[HN Gopher] Hetzner switches to new billing model
___________________________________________________________________
Hetzner switches to new billing model
Author : throwaway220033
Score : 277 points
Date : 2024-02-29 10:18 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (docs.hetzner.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (docs.hetzner.com)
| lionkor wrote:
| For anyone else who may be confused - this is already the case in
| Cloud (obviously), but now will apply for Robot as well.
|
| > This structure will be similar to our Cloud billing.
|
| It says it here, but I glanced over it :)
| the_common_man wrote:
| What is the difference between cloud and robot?
| sunbum wrote:
| Cloud is VM's Robot is bare metal
| koolba wrote:
| s/'s/s,/
|
| Otherwise the VM possessive reads like:
| Cloud = VM's Robot = bare metal
| jeanlucas wrote:
| Thank you
| MonkeyClub wrote:
| Consequently cloud = bare metal; which agrees with the
| axiom that "it's not a cloud, it's just someone else's
| computer".
| randomdata wrote:
| Traditionally, cloud referred to an abstraction above
| "someone else's computer", keeping the specific details
| of those computers hidden from the user, allowing the
| operator to do things like swap out the hardware, move
| the data to another datacenter, etc. without the end user
| ever noticing.
|
| But tech people love to come up with new definitions for
| the same terms all the time, so anything goes.
| aaronmdjones wrote:
| Hetzner's cloud console (https://console.hetzner.cloud/) was
| introduced for their vServer migration (competing with the
| likes of Linode). Robot (https://robot.your-server.de/) was
| used for their vServers previously and is still used for
| their dedicated servers and domain names and such.
| pointlessone wrote:
| > We will always use the hourly price when it saves you money,
| meaning when you have used a product for less than a month, and
| the total hourly price is less than the monthly price.
|
| That's nice, I guess.
|
| > we have decided to no longer send invoices to all of our
| customers on the same day. Instead, we will spread them out
| throughout the month. You will always receive your invoice on the
| same day of the month. But this day will be different from
| customer to customer.
|
| It's not clear to me when the billing moth starts. Is it the day
| the invoice is sent or is it a regular calendar month? Either way
| it might be confusing.
| throwbadubadu wrote:
| You certainly will read that in the invoice?
| nilsb wrote:
| I'd hope that it's based on calendar months. Wouldn't invoices
| that span multiple years make things a lot more complicated in
| terms of accounting in general?
| everfrustrated wrote:
| According to the doc everyone will be getting a new random
| billing date to help rebalance customer support load over the
| month.
| flexd wrote:
| The email I got said this:
|
| >What is important after the changeover? * We want to be able
| to offer you even better customer service in the future. For
| that reason, we want to change the date of your invoice. This
| will make it easier for us to quickly answer questions about
| your invoices. Starting in April, your new permanent billing
| day will be the 12. of the month.
|
| I think they have just spread the billing day out across the
| month for all customers
| voytec wrote:
| If monthly price won't increase than this appears to be a good
| change. But their dedicated servers have an "installation fee",
| so it won't be cost-effective to rent them for short periods, and
| VMs are billed on hourly basis already, to my knowledge. Not sure
| which products this change covers.
| aaronmdjones wrote:
| Not all of their dedicated servers have a setup fee; for
| example, the lowest spec AX model does not.
|
| https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax/
| trollied wrote:
| Server auctions don't have a setup fee either.
| https://www.hetzner.com/sb/
| willcodeforfoo wrote:
| Last time I checked, Hetzner doesn't have any dedicated offerings
| in the US, only cloud, is this still the case?
| CoolCold wrote:
| Still the case, right
| shortlived wrote:
| Any recommendation for a provider with dedicated servers in
| the US?
|
| I'm with a provider now who is phasing them out.
| TheNorthman wrote:
| OVH have some in the US. I've only had good experiences
| with them. I like Server Hunter to get a general overview:
|
| https://www.serverhunter.com/#query=product_type%3Adedicate
| d...
| manishsharan wrote:
| There are several dedicated server providers in US but not
| much is known about their track review.
|
| OVH has a datacenter in Toronto which may close enough to
| the US for many people. They provide dedicated servers.
| heffer wrote:
| OVH's Toronto datacentre is not operational yet. But you
| can pre-order. It's going to be interesting to see what
| this does to pricing for the Toronto hosting and compute
| market, as that location has always been more expensive
| compared to other North American locations. Right now it
| looks like OVH will not be offering their lower tier
| offers out of the Toronto DC.
