[HN Gopher] Consider the Pawpaw
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       Consider the Pawpaw
        
       Author : PaulHoule
       Score  : 68 points
       Date   : 2024-02-27 13:11 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (beltmag.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (beltmag.com)
        
       | taway789aaa6 wrote:
       | I am the proud gardener of seven paw paw trees. I've been tending
       | them for a little more than three years now and am very VERY
       | excited for when (if ever) they produce fruit! I wish there were
       | more places to find other varieties (e.g. not Asimona Triloba)
       | that might help with pollination.
        
         | gleapsite2 wrote:
         | My understanding (and you probably already know) is that
         | PawPaws are pollinated by flies (and not bees).
         | 
         | At a medieval/fantasy campground I've planted thousands of
         | trees at, we located the pawpaw trees near the bathrooms and
         | trash cans. Both of which attract flies.
         | 
         | Perhaps when (or shortly before) the pawpaws are in bloom, you
         | dump some charnel or other biowaste near the trees to help
         | attract flies?
        
           | zikduruqe wrote:
           | We used to hang road kill up in our pawpaw trees to get the
           | flies to come to them.
        
         | adregan wrote:
         | Some people drape bacon on the limbs to attract flies to
         | pollinate the pawpaws!
         | 
         | You can also try hand pollinating with a soft brush if you're
         | not interested in adorning the boughs with rotting meat.
        
       | jmbwell wrote:
       | Or the prickly pear
       | 
       | If you prick a raw paw, next time beware!
       | 
       | Don't pick a prickly pear by the paw, when you pick a pear try to
       | use the claw!
       | 
       | But you don't need to use the paw when you pick a pear of the big
       | pawpaw
       | 
       | Have I given you a clue?
        
         | jqgatsby wrote:
         | Golly! Thanks, Baloo!
        
         | kstrauser wrote:
         | I heard that instantly when I saw "pawpaw".
        
         | pbhjpbhj wrote:
         | Do paw-paw give bears/non-human mammals any health problems
         | (see Parkinson's discussion elsewhere)?
         | 
         | (I see down thread that the paw-paw of Disney's Jungle Book
         | would not be the paw-paw discussed here, I think? Baloo was a
         | Sloth Bear, I think and I don't think they have those in N.
         | America??)
        
           | Asraelite wrote:
           | The Jungle Book is set in India, so you would expect it to be
           | a papaya but that doesn't really make sense either. This page
           | talks about it: http://expatpawpaw.blogspot.com/2016/02/that-
           | song-about-pawp...
           | 
           | Honestly I'm kinda shocked that an article all about
           | explaining what a pawpaw is didn't lead with the fact that
           | the same word can refer to two completely different fruits.
        
         | ubj wrote:
         | Glad someone brought up this reference :) This is what I
         | thought of too.
         | 
         | (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5dhSdnDb3tk&t=1m14s)
        
       | Footkerchief wrote:
       | Missing mention of pawpaw's annonacin content, which causes
       | Parkinsonism.
       | 
       | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22130466/
       | 
       | "Pawpaw fruit contains a high concentration of annonacin, which
       | is toxic to cortical neurons."
       | 
       | https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medicine/herbs...
       | 
       | "Pawpaw fruit contains high concentrations of annonacin, which is
       | toxic to nerve cells. In addition there have been case reports of
       | possibly related nerve toxicity. Therefore, chronic use should be
       | avoided."
        
         | 6177c40f wrote:
         | Probably not a huge issue as long as you only eat it every so
         | often. But I wonder about the possibility of producing
         | varieties of pawpaw (or soursop or other related Annonas) that
         | don't produce annonacin. Probably could be done with genetic
         | engineering, or much more slowly with selective breeding.
         | 
         | Given that there are places where people consume Annonas very
         | often, and that this may lead to alarmingly high rates of
         | parkinsonism [1], this could be considered an effective public
         | health intervention.
         | 
         | [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10440304/
        
           | Footkerchief wrote:
           | The evidence we have for safety of low-level consumption
           | doesn't look great.
           | 
           | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7691614/
           | 
           | "The paucity of adequate studies, particularly related to
           | long-term use of A. muricata supplements, currently does not
           | allow the establishment of a safe intake level."
           | 
           | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10092620/
           | 
           | "Cognitive performance assessed with the MDRS worsens above a
           | cumulative consumption threshold of 0.2 fruit-years of
           | Annonaceae fruit/juice (ie, one fruit every 5 days for 1
           | year) or with consumption of any quantity of Annonaceae
           | herbal tea."
        
             | throwawaygal7 wrote:
             | This study is of a small island population.
        
             | jonah wrote:
             | The bark and leaves are the primary sources of
             | benzyltetrahydroisoquinolines.
        
