather than a _pull_ system. When workers
       | are completely overwhelmed, they deny push requests - like  "can
       | you have this done by tomorrow". But, Cal hypothesizes that we
       | set our "completely overwhelmed" threshold too high - resulting
       | in us accepting pushes of additional work. He recommends lowering
       | that threshold further (and, ideally, switching to pull-based
       | work systems).
        
         | buffet_overflow wrote:
         | The analogy I used back when I managed a team was that our
         | workload was like a funnel. You need some amount of overhead to
         | balance the pressure and keep things flowing. If you put too
         | much in the funnel, things backup and spill. It's faster to
         | leave that little gap than it is to try to use the absolute
         | maximum volume.
        
       | angarg12 wrote:
       | Sadly I see people struggling with overwork, afraid to push back
       | way too often. What I learnt from my personal experience is this:
       | when you push back, people respect you more, not less.
       | 
       | I started my career in a small shop reporting to a toxic and
       | abusive manager. Due to a combination of factors (my own
       | upbringing, being a naive new grad, a bad economy) I didn't know
       | how to handle the situation so I just took it silently. Those
       | were some of the lowest points in my life. When I finally left, I
       | decided I wouldn't allow myself to fall in the same situation
       | again.
       | 
       | Then I realized something amazing. Contrary to my fears, when I
       | pushed back against unreasonable requests, for the most part
       | people respected me more rather than less. Of course there is
       | always people who retaliate, and the secret is you want to be far
       | away from those people.
       | 
       | This is my hypothesis of what is happening: most abusive managers
       | are low confidence cowards which use their formal authority to
       | bully others. Because they are cowards, if you stand up to them,
       | most often they will be afraid of losing face, and will choose to
       | bully someone weaker instead.
       | 
       | Of course it isn't easy to start doing this out of the blue. Once
       | you trained your manager to assume that you'll work 12 hour days
       | and always say yes, it's very hard to make them change their
       | mind, and you'll face retaliation. If you are in such a
       | situation, I don't have great advice, other than you should look
       | for another place to work, and start asserting yourself, even if
       | in small ways at first.
       | 
       | Unfortunately I know many people will ignore my advice. They'll
       | say I'm being idealistic, or that it worked only for me, or that
       | they can't afford to lose their job. But I hope that at least
       | some people will follow this advice and we'll give less food to
       | the toxic managers of the world.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | Amen. Establish your boundaries and enforce them hard. Be
         | intentional about building a foundation to derisk if enforcing
         | your boundaries causes a negative event.
        
         | PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote:
         | I think a more fair interpretation is the managers don't fully
         | realize just how busy you are and are following the path of
         | least resistance. When you're more clear in your communication,
         | it helps them understand.
         | 
         | I'm not saying there aren't assholes out there, but I would
         | chalk your experience up to mostly misunderstandings rather
         | than malice.
        
       | 331c8c71 wrote:
       | How do I say no to myself? Or at least how can I be realistic
       | with myself so that I can guard enough time/energy to do what I
       | actually say to myself I will do?
       | 
       | One manifestation of that problem is a quickly growing list of
       | "must read" or "interesting" papers. They are all filed nicely
       | but I managed to read only a few so far.
        
         | rufius wrote:
         | Two options from my own experience:
         | 
         | - Allocate a regular time to read the papers/articles. Accept
         | that the list may forever grow. Bonus points if you tag the
         | content going in so that you can prioritize a tag/topic to make
         | progress in a space you like.
         | 
         | - Expire out old content you aren't going to get to. I triage
         | my list periodically, sorted by oldest. If I don't remember
         | adding it or don't feel interested based on a skim of title and
         | intro, it gets deleted.
         | 
         | I pulled these from how I treat feature/bug backlogs at work.
         | If it's older than 90 days since any activity and a feature -
         | delete. If it's a bug, it gets archived (in case of repro steps
         | needed).
        
       | mc32 wrote:
       | Aha, the Nancy Reagan approach to complex problems reduced to a
       | simple word that makes total sense in a rational and cooperative
       | world --just not in the real world.
        
       | mawadev wrote:
       | Overwhelmed? Just stop paying your bills.
        
       | nisa wrote:
       | One thing I realized after some rather ugly burn out a few years
       | ago is that I mostly created my misery myself - there were
       | demands and questions if I can take on some work but no
       | psychopath managers, no deadlines that couldn't be moved.
       | 
       | I created most of the pressure myself - my biggest sin was
       | working more hours than being paid because I wanted the project
       | to succeed. It was never appreciated and only lead to be being
       | angrily called on Sunday if something was broken - something my
       | lazier 9 to 5 colleagues never experienced.
       | 
       | So I'd say instead of practicing no, first practice setting
       | boundaries and practice organizing yourself.
       | 
       | Additionally a perverted mechanism came into play because I cared
       | and wanted to improve the product at the time - the others kind
       | of said: do if you like but that came without any real support
       | and it lead to me being kind of laughed at as a hot air talker
       | just because I was the only one that wanted to improve things.
       | 
       | Looking back I should have quit way earlier and of all things I
       | shouldn't work overtime for free.
       | 
       | Having to say no could have been avoided if I had a good schedule
       | that I could have used to prioritize the orders and giving the
       | person making the demands an overview of my workload.
       | 
       | Watch out if there is some unhealthy inertia in your organization
       | and especially be careful doing important silent work. It won't
       | be thanked.
       | 
       | Either quit and look elsewhere or watch out that your workload is
       | fair and similar to your colleagues even if that means to not
       | solve that interesting problem because it's not your official
       | job.
        
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       (page generated 2024-02-29 23:01 UTC)