| betaby wrote:
| OVH operates data-center close to Montreal (BHS), 8ms
| latency to NYC. Also it's 100% green hydro electricity
| powered.
| StressedDev wrote:
| Hydro power is not green. The benefit are it's cheap (in
| terms of cost to produce) and produces no CO2 emissions.
| The downside is it makes it harder to fish to travel from
| the ocean to their spawning sites. Like all power
| sources, it has benefits and drawbacks and it absolutely
| impacts the environment.
| CoolCold wrote:
| No suggestions from my own experience. Probably Leaseweb or
| OVH worth checking.
| sethhochberg wrote:
| At a prior company I'd occasionally lease dedicated servers
| from INAP (now calling that part of their business
| HorizonIQ after bankruptcy and reorg) -
| https://www.horizoniq.com/services/compute/bare-metal/
|
| Their business was always a bit chaotic but the technical
| side of the organization was competent. We were colo'd in
| one of their datacenters so it was nice to be able to rent
| additional capacity in the same facility. Servers were
| manually provisioned, but manageable as you'd expect via
| online portal after provisioning was complete.
|
| So... not a glowing recommendation I guess, given their
| corporate instability? But a recommendation nonetheless,
| the corporate instability never impacted our technical
| operations and the product was good.
| isodev wrote:
| What does it mean to have a "dedicated" offering for the US?
| Hetzner lets you create servers in their US datacenter, isn't
| this enough?
| bravetraveler wrote:
| Dedicated servers, the things we used before cloud or vps
| roschdal wrote:
| Hetzner ist best, kein protest.
| Citizen_Lame wrote:
| Lol. For kebab production, maybe.
| mikkom wrote:
| I have a dedicated server in Hetzner and I don't understand what
| this means. How do they decide when the server is "used"? Based
| on CPU allocation? SSH sessions? HTTP traffic? Power?
|
| It's easy to shut down virtual servers and continue from the same
| position. It's not that easy to do the same for servers.
|
| The linked page is very unclear about this.
| boredpudding wrote:
| If you have a dedicated server, you'll just be paying the
| monthly price. It's always in use.
|
| If you decide to stop completely with the server halfway
| through the month, you'll pay for the hours.
|
| Of course, a shut down server that's yours is still yours and
| you'll be billed for it.
| dmw_ng wrote:
| I'm not so sure about this, their description specifically
| calls out one-time-only costs like domain registrations as
| being the only things excluded. Cautiously optimistic in
| addition to the recent reappearance of new GPU models being
| offered to existing customers, Hetzner may be prepping an
| hourly-billed bare metal GPU product at a great price
|
| Hetzner bare metal already deploys in a couple of minutes
| when renting existing hardware, and there is plenty of
| precedent for hourly-billed bare metal services around. I
| think they're intending to move all their bare metal over to
| hourly billing.
| sdwr wrote:
| On the cloud product listing they make it pretty clear that
| "in use" means "allocated" and not "consuming electricity".
| Pretty sure their fees are staying the same, and we are
| still paying for every hour a server exists.
| pretext-1 wrote:
| ,,Used" means as long as you rent them / as long as they're
| assigned to your account / as long as you have access.
| Dedicated servers are physical objects in the real world,
| contrary to virtual servers they don't stop ,,to exist" just
| because they're no longer yours.
|
| Previously you could only rent physical servers for an entire
| month. If you're doing this the price is still the same. But
| going forward it will be possible to rent for a portion of the
| month only (x amount of hours).
| c0balt wrote:
| If I understand correctly your cost will stay the same. The
| bill for march might be a bit different but the total cost
| should be identical. Their usage will also stay the same-ish
| with usage = allocation for CPUS, Ram and storage.
| tiffanyh wrote:
| > How do they decide when the server is "used"?
|
| If you turned on the server, it's being used.
| lopkeny12ko wrote:
| A server that is simply turned on does not necessarily mean
| it is "in use."
| corobo wrote:
| A server that can't be sold to someone else is in use
| michaelmior wrote:
| This is true, but it still may be how Hetzner decides
| usage. I'm not sure if this is the case, but it seems
| pretty reasonable when you're talking about bare metal.
| foofie wrote:
| I think you're getting lost in semantic games. Cloud
| providers sell you access to their computational resources.
| When you pay for a server, you're paying for the right to
| access that server and do what you wish to do with it. Much
| like when you rent a car, you still pay for it if you keep
| it parked.
| remram wrote:
| https://docs.hetzner.com/cloud/billing/faq/
|
| > Do you bill servers that are off?
|
| > Yes. Until you, the customer, delete your servers, we will
| bill you for them, regardless of their state.
| Vvector wrote:
| "If you use a product for the whole month, we will continue to
| invoice you for the same monthly amount as always."
