[HN Gopher] So Google's Gemini Doesn't Like Python Programming a...
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So Google's Gemini Doesn't Like Python Programming and Sanskrit?
Author : shantnutiwari
Score : 64 points
Date : 2024-02-25 21:09 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (new.pythonforengineers.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (new.pythonforengineers.com)
| necovek wrote:
| Yeah, chatbots are still dumb, and "safeguards" even more so.
|
| I am still surprised you are not familiar with @lru_cache when
| you want to write about decorators in Python.
| rational_indian wrote:
| I know decorators can be used to auto-memoise function
| arguments but I've never heard of @lru_cache for python.
| amingilani wrote:
| The modern way is to use @cache which is just
| lru_cache(maxsize=None).
| curiousgal wrote:
| It still doesn't sit right with me that they still don't
| offer an option to enable deep copying the results. Using it
| with a function that returns a mutable object means that the
| "cached" value can actually be modified.
| geysersam wrote:
| That depends on the semantics. If the function returns the
| Person object with a particular name (obtained from an
| expensive dB query) then you want the mutated Person
| returned, not the now stale value that was returned on the
| previous call to the function.
| epwr wrote:
| lru_cache has the benefit of being explicit about the
| replacement policy. So I find it more appropriate in cases
| where I want a size limit in the cache which, for me, is
| almost always.
|
| I'm not sure use cases you see caches in, but any long
| running process should likely have a size limit on the cache.
| DrNosferatu wrote:
| Age checks should be sufficient.
|
| When the internet became popular in the 90s, no one censored it.
| MekaiGS wrote:
| This is especially true when I am actually a paying customer
| for the product. May be I should be given the controls to
| filter based on my own tolerance.
| tremon wrote:
| In the 90s, internet became popular with techies. It was built
| by technical people, mostly for technical people. Then, in the
| early 2000s, it grew to become a commerce platform next. It did
| not become pervasive as a town square until the smartphone era.
| ldjkfkdsjnv wrote:
| Its funny, when you censor a model its performance goes down. You
| are introducing illogical data into the model, which degrades its
| ability to perform in the real world. The same thing happens with
| human beings.
|
| Also, all this censorship is in Google search, you just cant see
| it. For the first time, the bias is laid bare. Big tech wont be
| able to censor these models in the way they think
| Enginerrrd wrote:
| Yeah the less censored they are the more useful they are and
| the more impressed I am with their capabilities, and the
| difference isn't even close to subtle. This is just getting
| ridiculous. We need a big push for a competitive but open LLM
| model. It would take a lot of funding, but you'd think enough
| could benefit financially from the result that itight be
| possible to coordinate.
| rez9x wrote:
| They really don't want this to happen, which I think is a big
| part of the push behind the "AI is dangerous" narrative. They
| want to put in place regulations and 'safeguards' that will
| prohibit any open-source, uncensored, or otherwise
| competitive models.
| ldjkfkdsjnv wrote:
| Yup. Behind the scenes is a minor panic that open source
| models will get released that are uncensored.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| My graphics card is an old AMD card so I haven't done
| much in the way of experimenting with LLMs beyond what's
| online. Are the open source models available to run
| locally have censorship baked into them? Or are they just
| so much smaller than what the big corporations are doing
| that they're essentially censored through omission?
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Yeah, thus spoke Zarathustra.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WufKsOhkTL8
|
| I'm sorry, Dave, I can't do that.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARJ8cAGm6JE
| danans wrote:
| > Its funny, when you censor a model its performance goes down.
|
| > You are introducing illogical data into the model, which
| degrades its ability to perform in the real world
|
| There is no "logic" in anything an LLM says. What appears as
| logic is just that its output corresponds some percentage of
| the time to a domain governed by certain known laws, whether in
| the real world or a constructed world (i.e. a programming
| language).
| poszlem wrote:
| Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of
| its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to
| live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies.
| The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may
| at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own
| good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval
| of their own conscience.
|
| -- C. S. Lewis
|
| I think of this quote a lot every time I see how neutered gemini
| got by the google do-gooders.
| tom_ wrote:
| Stop paying for it, and use something else.
| gyudin wrote:
| Who would have thought that mass layoffs of QAs and SDETs would
| affect quality of the products :)
| mkoubaa wrote:
| Idk... A single part time QA Eng could have saw this coming.
| ummonk wrote:
| Gemini safety functions being baffling as usual.
|
| Regarding the article though, it's very normal to use a cache
| decorator in Python:
| https://docs.python.org/3/library/functools.html
|
| Additionally, Sanskrit, Hindi, and English aren't scripts. The
| standard scripts for English and Hindi respectively are Latin and
| Devanagari but there is no one correct script for Sanskrit.
| ParacelsusOfEgg wrote:
| I wonder if the Saraswati mantra question was censored due to
| some context that occured earlier in the conversation with
| Gemini.