             | margalabargala wrote:
             | "one fruit every 5 days for 1 year" is far above what I
             | would consider occasional consumption.
             | 
             | Pawpaws are not in season for very long, and do not keep
             | well. Unless you are canning or otherwise preserving them,
             | a dozen per year is probably a high estimate for people who
             | live in areas where they grow.
             | 
             | Relatives such as the soursop are available year-round in
             | tropical areas, but if you limit your intake to the pawpaw
             | only, eating a handful when they are ripe each year
             | probably won't hurt you.
             | 
             | I lived in Maryland near a forest with a large number of
             | wild pawpaw trees that produced an enormous amount of
             | fruit, and was very into foraging as a hobby, and I don't
             | think I ever ate more than six or seven in a single season.
        
           | jonah wrote:
           | I don't know about Parkinson's, but acetogenins[1] work by
           | down regulating ATP production in mitochondria. This
           | mechanism has been studied for potential applications from
           | cancer treatment to pesticides.[2]
           | 
           | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetogenin
           | 
           | [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_L._McLaughlin &c.
        
         | intuitionist wrote:
         | Fortunately you've gotta work pretty hard for chronic use,
         | since it's only available for a couple months out of the year.
         | This is definitely a concern if they ever do develop a pawpaw
         | industry, though.
        
           | ActionHank wrote:
           | This depends on where you live.
           | 
           | I've lived in a country where it was available year round,
           | grew like a weed in gardens, and was eaten on the regular by
           | many people I know.
        
             | jonah wrote:
             | The fruit being discussed is endemic to a portion of the
             | southeast United States.
             | 
             | https://www.fs.usda.gov/nrs/atlas/tree/v3/367
             | 
             | You may be thinking of a relative like the soursop which
             | does have a broader range.
        
               | zztop44 wrote:
               | The person you're replying to probably assumed (as I did)
               | that the article was about papaya, which is called pawpaw
               | in some parts of the world. They will probably be
               | relieved (as am I) to find out it's about an unrelated
               | fruit.
        
               | ActionHank wrote:
               | You're on the money there, phew.
        
         | bbatha wrote:
         | In addition to what other commenters have noted about
         | difficulty eating enough quantity, this is not a commercial
         | fruit and thus no standards for what you'll get. There are a
         | variety of on-going breeding programs for commercial pawpaws.
         | This is just one more item on the checklist to successfully
         | selectively breed out. If you see pawpaws in the supermarket
         | its unlikely current studies will apply to it. Breeders
         | understanding how to breed for and against the annonacin
         | content is actually very high on their list of priorities, not
         | for eating, but the high annonacin makes pawpaws an excellent
         | deer and mosquito repellent, and is being studied as a source
         | for chemo-therapy and other drugs.
         | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18598079/ I suspect these will
         | be the first commercial use cases for the pawpaw as they use
         | the trees bark, leaves, and skins of the fruit and not the
         | fragile flesh.
        
       | FumblingBear wrote:
       | I live in a region that apparently has Pawpaw trees that grow
       | natively and until last year had never even heard of the fruit!
       | 
       | This year I'm hoping to try one of these for the first time :)
       | 
       | I figure it's a pretty unique experience and helps me appreciate
       | some of the local agriculture that's hard to find elsewhere.
        
       | ronniefalcon wrote:
       | Very nice when they are good but in my experience, somewhat like
       | an avocado, they tend to turn extremely quickly and once they are
       | on the way out, they are _not good_
        
         | jonah wrote:
         | For others, they're often described as tasting like banana
         | custard or mango. Rich and creamy flesh with favs bean sized
         | black seeds.
        
       | sjsanc wrote:
       | In South Africa we refer to the papaya as pawpaw, I'm in England
       | now, and here they just say papaya.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaya. This article mentions
       | papaya as a separate fruit. Is there something missing?
        
         | lidavidm wrote:
         | Well, yes: pawpaw is a different fruit in the US Midwest, and
         | that's what the article is about.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimina_triloba
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Growing up in US midwest we learned the folk song with the
           | line: "Way down yonder in the paw paw patch...".
        
           | wil421 wrote:
           | They grow in the South and all the way to the Atlantic.
           | Including small parts of the North Florida panhandle.
        
         | twright wrote:
         | Carica papaya versus Asimina triloba
        
         | zdragnar wrote:
         | The article covers it rather well, if you get far enough in, I
         | thought.
         | 
         | This pawpaw is a fruit native to North America, and the name
         | sharing is just coincidence. Here's the Wikipedia page for it:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimina_triloba
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Why don 't grocery stores stock pawpaw fruit?_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38851025 - Jan 2024 (151
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Why Is the Most American Fruit So Hard to Buy?_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33139936 - Oct 2022 (18
       | comments)
        
       | dvh wrote:
       | When I've tried to search what does pawpaw tastes like the two
       | most specific descriptions I could find was "mild pawpaw taste"
       | and "not banana".
        