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| Whatever that means, you will pay more.
| RobAley wrote:
| No, you'll max pay the same. May pay less.
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| Wonna bet?
| tpetry wrote:
| They've stated clearly that you pay the same. Its just
| calculating stuff differently that you can now remove a
| dedicated machine mid-month and get the remaining time's
| money back. Which wasnt the case until now.
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| Why would they do that and lose money? Apparently, they
| plan to charge more and push you to cloud services, which
| are more lucrative.
| sodality2 wrote:
| This is actually revenue-loss for them as canceling a
| dedicated server in the middle of the month will no
| longer result in a full month charge...
| StressedDev wrote:
| They are doing it to stay competitive. Remember, cloud
| computing is a highly competitive market and customers
| can and do switch providers.
| jeltz wrote:
| Sure, I could bet $1000.
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| Bet accepted, term: 1 year.
| devrand wrote:
| It seems pretty clear to me:
|
| > How precisely does Hetzner calculate the hourly billing?
|
| > The beginning of the hourly billing starts as soon as the
| product becomes available to you.
|
| So for a dedicated server you start paying once the server has
| been commissioned to you. You stop paying once you return it.
| nottorp wrote:
| So basically some large customers wanted to rent physical servers
| by the hour so now everyone gets to rent physical servers by the
| hour?
| lovegrenoble wrote:
| I've heard that Hetzner is a good provider, so I want to buy a
| cheap unmanaged VPS server in the USA. But can not find any
| mention about VPS. Any help, please?
|
| Just need to replace this one (the same bad story $$$ as Netlify
| recently): https://www.leaseweb.com/fr/cloud/virtual-server
| mglz wrote:
| Managed virtual servers are available here:
| https://www.hetzner.com/managed-server/
| edm0nd wrote:
| Just use DigitalOcean. Easy setup and very cheap VPS options.
| lovegrenoble wrote:
| Thank you, Sir.
| stefs wrote:
| that said, while digital ocean is great, as far as i know
| hetzner is somewhat cheaper. compare!
|
| at digital ocean, 12$: 2GB RAM, 1vCPU, 20GB SSD, 2TB
| transfer
|
| at hetzner, 10,50$: 8GB RAM, 2vCPU, 80GB SSD, 20TB transfer
| Citizen_Lame wrote:
| Yes, but Hetzner costumer service is from another planet.
| So in case of issues they won't be able to help, and you
| will have issues.
| radiator wrote:
| And in case of no issues, you save quite a lot of money.
| Radim wrote:
| Care to share why?
|
| I've been a Hetzner customer for nearly 10 years now. I
| just checked - first invoice in June 2014. And during
| that period, Hetzner's support - which I needed maybe 3
| times since things generally just work - has always been
| stellar.
|
| I've used Linode too, and their support was comparable
| (=also great). But Hetzner wins on pricing, hands down.
|
| I actually appreciate Hetzner hasn't join the BS
| enshittification gimmick train (yet). If that's your
| complaint.
| kosolam wrote:
| Hetzner has good support.
| huggingmouth wrote:
| I sttongly disagree based in my interaction with them.
| They were very rude. That said, their services are
| reasonably priced and they have been competent throughout
| my time with them.
|
| Hetzner would be far more appealing if they ever decide
| to muzzle their rebid support team.
| rglullis wrote:
| > They were very rude.
|
| No, they were German. Knowledgeable and efficient, but
| they won't coddle you or pretend that their life depend
| on your miser account. If you have a problem that can not
| be solved by their standard process, they will rather
| drop you than try to accommodate you.
| rnewme wrote:
| This was my experience too, both with my tiny personal
| account and my giant clients accounts
| asmor wrote:
| Their abuse team is rude. Their technical support is
| usually professional, and the one time I talked to their
| legal team they were superb.