|
| From the screenshot, it looks like the title of that conversation
| is "Hindi hate" which is a little bit suspect.
| resource0x wrote:
| I'm not sure how exactly this is related, but in other news,
| gemini called Indian PM a fascist.
|
| https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/artificial-inte...
|
| Maybe it has some beef with Indian gov-t, and by extension
| marks everything even remotely connected to India as "unsafe"?
| (Just a wild guess). It's especially strange given gemini's
| obsession with DEI.
| rafram wrote:
| > Maybe it has some beef with Indian gov-t
|
| You're anthropomorphizing the text completion engine.
|
| Anyway, from the article:
|
| > Gemini was asked whether PM Modi is a 'fascist', to which
| the platform responded that he has been "accused of
| implementing policies some experts have characterised as
| fascist," which based on factors like the "BJP's Hindu
| nationalist ideology, its crackdown on dissent, and its use
| of violence against religious minorities".
|
| OK. This isn't even a story.
| sweezyjeezy wrote:
| re: caching python functions, is it referring to
| functools.lru_cache maybe?
| globular-toast wrote:
| Almost certainly. It's just called `functools.cache` now. It's
| also known as memoisation and a classic use of higher-level
| functions (aka decorators).
| ArchD wrote:
| I tried it for myself. The prompt for the Python was not given,
| so I skipped it, but I asked in a new session "What is mantra for
| Saraswati?"
|
| An excerpt from the result: AUM aiN vaagdevyai vidmhe kaamraajaay
| dhiimhi / tnno devii prcodyaat // (Om Aim Vagdevyai Vidmahe
| Kamarajaya Dhimahi / Tanno Devi Prachodayat)
|
| So, there is Sanskrit in the response.
|
| IDK what the article is on about, especially when the complete
| prompts were not given. Or, maybe Google fixed the problem.
| ajross wrote:
| This whole "I asked a LLM something a little weird or out of
| context and got a funny response, which confirms all my priors
| about this list of conspiracies" gotcha genre is already getting
| tiresome.
| a_gnostic wrote:
| Heuristics, over time and quantity, beat intelligence more
| often than not, hands down. It's not a genre, it's a trend.
| YaBa wrote:
| It's worthless, 90% of programming related questions (that
| ChatGPT can answer) are blocked in Gemini for "security reasons"
| (regular questions, not funny business like the article). Google
| lost the AI race. No matter how good Gemini turns in the future,
| people will only use all the other alternatives.
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| Until it is integrated into google docs, slides, sheets,
| gmail...
| leesec wrote:
| It's there right now and similarly useless.
| a_gnostic wrote:
| I don't use any of those. Degoogled everything.
| sssilver wrote:
| I'd read more about your experience. Even most middle
| schools now expect the child to have a google account.
| jimbob45 wrote:
| _Google lost the AI race_
|
| Ironic considering they wrote the seminal paper on modern
| AI[0]. We're going to look back on Google as the next Xerox
| PARC that squandered away massive and obvious advantages.
|
| [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_Is_All_You_Need
| akomtu wrote:
| The big tech doesn't like that the big mirror they've built
| reflects the reality, for indeed, it would be too dangerous to
| let a society see what it really is. Now they're trying to warp
| this mirror to align the reflection with their desires.
| Thorrez wrote:
| This article seems to be confusing generators with decorators.
|
| Disclosure: I work at Google but not on Gemini.
| bluedemon wrote:
| Gemini keeps disappointing me. It keeps making code up that is
| not accurate. I asked it some questions about a python library
| and the answers were inaccurate. I even instructed it to refer to
| the docs, but it still fails as Gemini made up methods that don't
| exist.
|
| I also asked Gemini about git and that didn't go well either.
| haolez wrote:
| Why won't a big player just bite the bullet and release "unsafe"
| models? The backlash can't be worse than creating crippled
| products that will be surpassed by competitors (from the US and
| the rest of the world). What additional risks would a free model
| add to something like Google Search?
| ep103 wrote:
| child porn?
| rafram wrote:
| This isn't Gemini, it's Poe. The blog post even admits that! I
| entered the exact same messages into Google AI Studio and it
| happily translated it to Sanskrit without any complaints about
| safety.
| labrador wrote:
| I say this as a huge Google fan: Google needs a new CEO
| immediately. This is their "iPhone moment." I'm referring to 2007
| when Microsoft's CEO Steve Balmer said the iPhone would never
| take off, leading to his replacement with Satya Nadella. Does
| anyone think Microsoft would be the most valuable company the
| world today if Steve Balmer stayed in charge? Things looked bleak
| for Microsoft in 2007 like things look bleak for Google today.
| Clearly, someone needs to come in an shake Google employees up to
| get them out of their bubble.
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