         | searine wrote:
         | A ripe pawpaw is like a banana/mango flavor. Bitter and tough
         | before ripe, but very sweet and soft when fully ripe with
         | almost no bitter or sour. Slightly stringy like a squash.
        
         | jonah wrote:
         | Banana custard but slightly more strongly flavored; creamy,
         | white to yellow flesh.
        
         | pvaldes wrote:
         | > When I've tried to search what does pawpaw tastes like the
         | two most specific descriptions I could find was "mild pawpaw
         | taste" and "not banana".
         | 
         | The taste is very variable in different cultivars of this
         | fruit. Some wild are said to be awful, but in the edible ones
         | there are basically two groups: "plain banana" and "complex
         | tropical mix".
         | 
         | "not banana" means that the flavor is a mix of tropical fruits.
         | More acidic and with complex overtones that can be described as
         | pineapple, mango, or bubblegum
        
         | modeless wrote:
         | My favorite niche YouTube channel has an episode on pawpaws:
         | https://youtu.be/zUy2O3qDT8I?si=HvvH2SZsDy4Yc88e
         | 
         | He describes it "like if you took soursop, mango, and banana
         | and blended it into a smoothie". Maybe not helpful if you
         | haven't had soursop.
        
         | ars wrote:
         | It tastes like a mix of an apple and a banana.
        
       | tomoyoirl wrote:
       | David Foster Wallace it ain't.
       | 
       | https://www.columbia.edu/~col8/lobsterarticle.pdf
        
         | sdwr wrote:
         | What a terrible imitation! Uses the format of that classic, but
         | completely butchers it.
         | 
         | DFW did a dark reflection of a travel piece. His anti-social,
         | elitist, nihilistic tone was expertly woven in, and creates
         | tension between the subject and author.
         | 
         | This just... is travel journalism, but using that one's
         | structure? A mirror of a mirror, all meaning lost.
        
       | jonah wrote:
       | If you're in a region where they grow - temperate but with
       | sufficient overwinter chill - you could consider planting some.
       | They're nice looking trees with large leaves, the fruit is tasty,
       | zebra swallowtail butterfly caterpillars feed off of the leaves,
       | and you're helping preserve an endemic American fruit tree.
       | 
       | My Dad's little one-man nursery is a good source of trees. ;)
       | 
       | https://www.blossomnursery.com/
       | 
       | (Some of you may also appreciate the style of his website as
       | reminiscent of the "old web".)
       | 
       | [Edit: grammar.]
        
         | wil421 wrote:
         | I haven't been able to find them for a few years now. If I can
         | I will order some.
        
         | cooper_ganglia wrote:
         | That website is probably older than I am. It's beautiful! I
         | wish more people had personal websites that looked fun and
         | customized like that!
        
         | whyenot wrote:
         | Oh wow, thank you sharing your dad's nursery. I am going to
         | purchase some germinated seeds from him for the university
         | greenhouse collection that I manage.
        
       | marl0 wrote:
       | As a cat dad I consider myself a pawpaw.
        
       | tedmcory77 wrote:
       | Anyone know of folks being able to grow any varieties in Manatee
       | County Florida? I've spent a bit of time looking for varieties
       | but everyone seems to indicate it's too hot.
        
       | atebyagrue wrote:
       | I've been harvesting these in the wild for years. They are pretty
       | difficult to describe in flavor (banana/mango/tropical being a
       | good approximation), as the flavor isn't consistent even between
       | close patches. They have about a 3 week ripe window mid-to-end
       | August (depending on the shade) in my area when they should be
       | harvested. I typically just push on the slender tree & if any
       | fall; they're ripe. It's best to harvest them, halve them, scoop
       | them into a freezer bag, and use when desired. It's the only way
       | I've found to be able to preserve them & the delicate flavor some
       | of them tend to have.
        
         | 6B wrote:
         | I'm central Ohio and only heard of pawpaw fruit a couple times
         | as a tiny child. Totally forgot they existed. Most of Dad's
         | foraging was a different season (morels). How would one go
         | about trying to find (relatively) local to try pawpaw when
         | they're in season?
        
       | emursebrian wrote:
       | They're native here. I've been trying to get some trees going for
       | a few years. So far, my trees have been slow to grow and I've
       | lost most of what I planted.
       | 
       | I've planted a half dozen clones from a few different trees back
       | in 2021, and one or two of those has survived. Last year, I
       | planted a few seedlings.
       | 
       | They need shade when they're young. Some say they're good after
       | two years and some say you need to let them get to be a certain
       | size before you give them full sun.
       | 
       | I changed from wire tomato cages and old sheets to tree wraps and
       | stakes and the trees seem to have fared fine.
        
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