| reddalo wrote:
| They're Germans, after all
| remram wrote:
| DigitalOcean has a long history of kicking out customers
| with no warning and no explanation.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11036554
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20064169
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29596138
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29600320
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38880713
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39127683
| icetngugzer wrote:
| Similar to the other commenters I much disagree - "but
| this ofc. rly depends on what you expect from them..."
|
| If the thing has power, network, working hardware and is
| able to "boot into there rescue-system" that is all they
| care about. And for that support has been stellar
| including preventive disk swaps, moving disk into new
| chassis and such with feedback and action within minutes
| basically 24/7.
|
| _But the software end is ofc. entirely on you_ , down to
| the BIOS where they roll you a network-KVM-Cart to the
| box for some hours after requesting it with a click. They
| wont fix your HTML errors, nor your php syntax errors, or
| explain how to setup SSL on your apache, nor will they
| help when you dont know how to operate ssh/putty ;) and
| if "with such an issue" one bothers the 24/7-datacenter
| guys (and not just "8-16/5 normal customer support") I
| may even understand that it seems a little rude ;-)
| MikusR wrote:
| DigitalOcean is at least 2-3 times more expensive with 10-3
| times less bandwidth
| AnonHP wrote:
| DigitalOcean, even before it had huge layoffs, blocked my new
| account and wouldn't allow me to pay. There was absolutely no
| support whatsoever for that. Just a template email and no
| other way to escalate or write to a human. I can only imagine
| how much worse it would be now with reduced staff.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| You're looking for the cloud servers:
| https://www.hetzner.com/cloud/
| lovegrenoble wrote:
| Sorry for my silliness, so 'cloud' is a new name for 'VPS'?
| CodesInChaos wrote:
| VPS are a part of the cloud offering now. Just like EC2 is
| part of AWS. Once change is that traditionally VPSs used
| local disk storage, while cloud servers use network block
| storage.
|
| Usually clouds offer additional higher level features, in
| addition to basic VMs, such as load balancers, object
| storage and managed containers. Though Hetzner currently
| offers very little in that regard.
| skrause wrote:
| > _Once change is that traditionally VPSs used local disk
| storage, while cloud servers use network block storage._
|
| Hetzner Cloud uses local NVMe SSD storage. They used to
| have Ceph based network block storage, but deprecated
| that around 2 years ago.
| FooBarWidget wrote:
| This rename has been a thing for 10 years now. All the VPS
| providers jumped on the cloud bandwagon and call themselves
| cloud.
| treffer wrote:
| Virtual private server == anything that is not a whole machine,
| usually referring to small VMs.
|
| In hetzner speak you want a "shared vCPU server".
|
| That's roughly what others offer as VPS, just more clearly
| spelled out (IMHO). You get fractional CPU usage that should be
| burstable and roundabout one core.
| lovegrenoble wrote:
| Thank you, finally I understood that.
| dakiol wrote:
| Be ready to handover a copy of your national ID/passport
| alwayslikethis wrote:
| Can you elaborate? I have a VPS and a storage box on Hetzner
| and I'm so far satisfied with it, minus the sometimes
| confusing interface between their different products.
| MikusR wrote:
| Because they are so cheap, they are often used by spammers
| or other shady entities. So occasionally they may ask for
| ID. For example, if you connect from one country, use an
| address from another country and use prepaid card from yet
| another country.
| e145bc455f1 wrote:
| They didn't even ask me for that, straight up banned my
| account.
| fortunateregard wrote:
| I've had a similar experience where my account was banned
| despite providing all the info they requested (including my
| passport).
|
| Hetzner was the only provider where I was banned despite
| providing everything I was asked for. I've deployed services
| on plenty of providers (AWS, GCP, Digital Ocean, Vultr, etc)
| without issue.
|
| Apparently, this has been an on-going struggle for them. A
| few weeks ago they were even called out on an episode of the
| syntaxFM podcast for this behavior after one of the hosts had
| his account banned [0].
|
| It's still a bit of a mystery to me honestly. Is their fraud
| detection so poor where they're forced to ban new sign-ups in
| this manner? How can Hetzner's competition tell that these
| accounts are legitimate (without ridiculous requirements such
| as passport) and Hetzner can't (even when provided with full
| home address, passport, etc)? I'm assuming Hetzner can't
| because they've seemingly developed a reputation for banning
| legitimate developers and the only reason I can think of
| where they'd be fine with that is if they actually have a
| very difficult time telling whether an account is legitimate
| or not.
|
| [0]: https://twitter.com/stolinski/status/1750226126499139665
| jamesblonde wrote:
| They are like Ryanair and Lidl brands - you get a
| reasonable product super-cheap. Don't argue about the terms
| and conditions, just be happy to do business with us. If
| you don't buy, somebody else after you will. This is not
| classic VC-funded IT. It's mass-market, low margin, low
| risk consumer products. It's not Enterprise IT.
| jeltz wrote:
| They have never asked me for any of my three accounts. And
| one I paid with credit card the two other with bank wire.
| MathiasPius wrote:
| This is actually great. I maintain a library[1] for interacting
| with the Robot interface using Rust, but testing is heavily gated
| because of the potential costs it might incur, which is why a lot
| of the purchasing/cancellation APIs haven't been thoroughly
| tested.
|
| With this billing, I'll be able to do thorough integration
| testing without breaking the bank.
|
| And of course with hourly billing, horizontal scaling becomes
| much more feasible.
|
| [1] https://github.com/MathiasPius/hrobot-rs
| joeig wrote:
| At the moment there is still a one-time order fee for dedicated
| servers and the docs don't clarify if it will remain.
| diggan wrote:
| > At the moment there is still a one-time order fee for
| dedicated servers
|
| For (some) dedicated servers, I think. Last time I checked
| the lowest tiered dedicated servers didn't have any setup
| fees. If it's not mentioned, assumed it'll remain.
| MathiasPius wrote:
| As diggan said, there's usually at least one of their
| dedicated server offerings for which setup fees are waived,
| so I figure my tests would use the API to find out which one
| and use it :)
| jupp0r wrote:
| Have you reached out to Hetzner? Feels like they should waive
| those bills in exchange for the free dev work you do for them.
| MathiasPius wrote:
| I haven't actually. I believe they do offer modest amounts of
| credit for creating useful libraries, documentation and such
| targeting their platform, but I never really looked into it.
| sonicanatidae wrote:
| A company, acting reasonably?
|
| Are you new to Earth?
| severino wrote:
| It would be nice if cloud offerings like Hetzner would allow one
| to set the contract duration and pay in advance, for example, one
| year. And once that year passes, you could tell them to extend it
| for another year, or do nothing and get your server deleted. This
| way you have a control over your spending and avoid surprises. I
| guess some providers (OVH?) allow you to do that, but of course
| it requires that all costs be fixed and have no "extras" for
| bandwidth consumption or things like that.
| janus24 wrote:
| Scalingo (a European PaaS) allows you to do this by buying
| credit, a simple solution. I wonder why other providers don't
| offer this.
| V__ wrote:
| You can buy credits using a bank transfer [1]. You can also set
| E-Mail alerts in case your monthly invoice is higher then
| expected (more traffic etc.) [2]. However, there is no auto-
| delete as far as I can tell.
|
| [1] https://docs.hetzner.com/accounts-panel/accounts/payment-
| faq... [2] https://docs.hetzner.com/cloud/billing/faq/#how-do-
| i-keep-my...
| severino wrote:
| Didn't know you could buy credits, but well, for me the key
| is that no debt is generated when your credit goes to zero.
| In this case, if you exhaust your credit but your server
| keeps running, Hetzner will not stop it and will send you the
| bill next month. Yes, you may have received an email warning
| but it does not give the same peace of mind.
| AnonHP wrote:
| I've been waiting for Hetzner to allow adding credits into
| one's account using credit cards or debit cards (or other
| modes like PayPal). Being outside Germany (and the EU), a
| bank transfer is not possible or is difficult and
| prohibitively expensive.
|
| Hetzner also didn't seem to support credits across all its
| services when I checked a few years ago.
| wyan wrote:
| You can use a bank like Wise which lets you have accounts
| in many currencies for such bank transfers. Fees between
| their accounts are quite competitive (I used them many
| times in the past).
| groestl wrote:
| > and avoid surprises
|
| I think for most people and organizations, auto-deletion of a
| server _is_ the surprise ;)
| iforgotpassword wrote:
| At least with the dedicated servers there are no surprises.
| Monthly cost is fixed, if you exceed the bandwidth limit you'll
| be throttled. Maybe their cloud offerings offer the same?
| severino wrote:
| From what I can see in their webpage, they charge something
| like 1 eur for every extra TB but apparently there's no way
| to set a limit (so you can be protected in the event of a
| DDoS), only an alert.
| Saris wrote:
| As far as I known there are no surprises on Hetzner, they're a
| solid company, not one of the shady ones that bill on usage
| without limits.
| severino wrote:
| I agree it's not as bad as other companies (like the other
| day Netlify story) but Hetzner doesn't allow you to set
| limits either, so in theory you can still be charged without
| knowing how much it'll be in advance. You can also leave
| something on while thinking it's off and, yes, it's your
| fault too, but it wouldn't happen if it just consumed your
| credits and no more.
| ta8903 wrote:
| When are they allowing sign ups for third world countries?
| tomas789 wrote:
| There is no such thing as third world country anymore. That is
| a relic or yesteryear. [1]
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/hVimVzgtD6w?si=g0aCYsjo15RAyx-e
| slig wrote:
| Yes, signed up from a 3rd World Country late last year.
| thijsvandien wrote:
| Or any country for that matter? I was rejected from right next
| door (NL).
| reddalo wrote:
| It's very strange that they rejected your account from
| another EU country. Are you sure you created your account
| with real data?
| thijsvandien wrote:
| One doesn't accidentally make things up, and for invoices
| to be booked, my accountant wouldn't have it any other way.
| gowthamgts12 wrote:
| I signed up after lot of failed attempts. I think now they have
| fixed their verification process. Please give it a try
| sixhobbits wrote:
| This overall sounds like it makes sense and brings their billing
| into line with other providers.
|
| But it's super confusingly written and presented. Why is this an
| essay with CAPITAL LETTERS to try to simplify things. It looks
| like they put in a ton of effort to make sure people aren't
| confused, but this doesn't seem like the thing to give people to
| ensure that they aren't confused.
| iforgotpassword wrote:
| Huh, to me it feels they just tried to emphasize the most
| important things, like your bill never being higher than the
| monthly price would be. Like, the opposite of what tech
| companies usually do.
| boplicity wrote:
| I don't seem capable of actually setting up an account with
| Heztner and logging in. Their security is so tight, it seems to
| constantly lock me out. What if I were an actual customer? Yikes.
|
| Does anyone else have this issue?
| david_allison wrote:
| Yep:
|
| Dear Mr David Allison
|
| After reviewing your updated customer information, we have
| decided to deactivate your account because of some concerns we
| have regarding this information. Therefore, we have cancelled
| all your existing products and orders with us.
|
| Best regards
|
| Your Hetzner Online Team
| slig wrote:
| That's terrifying. Did they at least give you time to backup
| your data?
| amar0c wrote:
| Please note that Hetzner does this only in couple cases: a)
| fake account data ; b) previous strikes (unpaid invoices,
| abuse etc..) with them ; c) in some cases customer is from
| country they do not do business with. I bet gazzilion OP
| above is within a or b
| thijsvandien wrote:
| A) No B) No C) No
| e145bc455f1 wrote:
| I got the same thing. My account was neither fake or had
| any previous strikes, it was a new account.
| Joe_Cool wrote:
| Their ToS also classifies Crypto-Mining, farming or
| plotting (whatever that is) as grounds for cancellation.
|
| Also everything forbidden by German law results in a
| cancellation. So if you would have for example posted
| something before 2017 about a state leader that might
| seem like an insult your server might be gone. (
| https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-
| monitor/2017-07-26/ger... )
|
| https://cdn.hetzner.com/assets/Uploads/downloads/AGB-
| en.pdf Section 8.3
| Etherlord87 wrote:
| d) the customer is black, romanian or a jew
|
| I'm awaiting donwvotes, but honestly, if they don't give
| you a reason, everything can be one, and refusing a
| service on arbitrary grounds seems illegal to me :D
| reddalo wrote:
| It's a private service; private companies can choose
| whoever they want to do business with. They're not a
| public service.
| Etherlord87 wrote:
| Are you sure about that? I know of a precedent in Poland,
| where a company refused to service (print some kind of
| invitation cards) some LGBT people, and was punished for
| it.
|
| I imagine the laws in Germany are similar to the laws in
| Poland in that regard, both countries being in the
| European Union.
|
| In USA, I really doubt any company could refuse to serve
| black people. Or women.
|
| I wonder if the downvoters of my previous message share
| your (I'd say quite wrong) opinion or there's another
| reason for the downvotes - I'm up for a discussion!
| reddalo wrote:
| I don't know about the downvotes, and I'm not a lawyer so
| take this with a grain of salt, but there's a difference
| between a service to the public (e.g. a cafe or a
| restaurant) and a service such as Hetzner.
| david_allison wrote:
| I was evaluating them at the time. No data loss
| MyFirstSass wrote:
| What? That sounds extremely unacceptable.
|
| Can we get some context please, there must be a reason.
|
| Were you able to backup first?
| david_allison wrote:
| I created an account to evaluate them on Sun, 18 Jun 2023,
| 13:25 UTC. I verified my account on Sun, 18 Jun 2023,
| 13:29.
|
| I received the above email entitled 'Rejection of Your
| account XXXXX' on Mon, 19 Jun 2023, 09:15.
|
| I didn't follow up further. No backups required as I hadn't
| purchased anything
| thijsvandien wrote:
| Literally this. Their staff won't provide any details, nor
| even a route towards a solution. When I asked what they
| suggest doing in this situation, they simply stopped
| responding.
| kobalsky wrote:
| I had the inverse experience.
|
| I setup 5 x $220/month servers and I wanted to make sure my
| payment method worked, contacted support a couple of times,
| wanted to make a prepayment or something.
|
| No dice, they didn't want to take my money until the billing
| period closed, luckily everything worked fine.
|
| It wasn't their cloud offering though, it was for the dedicated
| servers (Hetzner Robot), I don't know if that makes a
| difference.
| EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
| I didn't ask to "take my money", just gave it to them
| forcibly by wire transfer, it showed up in my account all
| right.
| thenickdude wrote:
| Yup, I bought a dedicated server because I needed a CPU with
| AVX2 and VT-x, and it went poof some days later.
|
| They didn't even do me the courtesy of emailing me to tell me
| about it, I had to ask support:
|
| > > When I try to log in to my account it tells me that my
| credentials are invalid, and when I use forgot password it
| tells me that my account is disabled?
|
| >We recently did some routine reviews of our customer accounts.
| We noticed some suspicious information in your account.
|
| >We have some concerns regarding this information and we have
| decided to close your account.
|
| >We do not share details about why certain accounts appear
| suspicious. Publishing this information would make it easier
| for people to create fake accounts and abuse our services.
|
| I even went through their live-video face verification and
| passport scan and they didn't budge on this.
| tiffanyh wrote:
| Will this cost more for existing customers?
|
| What they should have made more clear is, for existing customers
| - will this be cost neutral or cost more.
|
| Ideally, this is cost neutral for existing customer and gives the
| flexibility of paying partial month for partial usage.
| kobalsky wrote:
| the post says: "Just to make it clear, the montly price you
| will pay will NOT change, even if you see some short-term
| changes in monthly totals on your invoices during the
| transition period."
| naiv wrote:
| This is for existing customers. If they offer servers for an
| hourly rate I would expect prices to up with a priced in
| setup fee
| unixhero wrote:
| I just started a hosting gig myself. I got tired of the costs.
| BilalBudhani wrote:
| Hetzner is one of those "just take my money" services, so more
| power to them.
|
| Besides, for some reason I always thought they charge hourly but
| show pricing in monthly format for easier pricing.
| bcye wrote:
| That was only for cloud products until now I think
| reddalo wrote:
| Way better than DigitalOcean, I hope they keep being that way
| waldrews wrote:
| What other services fall into the "just take my money"
| category? I fully agree, Hetzner is a good deal.
| lannisterstark wrote:
| >just take my money
|
| and run MITM services*, yes.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37961166
| DonnyV wrote:
| Does anyone know if Hetzner is looking to open up a datacenter in
| Australia or in Southeast Asia?
| rmbyrro wrote:
| South America would be great as well
| diggan wrote:
| South Africa sounds like a good compromise between Australia
| and South America :)
|
| Wonder what's the shortest possible latency between those
| points?
|
| Alternative, more interesting question: Assuming Hetzner have
| a data center in Germany and one in Finland, where should
| their next data center be in order to reduce latency as much
| as possible, in the most countries?
| Tomte wrote:
| They also have one in the US.
|
| So probably East Asia?
| yaseer wrote:
| If anybody has migrated from AWS to Hetzner what was your
| experience? What kind of cost savings did you see?
|
| I know it's not a like-for-like comparison, I am particularly
| curious about the price differentials though, AWS is often a
| premium.
| diggan wrote:
| I helped some smaller companies move from AWS EC2 to Hetzner
| dedicated servers. One example: Biggest cost saving was in the
| bandwidth bills. They also realized they don't really need to
| be able to scale up/down in minutes or having 6 instances
| online, but having two beefy machines lead to better
| performance, less latency and cheaper monthly bills.
|
| Originally they just went with AWS because the developer who
| did infrastructure stuff was most (only?) used to it and had
| some certification or similar, without really thinking about
| why AWS. Reached out to me when they started to wonder why
| things were so expensive for what they were doing.
| DonnyV wrote:
| Why isn't their US Data Centers not listed in the table of Data
| Centers they run? https://docs.hetzner.com/general/others/data-
| centers-and-con...
| diggan wrote:
| Maybe they don't operate those data centers themselves?
| Outsourced perhaps.
|
| > Which data centers does _Hetzner_ operate?
| ffsm8 wrote:
| Yes, they state as much when you order anything and talked
| about it at length when they introduced the US offering.
|
| They're shipping their specialized server systems to select
| providers for housing, essentially. Most maintenance is done
| remotely... aside from replacing faulty hardware etc
| JonathonW wrote:
| Hetzner's US cloud zones are colocated in someone else's
| facility (AFAICT they don't specify where):
| https://docs.hetzner.com/cloud/general/locations/#are-the-
| se...
| CamelCaseName wrote:
| I've only ever heard fantastic things about Hetzner.
|
| I'm shocked PE hasn't bought them yet and raised prices.
| thijsvandien wrote:
| So had I, until I actually tried to sign up. Have a look at the
| way they treat you when they have (unfounded) suspicions. It's
| beyond ridiculous.
| rsync wrote:
| So many problems just disappear when your prices are
| (relatively) expensive...
| AnonHP wrote:
| Maybe. But price is still one of the larger concerns for
| many people. When I checked this a couple of years ago, it
| seemed like Hetzner's Storage Box (the one sorta competes
| with your rsync.net) had a much lower price, a much larger
| capacity per dollar/euro and more storage tiers.
| AnonHP wrote:
| They ask for a government ID in some cases. I was able to
| provide one with some details masked, and they wanted the
| name on my account to match the name on the government ID.
| This is a commercial transaction, not Facebook. So I was
| kinda ok with that. But it is weird and ridiculous.
| thijsvandien wrote:
| Whether to provide proof is at least a choice you get to
| make, but in my case even that wasn't on the (empty) table.
| cyberpunk wrote:
| Meh, ymmv. I migrated a bunch of stuff from OVH->Hetzner a few
| years ago and the support experience was absolutely, insanely,
| beyond-belief bad.
|
| P1 call having to explain "what's an ip address" to their
| 'engineers'.
|
| About 6 hours after we moved prod over, they brought down my
| EIPs for like 4 hours because of a route they didn't understand
| and flagged as spam, and in the end we rolled back the
| migration and cancelled the contracts.
|
| Bummer for them; we ended up scaling out to several hundred
| thousand euro a year in OVH, which has been absolutely fucking
| exemplar.
|
| So while some people really do rave about them, I was so
| annoyed by that experience that I will almost certainly never
| use them again.
|
| Being a German myself, I'm 90% sure it's because the support is
| based in Germany, where technology goes to die.
| pinkgolem wrote:
| What are EIPs?
|
| If you are referring to the eth stuff, everything to do with
| crypto is banned on hetzner
| steezeburger wrote:
| I assume they're talking about elastic IPs and not Ethereum
| Improvement Proposals
| gowthamgts12 wrote:
| Elastic IPs i believe - you can attach/detach an IP to a
| server instead of having a new IP everytime
| ayi wrote:
| If we can get over the fact that they ban accounts out of
| nowhere, that can be good news. But not for me. Because I
| couldn't even sign up.
| pquki4 wrote:
| Same here. I provided an authentic US drivers license for their
| verification (which I normally wouldn't do) yet that didn't
| pass the verification, no reason given. Well, if they don't my
| money, fine, I'll do it elsewhere.
| degun wrote:
| What a beautiful company.
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